Juan Mata

cheesy said:
You see, I've never bought the idea of it taking a while for top class foreigners to settle into this league. Look at the sheer number of quality players who have adjusted to it instantly: Berbatov, Torres, Silva, Bergkamp, Zola; the list continues.

Of course, you can bring up many players who haven't coped with it immediately, but then, there are players of English players themselves who haven't delivered when making a big money transfer to a new club here.
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A settling in period is always inevitable. That is why a player of Silva's class for example is currently far better than he was in his first season.

Players who take to new league's like fish to water i.e Ruud Van Nistelrooy or Ronaldo for example are a special breed.
 
cheesy said:
Silva adjusted very well in his first season. For an attacker playing in a defensive side, he had an excellent season. I wouldn't say that he played well in patches, at all.
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Indeed, so is Mata, playing really well in a deteriorating Chelsea side which has come of age...

Do you see the relation ?

Imagine Chelsea playing with ManCity's current attacking flow and Confidence, I can't see how much different Mata and Silva are in terms of close control and passing... Techniquewise, they are almost the same...

One can say Silva had a perfect season last season while Mata also did wonders for Valencia ?

I still neglect your point about how this current Mata is inferior to Silva's debut season... Sorry mate. That's all I don't agree with...
 
Silva is in a different bloody league to Mata, make them swap roles, clubs, whatever you want, but one of them is in the top 5 players in the World, the other isn't in the top 5 in the Prem.

Get a grip you lot.
 
Sharky7 said:
Silva is in a different bloody league to Mata, make them swap roles, clubs, whatever you want, but one of them is in the top 5 players in the World, the other isn't in the top 5 in the Prem.

Get a grip you lot.
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You're overrating Silva and underrating Mata I think. Your claim of Mata being peripheral in tougher games can be leveled at Silva too. In the games against organised teams in the CL he's looked very average.

I also don't remember him having any stand out games against Madrid or Barca back in Valencia. He never looked a better player than Mata in the Valencia team when they were playing under the same conditions.

Between 2007-2010 Mata was the more productive player, so I'm not sure where this sudden gulf in quality comes from. Especially considering that Mata is also 2 years younger and is still settling in a new league. Put it this way, I reckon the gulf in quality between Iniesta and Silva is bigger than that between Silva and Mata.

And top 5? He hasn't done anything to merit that IMO, no way. Certainly no more than Rooney or Fabregas for example. Players that have played better than him for a longer amount of time.​
 
Sharky7 said:
Really well? Aside from the Valencia home game he's been pretty useless whenever Chelsea have played anyone decent.

Granted he's had some cracking games against cannon fodder though.
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Are we watching the same Mata or is it just me who hasn't had big expectations of Mata actually setting the PL alight but actually is doing quite well keeping the ball, spreading nice passes and is making Chelsea move while his free kicks have been superb ???

Do you expect him to be Chelsea's main star, control games against the top 4 sides and make dominate games like Zidane in his debut season ?

Come on Sharky, be realistic, it was never to be... He's done extremely well given Chelsea's current dip and he has really been one of their brightest spots... Not playing well against the top for sides okay 5 matches out of a big 20-25 matches isn't bad for a person that just moved to the PL...
 
Inspectah deck said:
Put it this way, I reckon the gulf in quality between Iniesta and Silva is bigger than that between Silva and Mata.
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Nah, when they were in Spain. Silva was the best of the level below Iniesta/Xavi/Fabregas that included Mata and Cazorla. He's gone up a level though.
 
I'm not sure Pete. Against your lot I think he was decent, but nothing amazing. At Old trafford he was nothing special until the sending off. Against Bayern at the allianz he was completely outplayed, those are the big games he's played this season and he didn't look like a world beater in any of them considering the circumstances. I wouldn't put him in the Iniesta bracket simply because I think the latter has a top level that no other midfielder can reach currently and is the ultimate big game player.

