Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United

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Devil_forever said:
He looks absolutely silky on highlight reels, seems to be strong on the ball, glides past players, can pick a pass and chips in with goals too. Kid would comfortably be one of our most technically gifted players from clips of him anyway. With regards to the fee, if we can move on a few players in attack, we should be fine.
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There is the Inter game, where he came on as a Sub I think. Probably his finest game.

He will hit a dead end period like Hojlund but he will carry the club forward. Probably, we all want a player of Rooney caliber but they're not there anymore. We need to have a 23 man squad of able footballers
 
Marwood said:
Not sure about that logic. It surely depends how good those national teams are. Or how good the player keeping you out is.
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Well it must be a case of Koeman having favourites then. Zirkzee has probably had a better season than both Weghorst and Depay.
 
Grande said:
4. Is there a plain and obvious explanation why we are alone in for him, and why he wasn’t even in the squad for The Netherlands? Based on his highlights, he looks an obvious candidate at his age, or a shoe in in my view, looking at what Oranje has and what they lack.
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I can take the second half of this one. Or rather, I can explain that it's a head-scratcher, and that most people in the Netherlands don't understand why Koeman didn't immediately pick Zirkzee, and even picked Brobbey over him. In fact, given Memphis's underwhelming performances, people are suggesting Zirkzee should replace Memphis as a starter. But Koeman is just rather conservative in his picks. (Weghorst doesn't feature in that equation, cause his role is to be the Plan B battering ram - at which he is somehow uniquely successful for the Dutch national team.)

It also seems that Zirkzee is a bit of a late bloomer (despite being highly regarded as a youth). Which is fine - some are. I mean, people see Van Nistelrooij as belonging to the Dutch national team generation after Kluivert's, but they actually share their birthday. (Which doesn't mean that Zirkzee will still develop lots; just that it's not necessarily a negative sign that he had his real breakout season only this year.)
 
Cheimoon said:
I can take the second half of this one. Or rather, I can explain that it's a head-scratcher, and that most people in the Netherlands don't understand why Koeman didn't immediately pick Zirkzee, and even picked Brobbey over him. In fact, given Memphis's underwhelming performances, people are suggesting Zirkzee should replace Memphis as a starter. But Koeman is just rather conservative in his picks. (Weghorst doesn't feature in that equation, cause his role is to be the Plan B battering ram - at which he is somehow uniquely successful for the Dutch national team.)

It also seems that Zirkzee is a bit of a late bloomer (despite being highly regarded as a youth). Which is fine - some are. I mean, people see Van Nistelrooij as belonging to the Dutch national team generation after Kluivert's, but they actually share their birthday. (Which doesn't mean that Zirkzee will still develop lots; just that it's not necessarily a negative sign that he had his real breakout season only this year.)
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Exactly that regarding the Memphis thing. Koeman even started Steven Bergwijn twice ahead of the likes of Frimpong and Malen, simply because Bergwijn did well for Koeman during his first stint as head coach. Memphis was Koeman's key player the first time around and since Zirkzee is a sort of similar player who drops deep, he brings on Wout to force the issue (which Wout can really really do).

The only one who he did seemingly drop all together now is Wijnaldum. I guess even Koeman has limits.
 
KirkDuyt said:
The only one who he did seemingly drop all together now is Wijnaldum. I guess even Koeman has limits.
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I can't believe Wijnaldum actually got minutes. I thought he was there as a sort of seasoned pro that could guide others (the current midfield is very green) - but to actually play him... :nervous:

Anyway, Zirkzee eh! What a haircut!
 
Joshua has very good pressing stats.

A recent sky sport article showed he was the 2nd best player in Serie A at winning the ball in the final 3rd.

I assume the new suits agree with EtH that united are aiming to be the best transition team in the Premier league?

My worry is that we also need more goals but perhaps if the transition plan comes off we will create more chances.

He does seem to have a good all round set of skills I'm nervous though. We have really struggled to buy anybody recently that has set the world alight.

Is this another EtH pick? You would hope that the new team would now be the'pickers' and that EtH just has the veto.

Are there other sides to Zirkzee's game that also fit a different master plan beyond the best transitioners? I hope there is more nuance to our plan and that the world class team we have put together have been working on it in their gardens via Zoom for a while.

