Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

[wildflower2007]

He simply lacks the qualities of a great midfielder. He looks lile another overhyped English player like those from the "golden generation"

As for Mainoo, it is early days but technically he is easily better.

How is he world class? This is the overhying I'm talking about.

I was using the phrase 'world class' to highlight the level most people are predicting he will hit but more importantly, the fact people like to knock people down. I'm not overhyping anything, whether he is world class is another debate.

But what I would say is that he's 20 and already playing for the biggest club in the world, winning trophies in the heart of their midfield. If that's not heading for world class then I don't know what is.
Any other player you could mention, like KDB for example, he's already beaten to a CL win.

Or are you saying he's not world class because Madrid only buy mediocre players like Mbappe?

 

[romufc]

He is clearly a top player to start for Madrid at his age, its the media and his fans are going over the top, with Ballon Dor claims.

I also dont like the way he spoke at the end saying people didnt believe him etc... the same player who had a shirt retired at the age of 16... give it a rest.

 

[Oranges038]

He simply lacks the qualities of a great midfielder. He looks lile another overhyped English player like those from the "golden generation"

As for Mainoo, it is early days but technically he is easily better.

How is he world class? This is the overhying I'm talking about.

He is being somewhat overhyped, but there's good reason considering the season he's had. It's unbelievable that people can't just see that he's an exceptional talent without trying to tear him down.

He's got all the tools to be a top player for the next 10+ years, I can see him dropping back to playing a deeper role like Modric has done. As I said in a previous post, at 20 Modric was still playing in Croatia. He was on the radar of most clubs but none were willing to take the chance on him.

As for Mainoo being technically better, that's just a matter of opinion, they are different players both positionally and physically. Mainoo has been brilliant but he hasn't shown anywhere near the same level of quality and consistency that Bellingham has.

England could have a midfield of Rice, Mainoo and Bellingham, with Foden and Palmer options in there as well. That could be one of the best international combinations over the next 3 or 4 tournaments. I feel ultimately it's the defenders and goalkeeper that will let them down, no top left back options and really only 1 very good centre back in Stones.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He only went two games all season in La Liga without scoring or assisting and in the CL the only games he didn't score or assist in were the QF and SF BUT, I think his performances from the QF were largely poor, especially the final where he was making many mistakes and couldn't get into the game. He's only 20 so will mature but he's clearly got flaws in his game that he can work on. I can imagine next season his goals/assists dropping but him looking better as a player for example.

He should be judged in relative terms.

Being a nailed-on started at Real Madrid in the late stages of the CL at 20 years old is a big deal, even if he doesn't perform.
The other players of a similar age are not performing at those stages either, or even playing. Tchouameni was benched last season, Camavinga isn't a nailed-on starter in midfield (after two years at the club), Vinicius Jr. was not so good for a few years, etc.

If you're starting these games it's because of what you've showed in the rest of the season. Also because of lack of options but that wasn't as big a problem here.

 

[SilentWitness]

He should be judged in relative terms.

Being a nailed-on started at Real Madrid in the late stages of the CL at 20 years old is a big deal, even if he doesn't perform.
The other players of a similar age are not performing at those stages either, or even playing. Tchouameni was benched last season, Camavinga isn't a nailed-on starter in midfield (after two years at the club), Vinicius Jr. was not so good for a few years, etc.

If you're starting these games it's because of what you've showed in the rest of the season. Also because of lack of options but that wasn't as big a problem here.

Of course, but I think it's fine to criticise these latter stage performances, they were poor, no matter the age or profile of the player. The over the top criticism of him overall as a player though is silly. I think that's the problem though, people struggle to gap the bridge between criticism of performance and the player overall.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I agree. I was using your post to add additional info rather than debate your points. Was probably not so clear.

 

[el_loco_bielsa]

Madrid won zilch in that period where those two were at their peak.

Which two? Modric and Kroos? The same modric and kroos who have won 6 and 5 CLs respectively? Ok.

 

[Fortitude]

Madridistas can you verify:

1st 3rd: All-time great standard; performances we’re not being overhyped as he was having a period of play and performance level that if it became his standard output, he was nailed on to be an all-time great.

2nd 3rd: Performing to a world class standard up until injury. Not 1:1 ATG at this juncture, but still a top level performer in both league and CL.

