Juan Mata

[Jaybomb]

Excuse me mate but saying that Carrick has never been an elite player for me is very very far away from the truth. He has probably been the most underrated player we had for the last decade and he was the player that made our team tick and win everything the moment we bought him. United's lineup started with him week in and week out and I am talking about a team consisting of Ronaldo, Roooney, Ferdinand,etc.. Yes he was not sparking with some fabulous goals, dribbles, and so on but as I have already mentioned he just made everything tick. In my opinion he was one of our best and most important players during the last decade...

Moreover the things you are saying are completely farfetched. Mata played for Valencia mostly on the wing and produced the goods. He also played a lot of games for Chelsea on the wing even before Mou and he produced as well. He was faster, he was smarter and he had penetration. He could easily harm the opposition. The Mata of last two seasons was a complete shadow of his former self. He was very very weak. Exactly as Rooney was...

Btw I have not seen somebody here saying that Rooney must be a definite starter...

He's not underrated if everyone talks about how "underrated" he is. Not sure what you're watching but Carrick isn't at all responsible for our trophy wins. Scholes and Hargreaves were far more instrumental in our Champions League win in 2008. I'll give Carrick credit for his performances in 12/13. He got into the Team of the Season that year and rightfully so. But that was the only good season I've seen him have for us. And that was 4 years ago.

Just think... Scott Parker was in that Team of the Season aswell. And Spurs got rid of him pretty soon after.

I'm getting flashbacks to the time when we brought Scholes out of retirement instead of playing Pogba. Only this time, I fear that we're gonna sell Schneiderlin, a player who has been in the Team of the Season every year since Southampton got into the Premier League... to accommodate an aging Carrick. A guy who'll probably (hopefully) retire next season.

Ridiculous! Schweinsteiger was injured a lot but still one of the best centre mid of the five years? There are more centre mid is currently better than him! Schweinsteiger is clearly has been struggled with his fitness for the last three years. And also just because Schweinsteiger used to be a great player doesn't mean he will get into top European team right now, he's been injured all the time last season ffs. He couldn't even move Khedira away from starting eleven spot in Euro, if Gundogan wasn't injured Schweinsteiger won't be able replace the injury of Khedira against France and Italy. It will a massive gamble if there are any clubs who is willing to pay his wage 200k for an unfit player.

Carrick has never been an elite player? Well if you are England manager, I can see you will do the silly thing like Roy Hodgson, dropping Carrick and Drinkwater for Henderson and Wilshere.
Ask Xabi Alonso, what does he think about Carrick.
http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/liver...n-manchester-uniteds-michael-carrick-5380256/

Athletico won't pick him up!! It doesn't make any sense. Why would they want to pay £25m fees and £140k per week wage for a player who is clearly won't fit into their 442 formation.

Yeah there was a rumour for Barca as well last season but he would be bought as a bench warmer because he's not good enough to be top European team starter. Barca isn't interested anymore because they signed the replacement, Arda Turan.

For four years? 2 or 3 years ago, Rooney was the same age as Mata. So how can a 28 years old Mata won't be declined when clearly you just said Rooney has been declined for four years, and he was 28 in those four years. Mata has done nothing much in the last three years so to be fair this should be applied to Mata as well as he's been declined for three years. On top of that Mata also had his chance last season but together with Rooney as an experience player couldn't lead our attack and support the young players, and instead we rely on teenager like Martial and Rashford to support Mata and lead our attack how embarrassing is that? If we have Payet or Ozil or Griezmann in place of Mata, we would have done so much better don't you agree?

Mata was clearly got his games time enough as a CAM but at the end of the day he couldn't get the job done and is dropped to bench or right winger. Mata is a good player but not good enough to be top European team starter. He was a starter at Chelsea when they finished 5th and 3rd in the league. They had never try to compete the league in those two seasons but when Mourinho came and wanted to challenge the league, Mata was dropped and sold. You were overhyping Mata too much.

Carrick was never good enough to be starting for England. He's not Busquets, so I'm not sure why every fan seems to act like he is? He's easily replaceable, infact we already have two very solid replacements in the squad right now in Schneiderlin and Mensah who offer everything Carrick does and more. If we want to "cool the game off", then bring Bastian on.

Because ever since Mata signed for United, he's been a better player than Rooney has. He's scored in a ton of big games and that was out of position. Rooney is a passenger in the team nowadays. Mata can pop up with a goal or a brilliant assist. Anyone who watches and studies football can easily tell who the better player is. Look at how Mata controls the ball compared to Rooney. The only thing Rooney has on him is physicality. And even that seems to be gone these days.

In response to your Payet/Ozil/Griezmann argument, I disagree completely. All those guys would struggle in Van Gaal's system. They wouldn't be given the freedom to roam around and take risks. But despite all that, Mata still popped up with the goals. Ozil wouldn't have done as well under Van Gaal as Mata did. Mainly because Ozil hasn't got the "poacher instinct" that Mata has. Although Mata is wasted on the wing, Ozil would be much worse.

Chelsea won the Champions League, FA Cup and Europa League with Mata in the side. He even provided the assist in the Champions League final. So how come he's good enough to win the two biggest trophies in Europe and yet not good enough to win the Premier League? A league that Marc Albrighton just won?

 

[Dion]

Mensah and Schneiderlin could only dream of passing the ball the way Carrick does.

All in all that's one of the most baffling posts I've ever read.

 

[Mike09]

He's not underrated if everyone talks about how "underrated" he is. Not sure what you're watching but Carrick isn't at all responsible for our trophy wins. Scholes and Hargreaves were far more instrumental in our Champions League win in 2008. I'll give Carrick credit for his performances in 12/13. He got into the Team of the Season that year and rightfully so. But that was the only good season I've seen him have for us. And that was 4 years ago.

Just think... Scott Parker was in that Team of the Season aswell. And Spurs got rid of him pretty soon after.

I'm getting flashbacks to the time when we brought Scholes out of retirement instead of playing Pogba. Only this time, I fear that we're gonna sell Schneiderlin, a player who has been in the Team of the Season every year since Southampton got into the Premier League... to accommodate an aging Carrick. A guy who'll probably (hopefully) retire next season.


Carrick was never good enough to be starting for England. He's not Busquets, so I'm not sure why every fan seems to act like he is? He's easily replaceable, infact we already have two very solid replacements in the squad right now in Schneiderlin and Mensah who offer everything Carrick does and more. If we want to "cool the game off", then bring Bastian on.