The optimist in me hopes he is a corner piece in a beautiful scenic 1000-piece jigsaw that will emerge over the next 3-4 years.
How many of the corner pieces do we already have. (Probably a poor metaphor as it's more than 4 in a strong core team)

I usually give up early on jigsaws as the annoying skyblue pieces seem to always beat me.

Let's hope Berrada and co use their experience to complete the jigsaw.

It does seem that Ratcliffe has tried to discard some of the pieces that don't fit.
 
Cheimoon said:
I can take the second half of this one. Or rather, I can explain that it's a head-scratcher, and that most people in the Netherlands don't understand why Koeman didn't immediately pick Zirkzee, and even picked Brobbey over him. In fact, given Memphis's underwhelming performances, people are suggesting Zirkzee should replace Memphis as a starter. But Koeman is just rather conservative in his picks. (Weghorst doesn't feature in that equation, cause his role is to be the Plan B battering ram - at which he is somehow uniquely successful for the Dutch national team.)

It also seems that Zirkzee is a bit of a late bloomer (despite being highly regarded as a youth). Which is fine - some are. I mean, people see Van Nistelrooij as belonging to the Dutch national team generation after Kluivert's, but they actually share their birthday. (Which doesn't mean that Zirkzee will still develop lots; just that it's not necessarily a negative sign that he had his real breakout season only this year.)
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Ronald Koeman is not a bad coach, and looking at the coaches of the four teams actually getting to the semi finals, he almost looks like a top hlf candidate for an elevator conversation. But it never ceases to baffle me how he made the world top with Netherlands and Barca (okay, and PSV) and as a coach has developped a sort of the anti matter of total football.

I was brought up to love Dutch football, and fell crazy in love with the 88 team. There’s been ups and downs, also stylistically, but apart from a cornucopia at CB and RB, this is one of the weakest Dutch teams player by player in the midfiel-attack sense. Koeman deserves credit for getting that team to the SF (and maybe further). Weghorst is a no-brainer. He has shown how useful he can be to that team several times over. It’s just, thinking about Van Basten, Gullit, Bergkamp, Seedorf, Kluivert, Overmars, Van Nistelrooij, Robben, Van Persie, and then Zirkzee can’t even get minutes in a friendly because of Brobbey, Wegorst and Depay being untouchable… well, I know stuff like that doesn’t have to mean much, but it takes some wrapping head around.

Ed. Not to mention Sneijder.
 
Bwuk said:
He seems a facilitator rather than a goalscorer, which if im honest worries me.

Its banking on Rashford to not be totally shite again, Bruno, Højlund & Garnacho to also to up their numbers too. I’m not convinced Rashford will, and Hojlunds going to be the rotation option with Zirkzee.
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Yeah we need another goalscorer
 
Judas said:
We actually need more creativity, to me that’s a much bigger issue. We lack ideas going forward.
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Not just ideas but we lack players who can weave through tight spaces in central areas. Martial was the last attacker who was great at it. Amad is largely unproven. Antony and Rashford are poor in this regard. The only player who’s genuinely a natural at it is Mainoo and he’s a midfielder. Having someone who can help turn defenders, link up and beat players in congested spaces will help our creativity immensely.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Not just ideas but we lack players who can weave through tight spaces in central areas. Martial was the last attacker who was great at it. Amad is largely unproven. Antony and Rashford are poor in this regard. The only player who’s genuinely a natural at it is Mainoo and he’s a midfielder. Having someone who can help turn defenders, link up and beat players in congested spaces will help our creativity immensely.
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He looks able to offer that
 
croadyman said:
He looks able to offer that
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Yup, that’s why I like this signing in principal. We’ll see whether it works out but I like the profile of player and hopefully he turns out to be one of those that we bought at the right time (as opposed to watching them explode at a WH / Villa and wondering why we don’t identify).
 
Pronewbie said:
Are agent fees usually 25% of a transfer fee? I'd absolutely lump Haaland's agent fees in. I know most people do when discussing that transfer.

I don't know what you mean by quoting click-bait papers. All I've read is the caf and that Milan have balked at the agent fees. Also, his agent is notorious among United fans.

Guess I've stumbled upon sensitive transfer Muppet territory.
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Nothing to do with transfer Muppets, it's to do with inconsistency when talking about transfers.

