Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

[Alpha 1]

Did I see the same game? Musiala was even more anonymous than Bellingham. He didn’t touch the ball for big chunks of the game

When he did touch the ball, he did much more with it than Bellingham.

highest number of interceptions tonight
2nd highest tackles
Most touches
Highest possession kept ratio
Most completed passes
Most distance covered
Highest pass percentage

anonymous indeed

All I saw was sideways passes. That's it. The very few times he tried to do more than that, he lost the ball very easily.

His early season exploits infront of goal are earning him his spot otherwise even a 40 year old Modric looked better when he came on.

Musiala was not better than Jude tonight, let alone 'much much' better.

Musiala did not see alot of the ball but when he did, he was definitely much better. Eg He played a part in the build up to the goal.

 

[Alpha 1]

I think the standards have put to a ridiculous level, based on what Ronaldo/Messi have done and the outrageous consistency expected of them.

I grew up watching Zidane, a player who won 3 Fifa WPOTY's and 1 Balon d'or. He was one of my favorite players as a young teenager/late child.

In all his greatest seasons, he spent at-least 15 games a season ghosting through games doing, quite literally, feck all. There were so many games for Juve and Madrid where he would just jog around, receive the ball, turn and then just pass it to someone else, for 90 minutes.

Yet he was someone who, out of nothing, could conjure sheer magic, and at his very best, through sheer force of will, could take the game by the scruff of the neck and win the game.

Yet, in some crucial champions league games, he simply did not show up. But that was enough to get him many Balon D'ors or their retrospective equivalent at the time.

You watch him vs Real Madrid in the 98 final, and he quite literally, was a solid 3/10. He was dreadful that match, yet still won Balon D'or that season. Did you guys watch the final vs Borussia Dortmund? He got destroyed Park Ji Sung vs Pirlo style by Paul Lambert. Yes, that Paul Lambert.
I feel nowadays, modern fans will watch those games and say, "Wow, this guy is so overrated, he's meant to be the best playmaker in the world yet he literally does nothing, what's he good at? turning and then passing it sideways?

Frank Lampard came 2nd in balon d'or and made top 5 multiple times. Yet nobody ever said, "Lampard should never have come close." Bellingham has already exceeded Lampard's best ever season in terms of output and is generally just a better all round player. If Lampard can make Balon D'or contention by his output, why can't Bellingham?

We've been spoilt by the sheer audacity of Messi/Ronaldo being able to do it all season, every season, for 10+ seasons. This is not the norm, most players have games during the season where they are either just keeping it simple and ticking things over or just not all there - this is true for literally everyone not named Messi and Ronaldo and even they occasionally had this.

Or Prime Zidane in the Champions League in 2000. Did nothing all group stage, got sent off in the 3rd game. Came back in the final game, did absolutely nothing, decided to nut someone (Materazzi was not the first time) and then got himself a red. His entire CL Campaign summed up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/champions_league/994847.stm

He went on to the win the World Player of the year that season.

Firstly, Zidane is overrated; he was very inconsistent but he showed up with moments (eg volley vs Leverkusen) or performances (,eg vs Brazil in 2006) in the biggest games and was very nice to watch almost like a ballerina. These big game contributions are what got him his recognition; the ballond'or/Fifa award in 1998 was for his 2 goals in the world cup (R9 was easily the bpitw), the FIFA award in 2000 was for his standout tournament that was Euro 2000 and the FIFA award in 2003 was really for nothing really.

Now for Bellingham. The English press and fans have overhyped him so much that I expect ALOT more from him than the sideways passes I saw vs Bayern, vs Barcelona, vs City . Yesterday, the very few times he played positive football, he easily lost the ball. That is when you ask yourself what is he actually really really good at? Based on what I have seen, there really isn't anything in his game that can make him truly stand out. He isn't a great dribbler, passer, creator, scorer and he doesn't have eye catching skills. Vinicius on the other hand looks like a potential ballon d'or winner.

Zidane showed up in big matches in big competitions, so most of those career downsides are forgotten. If Jude can manage the same, the same will likely happen for him, as happened in both of his Barca performances this year. In the first Classico, Gavi had him pocketed until the tail end of the game when he popped up with the two goals. Similarly he popped up with the goal at the end of the last one when his performance otherwise was decent at best. Those are both now hailed as great performances. Unlike Zidane, current Jude also does not have that "take over the game" as the fulcrum of the team thing. He pops in with crucial moments (like Josleu today). It's different.

