No he hasn't, not in the way he's playing at Chelsea. I watched him play at Valencia and he played out wide in the same way Silva played out wide, roaming and swapping with other players. He never played the way he's being asked to now.
Juan Mata
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No he hasn't, not in the way he's playing at Chelsea. I watched him play at Valencia and he played out wide in the same way Silva played out wide, roaming and swapping with other players. He never played the way he's being asked to now.
I think he's roaming a fair bit at Chelsea too, from what I've seen anyway. You have now doubt watched him more though so I take your word for it.
Yeah he is, but I said this to Pete which explains a difference.
"As for having a free role, that's true to an extent, but he's still always predominantly on the left, so it isn't comparable to Silva who drifts all over the pitch, swapping postions with other players.
Plus, when Mata comes inside, no one swaps with him to go out to the left wing, which if you watch Chelsea causes problems as they become very narrow and predictable. A lot of the time the only pass he will have on is to the right wing, as no ones on the left flank. Contrast that with Silva at City who when he has the ball in the middle will have passing options all over the pitch, Balotelli has a tendency to drift wide left, against Arsenal for example he did this alot, Aguero and Nasri likewise drift to the flanks, stretching the pitch. This gives Silva numerous passing options and creates space, Mata on the other hand often drifts in field, but as no one is on the left the defensive line just moves with him and he really has no where to go. Watch Chelsea play and look out for it, it always happens."
He does roam, but it causes issues. For example the Arsenal game at the Bridge he actually had an average position which was more central than some of the midfielders. So that implies he was roaming an extreme amount. But like I say, it doesnt benefit him or Chelsea, as no one rotates with him, so no one stretches the pitch.
Another comparison with City is that they have without a doubt the most attacking fullbacks in the league, it used to be Chelsea, but now it's definately City, Richards especially gets forward more than any other fullback I can think off. This again stretches the pitch and gives the central playmaker Silva, more options. When City play their best football all the players are rotating, there's space which players run into and the pitch is at its widest. This gives Silva such extensive options, sometimes he'll have a pass on to the advanced over lapping fullbacks, a through ball to the forward, Dzeko or Balotelli, or maybe Aguero or Nasri who drift around him. That's actually why I think Ballotelli is now preffered to Dzeko, he offers more fluidity as hes more comfortable moving around the pitch.
In contrast, Chelsea are completely stale. They always have been to an extent, but it's ridiculous this season. Drogba's a target man who offers little movement up front, but the worst aspect is undoubtedly the midfield, it offers zero going forward. A midfield three of Ramires, Meireles and Mikel is extremely defensive. AVB seems to have clocked it's too much and dropped Mikel, but Romeu, whilst a better and more technical player, has been given the same role, so it hasnt changed anything attacking wise.
In the past they could get by with this defensive/solid midfield approach due to Lampard being a threat from the middle and getting 20 goals a season. But now that he doesnt have the energy to get forward the midfield offers no threat. In practice what that means is that when Mata drifts in field, he has no one to pass to. There's little in the way of runs from midfield and Drogba doesnt have great movement. Added into that, he can only really look to one flank, the right one, as theres no one on the left. It means they are completely stale in attack and cant open teams up.
What I'd do is move Mata to the middle and drop a midfield player, Mikel in my opinion. Then play a new left winger. This would open the pitch up and give Mata room to operate, plus it would provide another attacking threat.
He's not great yet, but I've seen enough of him to say he has all the ingredients to become great, particularly as he's started less like 15 games in a new country.
As Theon is saying, the system at Chelsea is not really set up to get the best out of him right now, I'm sure AVB will be looking to bring in the type of players that will enable Mata's role to become much freer.
Bit too much special pleading for Mata IMO, all the AMs who joined top six clubs in the summer might do better if their clubs constructed a side to get the best out of them. They've just had to get on with it though.
On the position debate. Theon is right. Whilst Mata lined up on the left for Valencia he wasn't playing as disciplioned a role out there for them. You can see the restrictive nature of his role at Chelsea is hurting his performance.
They should sack signing a central midfielder off and bring in a left winger instead and move Mata to a more central position. He looks miles more dangerous when he comes inside.
They should sack signing a central midfielder off and bring in a left winger instead and move Mata to a more central position. He looks miles more dangerous when he comes inside.
Silva has had a whole season more in this league than Mata, comparsions in the positive or negative are too soon.
Which other clubs in the top 6 bought a free role player in the summer?
Which other clubs in the top 6 bought a free role player in the summer?
Nasri, Young and even Downing have all played more centrally.
Jordan Henderson, if by a free role you mean that he will soon be available on a free.
The one factor which can't be ignored is that it's his debut season. I'd say he's doing about as well as Silva did when he first came to England. He's also more of a goal-threat than Silva was - because he's a more direct player.
My gut feeling is that he'll never be as good as Silva though. I never watched much Spanish football but every time I saw Silva he just seemed to have a quality and composure on the ball you very rarely see. I don't see this in Mata at all. He'll get better, no doubt, but I'm confident City signed the better Spaniard.
The cnuts.
My gut feeling is that he'll never be as good as Silva though. I never watched much Spanish football but every time I saw Silva he just seemed to have a quality and composure on the ball you very rarely see. I don't see this in Mata at all. He'll get better, no doubt, but I'm confident City signed the better Spaniard.
The cnuts.
The lack of a really good left sided player has probably pushed him inside at Chelsea. If they manage to ship Malouda in the summer and bring in someone who is a real threat out there then they might bring him inside to play ahead of the midfield where he would, I imagine, be a better player for them than Meireles. But as pete alluded to, I don't think any of the teams in the PL are really set up to allow the likes of Mata to play as they'd like to.