Like I said, did you see who tops agent commission list almost every year? You won't see a single article on that.
 
He looks like Zlatan regen but without the insane skills/acrobatics that Zlatan displayed often.

Looks quick enough, very good hold up play and good dribbler. I saw his game video vs Juventus and Atalanta, it was very good allround performance, winning defensive headers too from set pieces.

He will be good addition, just have to make sure we have enough movement in the final third and mid third to make better use of players like him.
 
dinostar77 said:
I feel sorry for bologna. But it's their fault for agreeing to that in the first place.

De ligt and Zirkzee will be good additions
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They signed him for 8.5M euros in 2022, they are selling him for 40m, if Bayern take 20, they still make 12m profit on him, not huge but Zirkzee is not a star striker that scores ton of goals and would command 70m or more, he is decent and 40M euros is a good fee where they still profit even after Bayern take 50% of that
 
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OmarUnited4ever said:
They signed him for 8.5M euros in 2022, they are selling him for 40m, if Bayern take 20, they still make 12m profit on him, not huge but it is Zirkzee is not a star striker that would command 70m or more, he is decent and 40M euros is a good fee where they still profit even after Bayern take 50% of that
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The Bayern 50% might also just be on the profit they make (these sort of clauses are rarely on the full value of the sale). If so, that would actually mean Bologna are getting roughly €25m from the sale which is more reasonable.

At the end of the day can’t really feel sorry for them. The reason they were able to get Zirkzee for a cut price of 8.5m was due to the clause, without it they probably would have to pay €20m which they probably couldn’t afford.
 
daba said:
The Bayern 50% might also just be on the profit they make (these sort of clauses are rarely on the full value of the sale). If so, that would actually mean Bologna are getting roughly €25m from the sale which is more reasonable.

At the end of the day can’t really feel sorry for them. The reason they were able to get Zirkzee for a cut price of 8.5m was due to the clause, without it they probably would have to pay €20m which they probably couldn’t afford.
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You could be right, and also without the sell on %, his fee might've been higher, Bologna is indeed profiting from Zirkzee
 
We need to go for the next wonderkid type of signing in this rather than a squad player type for 40 million.
 
daba said:
The Bayern 50% might also just be on the profit they make (these sort of clauses are rarely on the full value of the sale). If so, that would actually mean Bologna are getting roughly €25m from the sale which is more reasonable.

At the end of the day can’t really feel sorry for them. The reason they were able to get Zirkzee for a cut price of 8.5m was due to the clause, without it they probably would have to pay €20m which they probably couldn’t afford.
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No, according to all German sources Bayern get 50% of the sale price, not the profit that Bologna makes. It is a deal that Bologna made (Bayern lowering the sale price to €8.5m while having a sell-on clause) since they couldn’t have afforded buying Zirkzee otherwise. It definitely worked out well for them.
 
Grande said:
Ronald Koeman is not a bad coach, and looking at the coaches of the four teams actually getting to the semi finals, he almost looks like a top hlf candidate for an elevator conversation. But it never ceases to baffle me how he made the world top with Netherlands and Barca (okay, and PSV) and as a coach has developped a sort of the anti matter of total football.

I was brought up to love Dutch football, and fell crazy in love with the 88 team. There’s been ups and downs, also stylistically, but apart from a cornucopia at CB and RB, this is one of the weakest Dutch teams player by player in the midfiel-attack sense. Koeman deserves credit for getting that team to the SF (and maybe further). Weghorst is a no-brainer. He has shown how useful he can be to that team several times over. It’s just, thinking about Van Basten, Gullit, Bergkamp, Seedorf, Kluivert, Overmars, Van Nistelrooij, Robben, Van Persie, and then Zirkzee can’t even get minutes in a friendly because of Brobbey, Wegorst and Depay being untouchable… well, I know stuff like that doesn’t have to mean much, but it takes some wrapping head around.

Ed. Not to mention Sneijder.
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Yeah, Koeman is not a bad coach, he's actually done pretty well with the current group and the football is sometimes pretty OK as well. It's just that there clearly seems to be another level in this generation that he isn't unlocking, but then I guess you can say that about most national coaches (especially at this EC). And he's certainly doing miles better than Blind and De Boer did!

