Juan Mata

KM said:
Their are two Martinez in the La Liga(There might be more, but for this argument's sake). One is Inigo Martinez who is a central defender and plays for Real Sociedad(the one who scored the goal from halfline) and the other is Javi Martinez(The muppet signing) who was impressive in the U21 and played as a midfielder there, however this season he has been used as a central defender by Athletic Bilbao by their new manager.
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Oh well, there you go.

Note to self, stop discussing leagues you don't watch.

Fair point by Brwned about the folly of signing players off the back of a good U21s tournament though. On that basis, Royston Drenthe looked like the best young player in the world at one point.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's a very good player. I'm sure we could fit him in somewhere. Not sure he's what we need either, mind you.
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Oh I'm sure we could fit him in but the question asked by cina was "why can't we buy midfielders for good prices", is Mata a midfielder as such? Seems much more of a forward to me and we're pretty good at buying them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Probably because "midfielders like him for good prices" were signed by other clubs. Clubs that are bankrolled by oligarchs.
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Chelsea paid £23m for Mata, City paid £24m for Silva. We could afford both especially as we bought Young for not much less this Summer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Fair point by Brwned about the folly of signing players off the back of a good U21s tournament though. On that basis, Royston Drenthe looked like the best young player in the world at one point.
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Oooh, I don't know about that, Babel looked better.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Fair point by Brwned about the folly of signing players off the back of a good U21s tournament though. On that basis, Royston Drenthe looked like the best young player in the world at one point.
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Not forgetting:

mikel_john_obi_602873.jpg
 
It's easy not to say he's not what we need but he was bought at the same time as Young was. Young transfer was just so easy and fitting. Mata is a better player and cost a little bit more.
 
Sharky7 said:
I've love to see their wages compared to Young's :lol:
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I don't think they are on anything enormous, especially Mata. Chelsea didn't need to pay over the odds to get him and I am not sure but I think what they pay their players is actually very similar to what United players earn.

Silva is a different matter. I have no idea how much he earns either but I presume it's a significant sum.

Still, both would have definitely considered a move to United even if they were to earn 20% less here, I guess. It's not like Chelsea offer £100k a week and we can only to up to £40k or something, our wage structures must be similar.

And besides, reports had it that Young earns £70k+ here so it's not really peanuts, is it?
 
Mata is on £150K a week (which is why he didn't sign for Arsenal). I would guess Young is on about £100K.
 
peterstorey said:
Mata is on £150K a week (which is why he didn't sign for Arsenal). I would guess Young is on about £100K.
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£150k a week? I wouldn't have thought so. We couldn't possibly pay him that then.
 
peterstorey said:
Mata is on £150K a week (which is why he didn't sign for Arsenal). I would guess Young is on about £100K.
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Precisely.

He's a lovely little player, but he isn't really what we need. Although if we were to play Rooney up top in a 4-2-3-1, then he would be ideal in the hole.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think the transfer fee is the only cost incurred when signing a new player?
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Of course wages come into it, but we don't even bid for them. Seriously, as someone mentioned above, Silva and Mata, perfectly affordable players.

We also have the benefit of being a far bigger club than either Chelsea or City.

Surely we should at least attempt to buy the players?

Also, if that's true above and Young is on 100k a week (ridiculous), Mata is definitely worth 150k.
 
How the hell are you so convinced that we didn't even bid for them?
The clubs don't disclose who they bid for, it's possible that we bidded for Silva and he rejected us for City's money, ditto for Mata.
 
You can't pay someone +50% more than everybody else. Your wage bill is already approaching £150M pa.
 
KM said:
How the hell are you so convinced that we didn't even bid for them?
The clubs don't disclose who they bid for, it's possible that we bidded for Silva and he rejected us for City's money, ditto for Mata.
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Oh come on, they may not "disclose" it but it rarely ever stays stay price, especially if there is a war between the player between 2 clubs.

All of Jones, Young and DDG were pretty much known about a while before we signed them, we knew about Nasri and Sneijder too.

I think it's fairly blatant we never bid for Silva or Mata.
 
cina said:
Oh come on, they may not "disclose" it but it rarely ever stays stay price, especially if there is a war between the player between 2 clubs.

All of Jones, Young and DDG were pretty much known about a while before we signed them, we knew about Nasri and Sneijder too.

I think it's fairly blatant we never bid for Silva or Mata.
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Funny how these things work out.

Before City signed Silva, and a long way into his first season there, I was convinced Silva was all style and not much substance. I wouldn't have wanted us to sign him.

This season he's been the best in the league.

Still, neither him nor Mata is what we need. We need a Schweinsteiger/Banega-type player in CM.
 
