Don't think that's debatable. That was his best position because he didn't have the defensive or build-up duties, and he was fantastic when playing there. The seasons when alongside Masherano, Alonso and Torres were great for him. Afterwards those players were individually broken up and Gerrard started having his open injury issues so his world class performances in that position didn't continue for long.
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
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Don't think that's debatable. That was his best position because he didn't have the defensive or build-up duties, and he was fantastic when playing there. The seasons when alongside Masherano, Alonso and Torres were great for him. Afterwards those players were individually broken up and Gerrard started having his open injury issues so his world class performances in that position didn't continue for long.
He's a great talent but the I've seen him completely disappear in games a lot this season. I suppose consistency will come with age, but he isn't as great yet as some paint him to be.
I feel like we're living in an era where exceptional talent is disappearing so we rush to overrate anyone capable of producing some magic. To be fair to him a lot of football legends where not as impressive in his age, some where even nowhere to be found at 20. Let's just accept that he's an excellent talent and now expect him to carry England to glory on his own.
I feel like we're living in an era where exceptional talent is disappearing so we rush to overrate anyone capable of producing some magic. To be fair to him a lot of football legends where not as impressive in his age, some where even nowhere to be found at 20. Let's just accept that he's an excellent talent and now expect him to carry England to glory on his own.
Nonsens. Unless you never saw Gerrard playing. It is ridiculous how players get reputation today without showing that worth. Social media and playstation kids.
What was your first clue?
Of course Palmer is not gonna compete for the same trophies as Jude, so it’s setting up a court of measurement that is just not realistic. Not a fair one imo.
Bellingham was great at Dortmund but the goals didnt flow like they did this year, so he’s basically been World Class for 1 season - I’d say Palmer has been at that level too. We all remember Fernandes fantastic season here, where he was everywhere and raised a mediocre team and Palmer has eclipsed Bruno’s great year if you measure it on pure stats. It’s really hard to argue Palmer’s season this year wasn’t all that.
Who knows, Bellingham’s season this year could just as well be a fluke. He too has only had one World Class season and then some really good ones for Dortmund (in a lesser league). Jude is younger too, so that also gives him some credit. Highly developed in a young age.
Yeah but you still used it as a means to criticise Bellingham's performance - which obviously wasn't very good - while holding up Gerrard as the pinnacle he would be lucky to emulate, when Gerrard was an unrepentant and habitual diver
I think it doesn't do Bellingham justice to just rate him based on goals, as he played much different roles for Dortmund and Real. Of course he will score more as a 10 (or more a 9.5) than as an 8 as he mostly played for Dortmund. For Dortmund he mostly was the driving force in their midfield, and I don't think it's coincidence that they bottled the league when he was injured for the final match...
Real didn't need him to play that role, not with Kroos organising the team, but they needed someone to score goals after Benzema left and he slotted right into that much different role. That's very impressive, but I don't think that I would rate the performances he showed in his Real season much higher than what he did at Dortmund. But it does give him a boost that he seemlessly integrated into the biggest club in the world. But it's just not a fluke for Bellingham, it could still be for Palmer.
I especially don't rate Bellingham's latest season higher than what he did at Dortmund because he dropped down a level in the later stages of the season (seems to be injury-related, but still that's a fact). Unlucky for England that you don't get first half of the season Bellingham, but second half.
You could also argue he doesn't offer what RM want/need in an 8 position. I don't think he will be playing deep at all next season.
I actually agree, but that doesn't change my point
In the sense that he got dominated physically and didn't seem up for the fight, not that diving in itself is the problem.
Well what do you think England need from an 8 that he will provide?I actually agree, but that doesn't change my point
I don't care. I actually would keep him playing as a 10 like Southgate does, but I would replace TAA (not a DM) and Foden (not a LW) in that team.
That said I'm still not sure about Bellingham/Kane playing together, but I don't follow England closely enough to give a solution to that.