It's not just games during a season, he's been off it the whole second half of the season, whether through injuries, suspensions, tiredness, tactical tinkering or whatever other reason you can conjure.

Nobody can match the two freaks, but is this new crop even on the level of Neymar, Suarez, Benzema, Lewa in terms of quality/consistency? I think in their best seasons they were cut above whatever the current "bpitw" candidates are serving up. What we're seeing is a recalibration of standards and expectations and it's not just because of Messi and Ronaldo.

Tbf, those 2 games from Bellingham vs Barcelona weren't great at all but like many of Ronaldo’s games, the other things do get forgotten if he scores; Cristiano regularly stunk up vs Bayern but still manage hattricks and the rest was forgotten. Prime Messi is the one who has had consistently great performances with or without goals. Neymar had the ability but not the mindset.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Jesus Christ this thread is worse than the Ronaldo vs Messi thread was.

Bellingham is very good at football, playing for Real Madrid, soon to be going to a Champions League final at 20 after winning the league in his debut season.

Before the toxicity that Ronaldo vs Messi debates brought along, it was possible to just, y’know, enjoy watching footballers because of what they brought to the game. I honestly don’t remember people cnuting off Deco, Rui Costa, Zidane, Guti, Pirlo et al.

It’s inane to try and boil everything down to ‘vs’ and work out some kind of grading systems for a damn 20 year old. Obviously I’m pissing in the wind, people will crack on living their lives, but these threads are largely unreadable. 80% of posts are trying to shit on one player to elevate another.

I absolutely adore Bellingham. I think he’s got the best possible manager at the minute too. He (along with all the talented Madrid players) just adjusts to whatever he’s asked to do. Be that diligent defensive shifts or rampaging free roles. Hoping on everything that Southgate manages to utilise him in a similar way, and doesn’t just tell him to do the same narrow job for 90 minutes of every game. Really think he’ll lead us to the Euros title if we use him the right way in the right games.

 

[Kwabs]

Jesus Christ this thread is worse than the Ronaldo vs Messi thread was.

Bellingham is very good at football, playing for Real Madrid, soon to be going to a Champions League final at 20 after winning the league in his debut season.

Before the toxicity that Ronaldo vs Messi debates brought along, it was possible to just, y’know, enjoy watching footballers because of what they brought to the game. I honestly don’t remember people cnuting off Deco, Rui Costa, Zidane, Guti, Pirlo et al.

It’s inane to try and boil everything down to ‘vs’ and work out some kind of grading systems for a damn 20 year old. Obviously I’m pissing in the wind, people will crack on living their lives, but these threads are largely unreadable. 80% of posts are trying to shit on one player to elevate another.

I absolutely adore Bellingham. I think he’s got the best possible manager at the minute too. He (along with all the talented Madrid players) just adjusts to whatever he’s asked to do. Be that diligent defensive shifts or rampaging free roles. Hoping on everything that Southgate manages to utilise him in a similar way, and doesn’t just tell him to do the same narrow job for 90 minutes of every game. Really think he’ll lead us to the Euros title if we use him the right way in the right games.

Reading some of the responses in the thread, I think the problem us that a lot of people haven't watched him that much and only started watching him in these last few CL games when he hasn't been playing that well. His form has dipped in the latter part of the season, perhaps due to fatigue or the lingering effects of an injury.

But if you look at the big picture, he's a baby at 20 years old, passed over the easy option of going to a Liverpool or United (easy in the sense that it's his home country, he speaks the language and knows the culture and customs) to go to the most successful team in European Cup history, scored over 20 goals and got 10 assists in his first season (second top scorer in La Liga), helped the team to win the league (which they didn't last season, fell short to Barca) and helped them get to the CL final (again, which they didn't reach last season). I'd say that's pretty good.

I don't deny that the hype has spiralled out of control in certain quarters, but that's to be expected.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Having watched most of the four games vs. Man City and Bayern Munich (and none of his La Liga games), it's a bit hard to imagine how he's gotten 22 goals and 10 assists this season. He hasn't really gotten close to either in those games (against tough opposition obviously).

