Think Pogba's potential arrival may spell the end for Mata.
Get the feeling that Pogba will be playing the most advanced in a midfield 3.
Get the feeling that Pogba will be playing the most advanced in a midfield 3.
Juan Mata
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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If Pogba is playing number 10 it mean Rooney is in trouble also and that basically isn't going to happen.
While I agree Mata may go, I don't think it's related to Pogba's arrival.
While I agree Mata may go, I don't think it's related to Pogba's arrival.
Pogba won't play as the 10. That will be Rooney (unfortunately 
)
Don't see why we just don't play Pogba and Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger behind Mata. Seems like a top class midfield to me. One that could challenge for Champions Leagues.
Pogba - Schweinsteiger
Mkhitaryan - Mata - Martial
Ibrahimovic
Tell me that doesn't look world class.
)Don't see why we just don't play Pogba and Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger behind Mata. Seems like a top class midfield to me. One that could challenge for Champions Leagues.
Pogba - Schweinsteiger
Mkhitaryan - Mata - Martial
Ibrahimovic
Tell me that doesn't look world class.
So how do you explain Ashley Young then?
Pogba won't play as the 10. That will be Rooney (unfortunately
Don't see why we just don't play Pogba and Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger behind Mata. Seems like a top class midfield to me. One that could challenge for Champions Leagues.
Pogba - Schweinsteiger
Mkhitaryan - Mata - Martial
Ibrahimovic
Tell me that doesn't look world class.
Schweinsteiger is a crock, Mata won't be good enough defensively for Mourinho to play as a #10, Pogba is best as the furthest forward midfielder in a 4-3-3.
How is Schweinsteiger a crock and yet Carrick isn't? Don't understand this logic. Some people have Carrick nailed down to be a starter and yet he's slower than Bastian is.
We have other options like Schneiderlin, Fellaini and Herrera. Those guys are all useful in certain games. Still think our midfield looks the most "top class" with Mata in the #10. Rooney just disrupts the beauty of the team by being stuck in the middle of it all. And Mata's defensive work has improved massively under Van Gaal. I've seen him do slide tackles and goal line clearances in our box.
Pogba won't play as the 10. That will be Rooney (unfortunately
Don't see why we just don't play Pogba and Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger behind Mata. Seems like a top class midfield to me. One that could challenge for Champions Leagues.
Pogba - Schweinsteiger
Mkhitaryan - Mata - Martial
Ibrahimovic
Tell me that doesn't look world class.
I can't see any thing different if you swap Carrick and Rooney with Mata and Schweinsteiger. At least Carrick offers a better defensively than Schweinsteiger which means more balanced in a team.
Why our midfield looks the most "top class" with Mata as #10? What Mata has done to make any midfield top class? If it is based on Chelsea form, that means Rooney will make any midfield top class by considering his past form.
Mkhitaryan Ozil Martial
Ibrahimovic
Mkhitaryan Muller Martial
Ibrahimovic
Mkhitaryan Payet Martial
Ibrahimovic
Mkhitaryan Griezmann Martial
Ibrahimovic
No need to put Ronaldo, Bale, Neymar, Messi, Iniesta.
Tell me how much big difference Griezmann, Payet, Muller, and Ozil can make if we compare it to Mata.
Schweinsteiger played around 1200minutes, Carrick 1900, they are both injury prone, but Schnweinsteiger case is the worst.
Why play with a #10? 4-3-3 would get the most out of a player like Pogba, and we could have Herrera or maybe Matuidi beside him, which would give a better balance to the team and make up for Carrick's age.
He was as much a part of the problem last year as the rest. So weak at times and incredibly passive at others (this could be down to LVG's tactics but the lack of balls was evident so often). Saying that he has also been integral to the best football we've seen during the last 2 years (there hasn't been much) and in the right system I feel he has a lot to offer. The double against Pool last year was the stuff of legend.
Schweinsteiger is much much better defensively than Carrick. Would Carrick or Rooney get into any top European side? Absolutely not.
That would require us to buy another CAM for around 50m+. We don't need to do that when we have Juan Mata who is more than capable and usually shows up in the big matches for us.
So Bastian's injury was worse. That means nothing.
