Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United

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Well, this seems inevitable.

He's an interesting looking player for sure, and the fee is not outrageous.

I do look at it and wonder what the idea for goals is with this lad and Hojlund who is still developing, and an out of touch Marcus Rashford as chief goalscoring support.

It looks a bit odd but maybe there's a master plan that hasn't come to light yet.
 
Abraxas said:
Well, this seems inevitable.

He's an interesting looking player for sure, and the fee is not outrageous.

I do look at it and wonder what the idea for goals is with this lad and Hojlund who is still developing, and an out of touch Marcus Rashford as chief goalscoring support.

It looks a bit odd but maybe there's a master plan that hasn't come to light yet.
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Yeah if Rashford could find some of that 22/23 form along with 20+ from Rasmus and maybe 10+ from Zirkzee if he signed too
 
croadyman said:
Yeah if Rashford could find some of that 22/23 form along with 20+ from Rasmus and maybe 10+ from Zirkzee if he signed too
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Do we really want to rely on the "if" in your statement?

Marcus Rashford is and has been a flakey footballer from the start. Not just across seasons but generally within seasons.

I think we'd be pinning a lot of hope on maybes. Maybe Rashford performs again. Maybe Hojlund ramps up his development. Maybe Zirkzee shows more goalscoring prowess than he has to date. Maybe Bruno offers enough from midfield.

But it's early in the window so it's very possible there is some piece to the puzzle I'm missing, maybe a wide player. That's another maybe.
 
cpresc said:
I’m excited by this signing, although it seems others are not.

i think his movement upfront while fed by Bruno will create loads of space for everyone.

add a more solid defence and we’ll be making progress
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I feel like he'll really help our wingers with their scoring numbers
 
I like the little clips I've seen of him. Looks like he can hold the ball up well and very two footed. Good to have another option besides Hojlund and if there's a release clause, why not?
 
Abraxas said:
Do we really want to rely on the "if" in your statement?

Marcus Rashford is and has been a flakey footballer from the start. Not just across seasons but generally within seasons.

I think we'd be pinning a lot of hope on maybes. Maybe Rashford performs again. Maybe Hojlund ramps up his development. Maybe Zirkzee shows more goalscoring prowess than he has to date. Maybe Bruno offers enough from midfield.

But it's early in the window so it's very possible there is some piece to the puzzle I'm missing, maybe a wide player. That's another maybe.
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Like I said in earlier post ideally we sign older proven goalscorer but there is no noise about it whatsoever
 
We need to view football more holistically and not just a case of we need goals, so lets sign a prolific striker. it just doesnt work that way.

Did people forget how our supporters were crying about Holjund not getting any chances. Or when our only resort was to give it to Rashford/Garnacho and watch them run into the opposition fullback time and time again.

The issue isnt goal socring, its creating clear chances. If we create enough chances, then our attackers will score. Its as simple as that.

Zirkzee is a player that will help us create more chances. He doesn't just drop into the deeper position every time. He will make some runs early, and then will pick his moment to come deep and play a quick outlet once he has the defender in two minds. It allowed space for the likes of Orsolini to also find easier chances.

He isn't some hidden gem, this is a player with a lot of pedigree. He had a few tough years but he has found a real maturity in his game. He is on the brink of going to that next level. If we didn't sign him now, our fans would be crying about why didn't our scouts see his potential earlier.

We are really increasing our technical floor by adding De Ligt and Zirkzee. I am a bit unsure of Ugarte but I think we have enough quality on the ball to allow him to be a primary ball winner.
 
saik said:
Yea, all the links we've had so far point towards that too. We haven't been seriously linked with players in any of the other positions yet.
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Sheth (questionable reliability I know) suggested on SSN that any move for a second CB relies on being able to sell Lindelof
 
Hope we get this and Ugarte over the line soon. I’m not sure about either target personally but around 70 odd million on two targets in positions we need is progress at least and will hopefully give us some leeway to sort out other positions without any desperation ala Antony last summer.

But a lot of the noise is that he prefers Milan.
 
He looks technically very gifted. One of those where we must be confident about him taking the next step in terms of decisiveness and end product because if he can do that, could have a meteoric rise.
 
