Juan Mata

Pink Moon said:
Mata will run away with this but it's still Fabregas for me. Playing regularly in the midfield there isn't many better players than him. Mata's more skilful but I'd take Cesc out of the two if I were building a team.
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For me, it's really close. Mata is better on goal but Fabregas has a more complete game. Given our needs, I'd say Fabregas would be a better fit, but not by much.

Is there any factual basis to believe we've got any chance in hell in landing Fabregas?
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Who do you guys think is better currently. Fabregas or Mata?
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Right now it's Mata without doubt. It's a difficult comparison to make though given Fabregas has been played horribly out of position for 2 years.

Put him back in midfield and it's much closer but even then, Fabregas never had the kind of season Mata had last season IMO.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I think this is the most important part of this whole idea. Last season Mata was superior to Rooney and hes younger and fitter and theres no reason to suspect Mata would not be better than Rooney again next season. My only thought might be that we are rich in players of Matas area but not in Rooneys, but even so, its not a good idea to sell your best player to buy in another, its not really strengthening the team.
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There were probably 10 players in the PL better than Rooney last season, that doesn't mean they are better overall. For me when Rooney is at the top of his game he's easily one of the best players in Europe, It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he scored 25-30 goals next season. Rooney is being judged on a season where he played multiple positions and was clearly unhappy for parts of it, before his injury last week he looked fitter than iv ever seen him for a start of pre season he's going to be well up for it next year, probably even more so if he joins a new club.
 
Ruud10 said:
For me, it's really close. Mata is better on goal but Fabregas has a more complete game. Given our needs, I'd say Fabregas would be a better fit, but not by much.

Is there any factual basis to believe we've got any chance in hell in landing Fabregas?
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FWIW I firmly believe we won't sign Fabregas but the fact we've so publically made a bid means we've at least hada sniff from somewhere that he'd be interested.
 
Carl said:
Right now it's Mata without doubt. It's a difficult comparison to make though given Fabregas has been played horribly out of position for 2 years.

Put him back in midfield and it's much closer but even then, Fabregas never had the kind of season Mata had last season IMO.
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Did he not? I thought he had at least one at arsenal that was a proper sweeping-all-before-him job?
 
Carl said:
Right now it's Mata without doubt. It's a difficult comparison to make though given Fabregas has been played horribly out of position for 2 years.

Put him back in midfield and it's much closer but even then, Fabregas never had the kind of season Mata had last season IMO.
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Fabregas' stats for 09/10 seem comparable at a glance but I can't specifically remember it. I think Fabregas would outperform Mata most seasons in the prem. I don't expect Mata to quite reach the heights of last year again to be honest.
 
Scrumpet said:
Fabregas' stats for 09/10 seem comparable at a glance but I can't specifically remember it. I think Fabregas would outperform Mata most seasons in the prem. I don't expect Mata to quite reach the heights of last year again to be honest.
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ESPN has it as:

Fábregas 09/10
PL: 27 appearances, 15 goals, 13 assists
CL: 7 appearances, 4 goals, 2 assists
FA Cup: 1 appearance, 1 assist

Mata 12/13
PL: 35 appearances, 12 goals, 12 assists
CL: 6 appearances, 3 goals, 3 assists
FA Cup: 5 appearance, 1 goal, 5 assists

I reckon the heights Mata reached last year are being greatly overstated more than anything, personally. Mainly because there's a lack of genuinely top players in the league compared to when Fábregas was here (and previous to that). Or people are just looking at Mata's sensational numbers and remembering a few quality goals and judging him off of that alone. All three of his goals in the CL came against Nordsjælland, as did two of his three assists (in a meaningless 5-1 win), and then there's things like assists against a United side with Scott Wooton in it or against midtable Championship sides. It's only worth comparing league and Champions League records, really. In any case he played 65 games for Chelsea last season and got a goal or assist in just over half of them (34). Impressive but hardly mindblowing.

Fábregas had the better numbers in 09/10 no matter what stat site you use and he's obviously more influential in the build-up so to me it's clear he's had a better season and is the better player. Better final ball, better finisher and more influential in the build-up.
 
Carl said:
FWIW I firmly believe we won't sign Fabregas but the fact we've so publically made a bid means we've at least hada sniff from somewhere that he'd be interested.
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Well, I'd love to see it but I'm not going to hold my breath on this one coming to pass. If nothing else, there's still the Arsenal factor and if there's any reason for Cesc to walk out on Barcelona wouldn't he want to go back to Arsenal before every thinking about United? Yes, Arsenal have been adrift for the last 8 years but they're only 5-6 players away from being competitive for the prem trophy.
 