You guys want United to win trophies again and yet you insist on mediocrity like Carrick and Rooney. Both great servants for the club but they should have been shipped off about 2 years ago. How does Carrick/Pogba sound better than Schweinsteiger/Pogba or Schneiderlin/Pogba? Another thing, Carrick doesn't strike me as a Mourinho player. He's not physical enough. Bastian might not be Mourinho's ideal CDM but he's got physicality and excellent passing. Schneiderlin is absolutely a Mourinho player to me. It should be him starting.
Can not see him being a starter for Mourinho. I think Rooney or Mkhitaryan will be the #10 and in big matches there would be no #10 or Pogba would play there. I do not think he would or should be happy with a rotational role especially since Mourinho rarely rotates.
How is Schweinsteiger can get into any top European side and Carrick isn't? Schweinsteiger has done nothing last season.
And how is Mata can get into any top European side and Rooney isnt? What Mata and Rooney have done in these last two or three years are equally poor for a top European side.
Those players are what you called players who is currently considered to be a top CAM. Mata is currently nowhere near their level.
So you prefer to have a player who has done equally poor as Rooney in these last two or three years? And yet moaning about Rooney will start. Pogba is so much better option for CAM than Mata.
We want to win the league that's why we need a better player than Mata because he hasn't been good enough. None said they want Rooney or Carrick. Players like Rooney and Mata have done equally bad on these last two or three years. When someone mentioned Pogba as a no10 without mentioning Rooney, you said Pogba won't be no10 because Mourinho will start Rooney but the ironic thing is you put Mata as a no10 when Pogba will be so much better option than Mata. You are overhyping Mata here.
Check my post in Ashley Young thread
On that topic: Didn't Ashley Young take a wage cut when extend his contract?
Why do I always see people assuming that Pogba will play #10? When did he ever play in that position? I never saw him play in that position at Juventus. He's always deployed as CMF/DMF or LWB.
Are you for real? He is one of the furthest up field in Juventus midfield. His role is very Fellaini- ish (for the sake of illustrate the point. Better examples would be Ballack, Lampard)
I meant that most matches he would play in midfield but, in big matches when Mourinho is more cautious he would be played further forward so we could pack the midfield.
Yeah, because if you watch Juventus play it is very obvious that Pogba is allowed to freely roam around and do whatever he pleases while the rest stick to the tactics.
It looks quality. I hope Jose isn't trying to accommodate RooneyPogba won't play as the 10. That will be Rooney (unfortunately
Don't see why we just don't play Pogba and Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger behind Mata. Seems like a top class midfield to me. One that could challenge for Champions Leagues.
Pogba - Schweinsteiger
Mkhitaryan - Mata - Martial
Ibrahimovic
Tell me that doesn't look world class.
Mourinho's ideal #10 is a mix of traditional #10 & #8. Yes, it's tactical lax-er than traditional #10 and more of free roaming role in attacking. Pogba fits this description.
I would agree with you if I ever saw Pogba actually started as #10 ahead of Hernanes, but he never did to my knowledge. Juventus posts the diagram of starting XI and Pogba is always at left CMF. You can see him roaming still within that position, but not playing with the team doing whatever. Like his goal against Bayern. I think he does play within his position, but he plays outside of team tactics.
I disagree that he play outside team tactic. Juventus doesn't have real left winger. Pogba played more to the left sided to cover for that space. There is time Juventus put in Sandro as left winger, you can see Pogba was allowed a roaming in the middle compared to his central teammates who are asked to play "holding" role. Here I am talking about at least 2 seasons, not just this past season.
Ballack was deployed in a very similar role in diamond formation at times, Ancelotti used in his first season with Chelsea. Ballack can be #10, side midfielder (not true winger), hybrid #6 and #8. Pogba can perform aiming ll these roles.
I diagree. Pogba was deployed as LWB before Evra came. Also, Juventus doesn't deploy wingers. They play either 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 diamond with two CMFs.
Are you talking out of your assumption here?
When Pirlo played his spot in 3-5-2, Pogba was deployed as LWB before Evra arrived. Then Marchisio was deployed as replacement for Pirlo, then he played CMF.
Pereyra played #10 position ahead of Pogba when Juventus deployed 4-4-2 diamond.
Nope,
Pirlo was still at Juventus when Evra arrived. In 352 Pogba played as a no10, Pirlo as a no6, Vidal as a no8. The role he's getting is similar to Lampard at Chelsea.
442 is obviously different story.
I did say "before" Evra arrived, didn't I?
So that means you admited that Pogba did play as a #10 when Pirlo was at the club right?
