I mean he is 20, give him time to develop his game a bit more. I also think he got very lucky with Madrid being striker less this season BUT he took the luck and run with it in a way no one expected.
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
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I mean he is 20, give him time to develop his game a bit more. I also think he got very lucky with Madrid being striker less this season BUT he took the luck and run with it in a way no one expected.
For a 20 year old he's fantastic. But the fact that he's favourite to win the Balon D'or this year is ridiculous. He's not the best player in the world. Nowhere near it.
Like others have said he does a vanishing act when things aren't going well.
Like others have said he does a vanishing act when things aren't going well.
Goals and assists.
Bellingham has better stats? There’s genuinely zero argument to make that champions league and title winning Bellingham is less effective than Cole fecking palmer. Don’t get me wrong Palmer should get some opportunities, but he isn’t that special and won’t make the difference in England winning a tournament, whereas Jude can.
Last season Bellingham 23 goals and 13 assists. Palmer had 27 goals and 15 assists.
As a non-English fan, it seems a lot of England fans are just ridiculous in criticising him. He's had a near perfect season and if he doesn't score or assist, he should be dropped or is being compared to McTominay. He's a brilliant player, end of.
Hate to say it, but are we ignoring that Palmer scored half of his goals form penalties. Are we also ignoring that Palmer is a wide forward who is only in the team for that purpose while Bellingham brings far far more to a team. It’s a non contest to be honest and frankly I’m surprise by this opinion from you because you’re a sensible poster!
It's a bit baffling that the criticism being levelled at him here is "he's never going to be as good as Zidane or Iniesta"... Erm ok, we're comparing a 20 year old to players who are listed in discussions as the best midfielders of all time, as if that's some kind of slight. So what if he's not going to be as good as Zidane?
He's 20 and starts for a double winning Real Madrid. He could be 5/6/7 years of development away from his actual prime.
He's 20 and starts for a double winning Real Madrid. He could be 5/6/7 years of development away from his actual prime.
Because he is. Because he's had persistent injury issues, his body hasn't been healthy in months and he desperately needed a real break 3 months ago - except we couldn't stop him then and England can't and won't stop him now.
Did you mean knockout stages?
Because he was the best player of the group stages actually
It's fine if you disagree, I just think as an actual 10 Palmer is a better/more effective player. Think Bellingham's numbers will drop a lot now Madrid has Mbappe.
I don't know what type of player Bellingham really is honestly. He played a lot as a forward last season due to Madrid having not much there and was good but he's not a striker. I don't think he's a 10 or a 6 either. He's got more in common with an 8 but I don't think he's particularly 'creative' or has a tremendous amount of guile. I've seen people say Lampard in here but I think he's more like Gerrard, just a pretty good all round athlete.
Gerrard, famously, was a world class attacking midfielder btw, playing behind Fernando Torres
Just like Bellingham
Just like Bellingham
Debateable
Big talent. No doubt. Have lot to do to be considered top player. Some signs are not good but if he put down serious hard work he might one day come close to players on a real top level.
I think there's two things people should keep in mind. First is that he's currently playing under Southgate who's sucking the talent and excitement out of everyone. Second thing is, we've seen great talents over the years fail under the pressure of playing at Real Madrid, and Jude - as a teenager - came in, immediately became one of their best players and player of the season(?) and was a big reason as to why they won the double. A player in their prime doesn't do that without being a special talent; never mind a teenager in their debut season there.
It's hard to judge any of the English players this tournament because, as I said, Southgate is actively hampering them, but his club form is there for everyone to see, and I think you should always judge a player on their club form rather than their international form anyway.
Unless your definition of world class attacking midfielder of the time is Kaka - in which case there was precisely 1 around - then no, it's not.
Gerrard wasn't on the level of Kaka, a level below, just like he was a level below world-class.
Gerrard was ofcourse top, top player. World class. Bellingham is nowhere near what Gerrard was.
I think he's a great player . I'll sound like a mad man , but I think for England he should play kanes 9 and 10 role . I think he's got to play moreso than Kane has to .
I'm sure he can be a better Kai havertz and Kane can be a better fullkrug who comes on for him .
I'm sure he can be a better Kai havertz and Kane can be a better fullkrug who comes on for him .
He should’ve been pushed back into Trent’s position and Watkins brought on to join Kane up front - horrendous management from Southgate.
By the end of the Euros every player in the tournament would have been called overrated.
Happens all the time, Ronaldo and Messi have destroyed expectations for the next generations, the greats before them weren’t great all the time. I can also add Xavi, Modric and Kroos to this list because apparently it’s a bad thing to be a different type of No.8 or CM nowadays. The lad is one of the few players in the world that can do everything on the pitch to a pretty good level. You don’t get into Real Madrid’s team and start if you aren’t one of the very best.
Then again I recall after Mbappe’s shocker in the last Euros there was a lot of rubbish written about him on here too.
Happens all the time, Ronaldo and Messi have destroyed expectations for the next generations, the greats before them weren’t great all the time. I can also add Xavi, Modric and Kroos to this list because apparently it’s a bad thing to be a different type of No.8 or CM nowadays. The lad is one of the few players in the world that can do everything on the pitch to a pretty good level. You don’t get into Real Madrid’s team and start if you aren’t one of the very best.
Then again I recall after Mbappe’s shocker in the last Euros there was a lot of rubbish written about him on here too.
This is what happens when a player gets over-hyped, people will naturally start comparing to the best.
Rio, with a straight face, asked Fabregas if he has played with a player as good as Bellingham... The same Fabregas that played alongside some of the all time greats in Arsenal, Chelsea, Barca and Spain.