Sometime I'm surprised how underachieved and underrated Carrick is, and there is still someone like you who still think that Carrick wasn't one of those guys who has been one of the key success for us to won all these trophies.
I already posted this, but I will post it again. Read what Xabi Alonso said about Carrick. It won't take you 5 minutes to read it and realise how much a similarity in you and England manager? A blessed with such a good midfielder like Carrick but prefer to use the clueless one like Gerrard or Parker or Henderson. How stupid it is.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/liver...n-manchester-uniteds-michael-carrick-5380256/

The fact that Mourinho offered a year extension contract to Carrick showed how he's not confident with Schweinsteiger and the rest of our midfield. Simply because they have been so poor and still relying on 35 years old.

Because ever since Mata signed for United, he's been a better player than Rooney has. He's scored in a ton of big games and that was out of position. Rooney is a passenger in the team nowadays. Mata can pop up with a goal or a brilliant assist. Anyone who watches and studies football can easily tell who the better player is. Look at how Mata controls the ball compared to Rooney. The only thing Rooney has on him is physicality. And even that seems to be gone these days.

In response to your Payet/Ozil/Griezmann argument, I disagree completely. All those guys would struggle in Van Gaal's system. They wouldn't be given the freedom to roam around and take risks. But despite all that, Mata still popped up with the goals. Ozil wouldn't have done as well under Van Gaal as Mata did. Mainly because Ozil hasn't got the "poacher instinct" that Mata has. Although Mata is wasted on the wing, Ozil would be much worse.

Chelsea won the Champions League, FA Cup and Europa League with Mata in the side. He even provided the assist in the Champions League final. So how come he's good enough to win the two biggest trophies in Europe and yet not good enough to win the Premier League? A league that Marc Albrighton just won?

He's been better? Based on goals? But Rooney did scored tons of big games when Mata was at this club. You are being biased on Mata and Rooney. I'm being fairly judge on both players that both of them have done nothing much different at all.

So Mata is better because of ball control? Rooney is stronger than Mata, quicker than Mata, offer more power and aggressively than Mata, put pressure on their opponent tightly more than Mata. I don't see why Mata is considered to be a good player based on "ball control" only.

If players like Payet, Ozil and Griezmann would struggle in LVG's system but why Martial and Rashford aren't? Simply because Mata isn't good enough to lead a team like Manchester United attackers. If Martial and Rashford can show a good performance in LVG's system, surely players like Payet, Ozil and Griezmann can show better. Don't try to compare Payet, Ozil and Griezmann with Mata mate. Different level.

Huh? Mata didn't even play all the important games of Chelsea in Champion League. If you watch Chelsea in that season the key of their winning in Champion League because how solid their defense were not because Mata's assist. But being solid in defense only but poor in attack doesn't mean you can win the league. Leagues and cup are two different style of competition. A club can win a cup by parking the bus but a club cannot win a league by parking the bus only. Mata was clearly dropped and sold by Mourinho when their expectation was to win the league because he's not good enough to lead the Chelsea attackers to win the league.

 

[Slavkov]

He's not underrated if everyone talks about how "underrated" he is. Not sure what you're watching but Carrick isn't at all responsible for our trophy wins. Scholes and Hargreaves were far more instrumental in our Champions League win in 2008. I'll give Carrick credit for his performances in 12/13. He got into the Team of the Season that year and rightfully so. But that was the only good season I've seen him have for us. And that was 4 years ago.

Just think... Scott Parker was in that Team of the Season aswell. And Spurs got rid of him pretty soon after.

I'm getting flashbacks to the time when we brought Scholes out of retirement instead of playing Pogba. Only this time, I fear that we're gonna sell Schneiderlin, a player who has been in the Team of the Season every year since Southampton got into the Premier League... to accommodate an aging Carrick. A guy who'll probably (hopefully) retire next season.


Carrick was never good enough to be starting for England. He's not Busquets, so I'm not sure why every fan seems to act like he is? He's easily replaceable, infact we already have two very solid replacements in the squad right now in Schneiderlin and Mensah who offer everything Carrick does and more. If we want to "cool the game off", then bring Bastian on.

Because ever since Mata signed for United, he's been a better player than Rooney has. He's scored in a ton of big games and that was out of position. Rooney is a passenger in the team nowadays. Mata can pop up with a goal or a brilliant assist. Anyone who watches and studies football can easily tell who the better player is. Look at how Mata controls the ball compared to Rooney. The only thing Rooney has on him is physicality. And even that seems to be gone these days.

In response to your Payet/Ozil/Griezmann argument, I disagree completely. All those guys would struggle in Van Gaal's system. They wouldn't be given the freedom to roam around and take risks. But despite all that, Mata still popped up with the goals. Ozil wouldn't have done as well under Van Gaal as Mata did. Mainly because Ozil hasn't got the "poacher instinct" that Mata has. Although Mata is wasted on the wing, Ozil would be much worse.

Chelsea won the Champions League, FA Cup and Europa League with Mata in the side. He even provided the assist in the Champions League final. So how come he's good enough to win the two biggest trophies in Europe and yet not good enough to win the Premier League? A league that Marc Albrighton just won?

Man from what you are saying it is quite obvious that you have hardly watched any United games in 2008. You are watching team of the season charts and making assumptions based on it...May I ask how was Hargreaves instrumental for our Champions league win in 2008? He did not start half of the games and when he started he was a wide midfielder most of the time. Carrick was our deep lying playmaker, every attack started with him, he has always made our team tick. Who can we replace him with???? Who can orchestrate our attacks? Their is a great shortage of this type of players.

As far as Mata is concerned I have no idea whether you watch football at all. He was awful during the last two seasons. I have watched him since the very beginning of his career and he does not look himself. He is too slow, his decision making is awful, etc. , etc. He is just tragic. He did not make one of the worst Spanish squads of alltime. Btw the assist in the final you are talking about was a corner . To answer your question, he is simply not good enough because he has waned in great proportions. He is just not the player he was. If you had watched him and not read some statistics you would have known. Mata spend the best part of his career on the wing, he even played on the left wing for Valencia...I watch football a lot and have been watching it a lot since 1990 and I can tell you that at the moment Mata is nowhere good enough to play for United. I cannot see anything to his game that resembles his past and if he cannot step up he just has no place here...