Rubbish we didn't anything about Jones before hand, read that jones thread again in the transfer window, everyone was speculating that he was going to Liverpool but then suddenly SSN flashed saying Jones is coming for a medical here. Ditto for Smalling, he was rumored to go to Arsenal but SSN reported that our bid was accepted.
 
cina said:
Oh come on, they may not "disclose" it but it rarely ever stays stay price, especially if there is a war between the player between 2 clubs.

All of Jones, Young and DDG were pretty much known about a while before we signed them, we knew about Nasri and Sneijder too.

I think it's fairly blatant we never bid for Silva or Mata.
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Did we know about David Villa? I didn't until Sir Alex said he was in for him he just didn't want to leave Spain, a while after his move to Barca. Likewise for Berbatov at Leverkusen, we went in for him but he'd committed to a move to Spurs - knew nothing of it until Berbatov said it in an interview, I think. It's a little naive to think the newspapers are going to pick up every bit of transfer 'news', don't you think?
 
marjen said:
Still, neither him nor Mata is what we need. We need a Schweinsteiger/Banega-type player in CM.
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We could go into that debate all day but I agree on this, to say we don't "need" them though, well come on, I think this season has shown that we could most certainly use them in our team.

We didn't really "need" Young that much either.

KM said:
Rubbish we didn't anything about Jones before hand, read that jones thread again in the transfer window, everyone was speculating that he was going to Liverpool but then suddenly SSN flashed saying Jones is coming for a medical here. Ditto for Smalling, he was rumored to go to Arsenal but SSN reported that our bid was accepted.
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Well I never mentioned Smalling, he was very low profile anyway.

Jones? Not sure how you're judging that, debatable I guess. DDG and Young aren't though.

Sneijder and Nasri were also fairly obvious weren't they? The former even more so since the comments by Crerand and co. of late.
 
Brwned said:
Did we know about David Villa? I didn't until Sir Alex said he was in for him he just didn't want to leave Spain, a while after his move to Barca. Likewise for Berbatov at Leverkusen, we went in for him but he'd committed to a move to Spurs - knew nothing of it until Berbatov said it in an interview, I think. It's a little naive to think the newspapers are going to pick up every bit of transfer 'news', don't you think?
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Did I say EVERYTHING? There was absolutely nothing about Mata or Silva, and did SAF ever actually say Villa's name? Hell, if he did say his name, all the more reason to think he would've mentioned bidding for other big name players he didn't get.

I'm not sure what you're getting it anyway, if it's fairly well known that both of those players were bid for and we didn't get them, don't you think it'd be well known at this stage if we ever bid for Silva?
 
cina said:
Of course wages come into it, but we don't even bid for them. Seriously, as someone mentioned above, Silva and Mata, perfectly affordable players.

We also have the benefit of being a far bigger club than either Chelsea or City.

Surely we should at least attempt to buy the players?

Also, if that's true above and Young is on 100k a week (ridiculous), Mata is definitely worth 150k.
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Oh come on. Are you really that naive? Do you think clubs send some sort of formal bid in a sealed envelope every time they want to sign a new player? A "bid" that the press are subsequently made aware of and tell the whole world?

There's all sorts of discussions between clubs, agents and players that's completely off the radar of the popular press. By all accounts, initial contact is always made with an agent. That's when the interested club finds out if any given player wants to play for them and what kind of expectations he has in terms of salary etc.

At this point, the agent may well publicise the interest, to kick off a bidding war. He may not, though, depending on how serious the player is about a move and how set he is on joining any specific club. Mata seems to have been more than willing to allow his agent sniff out the highest bidder, hence all the flirting with Arsenal. Same goes for Nasri, another tart.

If said agent is eventually approached by sugar daddy clubs willing to pay the guts of 150k+/week from the outset (and, no doubt, a whopping great agent's fee on top of that) there's only one outcome ever likely to happen.
 
cina said:
Did I say EVERYTHING? There was absolutely nothing about Mata or Silva, and did SAF ever actually say Villa's name? Hell, if he did say his name, all the more reason to think he would've mentioned bidding for other big name players he didn't get.

I'm not sure what you're getting it anyway, if it's fairly well known that both of those players were bid for and we didn't get them, don't you think it'd be well known at this stage if we ever bid for Silva?
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We didn't know about Berbatov until 2(?) years later, I'm sure there's a number of other players that we still don't know about decades later...all I'm saying is just because the media didn't pick it up at the time doesn't mean there wasn't interest at the time, whether that comes out in public later is irrelevant really.

And there was plenty about Silva.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Oh come on. Are you really that naive? Do you think clubs send some sort of formal bid in a sealed envelope every time they want to sign a new player? A "bid" that the press are subsequently made aware of and tell the whole world?
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I never said EVERY time.