He is a very good player who hasn't reached his ceiling. Hopefully everyone calms down and lets him develop. Don't need to burden him with comparisons to the GOATs.
It's an absolute tragedy to even consider him as Ballon D'Or. It brings shame to the past recipients like Messi and Ronaldo. He is not even the best player this season in the RM team.
“Hahah”? A bit premature entering a debate like that, no?
Bellingham has won titles with a much stronger team in Real Madrid but his stats with goals+assists are much similar to Palmer this season if you take away Palmer’s penalty goals.
Foden and Palmer were Premier League’s best players this season. Not far fetched to mention Palmer along the same lines of Bellingham. And Palmer did it in a better league. Not saying Palmer’s better, but your attitude towards a comparison really is over the top. No way Palmer would have had such an anonymous game like Jude yesterday.
League stats this year:
Bellingham: 19 goals, 6 assists (28 games)
Cole Palmer: 13 non penalty goals, 11 assists. (33 games).
So it’s a goal involvement of 25 for Jude vs 24 for Palmer in a better league with 5 games more and for a worse team by miles.
Apologies starting it like that was a sign I’d had too many beers last night!
I just currently find it a complete non starter. Palmer had a good season, but I’m not that convinced he’s gonna be a top player. In comparison Bellingham is performing for the biggest club in the world under immense pressure and to be honest the eye test of watching both players so far just shows me he’s miles ahead currently. For me I’d like to see palmer prove he’s not a one season wonder and also prove he can play for a better team than a middling chelsea before he’s considered some brilliant player.
Also it’s strange people are forgetting that Bellingham was top class as Dortmund for 2 seasons as well, and very good for England in Qatar.
I like Palmer, he’s a quality player but it’s almost like he’s being hyped at this point just because he hasn’t seen the pitch at all to give people a chance to see how he is for England. Judging anyone outside of the defenders in this setup is stupid, it’s a complete misprofiling of so many players and how they work together.
Spot on.
Cheers for the apology. Nice to see someone not just yelling even more to make up for it, and having a debate as this forum should be for.
As someone who's been watching Palmer all season, I'd say Palmer is no fluke at all. All creativity has started with him in an incoherent Chelsea team this year. So the eye-test for me really speaks in favor of Palmer being able to sustain his level for a long time if he can do it under this year's (bad) circumstances at Chelsea. We probably disagree, but I'd say it's much easier for Jude to perform with such an immense midfield behind him and two fantastic strikers/wingers next to him. Palmer has had the joy of playing first with an over-the-hill Sterling, then various players coming in and out of the squad like Mudryk, Jackson, Nkunku, Madueke. Decent players, but imagine the assists Palmer would have had if he had Real Madrid's team to finish his creations or Kroos, Camavinga, Tchoaumeni or Modric to give him the ball a lot.
Fair enough and I do think Palmer is a good player, but it’s still so early with him. He definitely needs to prove he can sustain this level and also prove he can be decisive In big moments. And by that I don’t just mean the odd goal agaisnt a rival I mean helping his team to compete for trophies. The bar at Chelsea this season was just so incredibly low, by comparison Bellingham was one of the spearhead factors behind Real winning the league and champions league, it doesn’t get better than that.
I’d also add I think you’re underplaying Jude’s impact at Birmingham and then Dortmund too, there’s a reason he’s been so highly sought after ever since he emerged, he’s a top tier talent.
Bellingham is 20 years old and already had a full season playing better than Gerrard ever has
On the plus side Southgate will have to make changes now! If he doesn’t he will get crucified, and we have come out of this fairly unscathed (4 points is a decent return).
He will hopefully now play midfielders in midfield and shake up the front 4!
He will hopefully now play midfielders in midfield and shake up the front 4!
Well, obviously.
He's already matched Ronaldo's best performances for Real comfortably and has prime Messi performances in his sights for next season.
Without being the primary penalty or free kick taker he's scored more in a season than Gerrard ever did. Or Scholes for that matter!
And?
It's impressive
So many salty tears. He is good player when he is good coached, same as Foden.
Our irelevancy broke so many fans.
They are both class act. I wish that my country have so many talents.
Our irelevancy broke so many fans.
They are both class act. I wish that my country have so many talents.
He's obviously scored an impressive amount of goals and he's had a mint season, but he's at the very start of his career and we're hardly talking bad players, rather two of the finest English midfielders in recent history. Maintaining a similar level as those two over a similar period of years would be a pretty amazing career. Not sure why so many are getting ahead of themselves.
When that's said, he's hardly being utilized well by Southgate, but i thought his overall attitude was poor against Denmark. Puffing his chest only to constantly collapse to the ground in an attempt to con the referee into giving a freekick. He was completely nullified physically, just didn't look like he was up for it.
All the hype actually has the opposite effect on me. It’s like they’re shoving it in your face “Look how good he is! Such a mature lad” over and over again and when I watch him play he is just decent.
One thing I like about him is that he seems fearless. But I don’t believe in the hype until I’ve seen it with my own eyes, talk about winning the Ballon D’or…. He has a long career ahead of him and can turn out to be a a fantastic player but the hype is a bit excessive.
One thing I like about him is that he seems fearless. But I don’t believe in the hype until I’ve seen it with my own eyes, talk about winning the Ballon D’or…. He has a long career ahead of him and can turn out to be a a fantastic player but the hype is a bit excessive.
Dude is regular in Real Madrid machine, just won La Liga and CL but he needs your approval? Chair King
Gerrard never dived, yeah?
We'll see how his career goes but it's not like either of them were constantly world class for the national side.
Gerrard never dived, yeah?
We'll see how his career goes but it's not like either of them were constantly world class for the national side.
Wasn't my point.