He's had some nice touches, has held up the ball well at times, and covered some ground, but he hasn't really made his mark in and around the box. But that's a pretty mild critique of a 20 year old. Clearly he's a top player already, and very mature as a player.

 

[kouroux]

Jesus Christ this thread is worse than the Ronaldo vs Messi thread was.

Bellingham is very good at football, playing for Real Madrid, soon to be going to a Champions League final at 20 after winning the league in his debut season.

Before the toxicity that Ronaldo vs Messi debates brought along, it was possible to just, y’know, enjoy watching footballers because of what they brought to the game. I honestly don’t remember people cnuting off Deco, Rui Costa, Zidane, Guti, Pirlo et al.

It’s inane to try and boil everything down to ‘vs’ and work out some kind of grading systems for a damn 20 year old.

Those crazy criticism, used to happen back then too. Don't doubt it, I remember it all too well

 

[MrWilliams]

All I ever hear about this guy is how good of a speaker he is, how mature he is for his age and how he carries himself. Sounds like a good fit for a lawyer or something. The few times I’ve watched him I haven’t seen anything special but obviously I’m missing something.

the bolded took me out

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Those crazy criticism, used to happen back then too. Don't doubt it, I remember it all too well

to be fair, pirlo one was justified.
He was stealing a living in his latter years at AC Milan. Granted it wasn’t entirely his fault.
He was always someone who needed midfield runners around him to perform well. After Gattuso and Ambrosini declined and lost their legs and Flamini was a flop, pirlo really really suffered.

 

[stefan92]

Having watched most of the four games vs. Man City and Bayern Munich (and none of his La Liga games), it's a bit hard to imagine how he's gotten 22 goals and 10 assists this season.

The simple answer is: by playing a different role. Early in the season when he had his incredible scoring form Real played a 442-diamond/433 hybrid system with Bellingham as a "9.5" between two wide forwards.

In matches like yesterday he plays more behind Vinicius instead alongside him, like a true midfielder, more focused on defending and controling the match then on scoring.

 

[Fobal]

I think there has been some extremes in the thread that do not help

1. The type of role and player and the alltime comparisons have been far from suitable, those Di Stefano and Zidane comparisons doesn't suit the style, primary roles and evolution of the respective playes carreers and roles they've played.
2. As a side note that can be subjet of its very own thread, analyzing players nowadays it's quite diff from even recent "just" televised times. The enviroment changed a lot, social media, globalization, the proliferation of football analyzed as a gossip show and the constant presence of football in our every day life had developed a combo that tends to create an extreme nit picking view on perfomances (with lots of those views with quite ill agendas behind) or on the other extreme, a pure stats focus one, with very little in between. Sign of the times too when antagonism is more profitable than ever on every sense and area of our everyday life.
3 Like I've said before, Jude mirror regarding former players in my view should be closer to those like Redondo, Mauro Silva mix with some box to box style midfielder with numbers, than fellas like Di Stefano, Platini, Zidane and such, more when even those had their clear diff between them.
4. So far he started his Real Madrid stage with a bang, many of those goals that created such bang weren't precisly stunning, but showed his box to box capability and the serious and mature way he showed himself in the team. He has a great array of abilities, that makes him a great asset as a box to box all around player. To be compare with some of the fellas mentioned in this current over the top Social media world in need of clicks, he must settle in a role were he can have more presence with the ball, that's why I've said that him seeking for a some Redondo/Mauro+Box to Box goaslcoring sort of mirror could be great. It doesn't matter if he is not in the level of dribbling, or metronome, defending those two had and that he isn't even a Di Stefano, Platini, Zidane, Rikjaard, Gullit regarding his offensive atributes, he can create his own bracket with a mix elevating his best abilities. Or on the other hand, he fully comitts to a dynamic constant box to box menace or a more tactical, passing oriented, holding midfielder.
In any case is bizarre to go hard on him with such great seasons under his belt in these last years, his age and his mindset.

PD: regarding Zidane, he was a player more prone to "moments", to particular extraordinary displays than a constant presence mid offensive player within games, but his extraordinary quality (and plain beauty of his game), mindset and winner attitude made him such a Legend.