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree with everything you are saying. You are using some cliches and statistics but I think you did not even watch the games

 

[diarm]

One of the worst Spanish squads of all time

Spain could name 3 or 4 squads at the moment, and none of them would be their worst of all time!

 

[fellaini's barber]

Off topic but Carrick is massively overrated on this forum

 

[Slavkov]

One of the worst Spanish squads of all time

Spain could name 3 or 4 squads at the moment, and none of them would be their worst of all time!

Really? An attacking line of Aduriz, Lucas Vasquez, Morata, Nolito, and Pedro? In defense and midfield they were probably good on paper but the players I mentioned are far away from what is needed at this level... most of them are not even starters in their teams...

 

[United Pro]

Really? An attacking line of Aduriz, Lucas Vasquez, Morata, Nolito, and Pedro? In defense and midfield they were probably good on paper but the players I mentioned are far away from what is needed at this level... most of them are not even starters in their teams...

Tbf, just look at the players that weren't either in the first team, or weren't in the squad and you'd see how strong they are. I mean there were players not in the Spain squad, that would be star players at a lot of other countries.

 

[Slavkov]

Tbf, just look at the players that weren't either in the first team, or weren't in the squad and you'd see how strong they are. I mean there were players not in the Spain squad, that would be star players at a lot of other countries.

I absolutely agree on that

 

[Varun]

Man from what you are saying it is quite obvious that you have hardly watched any United games in 2008. You are watching team of the season charts and making assumptions based on it...May I ask how was Hargreaves instrumental for our Champions league win in 2008? He did not start half of the games and when he started he was a wide midfielder most of the time. Carrick was our deep lying playmaker, every attack started with him, he has always made our team tick. Who can we replace him with???? Who can orchestrate our attacks? Their is a great shortage of this type of players.

As far as Mata is concerned I have no idea whether you watch football at all. He was awful during the last two seasons. I have watched him since the very beginning of his career and he does not look himself. He is too slow, his decision making is awful, etc. , etc. He is just tragic. He did not make one of the worst Spanish squads of alltime. Btw the assist in the final you are talking about was a corner . To answer your question, he is simply not good enough because he has waned in great proportions. He is just not the player he was. If you had watched him and not read some statistics you would have known. Mata spend the best part of his career on the wing, he even played on the left wing for Valencia...I watch football a lot and have been watching it a lot since 1990 and I can tell you that at the moment Mata is nowhere good enough to play for United. I cannot see anything to his game that resembles his past and if he cannot step up he just has no place here...

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree with everything you are saying. You are using some cliches and statistics but I think you did not even watch the games

Discuss football without resorting to comments about the other poster not having watched football, doesn't understand football, etc etc.

 

[Slavkov]

Discuss football without resorting to comments about the other poster not having watched football, doesn't understand football, etc etc.

That is exactly what I am doing! I am just stating the facts and arriving at a simple conclusion...

 

[Varun]

That is exactly what I am doing! I am just stating the facts and arriving at a simple conclusion...

Man from what you are saying it is quite obvious that you have hardly watched any United games in 2008. You are watching team of the season charts and making assumptions based on it...May I ask how was Hargreaves instrumental for our Champions league win in 2008? He did not start half of the games and when he started he was a wide midfielder most of the time. Carrick was our deep lying playmaker, every attack started with him, he has always made our team tick. Who can we replace him with???? Who can orchestrate our attacks? Their is a great shortage of this type of players.

As far as Mata is concerned I have no idea whether you watch football at all. He was awful during the last two seasons. I have watched him since the very beginning of his career and he does not look himself. He is too slow, his decision making is awful, etc. , etc. He is just tragic. He did not make one of the worst Spanish squads of alltime. Btw the assist in the final you are talking about was a corner . To answer your question, he is simply not good enough because he has waned in great proportions. He is just not the player he was. If you had watched him and not read some statistics you would have known. Mata spend the best part of his career on the wing, he even played on the left wing for Valencia...I watch football a lot and have been watching it a lot since 1990 and I can tell you that at the moment Mata is nowhere good enough to play for United. I cannot see anything to his game that resembles his past and if he cannot step up he just has no place here...

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree with everything you are saying. You are using some cliches and statistics but I think you did not even watch the games

Don't arrive at stupid conclusions.

 

[Mike09]

Don't arrive at stupid conclusions.

I think you are the one who went to that stupid conclusion. Have a look at this one:

Because ever since Mata signed for United, he's been a better player than Rooney has. He's scored in a ton of big games and that was out of position. Rooney is a passenger in the team nowadays. Mata can pop up with a goal or a brilliant assist. Anyone who watches and studies football can easily tell who the better player is. Look at how Mata controls the ball compared to Rooney. The only thing Rooney has on him is physicality. And even that seems to be gone these days.

 

[Varun]

I think you are the one who went to that stupid conclusion. Have a look at this one:

Me missing an earlier poster doing it means I shouldn't ask someone else to do something similar? That makes sense to you?

 

[Slavkov]

I think you are the one who went to that stupid conclusion. Have a look at this one:

I do not want to argue with you and there is no point in that but which is the stupid conclusion I arrived at? This guy was walking about 2008 and Hargreaves and I stated the facts that anyone who watched that year knows. He was talking about Mata on the wing and I stated that he played on the wing 95% of the time for Valencia and he played a lot on the wing for Chelsea as well. I never argued anything about Mata and Rooney. For me they both are on the decline and in the worst form of their careers. I cannot remember Mata doing something important for our club because he has been here for our worst years since I have been watching football. I think Rooney should be sold as fast as we can. Nevertheless I remember Wazza contributing so much to our great club and deciding so many games and bringing so many trophies to this club. What do I remember of Mata? A sloppy equalizer agains Crystal Palace, a good goal against Liverpool and an equalizer against City. He has not decided a single game for us nor has he contributed immensely. And that for 40 million quid. Well, no thanks...

 

[Slavkov]

Me missing an earlier poster doing it means I shouldn't ask someone else to do something similar? That makes sense to you?

Excuse me mate but I have no idea what you are trying to say or trying to ask me. Can you please be more precise? Thanks in advance...