Pogue Mahone said:
There's all sorts of discussions between clubs, agents and players that's completely off the radar of the popular press. By all accounts, initial contact is always made with an agent. That's when the interested club finds out if any given player wants to play for them and what kind of expectations he has in terms of salary etc.

At this point, the agent may well publicise the interest, to kick off a bidding war. He may not, though, depending on how serious the player is about a move and how set he is on joining any specific club. Mata seems to have been more than willing to allow his agent sniff out the highest bidder, hence all the flirting with Arsenal. Same goes for Nasri, another tart.
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You know this by experience do you Pogue? Just wondering, seems you think I'm naive to believe what I do yet the way you're expressing this opinion gives the impression that this is the nailed on way transfers are made.

Pogue Mahone said:
If said agent is eventually approached by sugar daddy clubs willing to pay the guts of 150k+/week from the outset (and, no doubt, a whopping great agent's fee on top of that) there's only one outcome ever likely to happen.
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Absolute bollocks, I recall Berbatov being offered far more wages by City but he still came here. it's a sad state of affairs if all players will only choose the club they want to go on based on what their agent wants and wanting more money. Even Aguero dropped his wages to go to City, of all places, cause he knew he'd win more.
The reputation and trophies of a club is also a very important factor. it's the core reason Phil Jones picked us instead of Pool who, as I recall, offered him more money.

You do love to contradict yourself.

Brwned said:
We didn't know about Berbatov until 2(?) years later, I'm sure there's a number of other players that we still don't know about decades later...all I'm saying is just because the media didn't pick it up at the time doesn't mean there wasn't interest at the time, whether that comes out in public later is irrelevant really.
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Just to be clear, you're saying it's irrelevant yet you talk about how Berbatov and Villa were brought out to the public after they happened. In fact wasn't Villa brought out quite soon after?
 
Look; I'm sure we've sounded out Valencia over both Silva, Villa and Mata, Cina. But when we're told that other clubs are interested, clubs willing to offer huge wages we're not really going to bother competing with, then our interest wil cool. I'd guess that's what happened if two if not all of those cases. It's really not that hard to understand, is it? Hence the "no value in the market"-comments from Fergie.
 
cina said:
You know this by experience do you Pogue? Just wondering, seems you think I'm naive to believe what I do yet the way you're expressing this opinion gives the impression that this is the nailed on way transfers are made.
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Eh? Experience? What are you on about? I've never bought or sold a professional footballer, if that's what you mean. I'm familiar with the way these things work, though. I thought we all were.

Absolute bollocks, I recall Berbatov being offered far more wages by City but he still came here. it's a sad state of affairs if all players will only choose the club they want to go on based on what their agent wants and wanting more money. Even Aguero dropped his wages to go to City, of all places, cause he knew he'd win more.
The reputation and trophies of a club is also a very important factor. it's the core reason Phil Jones picked us instead of Pool who, as I recall, offered him more money.
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It's almost as though the possibility of playing Champion's League football might influence a player's decision. Mad, isn't it?

You do love to contradict yourself.
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Sorry, you've lost me again.
 
I don't know how anyone can look at our team these past few weeks and figure out that we don't need a creative midfielder.
 
Aguero didn't lower his wages to go to City.......he went from 120k to like 200k with a monster bonus.
 
Sarni said:
I don't know how anyone can look at our team these past few weeks and figure out that we don't need a creative midfielder.
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We don't need a creative midfielder who needs to play in a wide, forward role, or in the hole without defensive capabilities, though. Not really.
 
marjen said:
Look; I'm sure we've sounded out Valencia over both Silva, Villa and Mata, Cina. But when we're told that other clubs are interested, clubs willing to offer huge wages we're not really going to bother competing with, then our interest wil cool. I'd guess that's what happened if two if not all of those cases. It's really not that hard to understand, is it? Hence the "no value in the market"-comments from Fergie.
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Erm marjen, wasn't my original point that it was "senseless" to not even attempt to go for the players? I mentioned nothing about competing with them on wages.

And given Young, a quite frankly inferior and less required player than Mata 100k a week, when Mata would've been 150k a week, hardly that big a difference is it?

Pogue Mahone said:
Eh? Experience? What are you on about? I've never bought or sold a professional footballer, if that's what you mean. I'm familiar with the way these things work, though. I thought we all were.

It's almost as though the possibility of playing Champion's League football might influence a player's decision. Mad, isn't it?.
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Obviously I was being a tad sarcastic there ;)

So playing CL football influences a players decision but playing for Englands most successful ever club in their most successful period in their history, arguably the worlds biggest club, wouldn't?
 
He wasn't on £250k a week, that is impossible.
 
Well let's just put it this way.....he wasn't on Forbes highest paid footballers list and you'd think they'd know right? Being that their whole thing is money.
 
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