If he’s aspiring to be Marco van Basten and you’re aspiring to be Ryan Giggs, no wonder you’ve known each other since the youth days.
Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
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You'll defeat them on the battlefield by throwing those unused bits of brain at them, I suppose.
It’s ironic how in this thread a poster, who is actually familiar with Zirkzee and had seen him play plenty of times, is not taken seriously.
Caf anxiety formula for any player we are linked with
Pick any 3 of the following
Too old
Too young
Too injury prone
Too slight
Too expensive
Too unknown
Too Dutch
Too many links to Ten Hag
And I'd like to ban the word 'underwhelming' on this forum. We've had plenty of signings people wanked themselves silly over in the past 20 years and 90% of them ended up flops.
Pick any 3 of the following
Too old
Too young
Too injury prone
Too slight
Too expensive
Too unknown
Too Dutch
Too many links to Ten Hag
And I'd like to ban the word 'underwhelming' on this forum. We've had plenty of signings people wanked themselves silly over in the past 20 years and 90% of them ended up flops.
I'll reserve judgement, but it's a hard one to get excited over tbh. Unlike some I don't find the price particularly cheap either.
One thing that anyone who's seen him play had said is that he's exciting and plays with flair.
At the very least it feels like he'll be a fun player to watch, if he joins.
Not gonna say he is even remotely close to the level of Dennis Bergkamp, but I think you should look at him as that type of striker player. Not a typical poacher who is gonna impress by the number of goals he is going to make, but mostly will excel as a great addition to build up play and enables chances for his team.
dont forget the countless weve seen going elsewhere, for people to moan and complain that its exactly the type of signing we should be making, only for the player to flop hard and everybody pretend he never existed
How is his is movement and positioning off the ball? Will he press and put in a shift to help the side?
You should put things in context. Zirkzee was wanted by all the top clubs in Europe when he chose Bayern as a 16year old. He was one of the hottest prospects in Europe at youth level, but seemed to lose his way slightly after his 18th. But last season at Bologna he had a breakthrough season and had taken his game to another level. Some of his performances last season were frighteningly good as I’m sure Italian posters can vouch for. If he can fulfill his talent then €40M could be the bargain of the century.
good post and well said.
You are wrong though because some people watched him for 5 minutes and decided he isn't Osimen / Toney
I have not watched ZZ enough to become a fan of his. For me this signing is based on potential rather than what he immediately can deliver.
He is a creative false nine, a different profile from Rasmus who is strong fast and powerful. With his 6‘4“ he is a bit of a unicorn, because he moves fluidly. I like the idea of this player.
Like Højlund, he will need time to adjust to PL.
He is a creative false nine, a different profile from Rasmus who is strong fast and powerful. With his 6‘4“ he is a bit of a unicorn, because he moves fluidly. I like the idea of this player.
Like Højlund, he will need time to adjust to PL.
This post is quite something. The perfect example of the football expert complaining about everything a player is and is not from checking whoscored and and a youtube video and without considering any context or nuance. Let's try to add the context and nuance.
Goals
- Zirkzee is a facilitating striker who plays more like a 9.5/10. He is knitting together attacks and making space for others. Bologna scored an average of 1.59 goals per game when Joshua Zirkzee played (34 games) and 1 goal per game when he did not play (4 games).
- Listing goals scored from when he was 18/19 years old getting a few minutes in a few games for Bayern, is also an unimportant point. Only a handful of strikers have managed to score consistently at that age. Scoring 18 goals for Anderlecht as a 20/21 year old is a very decent return.
Playing time
- I too find it odd that he hasn't been getting more playing time. However, as has been pointed out several times, Koeman has his favourites like most other national team coaches.
- Being behind Wout Weghorst is odd, but team dynamics experience (why I also think Depay is ahead of him) is important for the team. Koeman clearly think Weghorst can create more goalscoring chances in those moments in the game.
Development and potential
- Luckily, development is not linear. Especially for strikers, finishing and composure in the attacking third usually takes time to develop.
Personally, I think Zirkzee is a really intriguing addition. I think he will come in and play both instead of and with Højlund. I think he will elevate our attacking play, with especially Rashford becoming a benefactor. And I think if he can develop his finishing, he will become a very complete striker / attacker.
Agreed. I think, most realistic case is he ends up being a Martial replacement with much better fitness and a little less effective in front of goal and less explosive pace.
He doesn’t look as quick as Martial. Hope he’s at least much better off the ball
I think you’re right actually and he went on trial with them and not us
Beat me to my edit, but yeah, agreed. I think there's enough to be positive about over this signing, at least.
Good List. Also -
Fat Parents
Too Short
Tattoos
Not first choice for country
<insert big club> didn't want him
Supported Chelsea as a kid
Too cheap
Poor on Youtube/Championship Manager/One game in 2020
Too Slow
Crap Name
Zirkzee reminds me of a more physically gifted version of Firminho. Good on the ball, good vision, good linkup, but struggles in front of net. The issue we’ll have is that Firminho was flanked by wingers that could finish so it worked. I don’t know if Zirkzee will be as successful if Marcus, Garnacho, Amad, etc aren’t putting away the chances he’s creating.
Still, with our PSR issues and how many gaps need filling in the squad, we have to find some deals and Zirkzee for 45 mil is a good one. He’s the right age and has lots of potential. Hell, if he improves his ball striking and learns how to finish he could be massive.
Still, with our PSR issues and how many gaps need filling in the squad, we have to find some deals and Zirkzee for 45 mil is a good one. He’s the right age and has lots of potential. Hell, if he improves his ball striking and learns how to finish he could be massive.
5/10 for trolling
Triggered? Really.