 

[Alpha 1]

Jesus Christ this thread is worse than the Ronaldo vs Messi thread was.

Bellingham is very good at football, playing for Real Madrid, soon to be going to a Champions League final at 20 after winning the league in his debut season.

Before the toxicity that Ronaldo vs Messi debates brought along, it was possible to just, y’know, enjoy watching footballers because of what they brought to the game. I honestly don’t remember people cnuting off Deco, Rui Costa, Zidane, Guti, Pirlo et al.

It’s inane to try and boil everything down to ‘vs’ and work out some kind of grading systems for a damn 20 year old. Obviously I’m pissing in the wind, people will crack on living their lives, but these threads are largely unreadable. 80% of posts are trying to shit on one player to elevate another.

I absolutely adore Bellingham. I think he’s got the best possible manager at the minute too. He (along with all the talented Madrid players) just adjusts to whatever he’s asked to do. Be that diligent defensive shifts or rampaging free roles. Hoping on everything that Southgate manages to utilise him in a similar way, and doesn’t just tell him to do the same narrow job for 90 minutes of every game. Really think he’ll lead us to the Euros title if we use him the right way in the right games.

It the unnecessary hyping up of players that gets me. It tends to happen alot with English and Brazilian footballers.

Brazilian footballers are hyped because of expectations based on history of producing some absolutely great players in the past. English footballers are hyped by the English sports media in the hope that they will actually turn out to be world beaters; so far, none have been that.

 

[Matt851]

Mbappe, Kane, Vini are having such supeiror seasons that he should be a distant 4th at best.

Mbappe, are you sure?

Vini missed the first part of the season when bellingham was exceptional and kane os having a great season but his club won't win anything

 

[AfonsoAlves]

It the unnecessary hyping up of players that gets me. It tends to happen alot with English and Brazilian footballers.

Brazilian footballers are hyped because of expectations based on history of producing some absolutely great players in the past. English footballers are hyped by the English sports media in the hope that they will actually turn out to be world beaters; so far, none have been that.

This is a myth.

Every nation's media hypes up their own players and absolutely rags them and obliterates them when they don't perform to the lofty expectations.

You think English Sports Media do this because you speak English but don't follow BILD, Marca, L'equipe etc etc.

They're just as bad if not worst. French sports media is the absolutely most chauvinistic media about there - the moment anyone appears remotely talented in any sport they are hyped to kingdom come.

Henri Saivet was hyped to be the generations greatest attacker, and so was Yohan Gourcuff and it certainly wasn't by English media.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Having watched most of the four games vs. Man City and Bayern Munich (and none of his La Liga games), it's a bit hard to imagine how he's gotten 22 goals and 10 assists this season. He hasn't really gotten close to either in those games (against tough opposition obviously).

He's had some nice touches, has held up the ball well at times, and covered some ground, but he hasn't really made his mark in and around the box. But that's a pretty mild critique of a 20 year old. Clearly he's a top player already, and very mature as a player.

I think it’s his mentality that sets him apart, he’s almost a throw back, he would of been just fine in a changing room with Keane, scholes, giggs, beckham.. a dying breed in the modern game

 

[GatoLoco]

Am I the only person who thinks the hype in the first part of the season was justified? I mean, how many players can you name that produced that start at a big club at 20 years old no matter the nationality.

 

[GatoLoco]

Having watched most of the four games vs. Man City and Bayern Munich (and none of his La Liga games), it's a bit hard to imagine how he's gotten 22 goals and 10 assists this season. He hasn't really gotten close to either in those games (against tough opposition obviously).

He's had some nice touches, has held up the ball well at times, and covered some ground, but he hasn't really made his mark in and around the box. But that's a pretty mild critique of a 20 year old. Clearly he's a top player already, and very mature as a player.

Rather than a distinction between those particular games vs City and Bayern and La Liga games in general I would make one between 2023 and 2024, no matter the competition.

In 2023 Bellingham scores 13 goals in La Liga and 4 goals in Champions League. During 2024 he scores 5 goals in La Liga and none in Champions League. His form in 2024 has clearly dropped with respect to 2023, and not just because the European rivals were more tricky in 2024.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jude-bellingham/leistungsdaten/spieler/581678

 

[Judas]

He will score the winner in the CL final.