 

[Mike09]

I do not want to argue with you and there is no point in that but which is the stupid conclusion I arrived at? This guy was walking about 2008 and Hargreaves and I stated the facts that anyone who watched that year knows. He was talking about Mata on the wing and I stated that he played on the wing 95% of the time for Valencia and he played a lot on the wing for Chelsea as well. I never argued anything about Mata and Rooney. For me they both are on the decline and in the worst form of their careers. I cannot remember Mata doing something important for our club because he has been here for our worst years since I have been watching football. I think Rooney should be sold as fast as we can. Nevertheless I remember Wazza contributing so much to our great club and deciding so many games and bringing so many trophies to this club. What do I remember of Mata? A sloppy equalizer agains Crystal Palace, a good goal against Liverpool and an equalizer against City. He has not decided a single game for us nor has he contributed immensely. And that for 40 million quid. Well, no thanks...

Talk to @Varun
He's the one who has an issue with your conclusion not me.

 

[2mufc0]

I do not want to argue with you and there is no point in that but which is the stupid conclusion I arrived at? This guy was walking about 2008 and Hargreaves and I stated the facts that anyone who watched that year knows. He was talking about Mata on the wing and I stated that he played on the wing 95% of the time for Valencia and he played a lot on the wing for Chelsea as well. I never argued anything about Mata and Rooney. For me they both are on the decline and in the worst form of their careers. I cannot remember Mata doing something important for our club because he has been here for our worst years since I have been watching football. I think Rooney should be sold as fast as we can. Nevertheless I remember Wazza contributing so much to our great club and deciding so many games and bringing so many trophies to this club. What do I remember of Mata? A sloppy equalizer agains Crystal Palace, a good goal against Liverpool and an equalizer against City. He has not decided a single game for us nor has he contributed immensely. And that for 40 million quid. Well, no thanks...

I agree Mata hasn't been great for us but he hasn't been as bad as you are making him out to be, he's scored some decisive goals for us and has shown quality at times, that's what he's actually known for. One of his biggest criticisms are that he only scores goals and provides assists and offers nothing else. I would like to see him play in a confident, flowing attacking team.

 

[Varun]

Excuse me mate but I have no idea what you are trying to say or trying to ask me. Can you please be more precise? Thanks in advance...

When you're discussing football with any poster, don't diss on his opinion saying things like the parts of your post I've bolded.

 

[Slavkov]

Talk to @Varun
He's the one who has an issue with your conclusion not me.

Sry mate, I misquoted

 

[Slavkov]

When you're discussing football with any poster, don't diss on his opinion saying things like the parts of your post I've bolded.

First of all, mate please do not tell me what to post, and secondly the part you have underlined does not belong to my post. It was posted by him. I think that this discussion has run out. Thanks for your opinion and enjoy the game...it starts in 40 minutes' time...

 

[Varun]

First of all, mate please do not tell me what to post, and secondly the part you have underlined does not belong to my post. It was posted by him. I think that this discussion has run out. Thanks for your opinion and enjoy the game...it starts in 40 minutes' time...

You are on a forum which has various rules and expectations regarding content of the post. Dissing on a poster the way you did is not acceptable. Now, I've quoted you and pointed it out without resorting to warning points so that you can sort it out. If a warning point is what's needed to get the message across, tell me and it'll be done.
Lastly, I quoted and bolded parts of your own post which makes it impossible for it to not belong to your post.

 

[Speak]

If Mata stays, he will work his way into the starting 11. He always does. Van Gaal benched him at the beginning and he changed his mind about him. He's improved on his defensive side ever since joining United. Like I said before, I've seen him track back, slide tackle and even do a few goal line clearances for us. He's a much more "complete" player now than he was at Chelsea. Personally, I think we should give him a free role in the CAM position. Let everyone else stick to the tactics and build the team around him. On form, he is absolutely world class. And it's a waste to be playing him on the right every time.

Build a team around Mata, who's never had a top team built around him.
Right... How many top teams are built around players (attacking midfielders, no less) who struggle to keep hold of the ball under pressure, can't dribble, can be forced into surrendering possession/passing backwards, and go missing?

His form for Chelsea (which people always refer to) was when he spent half his time wide with Oscar central. So that excuse doesn't work.

 

[Jaybomb]

Sometime I'm surprised how underachieved and underrated Carrick is, and there is still someone like you who still think that Carrick wasn't one of those guys who has been one of the key success for us to won all these trophies.
I already posted this, but I will post it again. Read what Xabi Alonso said about Carrick. It won't take you 5 minutes to read it and realise how much a similarity in you and England manager? A blessed with such a good midfielder like Carrick but prefer to use the clueless one like Gerrard or Parker or Henderson. How stupid it is.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/liver...n-manchester-uniteds-michael-carrick-5380256/

The fact that Mourinho offered a year extension contract to Carrick showed how he's not confident with Schweinsteiger and the rest of our midfield. Simply because they have been so poor and still relying on 35 years old.



He's been better? Based on goals? But Rooney did scored tons of big games when Mata was at this club. You are being biased on Mata and Rooney. I'm being fairly judge on both players that both of them have done nothing much different at all.

So Mata is better because of ball control? Rooney is stronger than Mata, quicker than Mata, offer more power and aggressively than Mata, put pressure on their opponent tightly more than Mata. I don't see why Mata is considered to be a good player based on "ball control" only.

If players like Payet, Ozil and Griezmann would struggle in LVG's system but why Martial and Rashford aren't? Simply because Mata isn't good enough to lead a team like Manchester United attackers. If Martial and Rashford can show a good performance in LVG's system, surely players like Payet, Ozil and Griezmann can show better. Don't try to compare Payet, Ozil and Griezmann with Mata mate. Different level.

Huh? Mata didn't even play all the important games of Chelsea in Champion League. If you watch Chelsea in that season the key of their winning in Champion League because how solid their defense were not because Mata's assist. But being solid in defense only but poor in attack doesn't mean you can win the league. Leagues and cup are two different style of competition. A club can win a cup by parking the bus but a club cannot win a league by parking the bus only. Mata was clearly dropped and sold by Mourinho when their expectation was to win the league because he's not good enough to lead the Chelsea attackers to win the league.

Mourinho only offered Carrick that extension due to longevity. Nothing to do with "Oh he thinks he's better than Schweinsteiger", that is madness to even suggest.

It's not just the ball control. Mata's passing, close control, first touch and build up play is so much better than Rooney. Everyone raves on about how good the likes of Ozil, Silva, etc are but yet we have one of those players and we're too busy putting a striker in that position and wondering why there's no free flowing football or creativity going on? I don't get it.