He reminds me of Dele Alli. He's a great player but he is not as supremely talented on the ball as is often made out.
I think he’s gonna suffer the same issues as Foden in this team. He’s used to playing with kroos and modric in midfield behind him, flanked by Vinicius junior.
Foden I’m not even gonna list the quality surrounding him in midfield.
I’m sure they’re both capable of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and winning us games, but will probably get in one another’s way in trying to do so.
I’d honestly try Foden on the right so he can cut in with walker kn the overlap, just can arrive late in the box for any balls that come in and I’m sure we can get Saka on the left as a traditional winger to get balls into the box. This solves the issue of all of them cutting in and getting in one another’s way.
It also gives Trent the platform to use his greatest attribute which is pinging balls out to wide players (Saka on the right, walker on the overlap) what’s the point in having Trent in there if he can’t even use his greatest asset? He can’t dictate tempo, gets caught on the ball too often cos nobody is in space for him to pick out with his vision and passing.
Unfortunately we just don’t have a #6 to mop up after him. Rice will have to fill in there I’m afraid, he’s done it before and imo was pretty solid last night, especially the first half.
Gueyhe was actually my motm, feel much more confident about our defence having seen him last night, he didn’t put a foot wrong (apart from once when he got back and made a 10/10 block to make up for it)
Gordon needs a runout, we need players who’ll stretch the play and hug the touchling, Eze looked like he had a bit of stage fright and also likes to cut in so don’t see why he came in over Gordon and he just created the same issue as Foden out on the left. No width with trippier overlapping on his weak foot, again wanting to cut inside.
Or put Bowen on the left, keep Saka on the right.
Obviously I’m biased but would like to see mainoo get a proper run out instead of Trent. shame we didn’t beat Denmark because we coulda rotated I think
Foden I’m not even gonna list the quality surrounding him in midfield.
I’m sure they’re both capable of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and winning us games, but will probably get in one another’s way in trying to do so.
I’d honestly try Foden on the right so he can cut in with walker kn the overlap, just can arrive late in the box for any balls that come in and I’m sure we can get Saka on the left as a traditional winger to get balls into the box. This solves the issue of all of them cutting in and getting in one another’s way.
It also gives Trent the platform to use his greatest attribute which is pinging balls out to wide players (Saka on the right, walker on the overlap) what’s the point in having Trent in there if he can’t even use his greatest asset? He can’t dictate tempo, gets caught on the ball too often cos nobody is in space for him to pick out with his vision and passing.
Unfortunately we just don’t have a #6 to mop up after him. Rice will have to fill in there I’m afraid, he’s done it before and imo was pretty solid last night, especially the first half.
Gueyhe was actually my motm, feel much more confident about our defence having seen him last night, he didn’t put a foot wrong (apart from once when he got back and made a 10/10 block to make up for it)
Gordon needs a runout, we need players who’ll stretch the play and hug the touchling, Eze looked like he had a bit of stage fright and also likes to cut in so don’t see why he came in over Gordon and he just created the same issue as Foden out on the left. No width with trippier overlapping on his weak foot, again wanting to cut inside.
Or put Bowen on the left, keep Saka on the right.
Obviously I’m biased but would like to see mainoo get a proper run out instead of Trent. shame we didn’t beat Denmark because we coulda rotated I think
He's not quite Modric but check his early season highlights
He's been majorly banged up since February and it has affected his agility and foot work a lot. Used to glide past people for fun, genuinely looked like a Zidane regen at times out there
I think you need to ditch 1 of them.
And the one that needs to be ditched is clearly Foden. I've seen Bellingham play well at the World Cup and at the Euros. I've seen him play badly for England as well but I've seen good stuff. I don't recall a single good Foden England game. Maybe I'm forgetting one but I definitely don't remember anything at a tournament.
EDIT: I thought you were picking between Foden and Bellingham but is it more Kane and Bellingham?