 

[Zehner]

Am I the only person who thinks the hype in the first part of the season was justified? I mean, how many players can you name that produced that start at a big club at 20 years old no matter the nationality.

Everyone who scores a lot for his respective position will be overhyped, IMO. But Bellingham was excellent at the start of the season and to be fair I think he still plays very well. I think it is a testament to the maturing process he's been through at Madrid that he's not always trying the audacious and risky choices in order to create something but can also play a more quiet and complementary role. His bottom level is higher than it used to be for Dortmund. The goals will return eventually, goal streaks are sometimes a bit patchy.

 

[JPRouve]

Which star not named Messi isn't this true of, over the last 30 years though? From 1996 to 2004 Zidane had 2 bad stretches, in the second half of 98/beginning of 99, on a juventus side in full meltdown(he promptly got better once they sacked Lippi and stopped the disfunction), and then in his first 6 months at Real Madrid in '01(again, once he settled in, he was awesome). Outside of those stretches he was pretty consistent

That's the thing. Zidane was consistent and he had a high floor, the only issue is that he always gave the impression that he could elevate his game on command which is why I believe some people when to this extreme and suggest that he was ghosting through seasons, we take for granted his base level. A similar thing has been done with Iniesta.

 

[giorno]

Am I the only person who thinks the hype in the first part of the season was justified? I mean, how many players can you name that produced that start at a big club at 20 years old no matter the nationality.

The guy absolutely demolished the league and was THE reason we won it and in such fashion. The hype was more than justified. Until 2 months ago he'd been the best player in the world and it wasn't close

 

[JPRouve]

I'm conflicted. He reminds me Muller in the sense that he does things that only elite players do, his anticipation or ability to put himself in the most impactful situations but then there are moments where he gets on the ball and I think to myself "That's a bona fide Manchester United player".

 

[simonhch]

This is a myth.

Every nation's media hypes up their own players and absolutely rags them and obliterates them when they don't perform to the lofty expectations.

You think English Sports Media do this because you speak English but don't follow BILD, Marca, L'equipe etc etc.

They're just as bad if not worst. French sports media is the absolutely most chauvinistic media about there - the moment anyone appears remotely talented in any sport they are hyped to kingdom come.

Henri Saivet was hyped to be the generations greatest attacker, and so was Yohan Gourcuff and it certainly wasn't by English media.

Agreed. I lived in Spain for several years and it was the same there. It’s not English nature to do that, it’s human nature.

 

[JPRouve]

This is a myth.

Every nation's media hypes up their own players and absolutely rags them and obliterates them when they don't perform to the lofty expectations.

You think English Sports Media do this because you speak English but don't follow BILD, Marca, L'equipe etc etc.

They're just as bad if not worst. French sports media is the absolutely most chauvinistic media about there - the moment anyone appears remotely talented in any sport they are hyped to kingdom come.

Henri Saivet was hyped to be the generations greatest attacker, and so was Yohan Gourcuff and it certainly wasn't by English media.

French media are at both extremes, they hype up everyone as the next Zidane, that's not really true for Saivet but Marvin Martin or Camel Meriem are funny examples for that. But they will also absolutely shit on you at the first opportunity especially if you are french, in general they don't care as much about foreigners in good or bad.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

French media are at both extremes, they hype up everyone as the next Zidane, that's not really true for Saivet but Marvin Martin or Camel Meriem are funny examples for that. But they will also absolutely shit on you at the first opportunity especially if you are french, in general they don't care as much about foreigners in good or bad.

I wasn’t even thinking about football when it comes to French sports media and it’s chauvinism tbh.

When it comes to cycling, if a French guy can ride a bike well it gets ridiculous and the amount of pressure heaped on them is insane. When they don’t perform they get demolished and then also accuse every non French rider of doping.

The pressure the likes of bardet, peraud , pinot, alaphillipe, etc get put under is insane

 

[Fortitude]

The guy absolutely demolished the league and was THE reason we won it and in such fashion. The hype was more than justified. Until 2 months ago he'd been the best player in the world and it wasn't close

The rewriting of his season has been fascinating to watch, especially so when there wasn't a peep out of these same people when he was running rampage and looking like a comic book character.