Final 3rd: Solid, studious contributor. Above average but not world class output. Noticeably poorer in touch and overall game as well as energy levels, but performing perfunctory tasks excellently.

?

 

[stefan92]

Which two? Modric and Kroos? The same modric and kroos who have won 6 and 5 CLs respectively? Ok.

I think he meant Lampard and Gerrard. Real really didn't win CLs while those two had their prime, so it's unlikely that they would have won a lot of CLs if they had moved there.

 

[GatoLoco]

Which two? Modric and Kroos? The same modric and kroos who have won 6 and 5 CLs respectively? Ok.

Both won 6 CLs. Kroos won his first one at Bayern in 2013.

Madridistas can you verify:

1st 3rd: All-time great standard; performances we’re not being overhyped as he was having a period of play and performance level that if it became his standard output, he was nailed on to be an all-time great.

2nd 3rd: Performing to a world class standard up until injury. Not 1:1 ATG at this juncture, but still a top level performer in both league and CL.

Final 3rd: Solid, studious contributor. Above average but not world class output. Noticeably poorer in touch and overall game as well as energy levels, but performing perfunctory tasks excellently.

?

Yes. This is a good summary.

 

[Red the Bear]

Which two? Modric and Kroos? The same modric and kroos who have won 6 and 5 CLs respectively? Ok.

When lampard and gerard where at their peak I mean.

Madrid won no european trophic from 2002 to 2014 and won only 2 league titles in that period I think.

 

[Alpha 1]

Vinicius is genuinely generational, a multiple ballon d’or winner in waiting. Bellingham is merely a very good midfielder, no different to gerrard or lampard in terms of the maximum potential he will hit. If he was born 20 years ago he’d never have ended up at Madrid - he’d be at one of the big English clubs.

The only difference is that these days English players are increasingly open to going abroad at the start of their careers. If gerrard or lampard had ended up at Madrid in the last 15 years, they’d both have multiple CLs.

There are gun players at Madrid who have dragged them to the multiple CLs - Vinicius, modric, kroos, benzema, Ronaldo, courtois, ramos etc. Then there are guys who’ve come along for the ride and would in another world have plugged on somewhere else having a decent or good career rather than a stellar one. Bellingham currently sits in that category, alongside the likes of valverde, camavinga, tchouameni etc. Remains to be seen if one or more of them genuine becomes a modric/kroos level gun player.

Vinicius isn't generational. A world class player but not generational. Neymar was a generational talent, as was Messi, Ronaldinho, R9, Maradona, Cruijff...I'd put vini below these types of talents.

I was using the phrase 'world class' to highlight the level most people are predicting he will hit but more importantly, the fact people like to knock people down. I'm not overhyping anything, whether he is world class is another debate.

But what I would say is that he's 20 and already playing for the biggest club in the world, winning trophies in the heart of their midfield. If that's not heading for world class then I don't know what is.
Any other player you could mention, like KDB for example, he's already beaten to a CL win.

Or are you saying he's not world class because Madrid only buy mediocre players like Mbappe?

He isn't world class at anything. A jack of all trades, master of none. Playing for Madrid doesn’t automatically make you world class. And yes Mainoo is technically much better; just plays for a dysfunctional, badly coached side.

The best you can hope for from Bellingham is he reaches the level of Gerrard. He does have those physical attributes of a Gerrard.

The English hope for a megastar borders on desperation.

 

[DixieDean]

Vinicius isn't generational. A world class player but not generational. Neymar was a generational talent, as was Messi, Ronaldinho, R9, Maradona, Cruijff...I'd put vini below these types of talents.

He isn't world class at anything. A jack of all trades, master of none. Playing for Madrid doesn’t automatically make you world class. And yes Mainoo is technically much better; just plays for a dysfunctional, badly coached side.

The best you can hope for from Bellingham is he reaches the level of Gerrard. He does have those physical attributes of a Gerrard.

The English hope for a megastar borders on desperation.

I would agree with this. I think Gerrard is best case scenario. Which, of course is still pretty dam great.

 

[noodlehair]

Why can't people juat be happy England has a really good young player who also seems to have a brain/good mentality?

Why does it matter exactly how good he is? He's good enough to be a key player for the champions league winners at 20 years old.

How stupidly high or insane does the bar need to go for him to somehow end up being criticised or knocked down for that?

 

[Fortitude]

Why can't people juat be happy England has a really good young player who also seems to have a brain/good mentality?