No I mean kane or Bellingham, benching foden won't help much.
I'd agree with this. Gerrard's ending at Liverpool and England career has really made some he wasn't the player he was. At his best, he was fecking good
Think he's been run into the ground this season. Surely a rest will do him a world of good.
He's an upgraded Fellaini
He has 42 appearances for Real Madrid this season, which in total added up to 3,645 minutes. That isn't really that much. Foden and Rice both have about 600 more minutes, for example.
Nowhere near Ronaldo or Messi.
But interesting that you rate Gerrard on their level. How come?
No white text?
More like a on fire Pogba.
He's a lot younger than both of them, not far off being a teen. There's a reason you're not supposed to overplay youngsters, look at Pedri (also a great talent) continually falling to bits after being driven into the ground by Barca.
Yeah, I don't buy it. Bellingham is physically mature. Him being "run into the ground" this season is no excuse for his performance yesterday, because it simply hasn't happened. He has played a normal amount of football throughout the season, and should be as fresh as every other player in this tournament.
Guess you missed the part where he was playing the last 8 games of the season in the League/CL on injections then?
https://www.gbnews.com/sport/football/real-madrid-jude-bellingham-injection-bayern-munich
He also played 4 games in December whilst also on painkillers for his shoulder dislocation.
Multiple reports that he needs shoulder surgery and knee surgery. Apparently could be out for 3 months at start of season.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomsanderson/2024/06/19/real-madrid-changes-mind-on-bellingham-surgery/
I stand corrected, that source is ironclad. GB News quoting the Daily Mail. Doesn't get more reliable than that.
Sorry but it's everywhere? Pretty common knowledge, I just picked top result on google
How about Forbes in the edit I made?
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/wo...ctions/blt9cd107076a7695ad#csbd2d891598c51cdc
And before you comment that "Yes, COPE, great source," it was Miguel Angel Diaz who broke the news, who is an A tier source for Real Madrid.
It’s not even really the point. I object to the idea that he’s been “run into the ground” this season, as an excuse for the stinker he put in yesterday. He’s played a normal amount of football this season, and we’re three weeks away from the CL final now.
If he’s injured that’s a different story, but that doesn’t seem to be the case either.
Playing the minutes he's played whilst healthy is verryyy different to accumulating the minutes he has whilst nursing an injury.
The general assessment of him seems to fluctuate wildly which somewhat natural considering how rapid his rise has been and something which h I haven't been exempt from either as I wildly under rated him previously.
He has a very high floor, is tenacious and has great a mentality, is a leader and generally speaking is pretty on the ball and relatively hard to disposses , has great balance, and is physically dominant all great assets to have and of use to any top team on the planet, he seems perfectly capable of being a mainstay for a top side for many years to come.
Now is he mercurial talent capable of elevating his beyond their limit when the biggest stage demands it, To be the very best player in the world? Probably not and I don't think there's any indicated he'll turn out to be one.
He has a very high floor, is tenacious and has great a mentality, is a leader and generally speaking is pretty on the ball and relatively hard to disposses , has great balance, and is physically dominant all great assets to have and of use to any top team on the planet, he seems perfectly capable of being a mainstay for a top side for many years to come.
Now is he mercurial talent capable of elevating his beyond their limit when the biggest stage demands it, To be the very best player in the world? Probably not and I don't think there's any indicated he'll turn out to be one.
He was pretty much anonymous in the CL knockouts though. Vinicius is the biggest reason they won another CL title. And like it or not, if you’re being tipped as favourite for the Ballon D’Or then you’ll be held to the same standards as Ballon D’Or winners, and that’ll include looking at how they perform in those really big sink or swim knockout games.
Anyway he’s really the only player who’s escaped criticism for yesterday so he’s getting preferential treatment again.
No, I meant he had the elegance and aesthetic of Zidane
When he starts turning up in the big CL games then I think you can maybe say that.
And I’m saying it was more akin to Pogba!