Also, he's only really showed this form for a year, or a year and a half at most. I will wait for a bit longer to judge. People were saying Sneijder was better than Xavi just over a year ago due to his form for inter in 09/10 but you hardly hear that now.Consistency over a longer time is a very important criteria for judging the very best players. I reckon he's being overrated a little,IMO of course.​
 
Maybe, if he's on the same the level XIF, it's definitely at the low end of the scale. You are right in that he hasn't done enough of it for long enough as yet.
 
cheesy said:
You see, I've never bought the idea of it taking a while for top class foreigners to settle into this league. Look at the sheer number of quality players who have adjusted to it instantly: Berbatov, Torres, Silva, Bergkamp, Zola; the list continues.

Of course, you can bring up many players who haven't coped with it immediately, but then, there are players of English players themselves who haven't delivered when making a big money transfer to a new club here.
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Each player adapts differently, but as a general rule people may function at a lower level than usual when their energies are spread across other tasks like integrating with a new culture, learning a new language etc, therefore it's fair to give new, foreign players a year or so with adjusted expectations so they can develop without pressure. If they hit the ground running, very good, but it's of course not fair to expect them too.
 
There's loads of examples of players who move about within a league and flop or have a rubbish first season. That's what I don't understand about the buying 'Premier League proven' players argument, there's plenty of failed transfers both domestically and with imports.
 
Mata is a brilliant player. I think Chelsea would be better off using him in a free role permanently rather than using him wide and making him do defensive work. If he played in the hole, he would be a far bigger threat and more consistent imo.
 
He is a good player alright - not on Silva's level yet - but he's clearly wasted when played in a wider role.

Whenever AVB has moved him more centrally, he's looked a much better player.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Are we watching the same Mata or is it just me who hasn't had big expectations of Mata actually setting the PL alight but actually is doing quite well keeping the ball, spreading nice passes and is making Chelsea move while his free kicks have been superb ???
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I said he's been superb against cannon fodder.

But against City, United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs... he was well, the pure definition of average.

Way overhyped. A class player for sure, but he's been nowhere near as good as some of you make out and the comparisons with Silva right now are just silly.
 
Sharky7 said:
I said he's been superb against cannon fodder.

But against City, United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs... he was well, the pure definition of average.

Way overhyped. A class player for sure, but he's been nowhere near as good as some of you make out and the comparisons with Silva right now are just silly.
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Yeah but, in fairness, you may well have said the same of Silva in his first season. There's a lot of historical airbrushing going on with Silva's City career, based on his form of the last year or so.

Prior to this, Silva was still settling down to the league and was often peripheral for City in the big games. He's benefitted from City's side improving across the board.
 
Even at that Silva's hardly been in sparkling form in the big games.
 
Sharky7 said:
He really has, just check out how he played against us, boy is the difference.
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I don't remember him being particularly influential until the second half, and of course it's that bit easier to find space when you're up against 10 men (unless the opposition park the bus, which we obviously didn't). Even at that they still only just edged us on possession overall, it was just some calamitous defending. Quiet against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Napoli and Bayern with only flashes of quality (with little impact on the game, just lots of pretty passing). Been outshone by Nasri, Balotelli or Dzeko in the big games he has played well in (Spurs, United and Bayern?). And that's with Spurs' terribly weak midfield (Krancjar and Modric as the two CMs is very easy to walk through, to be fair), us going down to 10 men and Bayern having nothing to play for.

Personally I think he's got a bit to prove on that front. No doubt he's one of the best players in the league, probably the best...but I don't think he's shone on the big stage. I think Silva's getting a lot of hype with still plenty to prove and Mata's getting a bit of unfair stick despite showing plenty of promise. Just my opinion.
 
As some have said Mata is probably more fit to a central role, basically a replacement for Lampard. The problem is that Chelsea don't really have many good wide players so Mata has to play out there.
 
Brwned said:
I don't remember him being particularly influential until the second half, and of course it's that bit easier to find space when you're up against 10 men (unless the opposition park the bus, which we obviously didn't). .
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Which game were you watching?

He was brilliant in the first half and was the main creator of their first goal, he ooozed class every time he was on the ball.

He's also dazzled in other big games so I totally disagree with the rest of your post. And I desperatly want him to be shit.
 
