Juan Mata

Jaybomb said:
Except Carrick ISN'T better than Bastian defensively... in any way shape or form. Bastian is better at intercepting and tackling, as well as distribution. So I'm not sure where you've got this opinion from.
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Not with this kind of defending.
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Jaybomb said:
Why are you keep bringing Xabi Alonso's opinion up like it somehow validates your opinion? Sir Alex Ferguson is one of the greatest minds the game has ever seen and he's gone on record saying that Phil Jones is the next Duncan Edwards. He's also responsible for hiring Moyes... nuff said.
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Why? Because you kept talking about Carrick couldn't make England squad when you look at how stupid England has been to left Carrick and Scholes out from squad and use Scholes as a left midfielder.
Only Sir Alex said that, did anyone else say Jones is the next Duncan Edwards? But more than one people praised Carrick and thinks he should be in England squad such as Sir Alex, Wenger, Alonso, Xavi, Neville, etc. And if you read what Alonso said in that article is clearly has sense compare to what Sir Alex said on Jones. I don't know why you can't even tell the difference.

Jaybomb said:
There's plenty of top players in Ligue 1. And not just from PSG... Lacazette, Valbuena, Diarra... plus your dream signing Payet came from Ligue 1 last season, didn't he?

  • Any evidence of this? I've rarely ever seen Mata lose possession and cost us a goal. I think you're making assumptions because he's not a strong tall physical player. He's more than capable of keeping possession.
  • Your logic for not playing Mata is because he couldn't win the league with Chelsea. That's what it all comes down to. Ozil is the star man at Arsenal and they haven't won the league. Who's to say their aspirations aren't too low? Maybe they should sell Ozil like Chelsea sold Mata and buy a more defensive physical CAM. You said Jose was right to do it before, so maybe Wenger will be too! Right?
  • Ivanovic and Terry didn't play in the final. Bosingwa/Luiz/Bertrand did. And Luiz was outstanding in the final. One of the main reasons Chelsea won it. But you can't take away from Mata's contribution. Like it or not, he found Drogba with that header.
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  • That doesn't mean Ligue 1 is as good as EPL. EPL is tier 1 mate while Ligue 1 is tier 3. Completely different level.
  • You are interpretated in the wrong way. I said Mata is good keeping possession by playing safe such as passing the ball backward and make simple pass. He knew he couldn't beat his men, because if he tried he will lose possession. His playing style has been ineffective and disappear in a game for example LVG were just about to take Mata off right before he scored in Final FA cup since he made no impact at all and all of sudden he scored thanks to Rooney's effort.
  • Dont play dumb with me. Ozil won La Liga with Madrid that is considered to be a league mate. Don't compare Mata with Ozil mate. You are getting ridiculous.
  • You criticised my logic, but look at your logic first. Ridiculous. You don't win the competition because of one match!! What about the fact that they can reach final all the way from top 16 and knocked out Barcelona in semi. Terry and Ivanovic were very important to be part of it.
  • Like it or no you need to accept the fact that Chelsea defense is the main reason they won CL. The parking bus was crucial for them. And also Mata didn't exactly found Drogba. It was from corner kick and Drogba went towards the ball and header it. It's not like it's a pure vision that he found Drogba.
  • By your logic would you say Park was less important than Anderson and Nani in our CL victory in 2008 because he didn't get involved in final? He was brilliant in both legs against Roma and Barcelona.
 
Mike09 said:
Not with this kind of defending.
Draxler-Assist-MUFC.gif




Why? Because you kept talking about Carrick couldn't make England squad when you look at how stupid England has been to left Carrick and Scholes out from squad and use Scholes as a left midfielder.
Only Sir Alex said that, did anyone else say Jones is the next Duncan Edwards? But more than one people praised Carrick and thinks he should be in England squad such as Sir Alex, Wenger, Alonso, Xavi, Neville, etc. And if you read what Alonso said in that article is clearly has sense compare to what Sir Alex said on Jones. I don't know why you can't even tell the difference.