Why does it matter exactly how good he is? He's good enough to be a key player for the champions league winners at 20 years old.

How stupidly high does the bar need to go for him to somehow end up being criticised or knocked down for that?

It’s mostly pushback for the sake of it. He’s had a weird season that has tapered off at an unfortunate time.

 

[SATA]

Is his younger brother equally good, for those who has watch both of them play? This kind of reminds me of the Pogba brothers, where Paul being the youngest was the much superior and better amongst them despite them having the same genes

 

[noodlehair]

It’s mostly pushback for the sake of it. He’s had a weird season that has tapered off at an unfortunate time.

Probably something to do with him being 20 and going through form patches like nearly every player does.

There was no way he was going to keep up the way he started the season either.

You are right it is for the sake if it but we do this every time England has a player who shows a bit of promise. Its like people want them to fail..

 

[Fortitude]

Probably something to do with him being 20 and going through form patches like nearly every player does.

There was no way he was going to keep up the way he started the season either.

You are right it is for the sake if it but we do this every time England has a player who shows a bit of promise. Its like people want them to fail..

Or at least be put back ‘in their place’. It would be fair enough if his whole season was held to scrutiny, but to only speak up during the tough period suggests an agenda.

 

[giorno]

Madridistas can you verify:

1st 3rd: All-time great standard; performances we’re not being overhyped as he was having a period of play and performance level that if it became his standard output, he was nailed on to be an all-time great.

2nd 3rd: Performing to a world class standard up until injury. Not 1:1 ATG at this juncture, but still a top level performer in both league and CL.

Final 3rd: Solid, studious contributor. Above average but not world class output. Noticeably poorer in touch and overall game as well as energy levels, but performing perfunctory tasks excellently.

?

Pretty much, but that first 3rd of season wasn't ATG so much as The Second Coming of Di Stefano

 

[Blood Mage]

He was really bad in the final. Compare that performance with Mainoo's against City, a far superior team. Not saying Bellingham isn't an elite talent but he's obviously got some work to do.

 

[noodlehair]

Or at least be put back ‘in their place’. It would be fair enough if his whole season was held to scrutiny, but to only speak up during the tough period suggests an agenda.

I think with England there's sometimes this weird element of jealousy/spite, although not on a personal level. Maybe on a "doesn't play for my team" level...but I'm really not sure. I definitely felt that happened with Beckham and Rooney.

But then the same happens on a smaller scale with United players even purely from our own fanbase. We hype our young players to the moon then start to rip them apart when their bad form isn't as good as their good form. Or whenever the team still fails to match expectations. We did it on here with Ronaldo until the 2006/2007 season. After the initial excitement and hype is out the way, the good games get taken for granted but as soon as there's a bad one its analysed to death.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's outrageously overrated.

 

[stefan92]

He was really bad in the final. Compare that performance with Mainoo's against City, a far superior team. Not saying Bellingham isn't an elite talent but he's obviously got some work to do.

He just needs to get fit again, clearly wasn't at his best lately. But Bellingham kept Real in the race in the beginning of the season with exceptional performances and a great scoring run. Without him, they wouldn't have been in the position to challenge for the league and the CL.

 

[Boycott]

Sometimes I wonder how many United fans on here remember Scholes was an attacking minded midfield player / second striker for most of his 20s which is why the club bought Veron to try and make the 4-4-1-1 with RVN work and his renaissance as an orchestrator sitting deep and pinging balls for fun began when he touched 30. It wasn't uncommon for Nicky Butt to be selected over him in big games up until then. To say because Bellingham at 20 isn't demonstrating enough of that ilk of player when the players who are personified as that role weren't even well known at the same age is very unfair. If Scholes retired in 2007 he'd probably be remembered more for being the midfielder who would get you double digits in goals whereas when he retired in 2013 it had been almost a decade since he did that but his reputation went up a notch for becoming a passing maestro sitting deep. Bellingham has lots of time on his hands to make that transition if he wants.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Zinedine Zidane? Really?

 

[Kwabs]

He should be judged in relative terms.

Being a nailed-on started at Real Madrid in the late stages of the CL at 20 years old is a big deal, even if he doesn't perform.
The other players of a similar age are not performing at those stages either, or even playing. Tchouameni was benched last season, Camavinga isn't a nailed-on starter in midfield (after two years at the club), Vinicius Jr. was not so good for a few years, etc.