If you look at similar players in Silva, Nasri and Modric, they all had to cut their teeth out wide before getting to a level where the manager was willing to play them centrally. Mata's no different.
Arshavin's another one, only he failed to make the step up an is still marooned on the wing.
Arshavin's another one, only he failed to make the step up an is still marooned on the wing.
When you look at how much they paid him, and the stage they signed him at, I'm certain we'd have gotten him had we gone in for him. And that would have sorted that position for the better part of a decade barring the unforeseen. It pisses me off that we're sniffing around pale imitations like Gaitan (at higher prices, I should add) when we could have had the real thing.
What position?
Young and Downing have predominantly played as straight forward wingers for years. Mata was used to a system where he could float where he wanted and interchanged with Valencia's other forwards. Nasri had this luxury at City he just hasn't delivered.
Left wing playmaker, a bit like Giggs has played for us and how Nani played the other night.
The attacking player in midfield. Scholes' replacement, albeit somewhat different positionally.
You could see him centrally in a 442? I can't.
Seems to me his best position is Rooney's position and I know who I'd rather have.
So what position then? We don't play the way City\Chelsea\Barcelona\Real Madrid play.
Yeah, I think he could with the right player beside him, in the same way Modric does. But then I think we shouldn't be playing 442 (or at least not against top teams, for the most part) and I'd much to see Rooney playing up front with someone like Silva behind him. And at the time he went to City we were playing three in midfield quite a bit.
But even if you say that he couldn't find a place in the middle of the field he could easily play from the left and come in. I don't really think it should ever be a hardship to find a place for really top players to play.
Hmmm I prefer seeing the likes of Welbeck up top with Rooney behind (and helping in midfield if needed) than Rooney as the furthest forward.
I agree with this in general but I don't think Mata is a special enough player for us to change our system to accommodate him.
I also think if we're going to spend the guts of 30 million quid on a midfielder I'd much rather sign someone who will be right at home in the heart of central midfield from the get go.
Sorry, I was referring to Silva. My mistake.
Ah right. Well then I'm thoroughly in agreement!
He's definitely one of those rare "sign him first, work out where to fit him after" talents.
But if we do sign one of these 'free role' creative midfielders what position would they play? What system would we use. We have a tradition of utilising the wings.
I don't think we need to be beholden to 442, particularly when it looks like a hindrance against the top, tactically astute sides. And we often play Park left side and he's basically allowed to roam inside a lot, so it wouldn't be a stretch to play him there.
The last few years and the way teams like Barca and Madrid have reshaped their teams should tell us that the tactical rigidity we suffer from has to become a thing of the past. A few years ago the idea of playing without a centre-forward would have been unthinkable, now both Barca and Madrid (to a lesser extent) do it to great success. Things have to move on and the best way to do that is have lots of good players in your team and allow them to play football.
This would back up my point of him struggling to deliver in the tight games sometimes. Chelsea didn't win 4 of those games, while they only scraped a win in the other one. It shows that he seems to deliver when the whole Chelsea team are playing well. Again, I am a massive fan of him, but that's my one criticism.
It's his first season in England. He is still adjusting to the football style and pace.
You see, I've never bought the idea of it taking a while for top class foreigners to settle into this league. Look at the sheer number of quality players who have adjusted to it instantly: Berbatov, Torres, Silva, Bergkamp, Zola; the list continues.
Of course, you can bring up many players who haven't coped with it immediately, but then, there are players of English players themselves who haven't delivered when making a big money transfer to a new club here.
Did Silva adjust perfectly ? No, he had some good patches and some bad ones, very similar to what Mata is doing now... Showing some potential then disappearing...
But once Silva found his feet and once Mancini of all people started to play attacking football, it brought the best out of him...
So let's actually wait for AVB to sort out the team a bit and let Mata get used to his new role...
But once Silva found his feet and once Mancini of all people started to play attacking football, it brought the best out of him...
So let's actually wait for AVB to sort out the team a bit and let Mata get used to his new role...
Bergkamp took at least a season to adapt to English football. It was a good two years until he showed anything like his best.
Silva took a good season to adapt as well. He's a vastly better player this year to last season.
Zola and Torres looked at home after half a season of football but generally it's much more the case that imports take time to adapt and settle to a new football environment.
Silva was very good in his first season, it went unnoticed because City were generally boring and negative. It's easy to disappear in a side like that when you are a playmaker because you can hardly do your job when surrounded by three defensive midfielder and James Milner.
Why are people debating whether Mata will adapt to English game? He's already adapted, he has more assists than any other Chelsea player and is one of few of their players who haven't been disappointing. One or two bad games can happen every now and again, nothing particularly wrong with that.
Silva has stepped up a level this season into the Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas bracket.
Indeed, but a lot of that must be down to the fact that City hasn't been negative. Surely with last season's tactics he wouldn't be able to get all the assists and goals he has got. Obviously he played a bit part in their transition but they have generally become much more positive anyway. He's the best player in the league right now and that was definitely not the case at any point of last season.
That obviously helps but he wasn't that great last year especially away from home - I think he's adapted and pushed on, remains to be seen whether Mata can do the same - he had a shocker v Spurs (it was quite amusing the little arm-around pep talk AVB gave him during one of the injury breaks - get in the fecking game!).
Silva adjusted very well in his first season. For an attacker playing in a defensive side, he had an excellent season. I wouldn't say that he played well in patches, at all.
Stop mentioning Mata in the same breath as Silva, Silva is in
a different league altogether.
a different league altogether.