Yeah that's a bizarre statment alright.
Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
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Just bizarre...
I understand that Manchester United in it's current state isn't really desirable to top players. But seriously, would this Zirkzee guy be a solution? 13 goals in 57 games in Italy. That's poor, sorry.
Salah scored 14 and 15 league goals before joining Liverpool. Not the miracles you talked about.
Like I said, none of Liverpool or Arsenal had amazing goal scoring season before they signed for them. Zirkzee scored 11, Hojlund playing way fewer mins scored 9 goals before moving to ManUtd.
I get your point, just that it's not back or white. Signing players who already scored lot of goals is not always the solution, likewise players who are yet to have a great goal scoring season isn't always a bad move. It's all about how the player fits and how his strengths can enhance teams overall ability.
You think people on here are going to give a signing 2 years to fully get going??
2 days, tops. “Told ye he’s shite”People clearly don’t understand the idea of having to gamble on players developing into something more than the eye can currently see especially as the competition for players and modern tech makes it easier for clubs at any level to scout players. I would way rather we grabbed someone like this on a smallish wage and gave him the time and means to improve. If he does cool put him on big money, if he doesn’t sell him for 20 something million which won’t be hard as his wages aren’t going to be big. Imagine we get Toney instead. 250k a week, 50 ish million pissed off ok the bench and a history of stupid behaviour. This is who the geniuses think we should sign. Stay away from whoever they want is my motto.
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For mid-table Bologna yeah.
He can fly?! Now that's a different story
If he can't be selected ahead of the other dutch attackers, I don't see how he's any good for us. Hope I'm wrong.
Who mentioned miracles? I said good numbers and he also was not playing as a striker so no point comparing his goal scoring output to one, even though it was a lot better.
By the way, this stemmed from me saying it was odd to go into the season with two strikers who have not scored more than 12 goals in the top 5 leagues. Your response is to point to players who have done more than that across multiple seasons as examples of other teams building attacks. This is very odd.
I never said anything about signing players who have scored a lot of goals; I am simply saying it's weird to sign a striker who has not scored even a decent amount of goals, let alone a lot when the one we already have is also in the same boat.
Never even said it was wrong, just weird, if you want to argue its not odd or weird then fine, I totally disagree with you
Ah here, flight tracker is going to be an absolute clusterfeck if we have multiple lads arriving all at once. Bring back Woody.
I don't remember if I've mentioned it on here, but even before we were linked with him, I thought this move doesn't make a lot of sense from the player's point of view, as Hojlund is easily the better player and bigger prospect, and at 23, when making the first big move of your career, you should be moving somewhere to be the starting striker.
Yesterday, I saw some people on Twitter who have watched him extensively claim that his mental profile also suggests he's not ready to just be an impact sub yet.
If this is true and we do sign him, I'd lean towards giving him a real chance and starting him in the beginning of the season, and then unless he completely hits the ground running, he will take being benched better, than if he was just Hojlund's sub from the very beginning.
If we manage to keep him happy with limited playtime though, I think this could end up being a good signing as he does offer us a lot of tactical flexibility upfront...and he could develop into a very good striker as well eventually, but I don't think he's there yet.
Yesterday, I saw some people on Twitter who have watched him extensively claim that his mental profile also suggests he's not ready to just be an impact sub yet.
If this is true and we do sign him, I'd lean towards giving him a real chance and starting him in the beginning of the season, and then unless he completely hits the ground running, he will take being benched better, than if he was just Hojlund's sub from the very beginning.
If we manage to keep him happy with limited playtime though, I think this could end up being a good signing as he does offer us a lot of tactical flexibility upfront...and he could develop into a very good striker as well eventually, but I don't think he's there yet.
So 11 is not a decent number of goals but 14-15 is doing crazy things, and scoring 9-14 league goals is good record?