 

[JPRouve]

I wasn’t even thinking about football when it comes to French sports media and it’s chauvinism tbh.

When it comes to cycling, if a French guy can ride a bike well it gets ridiculous and the amount of pressure heaped on them is insane. When they don’t perform they get demolished and then also accuse every non French rider of doping.

The pressure the likes of bardet, peraud , pinot, alaphillipe, etc get put under is insane

That part isn't a thing and the insinuation is annoying.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

That part isn't a thing and the insinuation is annoying.

Do you watch cycling on French channels? Cause I mostly did (mainly due to the fact that back then Eurosport streams weren't a thing so had to get some dodgy stream in french)

Usually it was the likes of Virenque, Jalabert, Vasseur, Vayer, etc on this channel called France24 maybe?

"Attaque ala Cancellara Patenburg"
"Lance, Sors de ce corps"
"Lache les watts"
The commentators straight up laughing everytime Froome attacked with comments, "How is this man allowed to ride"
L'equipe put a massive frontpage of "7.25W/KG" which was meant to be what Froome did on Ventoux, only for Sky to publish the data and it was....5.8w/kg.
Almost everyone on Team Sky has had piss thrown on them, punched by fans during the race etc.
Everything from Cancellara's accusations of motor doping, to Froome/Sky, to Vingegaard/Pogacar's doping claims, all gained momentum from French media.

This only ever happens in France, at the tour de france or Dauphine. It never happens at the Giro/Vuelta, partly because of the absolute hatred the media stirs up.



(watch from 29:15)

 

[JPRouve]

Do you watch cycling on French channels? Cause I mostly did (mainly due to the fact that back then Eurosport streams weren't a thing so had to get some dodgy stream in french)

Usually it was the likes of Virenque, Jalabert, Vasseur, Vayer, etc on this channel called France24 maybe?

"Attaque ala Cancellara Patenburg"
"Lance, Sors de ce corps"
The commentators straight up laughing everytime Froome attacked with comments, "How is this man allowed to ride"
L'equipe put a massive frontpage of "7.25W/KG" which was meant to be what Froome did on Ventoux, only for Sky to publish the data and it was....5.8w/kg.
Almost everyone on Team Sky has had piss thrown on them, punched by fans during the race etc.
Everything from Cancellara's accusations of motor doping, to Froome/Sky, to Vingegaard/Pogacar's doping claims, all gained momentum from French media.

This only ever happens in France, at the tour de france or Dauphine. It never happens at the Giro/Vuelta, partly because of the absolute hatred the media stirs up.

Of course I watch french channels, i'm french. And read what you just wrote you do realize that Team Sky did cheat multiple times and that their data were suspiscious which has led to an inquiry from the british parliament and investigations from the UKAD?

The issue with your claim is that you pretend that it had anything to do with foreigners, in the case of Cancellara, it's Boonen a belgian that lost. Do french papers talk about doping? Absolutely but it has nothing to do with whether a french is winning or not. In fact Alaphilipe got the same questions in 2019.

 

[Alpha 1]

Everyone who scores a lot for his respective position will be overhyped, IMO. But Bellingham was excellent at the start of the season and to be fair I think he still plays very well. I think it is a testament to the maturing process he's been through at Madrid that he's not always trying the audacious and risky choices in order to create something but can also play a more quiet and complementary role. His bottom level is higher than it used to be for Dortmund. The goals will return eventually, goal streaks are sometimes a bit patchy.

For his position and the hype people don't exactly expect goals, they expect creativity, control of games, and a driving force from midfield. Goals would be a bonus. The truth is he hasn't played like a great midfielder that he is hyped to be. In the first half of the season, the goals (as goals always do) papered over everything else.

French media are at both extremes, they hype up everyone as the next Zidane, that's not really true for Saivet but Marvin Martin or Camel Meriem are funny examples for that. But they will also absolutely shit on you at the first opportunity especially if you are french, in general they don't care as much about foreigners in good or bad.

Neymar and Messi were given rough treatment by the French press. On the contrary, Mbappe has got relatively favourable treatment this season and last season despite being below par.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Of course I watch french channels, i'm french. And read what you just wrote you do realize that Team Sky did cheat multiple times and that their data were suspiscious which has led to an inquiry from the british parliament and investigations from the UKAD?

