Juan Mata

He has a great end product but everything before that is mediocre to poor. He's the sort of player you can literally man-mark out of a game entirely. And his contribution off the ball is close to zero.

Having said that he's a top tier back-up. So long as when he plays he isn't stuck out on the right flank with only Antonio "backpass" Valencia for company.

I think he'd walk into a Leicester starting eleven, personally. Especially if Mahrez leaves. Otherwise I'd have him playing behind Vardy with Mahrez and King/Albrighton on the flanks.

Not so much Tottenham, I wouldn't start him over Eriksen or Alli.
 
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hobbers said:
He has a great end product but everything before that is mediocre to poor. He's the sort of player you can literally man-mark out of a game entirely. And his contribution off the ball is close to zero.

Having said that he's a top tier back-up. So long as when he plays he isn't stuck out on the right flank with only Antonio "backpass" Valencia for company.

I think he'd walk into a Leicester starting eleven, personally. Especially if Mahrez leaves. Not so much Tottenham, I wouldn't start him over Eriksen or Alli.
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I agree with everything apart from him walking into the Leicester side. I mean, on paper, he's technically superior to virtually every player they own, but just wouldn't fit into their fast paced, physical, counter-attacking 4-4-2 set up.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I often see this type of silly justification: player X has won this or that. But in fact the team/squad and manager is what does the winning (or losing) and the individual player only contributes towards this (or doesn't contribute, as the case may be).
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Agree about using trophies to fully determine the worth of a player and it can be misleading, however on this occasion the point holds up.

Juan Mata was picked as part of a Spanish squad that has an unreal amount of talent especially in a midfield capacity, he's a quality footballer and it's a valid retort to the laughable claims he isn't good enough for the likes of Leicester or Spurs. That in reality is 'silly'...
 
Mata won't even make a starting eleven for top 7 PL clubs.

Leicester play 442 so no place for Mata. Unless if they want to use Mata as a left midfielder.
Arsenal has Ozil
Spurs has Dele Alli
City has Silva and De Bruyne
Rooney or Pogba (if we sign him) or Mkhy will be ahead of Mata
West Ham has Payet
I can see him challenging Oscar at Chelsea, Coutinho/Firmino at Liverpool, and Barkley at Everton. But all of these four players are younger than Mata and has yet in their prime age.

People who said Mata is only good enough for a team targeting 4th or 5th have their point. Chelsea finished 5th and 3rd when Mata was at the club. When he left, they won the league. Good player but United expect more. I also doubt he will make in Sir Alex squad, you look at the attackers we had, they have pace and power.
 
Mike09 said:
Mata won't even make a starting eleven for top 7 PL clubs.

Leicester play 442 so no place for Mata. Unless if they want to use Mata as a left midfielder.
Arsenal has Ozil
Spurs has Dele Alli
City has Silva and De Bruyne
Rooney or Pogba (if we sign him) or Mkhy will be ahead of Mata
West Ham has Payet
I can see him challenging Oscar at Chelsea, Coutinho/Firmino at Liverpool, and Barkley at Everton. But all of these four players are younger than Mata and has yet in their prime age.

People who said Mata is only good enough for a team targeting 4th or 5th have their point. Chelsea finished 5th and 3rd when Mata was at the club. When he left, they won the league. Good player but United expect more. I also doubt he will make in Sir Alex squad, you look at the attackers we had, they have pace and power.
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I said somewhere in previous pages I see Roma as a playstyle he'd suit but its another thing the club actually wanting him.

I dont see him in the PL.
 
Mark_Barca said:
Agree about using trophies to fully determine the worth of a player and it can be misleading, however on this occasion the point holds up.

Juan Mata was picked as part of a Spanish squad that has an unreal amount of talent especially in a midfield capacity, he's a quality footballer and it's a valid retort to the laughable claims he isn't good enough for the likes of Leicester or Spurs. That in reality is 'silly'...
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Mata would be vying for a place with Eriksen or Alli. It's not that Mata isn't good enough for Spurs, it's simply that he's not better than what we already have ... and his wage demands would be untenable in any case.
 
Forgive me if this point has already been made, but I feel like Mata's performances depend a lot on the referee for a given game.

So many times I watched him last season and he was dispossessed by even the tiniest push sending him to the ground - some referees gave them and some didn't but when they didn't, Mata just disappeared from the game completely.

That, in itself, is why Mourinho probably won't keep him - because uncertainty is something you have to remove if you want to win titles.
 
He played for Chelsea when they weren't very good. He was their player of the season when they were relatively poor in the league. Their balance was poor, they weren't a consistent enough side.