I'm thinking Zirkzee will get his big chance soon enough. Koeman can take very long to change his preferences (de Frimpong still nog getting consistent minutes), but Memphis is clearly starting to fade, Weghorst isn't the starting player type, and Brobbey isn't any answer to anything. That's a bit of a negative reason, but it does mean that Zirkzee might soon (well, within a year or so) be the only viable option up front.
 
It feels like an underwhelming signing and more of a stepping stone to someone much better down the line. Hope he does well though obviously.
 
Murder on Zidanes Floor said:
I like the fact he's quite big, shouldn't get bullied and can ruffle up some centre back feathers.
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Looks technically very good for his size and he can definitely play with his back to goal. His shooting lets him down, but he'll have Ruud holding his hand in training.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
There is the Inter game, where he came on as a Sub I think. Probably his finest game.

He will hit a dead end period like Hojlund but he will carry the club forward. Probably, we all want a player of Rooney caliber but they're not there anymore. We need to have a 23 man squad of able footballers
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This 100%

We cannot afford to buy 1-2 galacticto, prima donna players and hope they save the club. We need to build a capable squad, a well-functioning team that can be consistent and fight for top 4, maybe an odd trophy here and there.
 
Jules_T said:
Joshua has very good pressing stats.

A recent sky sport article showed he was the 2nd best player in Serie A at winning the ball in the final 3rd.

I assume the new suits agree with EtH that united are aiming to be the best transition team in the Premier league?

My worry is that we also need more goals but perhaps if the transition plan comes off we will create more chances.

He does seem to have a good all round set of skills I'm nervous though. We have really struggled to buy anybody recently that has set the world alight.

Is this another EtH pick? You would hope that the new team would now be the'pickers' and that EtH just has the veto.

Are there other sides to Zirkzee's game that also fit a different master plan beyond the best transitioners? I hope there is more nuance to our plan and that the world class team we have put together have been working on it in their gardens via Zoom for a while.

The optimist in me hopes he is a corner piece in a beautiful scenic 1000-piece jigsaw that will emerge over the next 3-4 years.
How many of the corner pieces do we already have. (Probably a poor metaphor as it's more than 4 in a strong core team)

I usually give up early on jigsaws as the annoying skyblue pieces seem to always beat me.

Let's hope Berrada and co use their experience to complete the jigsaw.

It does seem that Ratcliffe has tried to discard some of the pieces that don't fit.
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Beautiful, very apt analogy of the jigsaw! Love it

We need pieces that fit! Not some fancy pieces, that may be great on their own, but that do not add anything to our overall picture

Very well said!
 
I actually think he’ll end up taking Rashfords spot on the left. No facts to back this up, just gut feeling haha
 
Murder on Zidanes Floor said:
Sometimes a facilitator type player can make it work.
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I think he would work in several roles. If we play that split striker formation, he would be central and could move Hojlund out to the right like against Brighton at the end of the season. He could play in a 2 just off Hojlund or even off the left in Rashfords spot. I think he gives us flexibility to rotate, with not a huge drop in quality or square pegs in round holes.
 
Lash said:
I think he would work in several roles. If we play that split striker formation, he would be central and could move Hojlund out to the right like against Brighton at the end of the season. He could play in a 2 just off Hojlund or even off the left in Rashfords spot. I think he gives us flexibility to rotate, with not a huge drop in quality or square pegs in round holes.
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exactly, pragmaticism usually prevails
 
NewGlory said:
This 100%

We cannot afford to buy 1-2 galacticto, prima donna players and hope they save the club. We need to build a capable squad, a well-functioning team that can be consistent and fight for top 4, maybe an odd trophy here and there.
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I think SJR even said in an interview recently that they need to raise the floor of the squad, then look to add a star name or two, which I think is absolutely the way to approach the current rebuild.

All the players we seen to be close to signing fall into that bracket. They aren't necessarily game changers, but they all raise the physical and technical floor of the first XI and are still good (and young) enough to still be part of the squad if/when we have to upgrade on them.
 
When Martial was at his best, he'd drop deep, hold the ball up, drag a defender or two with him by dribbling a bit and then get the two wide forwards and Bruno into play.

Assuming Zirkzee can be the guy doing that role and can actually stay fit, we might be alright. We always looked better when Martial was at his best than we have done at any other point in recent memory.
 
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