Pogba is difficult to define because he's a complete midfielder. He's got the physical strength and discipline to play as DM, although to be fair he would be pretty underused in that role. He can play in a deep lying playmaker role and he can play as no 10. He's a mix between a classical playmaker, ADM (his dribbling is that good) and a civilized Fellaini roled in one.
In my opinion he will play in the deep lying playmaker role with Schneiderlin as DM and Mata/Rooney as no 10. However the no 10s must better watch out because he can easily switch to that role.
In my opinion he will play in the deep lying playmaker role with Schneiderlin as DM and Mata/Rooney as no 10. However the no 10s must better watch out because he can easily switch to that role.
Disagree. Before Evra's time, there was a guy called Asamoah who played left wing back for a Juventus in 5 at the back system (Conte says hi). I don't know where you get this Pogba as left wing back bs from
Allegri used Alex Sandro as left winger sometimes. You seem to try talk big, but seem clueless with your claim. Check Bayern vs Juventus as prime example, and come back tell me if it's diamond 4-4-2 or 3-5-2
Can't believe you're in Germany when the biggest team in your country played against Juventus, with a different system that opposite all your claims.For some occasions, Conte's Juventus plays 4 at the back Chiellini (yes Chiellini at young age was known more as left back than CB) played left back. Pogba played #10 or the left side midfielder (not winger).
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To be fair to hirotan, Pogba was left back under SAF. Left back in the reserves.
Sounds like Mata is likely to stay. I'll be happy if that's the case. Fantastic rotation/backup player to have.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36857733
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36857733
I dunno Mata liked being at Chelsea, he was their fans new hero and from the minute Jose came in the fact he was for sale was leaked so I'm calling BS on Joses quotes there
Jose has probably been informed that it'll be hard to get rid of Mata from here due to his salary so he just has to keep him
Mourinho's quotes make it seem like both him and Mata are happy for him to play a squad role. Anyone who doesn't think that's a good thing (money provided) is an idiot.
There might be a lot of teams who wouldn't like Mata as a starter but there is no team on the planet who wouldn't want him as a squad player. Part of us stepping up to a top level is having a great starting eleven but another part is having genuine quality on the bench.
Also, would be happy with what it says about Mourinho: Namely that he is pragmatic enough to appreciate a player like Mata even if he doesn't 100% suit his general plans.
Mata is an extremely productive player who is neither injury prone nor trouble making. He can is also versatile enough to do a job across the three behind the striker (albeit in his own particular way).
Happy news for us.
There might be a lot of teams who wouldn't like Mata as a starter but there is no team on the planet who wouldn't want him as a squad player. Part of us stepping up to a top level is having a great starting eleven but another part is having genuine quality on the bench.
Also, would be happy with what it says about Mourinho: Namely that he is pragmatic enough to appreciate a player like Mata even if he doesn't 100% suit his general plans.
Mata is an extremely productive player who is neither injury prone nor trouble making. He can is also versatile enough to do a job across the three behind the striker (albeit in his own particular way).
Happy news for us.
There also has been a few reports that Jose wants him to stay. Mata has also said the rumours he's leaving aren't true.
I don't think Mata will be a key player. But it makes sense to keep him if the person ahead of him is Rooney.
Schweinsteiger was injured for most of the season. He's still one of the best CMs of the 5 years or so. Carrick has never been an "elite" player as much as our fans like to rave on about him. He was a decent player at best. Schweinsteiger was world class at best. And I'd be willing to bet the likes of Juventus, PSG, maybe even Bayern again would be lining up for his signature if we were to transfer list him. Carrick should have retired after the FA Cup win.
Mata, I could easily see a top Spanish club like Atletico picking him up. There was rumors about Barca aswell. Plus he's still in his 20s. Rooney? His prime is over. He's been in decline for about 4 years now.... since Ferguson retired, maybe even before that. On top of that, Rooney had his chances last season. Van Gaal did what everyone was begging for in the second half of the 14/15 season which was to sell Falcao and Van Persie and play "our best striker" Rooney up top. And look how that worked out. He couldn't score a goal from August-January. It was terrible. Yet everyone thinks he's a definite starter? This is part of the problem with United. By that logic, we should have kept Falcao. There was no difference in Falcao and the Rooney of last season. Rooney played every game and Falcao was benched after like, 3.