And Mata was Chelsea's player of the season the two seasons he was there. He won that award over Drogba, Lampard, Hazard and all their defenders. So how can you say he wasn't instrumental in those 2 seasons where they won back to back European titles and an FA Cup? You're basing it all around Jose selling him. The truth is, Oscar was more suited as the CAM for Mourinho's system. It had nothing to do with Mata not being good enough to win the league. It was purely to do with the system. Mata requested the transfer. The possibility of him working his way into the team and changing Mourinho's mind was there. But he chose to join us. That's a fact.

 

[sullydnl]

Two points:

1. We should not build a team around Mata. He has never proven to be good enough for that to be worthwhile.

2. We should not sell Mata. He has never proven to be poor enough for that to be worthwhile.

That's about the height of it. I know there are no "right" opinions but even still, that's the right opinion.

 

[Mike09]

Mourinho only offered Carrick that extension due to longevity. Nothing to do with "Oh he thinks he's better than Schweinsteiger", that is madness to even suggest.

Hold it there. When did I say Carrick is better than Schweinsteiger on this thread?

All I said is The fact that Mourinho offered a year extension contract to Carrick showed how he's not confident with Schweinsteiger and the rest of our midfield. Simply because they have been so poor and still relying on 35 years old.

I will call it madness if a world class manager like Mourinho decides to offer a contract to a player only because longevity. Longevity is also one of the reason but it's not the only factor. Manager won't give a contract to a player if he thinks he can't perform for his team anymore. Example is Frank Lampard didn't get an extension contract when Fabregas arrived.

It's not just the ball control. Mata's passing, close control, first touch and build up play is so much better than Rooney. Everyone raves on about how good the likes of Ozil, Silva, etc are but yet we have one of those players and we're too busy putting a striker in that position and wondering why there's no free flowing football or creativity going on? I don't get it.

And Mata was Chelsea's player of the season the two seasons he was there. He won that award over Drogba, Lampard, Hazard and all their defenders. So how can you say he wasn't instrumental in those 2 seasons where they won back to back European titles and an FA Cup? You're basing it all around Jose selling him. The truth is, Oscar was more suited as the CAM for Mourinho's system. It had nothing to do with Mata not being good enough to win the league. It was purely to do with the system. Mata requested the transfer. The possibility of him working his way into the team and changing Mourinho's mind was there. But he chose to join us. That's a fact.

Let's point this.

• What makes his passing better than Rooney? Rooney is also a good passer.
• Close control is considered to be a ball control but Mata's close control is useless without pace and physical attribute. No point to have a close control if you can't dribble and offer no pace to beat men like Messi and Martial.
• Build up play? No he can't. He always go invisible and need great players around him. If he can build up play, we wouldn't have any problem when we build a team around him last season, see what instead of stepping up and support our youngster we relied on Martial and Rashford to support the senior like Rooney and Mata. That's embarrassing. He's nowhere near world class or good enough to build a team around. He doesn't have any of pace, power and physical attribute. You look at players who is built a team around in top team, they at least have one of those aspect.
• What Mata has done in these last 3 seasons to make him as good as Ozil, Griezmann, Silva, Payet, etc? And now you are complaining with strikers. Just to let you know Griezmann, Ozil, Payet have worse ones (Torres, Giroud, Carroll) but the three of them are able to help these worse strikers to score goals. Get it now. It's amaze me how can you not see the difference of their level.
• They won Champion League because of the parking the bus system full credit to their defenders. I'm surprised how you didn't know this. You said Mata was influenced because of his assist in final? Mate that was just one game and the assist came from corner kick. Won player of the season because they finished 5th and 3rd on the league. Well yeah sums up why Mourinho dropped him when he came because he doesn't think Mata is good enough in his starting eleven to challenge the league.

 

[VP89]

Two points:

1. We should not build a team around Mata. He has never proven to be good enough for that to be worthwhile.

2. We should not sell Mata. He has never proven to be poor enough for that to be worthwhile.

That's about the height of it. I know there are no "right" opinions but even still, that's the right opinion.

Pretty much this. I think mourinho has eluded to the same conclusion too, and Mata to his credit seems to accept he will need to fight for a place, and wants to fight for it.

 

[Kill 'em all]

We have a lot of fixtures and a single player won't be able to play every game. Mata will get a lot of games. Selling Mata would be stupid as he's our only other CAM/No. 10 option other than Rooney seeing as Mkhitaryan will probably be played as a RW.

 

[AndyJ1985]

He's no where near world class or good enough to build a team around, or even to be a starter in the majority of games. But a point I've made before is we have worse players (Depay and Lingard) who should be shipped out before Mata, otherwise we're just weakening the squad. It seems he's okay with staying and being a squad player and fighting for his place, so there's no need to get rid this summer. Wait until January or next year when we can bring in more reinforcements.

 

[Jaybomb]

Hold it there. When did I say Carrick is better than Schweinsteiger on this thread?

All I said is The fact that Mourinho offered a year extension contract to Carrick showed how he's not confident with Schweinsteiger and the rest of our midfield. Simply because they have been so poor and still relying on 35 years old.

I will call it madness if a world class manager like Mourinho decides to offer a contract to a player only because longevity. Longevity is also one of the reason but it's not the only factor. Manager won't give a contract to a player if he thinks he can't perform for his team anymore. Example is Frank Lampard didn't get an extension contract when Fabregas arrived.



Let's point this.

• What makes his passing better than Rooney? Rooney is also a good passer.
• Close control is considered to be a ball control but Mata's close control is useless without pace and physical attribute. No point to have a close control if you can't dribble and offer no pace to beat men like Messi and Martial.
• Build up play? No he can't. He always go invisible and need great players around him. If he can build up play, we wouldn't have any problem when we build a team around him last season, see what instead of stepping up and support our youngster we relied on Martial and Rashford to support the senior like Rooney and Mata. That's embarrassing. He's nowhere near world class or good enough to build a team around. He doesn't have any of pace, power and physical attribute. You look at players who is built a team around in top team, they at least have one of those aspect.
• What Mata has done in these last 3 seasons to make him as good as Ozil, Griezmann, Silva, Payet, etc? And now you are complaining with strikers. Just to let you know Griezmann, Ozil, Payet have worse ones (Torres, Giroud, Carroll) but the three of them are able to help these worse strikers to score goals. Get it now. It's amaze me how can you not see the difference of their level.
• They won Champion League because of the parking the bus system full credit to their defenders. I'm surprised how you didn't know this. You said Mata was influenced because of his assist in final? Mate that was just one game and the assist came from corner kick. Won player of the season because they finished 5th and 3rd on the league. Well yeah sums up why Mourinho dropped him when he came because he doesn't think Mata is good enough in his starting eleven to challenge the league.