The Champions League (which is constantly brought up) was lucky, and had more to do with about five other players than him. Chelsea had long been a team able to grind out cup wins, due mostly to the original core that Mourinho built.

He played as a late substitute (gap-filler) for Spain while they were great. And for any serious team, that's all he could hope for, because his game has holes in it. He's a numbers man, but he often goes missing and gets bullied so easily that it almost cancels out his positives.

Everton is closer to his level than a full strength Chelsea/United. He needs to play for a team (like that poor Chelsea side) that will appreciate his goals/assists too much to care about his downsides.
 
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Mike09 said:
Mata won't even make a starting eleven for top 7 PL clubs.

Leicester play 442 so no place for Mata. Unless if they want to use Mata as a left midfielder.
Arsenal has Ozil
Spurs has Dele Alli
City has Silva and De Bruyne
Rooney or Pogba (if we sign him) or Mkhy will be ahead of Mata
West Ham has Payet
I can see him challenging Oscar at Chelsea, Coutinho/Firmino at Liverpool, and Barkley at Everton. But all of these four players are younger than Mata and has yet in their prime age.

People who said Mata is only good enough for a team targeting 4th or 5th have their point. Chelsea finished 5th and 3rd when Mata was at the club. When he left, they won the league. Good player but United expect more. I also doubt he will make in Sir Alex squad, you look at the attackers we had, they have pace and power.
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What is wrong with you? Are you actually comparing dele alli to mata?
 
Great player to have in the squad, just not a world class playmaker we thought we were getting. Comes up with important goals and assists in big games. I would still keep him. especially over the captain
 
RedElf said:
Squad lacks quality in depth. If Mata is ok with the bench, then we should keep him.
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If he wasn't happy sitting on the bench at Chelsea, he won't here at 28 years of age, hitting his prime. He's gone.
 
Shark said:
If he wasn't happy sitting on the bench at Chelsea, he won't here at 28 years of age, hitting his prime. He's gone.
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Not sure. I'd imagine we're paying him significantly more than Chelsea were, in which case he might be slightly more willing to sit here a while. Especially if the main teams pursuing him atm are the likes of Everton.
 
Speak said:
He played for Chelsea when they weren't very good. He was their player of the season when they were relatively poor in the league. Their balance was poor, they weren't a consistent enough side.

The Champions League (which is constantly brought up) was lucky, and had more to do with about five other players than him. Chelsea had long been a team able to grind out cup wins, due mostly to the original core that Mourinho built.

He played as a late substitute (gap-filler) for Spain while they were great. And for any serious team, that's all he could hope for, because his game has holes in it. He's a numbers man, but he often goes missing and gets bullied so easily that it almost cancels out his positives.

Everton is closer to his level than a full strength Chelsea/United. He needs to play for a team (like that poor Chelsea side) that will appreciate his goals/assists too much to care about his downsides.
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27 goals and 38 assists is an exceptional return over two seasons in any team in a top league, never mind for what you suggest a 'poor Chelsea side' which makes it even more impressive.

Find it funny how Mata's performances are being played down here when at Chelsea, yet people are wax lyrical over someone like Hazard who played in a superior Chelsea team and has never delivered in Europe. But hey winning one league title and then finishing 10th is obviously far superior to what Mata produced in a weak Chelsea team even winning two European competitions!

Everton being Mata's level is hilarious.
 
Mark_Barca said:
27 goals and 38 assists is an exceptional return over two seasons in any team in a top league, never mind for what you suggest a 'poor Chelsea side' which makes it even more impressive.
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Not really more impressive. Some players shine more when they play for lesser teams - where the manager isn't as focused on the tiny details. Michu, for example, scored loads. He'd probably fare better with the freedom of Swansea's style than he would under better managers, when tasked with being purposeful for the full game.

Mata is best suited to team that will appreciate his goals/assists too much to care about his weaknesses and lack of general purpose in other areas of the pitch.

Find it funny how Mata's performances are being played down here when at Chelsea, yet people are wax lyrical over someone like Hazard who played in a superior Chelsea team and has never delivered in Europe. But hey winning one league title and then finishing 10th is obviously far superior to what Mata produced in a weak Chelsea team even winning two European competitions!

Everton being Mata's level is hilarious.
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League titles are a better measure of the quality of a side than cup titles. Teams that only win league titles are rightly considered better than teams that only win cups. And teams that win both are rightly considered even better than that.

Especially when the Champions League (which is always brought up for Mata) was won in the way Chelsea managed.

