Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

GlasgowCeltic said:
to be fair he’s obviously an excellent player but the media are laying it on so thick it’s hard not to want to nitpick his performances, BBC Sport literally tweeted a Zidane vs Bellingham poll yesterday
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He was voted La Liga Player of the Year. Has any other player from England been voted player of the year in Spain?

All that by the age of 20 ... it is incredible.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c0vvll72zpyo

Bellingham voted La Liga Player of the Year


Bellingham edged out team-mate Vinicius Jr, Antoine Griezmann (Atletico Madrid), Artem Dovbyk (Girona) and Robert Lewandowski (Barcelona) in votes cast by fans, club captains and a panel of experts.

He also won the 2022-23 Bundesliga Player of the Season playing for Dortmund before moving to Real for an initial 103m euros (£88.5m).
 
Nothing to see here. It's as usual. English talent will be hyped up like not other. Joe Cole was the English Maradona. Sancho (1st stint at Dortmund) was the best player outside Messi and Ronaldo. Dele Ali and all.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Nothing to see here. It's as usual. English talent will be hyped up like not other. Joe Cole was the English Maradona. Sancho (1st stint at Dortmund) was the best player outside Messi and Ronaldo. Dele Ali and all.
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Only, nobody hyped them up to that at all. You've just made that up.
 
Only in England would a player be hyped up to a meteoric extent by the media and then brought down by rival fans for no rational reason, beyond a deeply repressed resignation that we would never play for their club.

Bellingham is a world class player, perhaps not in the same vein as Messi and Ronaldo but he is nonetheless an amazing talent considering his age.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Nothing to see here. It's as usual. English talent will be hyped up like not other. Joe Cole was the English Maradona. Sancho (1st stint at Dortmund) was the best player outside Messi and Ronaldo. Dele Ali and all.
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You have to be a little unwell up top and/or deeply hateful of England to pretend we're not one of the best nations in the world right now for creating promising young talents. It's ok to be bitter and jealous, but just own it :smirk:
 
One more thing I have noticed is, though he’s just 20 he always looks shot, gasping for air, breathing heavily, holding his back/waist/hands on knees. Is it just me or is it because he works very hard in every match?
 
Judas said:
You have to be a little unwell up top and/or deeply hateful of England to pretend we're not one of the best nations in the world right now for creating promising young talents. It's ok to be bitter and jealous, but just own it :smirk:
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Top talent yes but the way the media hype up as if Bellingham is already a certain for the Ballon d'Or . Yesterday he certainly not showing any signs of it at all. In fact, in the CL knock out phases, everytime I watch RM, Vinicius was the better player but the hype of Bellingham is much more in the medias.
 
I think it's slightly unfair to think Bellingham is just benefitting from the standard English hope hype. The Spanish press are notoriously hard on players, as is the Madrid crowd. He's won them over.

That being said I think Bellingham is not the all rounder that's often billed. He has a good standard of basic attributes. However, what he excels at is arriving late into the box and winning games with goals.

He reminds me a bit of Gerrard. Because of his size and physicality he's seen as a midfielder and he's a good #8. However, he excels as the most free of a midfield three. Ancelotti has seen that and set an example for Southgate to follow.

I see Bellingham as much as a second striker as anything else. In games like the Madrid Vs Dortmund final, where Madrid aren't dominant, I don't think you can expect very much.

Bellingham's never going to play like Kroos or Modric. It makes no sense to be looking for him to get on the ball and try to dominate proceedings. He's a move ender not a move starter. To me, expecting to see lots of him in a game like what we've just seen at Wembley is like expecting Hojlund to be visible when he gets no service.
 
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We can paw his season all day but in the end 23 goals and 12 assists in 41 games. The standard by which he will be judged
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Top talent yes but the way the media hype up as if Bellingham is already a certain for the Ballon d'Or . Yesterday he certainly not showing any signs of it at all. In fact, in the CL knock out phases, everytime I watch RM, Vinicius was the better player but the hype of Bellingham is much more in the medias.
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English 20 year old playing for one of the biggest sides in the world in a CL final, I just think its expected and understandable media hype.
 
kaku06 said:
One more thing I have noticed is, though he’s just 20 he always looks shot, gasping for air, breathing heavily, holding his back/waist/hands on knees. Is it just me or is it because he works very hard in every match?
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He didn't look like that at all in the first half of the season. It's quite clear he's feeling the effects of the initial output, I think it also shows how hard it is to cover so many positions per game and why players that do that are often reined in by their managers.