Brwned said:
ESPN has it as:

Fábregas 09/10
PL: 27 appearances, 15 goals, 13 assists
CL: 7 appearances, 4 goals, 2 assists
FA Cup: 1 appearance, 1 assist

Mata 12/13
PL: 35 appearances, 12 goals, 12 assists
CL: 6 appearances, 3 goals, 3 assists
FA Cup: 5 appearance, 1 goal, 5 assists

I reckon the heights Mata reached last year are being greatly overstated more than anything, personally. Mainly because there's a lack of genuinely top players in the league compared to when Fábregas was here (and previous to that). Or people are just looking at Mata's sensational numbers and remembering a few quality goals and judging him off of that alone. All three of his goals in the CL came against Nordsjælland, as did two of his three assists (in a meaningless 5-1 win), and then there's things like assists against a United side with Scott Wooton in it or against midtable Championship sides. It's only worth comparing league and Champions League records, really. In any case he played 65 games for Chelsea last season and got a goal or assist in just over half of them (34). Impressive but hardly mindblowing.

Fábregas had the better numbers in 09/10 no matter what stat site you use and he's obviously more influential in the build-up so to me it's clear he's had a better season and is the better player. Better final ball, better finisher and more influential in the build-up.
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That's actually really surprising. Perhaps it's just the freshness of last season that's clouding my memory. 09/10 seems like so long ago now.
 
Ruud10 said:
Well, I'd love to see it but I'm not going to hold my breath on this one coming to pass. If nothing else, there's still the Arsenal factor and if there's any reason for Cesc to walk out on Barcelona wouldn't he want to go back to Arsenal before every thinking about United? Yes, Arsenal have been adrift for the last 8 years but they're only 5-6 players away from being competitive for the prem trophy.
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"Only" ? I'd say unfortunately because it's not just any 5-6 players, it's 5-6 quality players. Quality players who aren't available for Arsenal to buy for various reasons.
 
kouroux said:
"Only" ? I'd say unfortunately because it's not just any 5-6 players, it's 5-6 quality players. Quality players who aren't available for Arsenal to buy for various reasons.
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Tongue was planted firmly in cheek on that one.

Looking up and down the Arsenal squad I'm just not seeing that many players who would either make the United or Chelsea starting XI.

Cazorla or Wilshere over Cleverley, check.

I'm looking real hard to find another Arsenal player who would start over any other United or Chelsea players and can't find a single one. That's shocking, especially since we all concede that United have a few areas that need to be strengthened. (I have no opinion on what Chelsea should or shouldn't do to strengthen their squad.) Granted, you never know who's going to break out in the next season. Maybe Giroud blows well past RvP and if he does then good for him. But they have a keeper problem, a mediocre back line, a decent far from special midfield and no one of any serious consequence. I do like Podolski, but for me he's on par with Chicharito and that might be generous to Podolski.

So yeah, if Wenger wants to lift any hardware this season he better be thinking 4, 5 or 6 players.
 
nahealai said:
It's nonsense, man. Absolute nonsense. Let's take a look at what Iso has said again:



Firstly, that opening statement is priceless. "An England NT icon" - laughable. The same England who have won what exactly in the last forty years? Not to mention Rooney himself flopping at every major tournament since 2004. Mata has won European Championships with Spain at u19, u21 and Senior level, as well as a World Cup. He was Player of the Tournament for his country's u21 success. For his club, he played a major role in winning their first Champions League title, as well as the Europa League. He was Man of the Match in the FA Cup Final in 2012. He is a big game player, plain and simple. It's staggering the level of belittlement emanating from Iso's post.

I am actually still of the opinion that Iso's tongue was firmly in his cheek when writing it. If not, his tongue is firmly in Rooney's arsecheek, and there's no hope for him anymore.
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:lol: Oh man, this made me laugh.
 
What on earth does winning an u21 tournament have to do with anything?

Rooney is a bigger name and the better player, that was his only point. You can disagree about the latter but even then no-one can say it's a ridiculous opinion, and the former is obviously true.
 
Its no surprise Arsenal fans type his name like that given Alan Smith got everyone on Sky saying it, the bellend.
 
peterstorey said:
Why would be want Mata when we've got Carzola?
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nahealai said:
So you agree, Vato? :D
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I actually do agree. Rooney, for me, is far too inconsistent to be labelled world class at the moment. He has indeed his moments of brilliance but if I had the choice as a coach I'd definately go for a more productive Mata right now.
I have the feeling people keep rating Rooney on his past performances for quite some time now, wonder how long it it will last unless he picks up some form again. This being said I agree with Isotope that his marketing value in the UK is bigger than Mata's. But if they both keep performing like they did, I don't think we'll have to wait very long anymore to see a change in that aswell.
 
Maybe there is actually some truth in the rumours Jose doesn't really fancy him or Luiz. Seems odd to me, especially after last season.
 
He missed last couple of friendlies and I guess Jose didn't want to risk him in a small game with other options available. Might play in their next game.
 
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