  • That doesn't mean Ligue 1 is as good as EPL. EPL is tier 1 mate while Ligue 1 is tier 3. Completely different level.
  • You are interpretated in the wrong way. I said Mata is good keeping possession by playing safe such as passing the ball backward and make simple pass. He knew he couldn't beat his men, because if he tried he will lose possession. His playing style has been ineffective and disappear in a game for example LVG were just about to take Mata off right before he scored in Final FA cup since he made no impact at all and all of sudden he scored thanks to Rooney's effort.
  • Dont play dumb with me. Ozil won La Liga with Madrid that is considered to be a league mate. Don't compare Mata with Ozil mate. You are getting ridiculous.
  • You criticised my logic, but look at your logic first. Ridiculous. You don't win the competition because of one match!! What about the fact that they can reach final all the way from top 16 and knocked out Barcelona in semi. Terry and Ivanovic were very important to be part of it.
  • Like it or no you need to accept the fact that Chelsea defense is the main reason they won CL. The parking bus was crucial for them. And also Mata didn't exactly found Drogba. It was from corner kick and Drogba went towards the ball and header it. It's not like it's a pure vision that he found Drogba.
  • By your logic would you say Park was less important than Anderson and Nani in our CL victory in 2008 because he didn't get involved in final? He was brilliant in both legs against Roma and Barcelona.
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  • EPL tier 1 and Ligue 1 tier 3? :lol: Most Premier League sides would struggle against the likes of PSG, Monaco, Marseille, Lyon etc. It's already been proven with Arsenal failing to beat Monaco last year. The PL has a few top players but the majority of them are overhyped and overrated. La Liga is by far the strongest league. Real Madrid, Barca and Atletico would never let a team like Leicester City win La Liga. That just shows how weak England's top sides are.
  • Again, you're contradicting yourself. Mata has won just as much as Ozil has and the statistics are pretty similar in the Premier League. Put Mata in the Arsenal team and he will reach a similar amount of assists. Put Ozil in our team under LVG and he would be invisible. Just like he was for the majority of time for Arsenal in his early years.
  • If Mata scored the goal and Drogba took the corner, you would say it was all Drogba's doing.

Not even arsed with this debate anymore. You're clearly not a Mata fan but you're talking complete rubbish if you think Ozil would have done much better out on the wing for us under LVG.
 
Jaybomb said:
  • EPL tier 1 and Ligue 1 tier 3? :lol: Most Premier League sides would struggle against the likes of PSG, Monaco, Marseille, Lyon etc. It's already been proven with Arsenal failing to beat Monaco last year. The PL has a few top players but the majority of them are overhyped and overrated. La Liga is by far the strongest league. Real Madrid, Barca and Atletico would never let a team like Leicester City win La Liga. That just shows how weak England's top sides are.
  • Again, you're contradicting yourself. Mata has won just as much as Ozil has and the statistics are pretty similar in the Premier League. Put Mata in the Arsenal team and he will reach a similar amount of assists. Put Ozil in our team under LVG and he would be invisible. Just like he was for the majority of time for Arsenal in his early years.
  • If Mata scored the goal and Drogba took the corner, you would say it was all Drogba's doing.
Not even arsed with this debate anymore. You're clearly not a Mata fan but you're talking complete rubbish if you think Ozil would have done much better out on the wing for us under LVG.
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  • You are telling me Ligue 1 is on the same tier with EPL? :lol: I don't even know if you are just being biased or joking. Everyone know the league is lower than EPL and La Liga. It's pretty much one team league competition. Just because they have PSG doesn't mean the league's tier is the same or higher. Just because Monaco beats Arsenal doesn't mean the league is better. I just want to let you know that Swansea, West Ham and West Bromwich beat Arsenal as well. Even Norwich who got relegated managed to draw against Arsenal. Oh btw Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago, does that mean Scottish league was better than La Liga? :lol: Your logic is so ridiculous. Can you please talk some sense? This is my second time asking. Everyone know the two best league right now are EPL and La Liga which are considered to be tier 1.
  • How can you still be stubborn on that? Read everyone post on this thread, they are all saying Mata is a good squad player but not good enough for starting eleven or use him to build team around if we want to challenge the league. Discussion ends! :nono:
  • Oh my lord. Pretty similar? He was nowhere near Ozil last season.
  • Huh? Why would I say that? Im not biased. Don't compare me with you.
Whatever mate, why would I be Mata fan because I'm not Mata fan. I'm an United fan. Unlike you acting like Mata fans boy. Yea right Ozil didn't complain at all and can deliver the goods when he was played on the wing with Germany a few games. Payet, Muller and Griezmann had no complaints as well.
And don't tell me if Mata didn't get a fair chance play as a CAM last season, he did get his chances enough but still fail to perform. And to be honest for someone like you who's been blabbering about his time at Chelsea, he did play quite a lot as a right winger at Chelsea as well.
 