He's been flagging at around 65min for a while and from there, it's more like him chugging along than gliding as he was earlier in the season - he wasn't being compared to Zidane by some for looking how has for a while now; it's because there was a certain grace to his movement and actions, which hasn't been seen in a while.

I think the age that he is is being forgotten about too readily in this thread. At the age that he is, he shouldn't be playing so many games in midfield, but because of his talent and effectiveness, he's treated as a finished article 25yr old in his physical prime, when the reality is that he's nowhere near it, and only man-children are at such an age - he can't paradoxically be called a ballon D'Or contender and at the same time be said to be physically not able to maintain an adult's output, right? Despite it being pretty clear he's running on fumes compared to his same self five months ago.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Google search. Thanks
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Done it for both when you first said it. Only comment regarding Maradonna was someone ironically commenting it on a Chelsea forum on page 9 of google search from 2009.

Regarding Sancho, absolutely nothing. Zilch. The closest thing was Bundesliga.com doing a piece saying Mbappe and Sancho could be next generations greats that match a rivalry like Messi-Ronaldo.

You made it up. Own up to it.
 
It will be interesting to see his future position with the arrival of Mbappe and the departure of Kroos. I wonder how they will set up their team and who they might buy
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I get the feeling some people don't watch La Liga.

Regarding the bolded, that's one of the most ridiculous statements about this season I've ever heard.

He literallly carried the team for about half the season.
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It's called a honeymoon period. The second half of the season was big drop off. Truth be told, he lacks a single attribute to be world class. Care to name one? All I see are him passing sideways and back.
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
I've seen 90% negative reviews of a 20 year old who just won La Liga and Champions League, was almost top scorer in La Liga from midfield, scored late winners in both classicos, key assist in the final tonight, has played the with the grace of Zidane at times. I've heard some saying he shouldn't start with England. This place can be feckin bonkers at times.
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Even in those classico matches that he scored late goals, he was otherwise very average.
Stadjer said:
That is no shame though. Vinicius only has Mbappe who is at his level and Mbappe wins that discussion on reputation and not just on quality on the pitch. Vinicius is disliked because of his diving and manners on the pitch. Eventhough i find it fair he does respond to the (racist) abuse he often receives.

It always suprises me when Vinicius is not mentioned in Ballon D'or conversations. Vinicius is one of the best in the world. Vinicius is a better player than Bellingham but Bellingham is still one of the better midfielders in the world.
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No he isn't.
 
He's had a magnificent season overall but he was absolutely terrible last night and I'm not sure we can use fitness or tiredness as an excuse. It wasn't a case of being off the pace but he was being bullied, poor touches, and a bit of the old diving malarkey.
 
frostbite said:
He was voted La Liga Player of the Year. Has any other player from England been voted player of the year in Spain?

All that by the age of 20 ... it is incredible.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c0vvll72zpyo

Bellingham voted La Liga Player of the Year


Bellingham edged out team-mate Vinicius Jr, Antoine Griezmann (Atletico Madrid), Artem Dovbyk (Girona) and Robert Lewandowski (Barcelona) in votes cast by fans, club captains and a panel of experts.

He also won the 2022-23 Bundesliga Player of the Season playing for Dortmund before moving to Real for an initial 103m euros (£88.5m).
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From what I've seen, he's been great. What I found particularly impressive is that he managed so many scorers despite being very mature and disciplined in possession. To illustrate that, he had 88% passing accuracy despite his attacking oriented play and playing many progressive passes. That was a huge improvement on his previous season for Dortmund and one of my biggest concerns about him. I think he entered a bad run of form towards the end of the season but overall, his performances have been excellent.

His Bundesliga Player of the Season was a joke, though. I don't even think he was Dortmund's best player. As good as he is, I think it is true that he is a bit overhyped.
 
Excellent first half of the season, and very average 2nd half of it. Was very average to non existent in the CL final also.

I don't think Foden should be moved to the left wing in order to play Jude as the offensive midfielder for the English team going by the season they've both had. They should both be played centrally in a 3-2-4-1 type of formation IMO.
 
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Worryingly for England this summer he looks way out of form at the end of the season. Was fairly non existent last night. Shame his early season form has deserted him

Foden also looked spent in the cup final against Utd.

The great English hopes are all knackered come the end of the season. Too many games?
 
Zehner said:
From what I've seen, he's been great. What I found particularly impressive is that he managed so many scorers despite being very mature and disciplined in possession. To illustrate that, he had 88% passing accuracy despite his attacking oriented play and playing many progressive passes. That was a huge improvement on his previous season for Dortmund and one of my biggest concerns about him. I think he entered a bad run of form towards the end of the season but overall, his performances have been excellent.