Again not sure why you care about strikers, it's not 90s. Wide forwards score a lot, they are part of the attack. 2 teams have signed players who didn't have very good goal scoring seasons but built awesome attack.
Anyways I said my part. It's not weird or anything close to that, at least in my opinion. So yeah let's agree to disagree.
You think people on here are going to give a signing 2 years to fully get going??
People clearly don’t understand the idea of having to gamble on players developing into something more than the eye can currently see especially as the competition for players and modern tech makes it easier for clubs at any level to scout players. I would way rather we grabbed someone like this on a smallish wage and gave him the time and means to improve. If he does cool put him on big money, if he doesn’t sell him for 20 something million which won’t be hard as his wages aren’t going to be big. Imagine we get Toney instead. 250k a week, 50 ish million pissed off ok the bench and a history of stupid behaviour. This is who the geniuses think we should sign. Stay away from whoever they want is my motto.
2 years in terms of transition from backup player to first teamer.
Every transfer is a gamble. We spent silly money in Maguire ie an EPL proven CB who is also England's international first teamer. That was supposed to be the safest of all gambles.
Zirkzee sits around the territory between a backup player Chicarito style (ie type of signing not type of player) and something better. He's 23, he's already had experience in the German league, the Belgian league and the Serie A.Last season he had a respectable season with 11 goals in 34 matches. He had a better record this season then Hojlund had when we snapped him up from Atalanta (9 goals in 32 matches). Lets not forget that Zirkzee is more known for his assists then his goals and that we paid around double for Hojlund
Maybe in your head where you made up someone said this? If Zrikzee went consecutive seasons scoring 15 league goals then quite obviously the view would be different, let alone if he did it from wide.
Because we play with traditional CFs unlike Liverpool who did not and we don't have any wide forwards who score a lot (bar Rashford as I previously said) and for the last time Zirkzee is not a wide forward
can only hope weve done homework and ran the stats projections on him-
cant get excited about another dutch player right now
cant get excited about another dutch player right now
Not really feeling it with him
Ya good post. I totally got what you were trying to say. I don’t see the fans on here having much patience though. I think he’s a very interesting signing and I’m glad we are thinking slightly left field. It’s the only way to find value and develop a team that can grow and improve together
You don't read your posts before posting them? It was you who said Salah did some crazy things in serie a, not me.
Let me put it other way, Arsenal, Liverpool signed CF and wide attackers who didn't have good numbers but still built quality attack, one of the best in league and Europe.
So any striker signing that hasn't scored a lot of goals is a weird signing? What you're saying makes no sense.
I think we're signing him to link up with the rest of our attackers so they can score more goals. He doesn't necessarily need to score many goals himself, but if his dribbling, link-up play and ability to play in tight spaces can improve the rest of our attackers output, then maybe we'll score more goals as a total. We have incredibly competent people in charge willing to pay £34m for him and don't think it's a weird signing, so who is more reliable?
People failing to get excited after seeing his YT comps are bonkers.
Those feints and turns are the bollocks.
Those feints and turns are the bollocks.
This isn't Ten Hag, the Glazers, Murtough or Woodward though.
This is Wilcox, Ashworth, Berrada, Vivell, Ratcliffe and Ineos signing off.
When the one you already have is younger than them and also has not scored a decent amount of goals yes
This was not related to his goal tally, so again 14-15 goals no one ever said is crazy things. But if you didn't watch Salah at Roma for the 2 seasons before he went to Liverpool then its understandable why you don't seem to get it
He was a wide player and not a wide forward and he was one of the best players in the league for 2 straight seasons, not comparable to Zirkzee is anyway, but if you want to talk about the goals like I said if Zirkzee scored 14 and 15 league goals 2 seasons straight like Salah did then that would be an excellent return and I wouldn't question the oddness of his signing as a CF coming in to help the already inexperienced CF we have
So Arsenal and Liverpool signed CF + Wide forwards who didn't have very good numbers and still created one of the best attack, do you disagree with that?