You may find it hilarious, but as a starter, Everton is closer to Mata's level than the top clubs/teams are. As a squad player, he's good enough for any team.
 
Speak said:
Not really more impressive. Some players shine more when they play for lesser teams - where the manager isn't as focused on the tiny details. Michu, for example, scored loads. He'd probably fare better with the freedom of Swansea's style than he would under better managers, when tasked with being purposeful for the full game.

Mata is best suited to team that will appreciate his goals/assists too much to care about his weaknesses and lack of general purpose in other areas of the pitch.


League titles are a better measure of the quality of a side than cup titles. Teams that only win league titles are rightly considered better than teams that only win cups. And teams that win both are rightly considered even better than that.

Especially when the Champions League (which is always brought up for Mata) was won in the way Chelsea managed.

You may find it hilarious, but as a starter, Everton is closer to Mata's level than the top clubs/teams are. As a squad player, he's good enough for any team.
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Except the Chelsea team he was shining in was unquestionably better than the United team he wasn't shining in when played out of position over the past 3 years. Mata's lesser performance at United wasn't about levels because you were playing at a lesser level yourselves for 3 years.
 
Mike09 said:
Do you actually think pochettino is going to break up Kane and Alli partnership for Mata? Not worthy.
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We don't know that because mata is not on their team. My whole point was you insinuating that mata wouldn't get in over alli. This might sound a bit odd but I genuinely think mata could also get in over eriksen. Too many people on here overrate the tottenham squad when in reality they are just balanced as a team and suffered little to no injures.
 
He seems to me like the kind of guy who will stay and fight for his place, provided the manager doesn't tell him he has zero chance of being a regular starter.
 
kenny19 said:
We don't know that because mata is not on their team. My whole point was you insinuating that mata wouldn't get in over alli. This might sound a bit odd but I genuinely think mata could also get in over eriksen. Too many people on here overrate the tottenham squad when in reality they are just balanced as a team and suffered little to no injures.
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It's worthy to get Payet or Ozil to upgrade Alli. No worthy to get Mata because it won't be an upgrade.
Mata over Eriksen on the left? Sorry, I can't see that happen, if that is possible Mata will be a backup choice for Martial by now.
 
ChaddyP said:
Great player to have in the squad, just not a world class playmaker we thought we were getting. Comes up with important goals and assists in big games. I would still keep him. especially over the captain
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Agreed. With knobs on. This place!
 
Jose will want a trophy in his first season and if it's not the PL then having the likes of Mata in the squad to help us get as far as possible in the cup competitions will be vital
 
Mata is a very good player and can be world class on his day no doubt about that as we saw against Liverpool 2 seasons ago. He scores and assists even in a poor and overly defensive set up, I'm not saying he's the best player in the world but he's definitely a very talented player who deserves a place in the side unless we sign someone better.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
Except the Chelsea team he was shining in was unquestionably better than the United team he wasn't shining in when played out of position over the past 3 years. Mata's lesser performance at United wasn't about levels because you were playing at a lesser level yourselves for 3 years.
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I haven't even mentioned his United form, so no idea why you've brought it up. I've only mentioned his time at Chelsea, and I've only done so because people harp on about it as if he played a part in some great team. The reality is that Chelsea were cack, and only won the Champions League through good fortune and the winning/big game mentality of Mourinho's original core/spine.

Whether Chelsea were better than United (over the past 3 seasons) is irrelevant. He's still never played for a top side, and in my opinion, he's not good enough for one. The less organised the team is, and the less attention to detail the manager demands, the better he'll be.

If anything, despite United being woeful under him, the style van Gaal introduced was more controlled and more in the style of a top team than anything Mata's Chelsea played. Which is why it's little wonder he's not standing out.
Give Mata the ball all game, and ask him to show purpose and open up a deep defence - and he goes missing. But play him in a more end-to-end game against a stretched defence, and with a higher pace and less structure - he'll do the business. Unfortunately for him, the top managers tend to want to play a tighter, more secure game.

And he hasn't been played out of position over the past 3 years.
 
shamans said:
Weird underrating and downplaying of Mata going on here.

You would think he just had some two fluke season's with stoke.
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Agreed. Bar Mkhitaryan (who'll play on the right anyway) he's easily our best #10.
 
shamans said:
Weird underrating and downplaying of Mata going on here.

You would think he just had some two fluke season's with stoke.
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I agree. Mata is way better than people are giving him credit for. He was superb for Chelsea but has had to deal with Moyes and LVG at Utd... and lets face it, most of the squad have been playing well below their level under those two. I honestly think Mourinho will keep Mata and bring out the best in him again.
 