Are you 12?It was a ridiculous post to claim Zirkzee reminds you of Fellaini when he plays nothing at all like him. So you were given a jesty reply with an equally ridiculous comparison. Seems like you got a little "triggered" but that's ok, let's move on and compare Zlatan with David Seaman.
Watch him come and outscore Rasmus
If Milan are dropping out of this then I guess this is close to being done people.
I guess this will be €48m plus agent fee of €12m and wages of €6.5m per year.
I’ll explain, if we trigger the buy out clause it must be paid in one instalment like all buy out clauses.
United are working with a Cashflow of about £70m this summer max before any Player sales. This much is clear based on £120 of Sir Jim’s investment for 2.7% of the club being used to pay ofs some of the company credit line.and the rest being used to renovate the training ground.
Assuming that before any sales of any player they are trying to do Zirkzee, De Ligt and Ugarte for the £70-75m set aside as working cash, remember this is different from actual transfer budget and probably why the media quoted £70m.
Assuming De Ligt is £39m on a 5 years at 190k per week and Agent Fees of 15%
That’s probably agreed over 3 years instalments even though on the books we will amortise the cost at £8m transfer and £9.8m wages - Total cost on the books is £17.8m
However cash probably required this summer is £13m(first instalment) + £5.7m (Agent Fees)
Total Cash outlay - £18.7m
Ugarte transfer fee - £45m in 3 instalments and 15% agent fee with wages of £6.5m on a 5 year contract would mean that the -
Means that total cust on books would be £15.5m
However Cash required would be £15.5m
this summer.
Now you see why they are taking their time with Zirkzee, the agents wants £12m upfront this summer add that to the £34m which would have had to be paid up front and the club is already at braking point for Cashflow. Arranging 4 instalments at £10.5m and an Agent Fee of £10.5m means the club saves nearly £20m in cash this summer and so this cost to facilitate the transfer is now £21m and his actual amortised transfer fees on the accounts would £8.4m plus £6.6m wages so - £13m on the books.
I suspect that £55m cash would be smart business as it frees up more cash to add to player sales cash, remember any Saudi deal will be paid upfront and become immediate cash funds this summer.
If you consider that Varane freed up £18m annually on the accounts then De Ligt £17.8m transfer and wages.
Removing Casemiro at £30m covers his future transfer costs and his £18m wages annually cover Ugarte’s amortised cost of £15.5m
Removing Martial £13m per year is also identical to Zirkzee amortised transfer and wages costs.
It will be interesting to see how this develops in next two weeks
Sorry, you are right. I do take you seriously, I just didn’t manage to prevent myself from a cheap joke. Do you know him personally, or just have been watching him play from his youth days?
I’m quite fed up with all the regurgitating of oneliner opinions here, so I should rather encourage you to share more of your impressions.
Looking at a ten min highlight reel and five mins plus injury time for The Netherlands, I get questions like: 1. How is his mentality? He looked a bit hesitant coming in vs Turkey (no wonder, if it’s his debut, but a lad like Garnacho never looked like that even at 18). 2. Why were there so (relatively) few examples of him finishing, feet or head? Coincidence, or does he move into dangerous positions seldom, or is his finishing a bit weak? 3. Is it true he had some attitude issues at Bayern, or is that just gossip? 4. Is there a plain and obvious explanation why we are alone in for him, and why he wasn’t even in the squad for The Netherlands? Based on his highlights, he looks an obvious candidate at his age, or a shoe in in my view, looking at what Oranje has and what they lack.
I’m excited by this signing, and the ominous part is really just the double fact that I hadn’t heard much about him and the fact that our other striker is also in the young and learning category.
How would we set up with him? Looks like a silly player but like others have mentioned, not your traditional number 9.
Think it's because you came off sounding like LuckyScout, no offense
Toney agreed. Do like Osimhen but nowhere near worth the £100 million and Napoli are a nightmare to do business with. Jonathan David was one I thought could be a good option but happy with Zirkzee. The striker market is so thin atm. I grew up in era when you had problems 15/20 world class number 9s around.
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Wonder if he can play as a 10 in some games. Against teams we’re expected to dominate at home I’d play him 10 to drop deep and link up play with Fernandes central next to Mainoo.
Well said. Once he starts playing for Utd regularly, his profile will be higher and there's more chance of him starting for Holland. Especially if Koeman leaves and Holland go back to their traditional 433.
Koeman has left frimpong out of his starting 11 and he has had a great season. He starts with the utterly useless Depay, who does less work than a 39 year old Cristiano Ronaldo on the pitch. So Im not concerned he isn't getting game time for Holland. Less competition for his signature as well.
I'm looking forward to seeing what he brings, I think he will be a popular player with his dribbling and flair football style.
Lovely, given the prolific contributions of the rest of our front line I'd say this is the exact sort of profile of focal point we need. He'll help Antony etc add to their already high output
Scoring a total of 2 goals.
Agreed. I'm not seeing too many better available options than Zirkzee for the type of player he is and the costs involved.
Does seem like the player that you add to an already functioning / high goal scoring team. The cherry on the top.
The euros and Copa are over next weekend so I'd expect next week to have lots of transfer business
Interesting - beginning to look like more than just 'agent putting his client in the shop window' type of stuff - could be something in it. If so, he's very much a link-up man - he facilitates the attacking moves rather than finishing them off. If he's starting games for us, that definitely piles the pressure onto Rashford and Garnacho to rack up decent goal tallies (which, to be fair, they should find is a lot easier to do with a player like Zirkzee holding up the ball and playing them in).
Not sure we have the desert to add the cherry to.
Possibly not even the dish to put it all in.
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