Mike09 said:
  • You are telling me Ligue 1 is on the same tier with EPL? :lol: I don't even know if you are just being biased or joking. Everyone know the league is lower than EPL and La Liga. It's pretty much one team league competition. Just because they have PSG doesn't mean the league's tier is the same or higher. Just because Monaco beats Arsenal doesn't mean the league is better. I just want to let you know that Swansea, West Ham and West Bromwich beat Arsenal as well. Even Norwich who got relegated managed to draw against Arsenal. Oh btw Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago, does that mean Scottish league was better than La Liga? :lol: Your logic is so ridiculous. Can you please talk some sense? This is my second time asking. Everyone know the two best league right now are EPL and La Liga which are considered to be tier 1.
  • How can you still be stubborn on that? Read everyone post on this thread, they are all saying Mata is a good squad player but not good enough for starting eleven or use him to build team around if we want to challenge the league. Discussion ends! :nono:
  • Oh my lord. Pretty similar? He was nowhere near Ozil last season.
  • Huh? Why would I say that? Im not biased. Don't compare me with you.
Whatever mate, why would I be Mata fan because I'm not Mata fan. I'm an United fan. Unlike you acting like Mata fans boy. Yea right Ozil didn't complain at all and can deliver the goods when he was played on the wing with Germany a few games. Payet, Muller and Griezmann had no complaints as well.
And don't tell me if Mata didn't get a fair chance play as a CAM last season, he did get his chances enough but still fail to perform. And to be honest for someone like you who's been blabbering about his time at Chelsea, he did play quite a lot as a right winger at Chelsea as well.
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You accuse me of putting words into your mouth and not reading your post and yet you say I said Ligue 1 is on the same tier as the Premier League? :wenger: All I'm saying is PSG would win the Premier League. And the likes of Lacazette, Diarra, Valbuena, Fabinho etc would all start for most Premier League teams. It's not just PSG that have good players. That's an absolute myth.

What about Ozil the season before last? He only scored 4 and assisted 5. And funnily enough, thats when he was been played out on the LW most of the time. Did you think he was brilliant then? Bet you didn't. Mata suffered the same faith under LVG. He may have been a winger for Valencia but he is a CAM first and foremost. He will tell you that himself.

Mata barely played as a CAM last season. Only when "Mr. Undroppable" Rooney was out. He did do this when he played at CAM though...