DJ_21 said:
Exactly that’s what we’re saying. He’s a creative ST though apparently but it doesn’t help when Højlund plays.
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There has been a suggestion he could be a false 9, just can't help feeling we are missing a trick not getting a backup ST but then finances are tight
 
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Redivy said:
We need to view football more holistically and not just a case of we need goals, so lets sign a prolific striker. it just doesnt work that way.

Did people forget how our supporters were crying about Holjund not getting any chances. Or when our only resort was to give it to Rashford/Garnacho and watch them run into the opposition fullback time and time again.

The issue isnt goal socring, its creating clear chances. If we create enough chances, then our attackers will score. Its as simple as that.

Zirkzee is a player that will help us create more chances. He doesn't just drop into the deeper position every time. He will make some runs early, and then will pick his moment to come deep and play a quick outlet once he has the defender in two minds. It allowed space for the likes of Orsolini to also find easier chances.

He isn't some hidden gem, this is a player with a lot of pedigree. He had a few tough years but he has found a real maturity in his game. He is on the brink of going to that next level. If we didn't sign him now, our fans would be crying about why didn't our scouts see his potential earlier.

We are really increasing our technical floor by adding De Ligt and Zirkzee. I am a bit unsure of Ugarte but I think we have enough quality on the ball to allow him to be a primary ball winner.
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You are not wrong that it's not about simply signing a prolific goal scorer and we have to improve our style of play. We have to get players who are more comfortable on the ball, we need to move and pass the ball better & we need players who can hold up the ball well and can get out of pressure situations. Our goals tally will definitely improve once we can improve on those aspects.

However, It's not simple as if we create more chances our attackers will score a lot. We created more during Fergie years and still needed a top striker, because it also about crucial moments. Rooney scored 27 goals playing as a main striker in the season before RVP joined, but Fergie still went for Robin in the next window. RVP scored 26 in the league that season but still we won the league at a canter. I don't know if I am able to explain what I am trying to say. It small nuances. Let's take another example, Arsenal is a free flowing and high scoring team that still they can't get over the hump and more than likely will try for a more clinical striker than Jesus.

Zirkzee is a very good player and Motta got the best out him. He would definitely improve in some of the aspects you mentioned as from what I have seen in the last two seasons Erik's style of play requires someone in the middle who can hold up the ball well and get others into play. He likes to play vertically and we often use Onana to hoof the ball forward, where a big unit like Zirkzee will be a massive help as his hold up, link-up, size and technical skills are his biggest strengths. Though, he is not a pure goal scorer. The comparisons to Martial, Zlatan, Dzeko etc. are all nonsense. With him in the middle we would need Rashford, Garnacho and Bruno to share a lot of the goal scoring burden. Our team lacks prolific scorers in the wide areas and in the middle to be able to become a high goal scoring unit. Either this season or next season we'd have to pair this signing with another wide goal scorer. This season we can hope that Garnacho continues to grow and adds at least 5 more to his previous season's tally and Rashford discovers his form from the season before last.

I was thinking about this, and I wouldn't surprised to see Hojlund start a lot of games from the left and Zirkzee in the number 9 spot. As Zirkzee likes to drop deep, Hojlund can move centrally from the left and Bruno can float to the left. Kind of similar to how we played when Weghorst was here.
 
giorno said:
Varane was a starter, and I assume you'd be looking for a starter at DM too? Whereas Martial was a backup....
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Not true, Martial was always EtH's favored striker and the initial idea was for Rasmus to be the young understudy with potential that would ease his load and compete as well. In this case, Zirkzee or any other striker that can do more than just score goals makes a lot of sense.
 
OldTrevil said:
Not true, Martial was always EtH's favored striker and the initial idea was for Rasmus to be the young understudy with potential that would ease his load and compete as well. In this case, Zirkzee or any other striker that can do more than just score goals makes a lot of sense.
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:lol: I mean it's lovely fiction, but I don't believe for a second going into last season Ten Hag believed Martial would be our main forward and Rasmus would be his understudy.
 
Really surprised by the negative comments. He is a type of player we need. And at a quite reasonable fee. Perhaps a bit of a late bloomer, but based on his youth career it is clear that he was a huge talent at a young age. At 23 he is starting to fullfill that. Youth player of the year in Serie A. Maybe Bolognas best player. A team that came fifth in what again is starting to look like a very competitive Serie A.