The last couple years we've sold players like Evra, Nani, Jonny Evans, and RVP without actually replacing them first.

As a result we've stumbled in the league with a bunch of youth team players and others played out of position.

I'm quite happy with Mourinho's decision, if the rumors are true, to keep Mata around while our new players settle in. Sell Mata later when he'll be happy to leave because he's sick of sitting on the bench and not playing.

If Rooney can't return to form as a number 10, if an injury hits Mkhitaryan, etc. etc. we'll be happy to have the backup. Depending on unforeseen circumstances, Mata could be vital to our cause this season.

I also think that moving on too many players all at once was a fatal mistake after the Moyes tenure. Even if you think players should go eventually, it's better to change things gradually.
 
He's presumably on pretty sizable wages for a backup player. I guess we'll have to wait and see how Jose uses him. If he's only going to be a bit part player, and we could get a decent transfer fee for him then it'd probably be worth trading him in. He's not a player who is going to lead you to titles which is what we want out of our top earners.

Edit: From what I can find he's on about £165k a week. That's surely too much to be paying if you don't plan on using him as a regular first 11 player. I know a lot of people like to ignore finances, "It's not my money so why do I care?" etc. But the money has to come from somewhere, so if you're spending too much in one area it has to limit you in some other area if you want to run things sensibly.
 
justboy68 said:
He's presumably on pretty sizable wages for a backup player. I guess we'll have to wait and see how Jose uses him. If he's only going to be a bit part player, and we could get a decent transfer fee for him then it'd probably be worth trading him in. He's not a player who is going to lead you to titles which is what we want out of our top earners.

Edit: From what I can find he's on about £165k a week. That's surely too much to be paying if you don't plan on using him as a regular first 11 player. I know a lot of people like to ignore finances, "It's not my money so why do I care?" etc. But the money has to come from somewhere, so if you're spending too much in one area it has to limit you in some other area if you want to run things sensibly.
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People can't use the "not my money" argument here. Why? Because if a sub earn this much, the starters who were on low wage would want a rise too. Then the other subs: "he sits on the bench just like me and receive this much wage..."

The starters can be excused as they are vital parts, and the subs couldn't displace them.
 
justboy68 said:
He's presumably on pretty sizable wages for a backup player. I guess we'll have to wait and see how Jose uses him. If he's only going to be a bit part player, and we could get a decent transfer fee for him then it'd probably be worth trading him in. He's not a player who is going to lead you to titles which is what we want out of our top earners.

Edit: From what I can find he's on about £165k a week. That's surely too much to be paying if you don't plan on using him as a regular first 11 player. I know a lot of people like to ignore finances, "It's not my money so why do I care?" etc. But the money has to come from somewhere, so if you're spending too much in one area it has to limit you in some other area if you want to run things sensibly.
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The other thing is it limits how much you can use to offer to new signings because as much as we would like to say the club is swimming in money there is obviously a limit on how much you can use to pay wages. If Mata is on £165k/wk, surely thats a lot of money which can be used to attract a player or two that are more useful to the club's ambitions.
 
Speak said:
I haven't even mentioned his United form, so no idea why you've brought it up. I've only mentioned his time at Chelsea, and I've only done so because people harp on about it as if he played a part in some great team. The reality is that Chelsea were cack, and only won the Champions League through good fortune and the winning/big game mentality of Mourinho's original core/spine.
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They were a top 3 team though and they were a tad lucky but you have to be a top team to win the CL as much as I dislike them as club.

Speak said:
Whether Chelsea were better than United (over the past 3 seasons) is irrelevant. He's still never played for a top side, and in my opinion, he's not good enough for one. The less organised the team is, and the less attention to detail the manager demands, the better he'll be.
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I'm not sure what you mean by 'organised team'. Are you talking about a high pressing game? Or passing possession football? He doesn't have much defensive workrate yet neither does Ozil but his passing is world class.

Speak said:
If anything, despite United being woeful under him, the style van Gaal introduced was more controlled and more in the style of a top team than anything Mata's Chelsea played. Which is why it's little wonder he's not standing out.
Give Mata the ball all game, and ask him to show purpose and open up a deep defence - and he goes missing. But play him in a more end-to-end game against a stretched defence, and with a higher pace and less structure - he'll do the business. Unfortunately for him, the top managers tend to want to play a tighter, more secure game.
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That's not true, AVB played possession football and Mata excelled and he also excelled under RDM's counter attacking set up and under Rafa. Mourinho didn't play him supposedly because of his lack of defensive workrate.