The issue with your claim is that you pretend that it had anything to do with foreigners, in the case of Cancellara, it's Boonen a belgian that lost. Do french papers talk about doping? Absolutely but it has nothing to do with whether a french is winning or not. In fact Alaphilipe got the same questions in 2019.

Froome 2013 was about 5 years before the UKAD claims that surfaced with Freeman during his time in BC. I'm sorry but how is it professional at all for commentators to make things like this?

Could you imagine Sky Sports accusing footballers of being geared up live during a match? Can you imagine Carlton Kirby doing the same on Eurosport?

Alaphilippe in 2019 was hailed as a hero, with only fringe cycling fans throwing up the question of, "how does a puncheur do well on long Alpine climbs".

Actually, I think everyone in cycling is doping, I just find it absolutely remarkable that the likes of Jalabert, Virenque, etc have the gall to accuse anyone of doping.

Actually, I do think that French media tends to ignore their own riders doping stuff. Groupama FDJ are treated like angels from their DS made a few open anti-doping statements.

The likes of AG2R have had some pretty dodgy DS' and doctors over the years but the likes of Bardet have gotten a free pass.

When French Media release things like this, where, by pure co-incidence all the non-french riders are considered the most suspicious and the French ones are the least, it's hard not to think there's a lot of bias here. Jalabert being mid tier on that list is insane when he was proved to be cheating by the French Senate investigation and him at his peak was like Peter Sagan and Nairo Quintana combined.

My point isn't that French media only accuse others of doping when their rider loses, it's they just seem to accuse other riders of doping/cheating if they're just really performing well - > Like the Boonen/Cancellara example you posted.
You used 2019 Juju as an example, sorry but the majority of the doping allegations were thrown towards his biggest competitor during the spring/ardennes classics - namely Fuglsang, despite alaphilippe consistently beating him. Alaphilippe clapping everyone race after race is fine, but Fuglsang being able to come close? Doping.

 

[JPRouve]

Froome 2013 was about 5 years before the UKAD claims that surfaced with Freeman during his time in BC. I'm sorry but how is it professional at all for commentators to make things like this?

Could you imagine Sky Sports accusing footballers of being geared up live during a match? Can you imagine Carlton Kirby doing the same on Eurosport?

Alaphilippe in 2019 was hailed as a hero, with only fringe cycling fans throwing up the question of, "how does a puncheur do well on long Alpine climbs".

Actually, I think everyone in cycling is doping, I just find it absolutely remarkable that the likes of Jalabert, Virenque, etc have the gall to accuse anyone of doping.

Actually, I do think that French media tends to ignore their own riders doping stuff. Groupama FDJ are treated like angels from their DS made a few open anti-doping statements.

The likes of AG2R have had some pretty dodgy DS' and doctors over the years but the likes of Bardet have gotten a free pass.

When French Media release things like this, where, by pure co-incidence all the non-french riders are considered the most suspicious and the French ones are the least, it's hard not to think there's a lot of bias here. Jalabert being mid tier on that list is insane when he was proved to be cheating by the French Senate investigation and him at his peak was like Peter Sagan and Nairo Quintana combined.

My point isn't that French media only accuse others of doping when their rider loses, it's they just seem to accuse other riders of doping/cheating if they're just really performing well - > Like the Boonen/Cancellara example you posted.
You used 2019 Juju as an example, sorry but the majority of the doping allegations were thrown towards his biggest competitor during the spring/ardennes classics - namely Fuglsang, despite alaphilippe consistently beating him. Alaphilippe clapping everyone race after race is fine, but Fuglsang being able to come close? Doping.

About the bolded part how? You do realize that all the cases make a lot of noise in France especially when it comes to french riders or teams?

No one is treated as an angel in France when it comes to cycling, media have made sure that everyone understand that doping is extremely common. In fact I should remind you that in the case of Jalabert it is a commission from the french senat that exposed his doping and L'Equipe and Le Monde are the ones who then investigated and dug even more dirt. As for Virenque his cheating ways were not only largely aired but his attempt at justifying it was mocked for years by Les Guignols, the same is true for Fignon.