You're suggesting that Jose thinks Carrick is better than Schweinsteiger. That in itself, is madness.

You can't compare the situation to Lampard. Mourinho knows Chelsea and the dressing room. He wants Carrick around because he's new to United and Carrick has been there for 10 years. Remember when LVG made Fletcher vice captain? And then sold him like 6 months after?

Rooney is a terrible passer. He has one pass in his locker and that's the Hollywood ball to the wing.

Mata can do killer passes in tight situations and is overall better if you want to see beautiful free flowing football in the final third. Rooney is clunky and has a terrible first touch. This is and should be obvious to anyone who's watching United regularly.

How does Ozil have pace, power and physicality? Mourinho built the team around him at Madrid. He was the one controlling things in the attack.

We should sell Smalling by that logic. He got into the Team of the Season this year, but we finished 5th. So it doesn't count, right? What about Payet, I didn't see West Ham winning the league this season, so I guess his Team of the Season doesn't count either? You're contradicting yourself. By your logic, we shouldn't even be looking at guys like Payet and Ozil cause obviously they're not good enough to win the league like Mata wasn't.

 

[Mike09]

You're suggesting that Jose thinks Carrick is better than Schweinsteiger. That in itself, is madness.

Excuse me? When did I say that? Do I need to repeat this for third time? Surely you can read right. So I will leave it to you.

You can't compare the situation to Lampard. Mourinho knows Chelsea and the dressing room. He wants Carrick around because he's new to United and Carrick has been there for 10 years. Remember when LVG made Fletcher vice captain? And then sold him like 6 months after?

The Chelsea dressing room is clearly totally different compared to 2007. It's madness to extend a contract if a player isn't good enough especially with 80k per week. Making a player captain and vice captain is obviously different with contract.

What even madness is if someone doesn't realise how poor Schweinsteiger was last season and thinks him and Mata will make a starting eleven world class.

Let's face it! Schweinsteiger has clearly done nothing much last season, not the same player as before, been unfit since start of season and spending his time with injury. As much as I like him and prefer him ahead of Fellaini and Herrera, he is not the same player as before. Unfit!! This is why Mourinho isn't confident with him. We will see if I'm talking the truth in upcoming weeks or months. Let's see if Schweinsteiger will make an impact or even staying.
Sorry mate, I don't see a player who has been spending his best career as a no8 all of sudden can make any difference with Carrick as a no6.

Rooney is a terrible passer. He has one pass in his locker and that's the Hollywood ball to the wing.

Well, not really. Rooney can also make a killer pass not just to the wing.

Mata can do killer passes in tight situations and is overall better if you want to see beautiful free flowing football in the final third. Rooney is clunky and has a terrible first touch. This is and should be obvious to anyone who's watching United regularly.

• If Mata can do killer pass in a tight situation, he would be Mourinho's no8. In fact is he couldn't do it consistently just like Rooney.
• Rooney first touch is terrible but it's not like Mata's first touch and ball control is any useful if he lacks of physical attribute to hold the ball, lack of pace and power to beat his men. For example you won't see Mata dribbling beat 4 men and made a quality cross in a tight spot like what Rooney did when he gave an assist to Mata in final FA. First touch might be worse but the playing style is useful. Sorry mate, I just don't see any different if we play Mata or Rooney in that no 10 role.
• I watched United regularly, and I even download the matches to watch them second time each of them and I know how poor both Rooney and Mata were last season.

How does Ozil have pace, power and physicality? Mourinho built the team around him at Madrid. He was the one controlling things in the attack.

As a midfielder Ozil isn't that slow, as slow as he is or as weak as he is. Ozil is still quicker than Mata and stronger than Mata. Unfortunately it's true. The same thing as Rooney, Rooney is bloody slow but he's still quicker than Mata. Show how weak and slow Mata is.

We should sell Smalling by that logic. He got into the Team of the Season this year, but we finished 5th. So it doesn't count, right? What about Payet, I didn't see West Ham winning the league this season, so I guess his Team of the Season doesn't count either? You're contradicting yourself.

• You don't understand or just playing dumb with me? We finished 5th but were tight in first place as the best defensively with Spurs. And you are telling me we should sell Smalling because of my logic? We finished 5th not because Smalling or we were the best in defense but because we were poor in creating chance and offensively. Chelsea won Champion league because of their solid defense and park the bus. How hard to understand this?
• Funny how are you trying to argue with me by using Payet who played West Ham with Carroll and worse defenders compare to Chelsea when they won CL and became France second best player in Euro16. You are wasting my time if you can't see the difference what Payet did with what Mata did last season. I'll take Payet 100% over Mata right now.
• I'm sorry to say this but your post is getting ridiculous now. Try to talk some sense if you still want to discuss this. You are avoiding every fact I said on my previous posts and starting to make some biased argument.

 

[jem]

Some of the back and forths on this page have been the chat-room equivalent of the wrestling match in Borat.

 

[itso 7]

Pretty much this. I think mourinho has eluded to the same conclusion too, and Mata to his credit seems to accept he will need to fight for a place, and wants to fight for it.

Agree with that and I respect Mata for wanting to fight for his place. In fact bar two or three players who guarantee us top class performances - De Gea, Martial and Smalling - all the rest deserve to be promided is a fair fight, I mean a guarantee that should they perform they will play. Giving players privileges and 'plays when fit' status create complacency amongst the beneficiaries and demotivates those left out.

 

[Sammyjunn]

What does he do in training? Has got to be one of the most unatlethic sportsmen in the world, he's so slow and weak it's unreal. I watched him past Saturday and was astonished when he was "running", very difficult to play counter football with him.

 

[sullydnl]

What does he do in training? Has got to be one of the most unatlethic sportsmen in the world, he's so slow and weak it's unreal. I watched him past Saturday and was astonished when he was "running", very difficult to play counter football with him.

He rarely gets injured so he must be doing something to stay fit.

 

[buckooo1978]

Mourinho only offered Carrick that extension due to longevity. Nothing to do with "Oh he thinks he's better than Schweinsteiger", that is madness to even suggest

Based on last season Carrick was comfortably better and more useful than Schweinsteiger

Carrick was our best midfield player last season

 

[Jaybomb]

Excuse me? When did I say that? Do I need to repeat this for third time? Surely you can read right. So I will leave it to you.