His Bundesliga Player of the Season was a joke, though. I don't even think he was Dortmund's best player. As good as he is, I think it is true that he is a bit overhyped.
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It's easy to have a high passing accuracy if all you do is pass sideways and backwards.
 
kaku06 said:
One more thing I have noticed is, though he’s just 20 he always looks shot, gasping for air, breathing heavily, holding his back/waist/hands on knees. Is it just me or is it because he works very hard in every match?
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He looks older than 20. His fitness will improve in the next few years if managed correctly
 
Alpha 1 said:
It's easy to have a high passing accuracy if all you do is pass sideways and backwards.
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But he's not just playing sideway and backwards passes. To back that up with stats: 7.22 progressive passes per game (best 4% among attacking midfielders) and 5.18 passes into the final third (best 4%). He may not be amongst the best in the world at that but he is elite. And elite ball retention and progression combined with world class scoring makes for a pretty damn good player.
 
Juicy Juiced said:
Why is cafe hating so much? Beacuse he snubbed us or irish/scotish fans?
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My guess is:
- because he snubbed us
- some people Think he is being overhyped by the English press
- he has been poor the last few cl games and this might be a lot of people's first chances to see him this season beyond England games
- he can be a bit Bruno like in his demeanour

His form has definitely tailed off but the idea he is just average is stupid. I am concerned that England's tactics have placed him as our focal point at the expense of foden and if he is out of form we will struggle
 
Zehner said:
But he's not just playing sideway and backwards passes. To back that up with stats: 7.22 progressive passes per game (best 4% among attacking midfielders) and 5.18 passes into the final third (best 4%). He may not be amongst the best in the world at that but he is elite. And elite ball retention and progression combined with world class scoring makes for a pretty damn good player.
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Stats can be deceptive, my eyes suggest otherwise. He can be passing the ball 2 yards forward and it will be called a progressive pass.

It's not that I'm hating on him, I just don't see where the hype comes from. Sorry I simply don't see anything in his game. I watched the elclassicos where he scored but was really anonymous otherwise. I watched him in the ucl; same thing. He isn't a great passer, he doesn't dictate games, he doesn't make powerful runs from deep, he isn't great technically, he doesn't win possession consistently, he isnt creative, he doesnt dribble. He scored goals in the first half of the season, even that dried up. That's it. Where does the world class/ elite tag come from? Is it because he is English or he speaks well?


Again. Not hating, just baffled.
 
Matt851 said:
My guess is:
- because he snubbed us
- some people Think he is being overhyped by the English press
- he has been poor the last few cl games and this might be a lot of people's first chances to see him this season beyond England games
- he can be a bit Bruno like in his demeanour

His form has definitely tailed off but the idea he is just average is stupid. I am concerned that England's tactics have placed him as our focal point at the expense of foden and if he is out of form we will struggle
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What it also provides is a lure for the opposition.

If Plan A is to go through Bellingham, they have to have a plan to stop that from happening, which pushes players towards his position. He is too good to ignore, unless Southgate lets the opposition ignore him.

What he has shown at Madrid is that his movement off the ball is exceptional, his composure and vision lets him find team mates and finish shots even when swarmed, he can head the ball, he can make late runs, he can best the GK 1v1 and he is not fazed by being covered by 2-3 players. At one point in the season he was swarmed by 3 players all covering and trying to tackle him, and the boy just lifted the ball casually to the opposite flank as if they weren't there. You can not ignore that as an opposition manager.

In the 10 position most teams will want to put double cover on him - which opens up space on the wings for Foden to operate as a playmaker, gives room for swapping with Foden to open up more space for him or forces a centreback to man mark to cover Bellinghams runs, easing the pressure off Kane. In the unlikely event that they can cover Foden, a roaming Bellingham and Kane, it opens up space for Rice/Mainoo.

It doesn't actually matter that Bellingham is a bit "off form", if the opposition ignores him he has plenty of quality to make them suffer, which makes him an important player and one that definitely should be a centerpiece of the tactical plan. No other England player offers that level of "concern" for the opposition.

Whether Southgate will put him in 10 is another issue entirely. He will, regardless of position, force the opposition into tough tactical choices that could open up space for other players.
 