Mata on the other hand has never had a consistent run of games at CAM. The majority of his time at United, he's been played as a RM which is not suited for him at all. That's why Kagawa failed - these needs to be in the middle. If we play him regularly in the middle, I guarantee he will reach Chelsea figures. But it seems like nobody is good enough for United except the great Wayne Rooney. If Pogba doesn't hit the ground running, our fans will become impatient with him and those same fans will be fuming if Mourinho dares to drop Rooney after giving England vs Iceland-esque performances.
Pogba can player deeper. He's got defensive qualities so playing him as a 10 as opposed to a 8 is a waste of his overall qualities as a complete midfielder. Mata on the other hand is a natural CAM. He's by far our best option there. Look at Arsenal... they play Ramsey behind Ozil. Fairly similar comparison.
If Mata stays, he will work his way into the starting 11. He always does. Van Gaal benched him at the beginning and he changed his mind about him. He's improved on his defensive side ever since joining United. Like I said before, I've seen him track back, slide tackle and even do a few goal line clearances for us. He's a much more "complete" player now than he was at Chelsea. Personally, I think we should give him a free role in the CAM position. Let everyone else stick to the tactics and build the team around him. On form, he is absolutely world class. And it's a waste to be playing him on the right every time.
Excuse me mate but saying that Carrick has never been an elite player for me is very very far away from the truth. He has probably been the most underrated player we had for the last decade and he was the player that made our team tick and win everything the moment we bought him. United's lineup started with him week in and week out and I am talking about a team consisting of Ronaldo, Roooney, Ferdinand,etc.. Yes he was not sparking with some fabulous goals, dribbles, and so on but as I have already mentioned he just made everything tick. In my opinion he was one of our best and most important players during the last decade...
Moreover the things you are saying are completely farfetched. Mata played for Valencia mostly on the wing and produced the goods. He also played a lot of games for Chelsea on the wing even before Mou and he produced as well. He was faster, he was smarter and he had penetration. He could easily harm the opposition. The Mata of last two seasons was a complete shadow of his former self. He was very very weak. Exactly as Rooney was...
Btw I have not seen somebody here saying that Rooney must be a definite starter...
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I think so too. He's a better player than Rooney as a #10 and with good players around him he can perform like never before.
Ridiculous! Schweinsteiger was injured a lot but still one of the best centre mid of the five years? There are more centre mid is currently better than him! Schweinsteiger is clearly has been struggled with his fitness for the last three years. And also just because Schweinsteiger used to be a great player doesn't mean he will get into top European team right now, he's been injured all the time last season ffs. He couldn't even move Khedira away from starting eleven spot in Euro, if Gundogan wasn't injured Schweinsteiger won't be able replace the injury of Khedira against France and Italy. It will a massive gamble if there are any clubs who is willing to pay his wage 200k for an unfit player.
Carrick has never been an elite player? Well if you are England manager, I can see you will do the silly thing like Roy Hodgson, dropping Carrick and Drinkwater for Henderson and Wilshere.
Ask Xabi Alonso, what does he think about Carrick.
http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/liver...n-manchester-uniteds-michael-carrick-5380256/
Athletico won't pick him up!! It doesn't make any sense. Why would they want to pay £25m fees and £140k per week wage for a player who is clearly won't fit into their 442 formation.
Yeah there was a rumour for Barca as well last season but he would be bought as a bench warmer because he's not good enough to be top European team starter. Barca isn't interested anymore because they signed the replacement, Arda Turan.
For four years? 2 or 3 years ago, Rooney was the same age as Mata. So how can a 28 years old Mata won't be declined when clearly you just said Rooney has been declined for four years, and he was 28 in those four years. Mata has done nothing much in the last three years so to be fair this should be applied to Mata as well as he's been declined for three years. On top of that Mata also had his chance last season but together with Rooney as an experience player couldn't lead our attack and support the young players, and instead we rely on teenager like Martial and Rashford to support Mata and lead our attack how embarrassing is that? If we have Payet or Ozil or Griezmann in place of Mata, we would have done so much better don't you agree?
Mata was clearly got his games time enough as a CAM but at the end of the day he couldn't get the job done and is dropped to bench or right winger. Mata is a good player but not good enough to be top European team starter. He was a starter at Chelsea when they finished 5th and 3rd in the league. They had never try to compete the league in those two seasons but when Mourinho came and wanted to challenge the league, Mata was dropped and sold. You were overhyping Mata too much.