Speak said:
And he hasn't been played out of position over the past 3 years.
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He's a CAM, Moyes and LVG played him wide an awful lot where he simply doesn't have the pace.

justboy68 said:
He's presumably on pretty sizable wages for a backup player. I guess we'll have to wait and see how Jose uses him. If he's only going to be a bit part player, and we could get a decent transfer fee for him then it'd probably be worth trading him in. He's not a player who is going to lead you to titles which is what we want out of our top earners.

Edit: From what I can find he's on about £165k a week. That's surely too much to be paying if you don't plan on using him as a regular first 11 player. I know a lot of people like to ignore finances, "It's not my money so why do I care?" etc. But the money has to come from somewhere, so if you're spending too much in one area it has to limit you in some other area if you want to run things sensibly.
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If that's the case no wonder Everton haven't managed to pull it off, I don't think Arsenal have a player on 165k yet.
 
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Bloody hell, not bothered to read the whole thread, but just reading half this page annoys me. We show no appreciation to our players - yes he didn't turn our team around like we hope he would have, but he's still a very good player, scoring some very important goals.

Mata in his first half of the season with us was great - he played like he did at Chelsea and scored a fair few goals, most importantly, I remember some Defence splitting passes from him - even if they didn't always come off, he kept trying them.

His second season was decent - on and off yes, but he was one of the better players, especially when played with Herrera. However there were a lot of pointless passing and less Defence splitting passes. He had been vangled. Third season was about the same, close to 0 risky passes and it seems like him and Herrera weren't allowed to play with each other.

He hasn't been great for United - but not many have been for the past 3 seasons - and I would rate him as one of our better performers (most of the time anyway).
 
Anyway, another report came out today saying Mourinho has told him to stay but that he can't play every game.
Won't surprise me if it's Mata pushing for a move.
 
Adisa said:
Anyway, another report came out today saying Mourinho has told him to stay but that he can't play every game.
Won't surprise me if it's Mata pushing for a move.
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I've heard Mata wants to stay but Mourinho wants him to move on. He's looking for offers for Blind as well. And Everton area interested in Schneiderlin.
 
Spoony said:
I've heard Mata wants to stay but Mourinho wants him to move on. He's looking for offers for Blind as well. And Everton area interested in Schneiderlin.
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Would be pretty annoyed if any of those three were sold, to be honest. Mata definitely has a place in our squad, and arguably in our current starting XI, too. He's unlucky to have played under two managers at United that strangled the life out of the flair in our squad.
 
Spoony said:
I've heard Mata wants to stay but Mourinho wants him to move on. He's looking for offers for Blind as well. And Everton area interested in Schneiderlin.
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Not a chance Mourinho will let Everton have Schneiderlin - he will thrive under Jose and probably play just behind Pogba.
 
I don't know what kind of appreciation he needs to get though. He's clearly hasn't done much to receive it.

£140k-£165k is clearly too much as a backup player, £25m-£27m fees and £165k wages will probably be invested to Mkhitaryan fees and wages. But I don't think any club is going to pay both amount of money for Mata. He stays I guess, but if a club like PSG and Bayern with a lot of money is willing to sign him as a backup and match the price, I reckon he will be sold. I don't see any reason why can't we accept the offer if there is club can match the price when clearly he only has 2 years left in his contract and by next summer his price will be dropped. Sell him with a good price right now or offer him a new contract. I choose to sell, Pogba and Mkhitaryan can cover that no10 role if Rooney is injured.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
They were a top 3 team though and they were a tad lucky but you have to be a top team to win the CL as much as I dislike them as club.
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No, you don't have to be a top team to win any cup. You need to be a top team to win a league competition. And even better to win a league and cup double/treble. That Chelsea team weren't great, so why pretend?

That's not true, AVB played possession football and Mata excelled and he also excelled under RDM's counter attacking set up and under Rafa. Mourinho didn't play him supposedly because of his lack of defensive workrate.
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Villas Boas' team were cack. Di Matteo's team were cack. And they somehow lucked their way to the Champions League trophy in a the jammiest way in the history of the competition.
And even then, Mata's contribution wasn't within the top five or so. His best stuff largely came in league football, were Chelsea were poor.

Benitez' team resembled something of a decent side. I'll give you that.




He's a CAM, Moyes and LVG played him wide an awful lot where he simply doesn't have the pace.
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No... he played wide for Chelsea, especially once Oscar and Hazard arrived. He was considered a winger at Valencia and played wide. He's really only considered a central attacking midfielder because they were becoming fashionable due to other (better) players in that role at the time he was doing well.[/QUOTE]
 
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