The Chelsea dressing room is clearly totally different compared to 2007. It's madness to extend a contract if a player isn't good enough especially with 80k per week. Making a player captain and vice captain is obviously different with contract.

What even madness is if someone doesn't realise how poor Schweinsteiger was last season and thinks him and Mata will make a starting eleven world class.

Let's face it! Schweinsteiger has clearly done nothing much last season, not the same player as before, been unfit since start of season and spending his time with injury. As much as I like him and prefer him ahead of Fellaini and Herrera, he is not the same player as before. Unfit!! This is why Mourinho isn't confident with him. We will see if I'm talking the truth in upcoming weeks or months. Let's see if Schweinsteiger will make an impact or even staying.
Sorry mate, I don't see a player who has been spending his best career as a no8 all of sudden can make any difference with Carrick as a no6.


Well, not really. Rooney can also make a killer pass not just to the wing.

• If Mata can do killer pass in a tight situation, he would be Mourinho's no8. In fact is he couldn't do it consistently just like Rooney.
• Rooney first touch is terrible but it's not like Mata's first touch and ball control is any useful if he lacks of physical attribute to hold the ball, lack of pace and power to beat his men. For example you won't see Mata dribbling beat 4 men and made a quality cross in a tight spot like what Rooney did when he gave an assist to Mata in final FA. First touch might be worse but the playing style is useful. Sorry mate, I just don't see any different if we play Mata or Rooney in that no 10 role.
• I watched United regularly, and I even download the matches to watch them second time each of them and I know how poor both Rooney and Mata were last season.

As a midfielder Ozil isn't that slow, as slow as he is or as weak as he is. Ozil is still quicker than Mata and stronger than Mata. Unfortunately it's true. The same thing as Rooney, Rooney is bloody slow but he's still quicker than Mata. Show how weak and slow Mata is.

• You don't understand or just playing dumb with me? We finished 5th but were tight in first place as the best defensively with Spurs. And you are telling me we should sell Smalling because of my logic? We finished 5th not because Smalling or we were the best in defense but because we were poor in creating chance and offensively. Chelsea won Champion league because of their solid defense and park the bus. How hard to understand this?
• Funny how are you trying to argue with me by using Payet who played West Ham with Carroll and worse defenders compare to Chelsea when they won CL and became France second best player in Euro16. You are wasting my time if you can't see the difference what Payet did with what Mata did last season. I'll take Payet 100% over Mata right now.
• I'm sorry to say this but your post is getting ridiculous now. Try to talk some sense if you still want to discuss this. You are avoiding every fact I said on my previous posts and starting to make some biased argument.

So explain to me why he would he "trust" Carrick over Bastian then? Carrick can barely even start for England, let alone captain them to a World Cup victory. The only thing I can see is that Bastian gets injured a bit. But even so, Carrick gets injured aswell. If we want to be an elite side, we need to play the likes of Schweinsteiger, not Carrick. LVG apparently didn't get the memo when he started playing Ashley Young over Di Maria. Look where that got us. If Schweinsteiger went to a Juventus or a PSG, he would be playing every game. You think those teams wouldn't play Michael Carrick over him? Of course not. That's why those sides are better than us. They don't settle for mediocrity. And like it or not, that's what we've been doing for quite some time now.

Moving onto Mata... he's actually good at keeping the ball, so I'm not sure where this stigma comes from? He's comfortable in possession. It's funny cause Rooney's usually the one who's making poor decisions and terrible passes. Although LVG had a very strict system which offered very little risk or creativity, Mata is good at playing it safe and that's one of the reasons why LVG always played him.

You're the one who's talking no sense. So Mata can't win a Premier League with Chelsea, which by your own words were a very bad team at the time. So your solution is to sign a player like Payet, a guy who also can't win a Premier League with a "bad team", how does that make sense? You can say "West Ham would never win the league" but that didn't stop the likes of Mahrez from doing it with Leicester. If you're gonna say "Sign Mahrez and sell Mata", fair enough. But Payet is literally in the Mata at Chelsea boat in terms of being the "star" of a mid-table team. The difference is, Mata has won things at Chelsea while being the star. And he scored in the FA Cup final for us, didn't he?

You're giving Chelsea's defence too much credit. They had Bosingwa, Cahill and David Luiz at the back. None of those guys are rated by the Caf.

Based on last season Carrick was comfortably better and more useful than Schweinsteiger

Carrick was our best midfield player last season

Based on what? He did a job but he hardly set the world on fire. Herrera, Fellaini and Schneiderlin all had good bits. I can't think of anything Carrick did. He was awful in a few games, particularly the Arsenal one where we got battered.

I'm sure someone will probably come along and say "If you watch the game, you don't see Carrick. But if you watch Carrick, you see the game" or some other rubbish Carrick is not Busquets or Alonso. Not even close. He's outstayed his welcome in my opinion and I don't think he deserved to stay on past the FA Cup win. That was the perfect send off for him.

 

[Mike09]

So explain to me why he would he "trust" Carrick over Bastian then? Carrick can barely even start for England, let alone captain them to a World Cup victory. The only thing I can see is that Bastian gets injured a bit. But even so, Carrick gets injured aswell. If we want to be an elite side, we need to play the likes of Schweinsteiger, not Carrick. LVG apparently didn't get the memo when he started playing Ashley Young over Di Maria. Look where that got us. If Schweinsteiger went to a Juventus or a PSG, he would be playing every game. You think those teams wouldn't play Michael Carrick over him? Of course not. That's why those sides are better than us. They don't settle for mediocrity. And like it or not, that's what we've been doing for quite some time now.

Have you ever read my post? You kept making a false statement and avoiding all the facts that I have been posting.
You are the one who said Schweinsteiger over Carrick. I never said Carrick over Schweinsteiger. When did I say that? All I have been saying is even if you switch Schweinsteiger to Carrick from your (cough cough*) world class starting eleven it won't make any difference at least he offers more defensively. Schweinsteiger has done nothing at all last season, been unfit since the start of season and spent more than 60% of his time with injury last season.