The whole package also seems very exciting. Both his mentality, physique and ability on the ball.
 
I think a lot of people also need to remember that the striker market at the minute is incredibly poor, even with 100M to spend there aren’t any sure things.
 
andersj said:
Really surprised by the negative comments. He is a type of player we need. And at a quite reasonable fee. Perhaps a bit of a late bloomer, but based on his youth career it is clear that he was a huge talent at a young age. At 23 he is starting to fullfill that. Youth player of the year in Serie A. Maybe Bolognas best player. A team that came fifth in what again is starting to look like a very competitive Serie A.

The whole package also seems very exciting. Both his mentality, physique and ability on the ball.
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Yes. This is exactly the type of signing we should be making. Young players who are ready to step up to the next level.
Alan Shearer's record at Southampton was 1 in 4 games before his then record breaking transfer.
 
Foolsgold21 said:
The dropping deep, linking the play, technically good and unwillingness to get in the box has me thinking of … Berbatov.

Anyone else? Or am I way off the mark? :lol:
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Did you watch Berbatov in his time in the Premier League or have you just heard about him?
 
Bondi77 said:
Did you watch Berbatov in his time in the Premier League or have you just heard about him?
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Clearly the extensive knowledge through two YouTube videos on Zirkzee isn’t sufficient!
 
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Judas said:
:lol: I mean it's lovely fiction, but I don't believe for a second going into last season Ten Hag believed Martial would be our main forward and Rasmus would be his understudy.
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The fiction is what you are trying to insinuate, I'm merely going on what was happening. EtH was constantly starting Martial whenever he was fit and confirming how he was our best attacker every chance he got. To then think he was expecting his best forward to miss most of a season while buying an unproven attacker is some mental gymnastics I'll leave you to :lol:
 
Bondi77 said:
And he can't get in front of a bunch of muppets in the national side :lol: :lol:
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De ligt isn't playing as well

Capello: “Apart from Lautaro, I am in love with Zirkzee. I saw him at the San Siro against Milan and I admired a complete player with great technical qualities, great imagination, capable of 'seeing' the game, who runs and is well structured physically.A modern player with lots and lots of quality.”

You are free to compare Capello CV with that of koeman
 
OldTrevil said:
The fiction is what you are trying to insinuate, I'm merely going on what was happening. EtH was constantly starting Martial whenever he was fit and confirming how he was our best attacker every chance he got. To then think he was expecting his best forward to miss most of a season while buying an unproven attacker is some mental gymnastics I'll leave you to :lol:
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He'd at best be naive to expect anything else? I'd hope he wasn't relying on one of the least reliable players we've had at the club over the last, near enough, decade. Either way, it doesn't make the manager look too great.
 
devilish said:
De ligt isn't playing as well

Capello: “Apart from Lautaro, I am in love with Zirkzee. I saw him at the San Siro against Milan and I admired a complete player with great technical qualities, great imagination, capable of 'seeing' the game, who runs and is well structured physically.A modern player with lots and lots of quality.”

You are free to compare Capello CV with that of koeman
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Capello has retired
Koeman is coaching his nation in a quarter final in the second biggest comp in international football and watches Zirkzee close up.
There is only one opinion that matters for the Dutch.
 
devilish said:
De ligt isn't playing as well

Capello: “Apart from Lautaro, I am in love with Zirkzee. I saw him at the San Siro against Milan and I admired a complete player with great technical qualities, great imagination, capable of 'seeing' the game, who runs and is well structured physically.A modern player with lots and lots of quality.”

You are free to compare Capello CV with that of koeman
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I think with the other attackers we have, the majority (basically everyone except Antony and Amad) like to run in behind and so a striker who holds the ball up and plays people in is preferable for them.
 
Bondi77 said:
Capello has retired
Koeman is coaching his nation in a quarter final in the second biggest comp in international football and watches Zirkzee close up.
There is only one opinion that matters for the Dutch.
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Capello managed absolute beasts like Raul, Totti, Ronaldo, Shearer, savicevic and papin. He is known to be an absolute ahole who demands perfection all the time. So if Capello praises a player then he's good

Koeman won what exactly? The same league title the likes of de boer won multiple times?