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Matt851 said:
My guess is:
- because he snubbed us
- some people Think he is being overhyped by the English press
- he has been poor the last few cl games and this might be a lot of people's first chances to see him this season beyond England games
- he can be a bit Bruno like in his demeanour

His form has definitely tailed off but the idea he is just average is stupid. I am concerned that England's tactics have placed him as our focal point at the expense of foden and if he is out of form we will struggle
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Good post. I always thought the Zidane comparisons were silly but he's no Dele Alli either. He's a great allround player, jack of all trades master of none, that has a maturity way beyond his years.
He's a bit arrogant and like you say, his demeanour is a bit like Bruno's. You don't mind if he's one of yours but dislike it immensely if you're playing against him.
 
Alpha 1 said:
Stats can be deceptive, my eyes suggest otherwise. He can be passing the ball 2 yards forward and it will be called a progressive pass.

It's not that I'm hating on him, I just don't see where the hype comes from. Sorry I simply don't see anything in his game. I watched the elclassicos where he scored but was really anonymous otherwise. I watched him in the ucl; same thing. He isn't a great passer, he doesn't dictate games, he doesn't make powerful runs from deep, he isn't great technically, he doesn't win possession consistently, he isnt creative, he doesnt dribble. He scored goals in the first half of the season, even that dried up. That's it. Where does the world class/ elite tag come from? Is it because he is English or he speaks well?


Again. Not hating, just baffled.
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Ancelotti said Bellingham was asked to play in a deeper, more defensive role after the 3-1 Atletico defeat at the end of September.
 
I like him his father played for a team near where I come from quite a decent non league player there is a mural of Jude in the town centre he’s claimed has one of their own
 
kaku06 said:
One more thing I have noticed is, though he’s just 20 he always looks shot, gasping for air, breathing heavily, holding his back/waist/hands on knees. Is it just me or is it because he works very hard in every match?
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He's acclimatising.
 
Alpha 1 said:
Stats can be deceptive, my eyes suggest otherwise. He can be passing the ball 2 yards forward and it will be called a progressive pass.

It's not that I'm hating on him, I just don't see where the hype comes from. Sorry I simply don't see anything in his game. I watched the elclassicos where he scored but was really anonymous otherwise. I watched him in the ucl; same thing. He isn't a great passer, he doesn't dictate games, he doesn't make powerful runs from deep, he isn't great technically, he doesn't win possession consistently, he isnt creative, he doesnt dribble. He scored goals in the first half of the season, even that dried up. That's it. Where does the world class/ elite tag come from? Is it because he is English or he speaks well?


Again. Not hating, just baffled.
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I mentioned a couple of posts before, I think he's a bit overhyped as well. There are few disciplines in which you could argue that he is the best in the world though I do think you're selling him short a bit. He might not be Kevin de Bruyne but he has great passing range, accuracy and vision with both feet. He's not an Iniesta type of dribbler but he has moments of sheer brillance. He's not a finisher like Gerrard or Lampard but he has a great shot in him. He's no Kante against the ball but he wins many duels, intercepts passes and has high possession wins. And his box presence is similar to Michael Ballack, IMO. Overall a very good player but to me not in the Ballon d'Or category either as of now.
 
Zehner said:
I mentioned a couple of posts before, I think he's a bit overhyped as well. There are few disciplines in which you could argue that he is the best in the world though I do think you're selling him short a bit. He might not be Kevin de Bruyne but he has great passing range, accuracy and vision with both feet. He's not an Iniesta type of dribbler but he has moments of sheer brillance. He's not a finisher like Gerrard or Lampard but he has a great shot in him. He's no Kante against the ball but he wins many duels, intercepts passes and has high possession wins. And his box presence is similar to Michael Ballack, IMO. Overall a very good player but to me not in the Ballon d'Or category either as of now.
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I've not checked Lampard's stats but he definitely scored more than Scholes or Gerrard ever did in a season this year.

There is a risk of under playing how good he is because hype went too far too early in the first half of the season
 
kaku06 said:
One more thing I have noticed is, though he’s just 20 he always looks shot, gasping for air, breathing heavily, holding his back/waist/hands on knees. Is it just me or is it because he works very hard in every match?
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As BBC football reported he has play 18,000 minutes this season. At the same age Beckham and Lampard had played 6,000.

He's probably running on fumes.
 
dinostar77 said:
As BBC football reported he has play 18,000 minutes this season. At the same age Beckham and Lampard had played 6,000.

He's probably running on fumes.
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https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5514538/2024/05/27/football-calendar-congestion-injuries/

The modern era threatens to drain the batteries of emerging talent over time. FIFPro’s numbers, detailed in their Workload Report for 2022-23, say Jude Bellingham had played 14,445 minutes of senior football before his 20th birthday. Wayne Rooney, another English prodigy from an earlier era, clocked only 10,989.

His body will betray him soon enough.
 
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