Again, how many times do I need to say this. Do you even read mate? You remind me of England manager, stupid enough not to choose a good midfielder when he is available. You clearly didn't read what Alonso said. I told you to read and it won't take you more than 3 mins. if you read, you don't even need to argue with me about England and Carrick. It's better spend 3 min to read than spend 3 min to post a crap.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/liver...n-manchester-uniteds-michael-carrick-5380256/

The current Schweinsteiger will be playing every games at Juventus and PSG? Alright, PSG plays in ligue 1 mate. Don't compare ligue 1 and EPL way too far different level. As for Juventus, he can't even start ahead of Khedira what makes you think he will play every games at Juventus? and that's if he can stay fit as well.

Moving onto Mata... he's actually good at keeping the ball, so I'm not sure where this stigma comes from? He's comfortable in possession. It's funny cause Rooney's usually the one who's making poor decisions and terrible passes. Although LVG had a very strict system which offered very little risk or creativity, Mata is good at playing it safe and that's one of the reasons why LVG always played him.

You're the one who's talking no sense. So Mata can't win a Premier League with Chelsea, which by your own words were a very bad team at the time. So your solution is to sign a player like Payet, a guy who also can't win a Premier League with a "bad team", how does that make sense? You can say "West Ham would never win the league" but that didn't stop the likes of Mahrez from doing it with Leicester. If you're gonna say "Sign Mahrez and sell Mata", fair enough. But Payet is literally in the Mata at Chelsea boat in terms of being the "star" of a mid-table team. The difference is, Mata has won things at Chelsea while being the star. And he scored in the FA Cup final for us, didn't he?

You're giving Chelsea's defence too much credit. They had Bosingwa, Cahill and David Luiz at the back. None of those guys are rated by the Caf.

• Good keeping the ball by passing the ball backward and simple pass. But when he hold the ball and try to utilise his close control he couldn't do it because he will get outmuscled and outpaced and end up losing the ball.
• You are the one who talk nonsense, you said Mata can make midfield looks the most top class. You don't build a team around Mata if the expectation is to win the league. Clearly Jose has the same opinion as me.
• So sell Mata and sign Mahrez is fair enough. But when I mentioned Griezmann, Ozil and Muller, you thought they are on the similar level. LOL
• How can you still argue about Payet. Payet is a no10 role who played with Carroll not Vardy not Rashford not Martial. Look at what happen when he plays with France? He's not a winger but he still starts ahead of Martial on the left wing. And Martial was our best player alongside De Gea and Smalling last season. Payet would have done much better than what Mata did last season if he's in our team.
• Where is Ivanovic, Terry and Cole on that list? If you watch the games you should know Chelsea was parking the bus and being solid in their defense. Barcelona couldn't even break through their defense.

 

[PieCrust]

Two points:

1. We should not build a team around Mata. He has never proven to be good enough for that to be worthwhile.

2. We should not sell Mata. He has never proven to be poor enough for that to be worthwhile.

That's about the height of it. I know there are no "right" opinions but even still, that's the right opinion.

This is the right opinion.

 

[Jaybomb]

Have you ever read my post? You kept making a false statement and avoiding all the facts that I have been posting.
You are the one who said Schweinsteiger over Carrick. I never said Carrick over Schweinsteiger. When did I say that? All I have been saying is even if you switch Schweinsteiger to Carrick from your (cough cough*) world class starting eleven it won't make any difference at least he offers more defensively. Schweinsteiger has done nothing at all last season, been unfit since the start of season and spent more than 60% of his time with injury last season.

Again, how many times do I need to say this. Do you even read mate? You remind me of England manager, stupid enough not to choose a good midfielder when he is available. You clearly didn't read what Alonso said. I told you to read and it won't take you more than 3 mins. if you read, you don't even need to argue with me about England and Carrick. It's better spend 3 min to read than spend 3 min to post a crap.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/liver...n-manchester-uniteds-michael-carrick-5380256/

The current Schweinsteiger will be playing every games at Juventus and PSG? Alright, PSG plays in ligue 1 mate. Don't compare ligue 1 and EPL way too far different level. As for Juventus, he can't even start ahead of Khedira what makes you think he will play every games at Juventus? and that's if he can stay fit as well.

• Good keeping the ball by passing the ball backward and simple pass. But when he hold the ball and try to utilise his close control he couldn't do it because he will get outmuscled and outpaced and end up losing the ball.
• You are the one who talk nonsense, you said Mata can make midfield looks the most top class. You don't build a team around Mata if the expectation is to win the league. Clearly Jose has the same opinion as me.
• So sell Mata and sign Mahrez is fair enough. But when I mentioned Griezmann, Ozil and Muller, you thought they are on the similar level. LOL
• How can you still argue about Payet. Payet is a no10 role who played with Carroll not Vardy not Rashford not Martial. Look at what happen when he plays with France? He's not a winger but he still starts ahead of Martial on the left wing. And Martial was our best player alongside De Gea and Smalling last season. Payet would have done much better than what Mata did last season if he's in our team.
• Where is Ivanovic, Terry and Cole on that list? If you watch the games you should know Chelsea was parking the bus and being solid in their defense. Barcelona couldn't even break through their defense.

Except Carrick ISN'T better than Bastian defensively... in any way shape or form. Bastian is better at intercepting and tackling, as well as distribution. So I'm not sure where you've got this opinion from.

Why are you keep bringing Xabi Alonso's opinion up like it somehow validates your opinion? Sir Alex Ferguson is one of the greatest minds the game has ever seen and he's gone on record saying that Phil Jones is the next Duncan Edwards. He's also responsible for hiring Moyes... nuff said.

There's plenty of top players in Ligue 1. And not just from PSG... Lacazette, Valbuena, Diarra... plus your dream signing Payet came from Ligue 1 last season, didn't he?

• Any evidence of this? I've rarely ever seen Mata lose possession and cost us a goal. I think you're making assumptions because he's not a strong tall physical player. He's more than capable of keeping possession.
• Your logic for not playing Mata is because he couldn't win the league with Chelsea. That's what it all comes down to. Ozil is the star man at Arsenal and they haven't won the league. Who's to say their aspirations aren't too low? Maybe they should sell Ozil like Chelsea sold Mata and buy a more defensive physical CAM. You said Jose was right to do it before, so maybe Wenger will be too! Right?
• Ivanovic and Terry didn't play in the final. Bosingwa/Luiz/Bertrand did. And Luiz was outstanding in the final. One of the main reasons Chelsea won it. But you can't take away from Mata's contribution. Like it or not, he found Drogba with that header.