Motta: "Joshua has great qualities, both technical and physical, and he is also altruistic, he thinks of the group first and then of himself.
Joshua has great qualities, both technical and physical, and he is also altruistic, he thinks of the group first and then of himself."
 
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Drainy said:
I think with the other attackers we have, the majority (basically everyone except Antony and Amad) like to run in behind and so a striker who holds the ball up and plays people in is preferable for them.
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He is. That's why the SEG fan club on YouTube is ridiculing him and those who rate him. They fear that their beloved hojlund might have solid competition for the first team place
 
neither Milan nor United willing to pay his agent those ridiculous fees. good.

this kid needs to give his head a shake and realize what's happening here.
 
devilish said:
Capello managed absolute beasts like Raul, Totti, Ronaldo, Shearer, savicevic and papin. He is known to be an absolute ahole who demands perfection all the time. So if Capello praises a player then he's good

Koeman won what exactly? The same league title the likes of de boer won multiple times?
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Where did that perfection go with England at major tournaments??
He had more beasts in that team than Whipsnade Zoo!
 
Bondi77 said:
Where did that perfection go with England at major tournaments??
He had more beasts in that team than Whipsnade Zoo!
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England and Capello was a match made from hell. Capello is a dictator, an ahole and a perfectionist. You live, you breathe and you die for football. England is, well, England. Its the nation that produce the rashfords, sanchos, Lingards and the Gazzas. The talent is there but it's an arm on the shoulder style of management. Capello can't and won't do that. He is like Keane but more arrogant, meaner and more successful

However you are free to check his CV. Spoiler alert its better then koeman
 
Judas said:
He'd at best be naive to expect anything else? I'd hope he wasn't relying on one of the least reliable players we've had at the club over the last, near enough, decade. Either way, it doesn't make the manager look too great.
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Another myth, and here you were accusing me of fiction :lol:
Martial major injury issues started in 2021 season so why would the manager expect him not to get over them in 2023.

*Edited for grammar
 
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OldTrevil said:
Another myth, and here you were accusing me of fiction :lol:
Martial major injury issues started in 2021 season so why wouldn't the manger expect him to get over them in 2023.
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Because of common sense? If you honestly still believed in Martial in 2023 then bless your little cotton socks.

Anyways not speaking about this anymore, don't want to derail any further.


I'm still not excited for this potential signing.
 
Judas said:
Because of common sense? If you honestly still believed in Martial in 2023 then bless your little cotton socks.

Anyways not speaking about this anymore, don't want to derail any further.


I'm still not excited for this potential signing.
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Like the common sense of creating non existent narratives and then making decisions based on them? Brilliant

You can dislike the potential signing all you want, the fact remains it makes sense based on the attributes EtH likes in a striker.
 
devilish said:
England and Capello was a match made from hell. Capello is a dictator, an ahole and a perfectionist. You live, you breathe and you die for football. England is, well, England. Its the nation that produce the rashfords, sanchos, Lingards and the Gazzas. The talent is there but it's an arm on the shoulder style of management. Capello can't and won't do that. He is like Keane but more arrogant, meaner and more successful

However you are free to check his CV. Spoiler alert its better then koeman
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And he
devilish said:
England and Capello was a match made from hell. Capello is a dictator, an ahole and a perfectionist. You live, you breathe and you die for football. England is, well, England. Its the nation that produce the rashfords, sanchos, Lingards and the Gazzas. The talent is there but it's an arm on the shoulder style of management. Capello can't and won't do that. He is like Keane but more arrogant, meaner and more successful

However you are free to check his CV. Spoiler alert its better then koeman
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He had the likes of Gerard, Lampard, Rio, Terry and Rooney at his disposal that were coached by Fergie and Jose whom I am sure were not coached with an arm on the shoulder as you like to call it and he could do feck all with them when it mattered.
Koeman is one of the greatest Dutch footballers in their history and I am sure his judgement of a footballer whom he watches at close quarters is the one that I will stick with thank you very much but if you feel an allegiance with old grumpy then you go with it.
 
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