Sharky7 said:
Silva is in a different bloody league to Mata, make them swap roles, clubs, whatever you want, but one of them is in the top 5 players in the World, the other isn't in the top 5 in the Prem.

Get a grip you lot.
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Currently this is spot on, although I expect Mata to be one of the best 4-5 PL players in a couple of seasons.
 
Brwned said:
I don't remember him being particularly influential until the second half, and of course it's that bit easier to find space when you're up against 10 men (unless the opposition park the bus, which we obviously didn't). Even at that they still only just edged us on possession overall, it was just some calamitous defending. Quiet against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Napoli and Bayern with only flashes of quality (with little impact on the game, just lots of pretty passing). Been outshone by Nasri, Balotelli or Dzeko in the big games he has played well in (Spurs, United and Bayern?). And that's with Spurs' terribly weak midfield (Krancjar and Modric as the two CMs is very easy to walk through, to be fair), us going down to 10 men and Bayern having nothing to play for.

Personally I think he's got a bit to prove on that front. No doubt he's one of the best players in the league, probably the best...but I don't think he's shone on the big stage. I think Silva's getting a lot of hype with still plenty to prove and Mata's getting a bit of unfair stick despite showing plenty of promise. Just my opinion.
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My sentiments exactly. I mean if you are going to tout him as one of the top 5 players in the world and accolades of that ilk. Then at least wait until he has a number of stand out performances against not only the PL's very best, but the best teams in Europe. At the moment he has none, but for some reason this is being ignored. Players like Rooney, Fabregas, Sneijder have more memorable performances over the years.
 
Silva didn't look anything this special in his first season, let's see how Mata does in the second season.
 
Sharky7 said:
Which game were you watching?

He was brilliant in the first half and was the main creator of their first goal, he ooozed class every time he was on the ball.

He's also dazzled in other big games so I totally disagree with the rest of your post. And I desperatly want him to be shit.
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No more influential than Milner or Balotelli for the first goal in my view, he received the ball in space because Anderson was caught too high up and he played an easy ball to Milner, then had an airshot from the cross. And I thought the first half was very even, very little between the two and no-one obviously on top in midfield. Silva really took it up a level after the sending off but up until then I'd have said Balotelli and maybe even Aguero were more influential, so as good as he was thereafter it still leaves a bit of question mark how he would've done against 11 men when it was still a tight game. Aguero and Balotelli have probably impressed me more in the big games to be honest.

Agree to disagree, no big deal. Revisit it at the end of the season when he'll have shown a bit more either way and we might come to an agreement.
 
Blimey a lot of people have got the horn for Mata, he's got a way to go before he hits the heights predicted. He also featured as an over-age player for Spain U21s in the summer and didn't pull up any trees.
 
peterstorey said:
Blimey a lot of people have got the horn for Mata, he's got a way to go before he hits the heights predicted. He also featured as an over-age player for Spain U21s in the summer and didn't pull up any trees.
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Neither did Sturridge or Welbeck yet look at them now.
 
Sturridge and Welbeck played in a team managed by Stewart Pearce - they didn't stand a chance. Mata went all the way to the final in a very good side but still didn't shine.
 
I thought Mata was voted the best player in the U21s tournament? Or did i remember wrongly? Not that this award means anything though
 
peterstorey said:
Blimey a lot of people have got the horn for Mata, he's got a way to go before he hits the heights predicted. He also featured as an over-age player for Spain U21s in the summer and didn't pull up any trees.
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:lol:

He was player of the tournament. Thats why he kept getting linked with your lot. You lost a creative midfield player, so whos the name out there doing well? Mata. Oh he's Spanish? Lets link him with Arsenal
 
SATA said:
I thought Mata was voted the best player in the U21s tournament? Or did i remember wrongly? Not that this award means anything though
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What Pete meant to say is that despite being the best player at the tournament, he's not named David Silva. So it doesnt mean anything
 
There was no such award - Adrian Lopez won the golden boot. Had there been one it would have gone to Martinez or Alcantara.
 
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