Also no, he isn't wide player. He is wing forward, wing forward or whatever is the new name. He was part of attacking trio.
Now don't tell me you are some expert on Roma's Salah. Most watched him and most also knew how he got into great goal scoring position but used to fluff lot of shots. Just that no one expected him to explode into what he did at Liverpool.
We already disagreed on this point, you should move on
So you are telling me he wasn't one of the best players in Seria A during his last season at Roma? You don't need to expert to know that he was.
Your last part about no one expected him to do what he did at Liverpool is exactly the point, but you are using Liverpool (where the Salah impact is actually an anomaly) to support your argument
Anyway we should just agree to disagree.
Signing a backup CF to help your young CF who needs to develop into regular scorer, its not odd in your opinion to sign another young (but older CF) who also does not have goal scoring pedigree.
Your justification is Liverpool signed 2 players with goal scoring pedigree in Salah and Firminho and played a system which did not rely on traditional CF and Arsenal signed Jesus (who also showed goal-scoring pedigree) as a backup striker at City
Even though United are actually playing a system which relys on a traditional no 9 as the figure head...
I think we can agree to disagree and move on
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Didn't Weghorst keep him out of the Dutch side? Honestly not expecting an awful lot from this guy.
The Dutch aren't exactly brilliant on the international stage though.
Weghorst had some moments in the world cup namely against Argentina so I think that gives him a little merit.
Also they were very limited due to the injury to FDJ meaning they were going more for crosses.
Koeman wanted to play ugly and win and didn't want to go the typical Dutch style, I think you can't look at who is named for the Netherlands and think it was the best players.
This is completely down to how Koeman wanted to play.
I'm not saying Zirkzee is good or bad, but don't judge players internationally.
Disagreed what? You think they signed players with good numbers?
I mean it's not even subjective, it's pure numbers.
Salah might be the best Serie A player, that doesn't change anything. His number wasn't anything special, it was just good numbers. So 2 teams created one of the best attacks by signing players who didn't have very good numbers before joining.
He looks like a much better player than Weghorst, quite similar to Martial (when fit). Koeman is also a bit of a weird manager, Frimpong hardly got off the bench for instance
I said so multiple times, but here we are, key word being good numbers and not special, because why would you sign a backup CF with special numbers anyway, unless they were 18.19?
Again no one said Salahs numbers were special but if you don't see the difference between scoring 14 then 15 in the league to scoring 2 then 11 in terms of showing pedigree and promise then I can't help you with that one
2 teams signed or built attack who didn't score more than 15 league goals.
Good that we didn't sign him when he scored 2 goals, we signed him when he scored 11. So 11 is weird but 14-15 is good or very good.
So again same point, 2 teams built very good attack with players who didn't have big scoring season. Not hard to understand.
Its not hard to understand that my point had nothing to do with BIG goal scoring seasons and just decent to good, that shows pedigree
The difference between scoring 13 goals in 2 seasons and scoring 29...
People easily lose sight of this fact - we are signing him hoping that he will improve our forwards' interplay and therefore open up opportunities for other strikers. If he is successful, he becomes a key player and if not he becomes a squad player whilst Hoijlund continues with his growth and for 34m to 45m it's a gamble worth taking because the payoff could be huge because a striker that can hold the ball, bring others into play or create chances via dribbling or passing and score a respectable number himself could be transformative. We are also not yet at a point where him not working out will cost us a chance at a title we are just hoping that it if it works then great and if it doesn't he is young enough to earn us a decent fee down the line.
Ashworth and Co. must see more in him than the majority of us
We did very well.
What we need as a team is, a calming figure. We have become a too-rapid transition team that we don't have any sustained pressure on opposition leave alone having control in games.
Even Mainoo looks leggy, people complained about that here, but see what a calming figure does to a football game.
Now 2 seasons
Yes indeed, if you knew something about showing pedigree, you might understand why its relevant.
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