I'm done with this debate now. I'm entitled to my opinion and you're not gonna change my mind. Save your energy and time. ;)
 
Jaybomb said:
You accuse me of putting words into your mouth and not reading your post and yet you say I said Ligue 1 is on the same tier as the Premier League? :wenger: All I'm saying is PSG would win the Premier League. And the likes of Lacazette, Diarra, Valbuena, Fabinho etc would all start for most Premier League teams. It's not just PSG that have good players. That's an absolute myth.
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So what's the problem with EPL being a tier 1 and Ligue 1 being a tier 3? You are the one who has an issue with that statement. Just because they have PSG and a few decent players from other club doesn't mean I'm wrong calling EPL as a tier 1 and Ligue 1 as a tier 3, EPL is proven to be higher tier league than Ligue 1 because it's a better league.
PSG stil need to fight hard just like the others to compete in PL, no team is guaranteed to win the PL that includes PSG. Just to let you know one of the team that you mentioned Marseille signed Steven Fletcher on loan and got 9 starts and in Sunderland he got 11 starts.

Jaybomb said:
What about Ozil the season before last? He only scored 4 and assisted 5. And funnily enough, thats when he was been played out on the LW most of the time. Did you think he was brilliant then? Bet you didn't. Mata suffered the same faith under LVG. He may have been a winger for Valencia but he is a CAM first and foremost. He will tell you that himself.
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4 goals and 5 assists in 1860 min. Mata with 6 goals and 5 assists in 2902 min. :nono:

Jaybomb said:
Mata barely played as a CAM last season. Only when "Mr. Undroppable" Rooney was out. He did do this when he played at CAM though...
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Did you even watch? Rooney played as a no9 at first half of the season, second half of the season Rooney was injured and Mata had plenty of chance to play as CAM, and when Rooney came back Rooney was played as a no8

Jaybomb said:
I'm done with this debate now. I'm entitled to my opinion and you're not gonna change my mind. Save your energy and time. ;)
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I don't see any reason why do you need to be stubborn when majority people on this thread already said Mata is a good squad player but not good enough for starting eleven or use him to build team around if we want to challenge the league. Sorry mate, but Mata won't make any midfield looks the most top class.
 
Mike09 said:
So what's the problem with EPL being a tier 1 and Ligue 1 being a tier 3? You are the one who has an issue with that statement. Just because they have PSG and a few decent players from other club doesn't mean I'm wrong calling EPL as a tier 1 and Ligue 1 as a tier 3, EPL is proven to be higher tier league than Ligue 1 because it's a better league.
PSG stil need to fight hard just like the others to compete in PL, no team is guaranteed to win the PL that includes PSG. Just to let you know one of the team that you mentioned Marseille signed Steven Fletcher on loan and got 9 starts and in Sunderland he got 11 starts.



4 goals and 5 assists in 1860 min. Mata with 6 goals and 5 assists in 2902 min. :nono:



Did you even watch? Rooney played as a no9 at first half of the season, second half of the season Rooney was injured and Mata had plenty of chance to play as CAM, and when Rooney came back Rooney was played as a no8



I don't see any reason why do you need to be stubborn when majority people on this thread already said Mata is a good squad player but not good enough for starting eleven or use him to build team around if we want to challenge the league. Sorry mate, but Mata won't make any midfield looks the most top class.
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The Premier League is only competitive cause there's no world class team in it. At one point, United had a World Class team. And I suppose you could say the Invincibles Arsenal team was "World Class" (despite them never winning a Champions League). But the logic people use to say the EPL is the best league in the world is usually "Anyone can win it!" - Anyone can win the League of Ireland too. Doesn't mean it's better or even close to Ligue 1 or La Liga. I judge the leagues based on which league has the best players. La Liga has Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Iniesta, Griezmann and Messi. And that's not counting the defenders... it wins by default.

Mata was played on the right still. Lingard and Fellaini were even playing in the middle over him at times.

Again I'll say... people agreeing with you doesn't make you right.
 
Jaybomb said:
Again I'll say... people agreeing with you doesn't make you right.
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:lol:
Make up your mind mate, if you are done with this debate then you shouldn't reply at all. The same thing goes with you just because you have different opinion with me and other people on this thread doesn't make you right either. You are just being stubborn trying to make this argument longer. Haven't you notice at all that every time I point out something that you can't respond it you decide to ignore it and make a new argument?