If you're starting these games it's because of what you've showed in the rest of the season. Also because of lack of options but that wasn't as big a problem here.

This is what everyone seems to forget re Bellingham and Vini Jr. I think both are very good players, but everyone seems to forget the struggles that Vini Jr had when he first came to Madrid. It wasn't always like it is now. People like to pit them against each other and say that Vini Jr is 10 times better or whatever when they're totally different types of player and Vini is also 3 years older, has been at Madrid a lot longer, and is much further along in his development.

 

[ForFuchsSake]

That goalscoring purple patch was over a while ago. Football is more than stats if you actually watch games

Still an utterly nonsensical thing to say even if it was a ‘purple patch’. He’s proven himself as a prolific attacking midfielder with over twenty goals this season which is a good return whichever way you spin it.

You could point to three qualities that he has indeed ‘mastered’ - timing of his runs/positioning, finishing and heading ability. Therefore he has some traits that he is a ‘master’ of. I’m fully aware his form dropped off in the knockout rounds of the CL though he is still a highly effective player.

 

[kouroux]

Still an utterly nonsensical thing to say even if it was a ‘purple patch’. He’s proven himself as a prolific attacking midfielder with over twenty goals this season which is a good return whichever way you spin it.

You could point to three qualities that he has indeed ‘mastered’ - timing of his runs/positioning, finishing and heading ability. Therefore he has some traits that he is a ‘master’ of. I’m fully aware his form dropped off in the knockout rounds of the CL though he is still a highly effective player.

That's what you think and I don't fully agree with it. Deal with it

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I’m as irritated as anyone by the constant ball scratching he gets from the media but he’s a generational talent and for good reason. Stop fecking trying to dump on him for a few bad games in Europe.

 

[ForFuchsSake]

I’m as irritated as anyone by the constant ball scratching he gets from the media but he’s a generational talent and for good reason. Stop fecking trying to dump on him for a few bad games in Europe.

The guy’s 20-years-old and played an integral role in Madrid’s domestic and European success this season and has been a certified match-winner for the greatest club side on multiple occasions.

I get that he can ghost in and out of games but what more are people actually expecting? I’m certain the vast majority who are criticising him so heavily, would not have expected him to have the impact he has this season.

I swear some people want to needlessly shit on players simply because they’re lauded too much by the media.

 

[Joel Miller]

Imagine that, a 20 year old didnt have the best of games in CL final and suddenly he's crap.

Never change cafe, never change.

Also about controlling a game, well he isnt that type of a midfielder anyway.

He didnt really turn up in the knockouts in general.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

What people are failing to realize is that it's not the english media hyping him up this time.

It's the Spaniards. Real fans were all calling him the next zidane (which, other than running style and stride type, not the same kinda player), and all the Spanish outlets were straight up WTF.

He got voted La Liga player of the year, based on public opinion.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Vinicius is genuinely generational, a multiple ballon d’or winner in waiting. Bellingham is merely a very good midfielder, no different to gerrard or lampard in terms of the maximum potential he will hit. If he was born 20 years ago he’d never have ended up at Madrid - he’d be at one of the big English clubs.

The only difference is that these days English players are increasingly open to going abroad at the start of their careers. If gerrard or lampard had ended up at Madrid in the last 15 years, they’d both have multiple CLs.

I'm sure you'd have been saying the same thing if Liverpool had signed him from Dortmund after Trent and Henderson were twerking for him for years.

 

[Alpha 1]

Probably something to do with him being 20 and going through form patches like nearly every player does.

There was no way he was going to keep up the way he started the season either.

You are right it is for the sake if it but we do this every time England has a player who shows a bit of promise. Its like people want them to fail..

No. It is the overhyping that is the problem. He is not anywhere near what English press and pundits will have you believe. And he has looked very mediocre in the knock outs of the ucl.

Foden on the other hand has been really good as has Kane. Mainoo is still early years but looks very talented. Bellingham is the one who really doesn’t have any stand out attribute

Madridistas can you verify:

1st 3rd: All-time great standard; performances we’re not being overhyped as he was having a period of play and performance level that if it became his standard output, he was nailed on to be an all-time great.

2nd 3rd: Performing to a world class standard up until injury. Not 1:1 ATG at this juncture, but still a top level performer in both league and CL.