Also the picture that you shared is a strange argument because only Lemond is considered "normal" everyone else performances is considered suspicious or worse and it makes sense since nearly everyone in that graph was actually doping.

 

[giorno]

Everyone in that graph was doping, let's be honest. Banning doping in cycling hasn't made sense since at least thr early 90s

Also Pantani nobody like him. Pogacar the closest thing which is why everyone loves him

 

[AfonsoAlves]

About the bolded part how? You do realize that all the cases make a lot of noise in France especially when it comes to french riders or teams?

No one is treated as an angel in France when it comes to cycling, media have made sure that everyone understand that doping is extremely common. In fact I should remind you that in the case of Jalabert it is a commission from the french senat that exposed his doping and L'Equipe and Le Monde are the ones who then investigated and dug even more dirt. As for Virenque his cheating ways were not only largely aired but his attempt at justifying it was mocked for years by Les Guignols, the same is true for Fignon.

Also the picture that you shared is a strange argument because only Lemond is considered "normal" everyone else performances is considered suspiscious or worse and it makes sense since nearly everyone in that graph was actually doping.

RE bolded: Yes, I even mentioned that in my post above.

It's not the "cases" that's the problem. It's the rampant speculation that causes immense toxicity at the tour de France.

There's a reason Sky were getting punched, piss thrown at, half a decade before anything really came out. French media were stirring the pot for the entire time.

This rampant speculation doesn't get thrown at French riders. Bardet, Pinot, Maduoas, Lenny Martinez, Paret-Peintre, Romain Gregore, Gaudu have completely escaped criticism in an era where everyones W/KG seemed to have gone up by 1 since covid.

I think we're talking about two different things, you seem to be talking about after something concrete has happened, i'm talking about French riders escaping wild doping speculation from the media.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Everyone in that graph was doping, let's be honest. Banning doping in cycling hasn't made sense since at least thr early 90s

Also Pantani nobody like him. Pogacar the closest thing which is why everyone loves him

I mean, Il Pirate was a legend. He was absolutely loved by most cycling fans.

He was doping, 100% doping, but he was loved because even with doping he was so fecking ridiculous.

Did you see the 2020 Giro Raisport Trailer ft Nibali, Pantani and all the greats?

It's hair raising stuff.

https://simonesalvador.it/televisio...rai-per-il-giro-ditalia-2020-ci-sono-nibali-e

 

[AfonsoAlves]

About the bolded part how? You do realize that all the cases make a lot of noise in France especially when it comes to french riders or teams?

No one is treated as an angel in France when it comes to cycling, media have made sure that everyone understand that doping is extremely common. In fact I should remind you that in the case of Jalabert it is a commission from the french senat that exposed his doping and L'Equipe and Le Monde are the ones who then investigated and dug even more dirt. As for Virenque his cheating ways were not only largely aired but his attempt at justifying it was mocked for years by Les Guignols, the same is true for Fignon.

Also the picture that you shared is a strange argument because only Lemond is considered "normal" everyone else performances is considered suspiscious or worse and it makes sense since nearly everyone in that graph was actually doping.

It's clearly an attempt to downplay French riders doping - I mean all of those got busted. Why is Froome, getting busted for Salbutamol after this graph was made, somehow a worse doper or "more suspicious" than Fignon who was on Ampethamines and god knows what, or Voeckler who was on a full fledged Europacar EPO program that resulted in their team getting suspended?

 

[criticalanalysis]

Came in to read about how good/shite Bellingham is.

Going away now to read an article after googling 'is doping normal in cycling?'.

Context: I have absolutely no interest in cycling at all.

 

[horsechoker]

Came in to read about how good/shite Bellingham is.

Going away now to read an article after googling 'is doping normal in cycling?'.

Context: I have absolutely no interest in cycling at all.

On your bike then!

 

[SilentWitness]

Been the worst player on the pitch tonight. Absolutely shite.

 

[E-mal]

It was ridiculous to even suggest he is at the same level with Vinicius as is suggested in some quarters

 

[Alpha 1]

There is absolutely nothing in his game to suggest he will a world beater that the press will have us believe. In this Real Madrid team, he is a passenger. Once the hype dies down, he doesn't make the first 11 for sure.

Only silver lining is his age; he has time on his side.