Jaybomb said:
The Premier League is only competitive cause there's no world class team in it. At one point, United had a World Class team. And I suppose you could say the Invincibles Arsenal team was "World Class" (despite them never winning a Champions League). But the logic people use to say the EPL is the best league in the world is usually "Anyone can win it!" - Anyone can win the League of Ireland too. Doesn't mean it's better or even close to Ligue 1 or La Liga. I judge the leagues based on which league has the best players. La Liga has Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Iniesta, Griezmann and Messi. And that's not counting the defenders... it wins by default.
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You are using Ireland as a comparison with EPL for this argument :lol: Come on stop kidding yourself.

See what I meant! You always ignore the point of the discussion when you can't respond it and decide to make a new argument. Who cares about La Liga being better or the best. The point is both EPL and La Liga are two the best league. They are the tier 1 league. EPL is so much better than Ligue 1. You were the one who had an issue with that. So stop ignoring this fact and trying to make a new argument that La Liga is the best because I never said La Liga isn't the best. You were talking about Arsenal got beaten by Monaco and PSG could win PL, just to let you know that City beats PSG in CL.


Jaybomb said:
Mata was played on the right still. Lingard and Fellaini were even playing in the middle over him at times.
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Don't play dumb. Lingard only played as CAM once, Mata played 8 times and Fellaini played 3 only. Mata is clearly the one who played the most over those two players. And as CM Juan Mata also played more than these two (4), Lingard (3), Fellaini (3). He had his chance enough to prove what he can do on the centre but failed.
 
Everton forum Grand Old Team reckon they are in for Mata again.
 
If they are getting 70m for Lukaku they can pay 40+ for Juan. I still think if you build a team around him with two CDMs behind him he will get you a ton of goals and assists.
 
ChaddyP said:
in this market he's easily worth 30 + million . anything less is an insult and they can feck off
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Totally agree, and more so with the money they're quoting/getting for Stones and Lukaku.
Btw nice seeing you still post Chaddy. It's been weird checking the Pogba thread and not finding one of your comments.
 
United Pro said:
Totally agree, and more so with the money they're quoting/getting for Stones and Lukaku.
Btw nice seeing you still post Chaddy. It's been weird checking the Pogba thread and not finding one of your comments.
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:lol:

The mods have me on lock down. But I do post other places from time to time :)
 
As much as I hate the fact of over paying 100M+ for Pogba, but when I see these figures for such an average player like Lukaku I see how we valued Pogba.

Be serious this amount for Lukaku ! We can sell them Mata for 45 easily.

I can understand that in the market values are now wonky, but I think that Chelsea should called off this transfer. With this amount they can have 2 forward players better than him
 
No chance will we let Mata go. He's still a fantastic attacking option (if played in the middle)

We need 2 first teams if we want to Challenge in all cups and Europe.
 
Can we not bump threads just because some other forums ITK said something?
 
Mike09 said:
:lol:
Don't play dumb. Lingard only played as CAM once, Mata played 8 times and Fellaini played 3 only. Mata is clearly the one who played the most over those two players. And as CM Juan Mata also played more than these two (4), Lingard (3), Fellaini (3). He had his chance enough to prove what he can do on the centre but failed.
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I'm not sure what the crux of your debate is with @Jaybomb but its misguided to say Mata had his chance at number 10 and failed.

He was barely deployed there in more than 2 consecutive games, ever. The odd games he did feature was either with lesser players around him in cup games, or ones where he actually made a difference (notably in Europe, where he played I think Martial through for a key goal vs PSV/Wolfsburg.. can't remember which).

I'm not trying to say Mata has had less chances to prove himself than Ozil, because both players have operated in wider roles and drifted infield. But its extremely unfair to compare the two players when the flexibility in attack is stark under each manager. Lets see how Mata does under Mourinho, if he's given enough of a chance.

If pre-season is anything to go by he'll very good for us.
 