Final 3rd: Solid, studious contributor. Above average but not world class output. Noticeably poorer in touch and overall game as well as energy levels, but performing perfunctory tasks excellently.

?

Exaggeration. He was never at an ATG level.

I’m as irritated as anyone by the constant ball scratching he gets from the media but he’s a generational talent and for good reason. Stop fecking trying to dump on him for a few bad games in Europe.

Define generational talent and give other examples. You're greatly overrating him here exactly like the media ball scratching that is irritating you.

The guy’s 20-years-old and played an integral role in Madrid’s domestic and European success this season and has been a certified match-winner for the greatest club side on multiple occasions.

I get that he can ghost in and out of games but what more are people actually expecting? I’m certain the vast majority who are criticising him so heavily, would not have expected him to have the impact he has this season.

I swear some people want to needlessly shit on players simply because they’re lauded too much by the media.

For fuchs sake man. He has been a passenger in Europe and domestically in the second half of the season.

 

[Real Name]

He didnt really turn up in the knockouts in general.

So?

 

[giorno]

He got voted La Liga player of the year, based on public opinion.

what? the guy winning clasicos, carrying real madrid on his shoulders for half the season, being the most decisive player in the league by the distance of the mariana trench, was voted best player based on public opinion?

 

[noodlehair]

No. It is the overhyping that is the problem. He is not anywhere near what English press and pundits will have you believe. And he has looked very mediocre in the knock outs of the ucl.

Foden on the other hand has been really good as has Kane. Mainoo is still early years but looks very talented. Bellingham is the one who really doesn’t have any stand out attribute

No one is having me believe anything? He's often been England's best player since he's come into the team and also has a bit of charisma and character, and also plays for Real Madrid, which is why he gets the extra attention.

Foden is also hyped (ridiculously so by Gary Neville in particular) despite often having games where he is quiet or ineffective. Mainoo is hyped ridiculously despite only having 6 months first team experience in a badly struggling midfield. Kane is recognised as one of the best strikers in the world in spite of never winning a single thing.

Singling out Bellingham for this is weird. England have some very good young players and that's really all there is to it. Its not a reason to suddenly pick one to start hating on.

The whole he has no standout attribute/best he can hope for is Gerrard level stuff is laughable too. A Gerrard in an actual functioning England team as opposed to shoehorned into an ego driven one seems pretty good to me.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

what? the guy winning clasicos, carrying real madrid on his shoulders for half the season, being the most decisive player in the league by the distance of the mariana trench, was voted best player based on public opinion?

No, as in, I'm explaining how the Player of the year in La Liga is held? It is a vote.

I'm not saying he is undeserving, i'm saying it's the Spanish hype, not British hype.

 

[Alpha 1]

No one is having me believe anything? He's often been England's best player since he's come into the team and also has a bit of charisma and character, and also plays for Real Madrid, which is why he gets the extra attention.

Foden is also hyped (ridiculously so by Gary Neville in particular) despite often having games where he is quiet or ineffective. Mainoo is hyped ridiculously despite only having 6 months first team experience in a badly struggling midfield. Kane is recognised as one of the best strikers in the world in spite of never winning a single thing.

Singling out Bellingham for this is weird. England have some very good young players and that's really all there is to it. Its not a reason to suddenly pick one to start hating on.

The whole he has no standout attribute/best he can hope for is Gerrard level stuff is laughable too. A Gerrard in an actual functioning England team as opposed to shoehorned into an ego driven one seems pretty good to me.

He has been absolutely terrible in the second half of the season. He was decent in the first half but the main thing was goals. ALOT of his play is about passing backwards and sideways which was also true early season except for the goals.

For a footballer that is this hyped, I expect ALOT more.

This season Foden has been much better and in general is a better footballer. Kane may not have won team trophies but as a strike has everything. They are hyped too but not anywhere near Bellingham.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

He has been absolutely terrible in the second half of the season. He was decent in the first half but the main thing was goals. ALOT of his play is about passing backwards and sideways which was also true early season except for the goals.

For a footballer that is this hyped, I expect ALOT more.

This season Foden has been much better and in general is a better footballer. Kane may not have won team trophies but as a strike has everything. They are hyped too but not anywhere near Bellingham.

"I haven't watched a single minute of Real Madrid games outside of the CL knockouts, here is the proof"