KM said:
Can we not bump threads just because some other forums ITK said something?
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Sorry mate, I actually think it's a load of BS after checking out their 'ITK'.

Every transfer he predicted on that forum hasn't happened. He is an attention seeker. They all hang onto every word he says too. Plus apparently he is a moderator :wenger:
 
Red Bug said:
Sorry mate, I actually think it's a load of BS after checking out their 'ITK'.

Every transfer he predicted on that forum hasn't happened. He is an attention seeker. They all hang onto every word he says too. Plus apparently he is a moderator :wenger:
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No worries!
 
I would love for Mata to stay and excel under Mourinho but can't see it happening.
 
I don't know about excelling but he's most likely staying.
 
Mata is as good luxury player as they come. Provided the squad isn't stacked full of such (luxury players) I'm happy to see him stay. I thought he'd leave when Jose implied he's no longer a starter. Great if he wants to stay. Looks like most of his suitors want to loan him or get him at a bargain basement price. He's just too good to give away like that.
 
Noc-Z said:
I think he will stay, but a player like Mata does not excel unfortunately. He's just not dynamic enough. Simply not good enough for United.
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If he stays then it's probably because Jose feels a little bad for getting rid of him so quickly twice and maybe will use him as a squad player to bring off the bench when the team is leading and kill of games.
 
prarek said:
If he stays then it's probably because Jose feels a little bad for getting rid of him so quickly twice and maybe will use him as a squad player to bring off the bench when the team is leading and kill of games.
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Yes I can see him staying as a squad player. I should have said not good enough to be a starter for United (rather than not good enough full stop). As a squad player he could be useful from time to time.

EDIT: Regarding feeling bad, I'm not so sure, remember Jose did say it was Juan who wanted to leave Chelsea.
 
He needs to stay for squad depth, simple as that. Next summer we can bring in a few more players and then get rid of the likes of Mata and Depay. But until then we need him for rotation and backup when others are injured.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
He needs to stay for squad depth, simple as that. Next summer we can bring in a few more players and then get rid of the likes of Mata and Depay. But until then we need him for rotation and backup when others are injured.
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Agreed on Mata. But regarding Depay, I'm not convinced (from what I've seen) he's even good enough to be a squad/back-up player here.
 
i liked mou's reply when he was asked about subbing mata for mhiki logical and a calculated decision, can see why mata would be upset tho, gut says mata will be heading out of Old Trafford :(
 
Red Devil 1325 said:
i liked mou's reply when he was asked about subbing mata for mhiki logical and a calculated decision, can see why mata would be upset tho, gut says mata will be heading out of Old Trafford :(
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Mourning has already said he is staying.
 
Adisa said:
Mourning has already said he is staying.
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When did Jose say this?

I like Mata but I hope he is used for Europa League and Cup games.

I read on Twitter a while back that he agreed with Jose he won't be a first 11 starter and is happy to fight for his place.

Why the hell was he played on the right today though? Thought we had seen the last of that crap.
 
Time will show but is Mkhitaryan a better player than Juan?

I think he really should be a starter or at least challenging for a place. He's better than Rooney and pretty much every other number 10 option we have bar perhaps Mkhitaryan.
 
Ban said:
Didnt watch the game, was there some kind of riw between Mata and Jose?
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I presume you know Mata was subbed on and then taken back off again?

When he was coming back off, Mata clearly looked annoyed. He didn't immediately sit down on the bench and the coaching team got up to explain the decision to him, or just simply to try and support him. Mourinho then walked back from the touchline and spoke to Mata, pointing back at the pitch. Mata shook his head, laughing and Mourinho walked back to the touchline.

Not a row, or even an argument really, but clearly Mata was unimpressed at being subbed off and clearly Mourinho wasn't happy with Mata's contribution for some reason.
 
Crappy way to treat Mata. The reasoning behind the sub made no sense either. This is what you get with Mourinho though. He's a naturally divisive character.
 
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