Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United

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croadyman said:
Can Ugarte play as a lone 6 though or is that not the kind of role outlined in this formation. Would have nice to see this guy in Euros but seems he is well down the pecking order for Koeman
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I'm not sure about Ugarte because I've not watched him much but another player we have been linked with Edson Alvarez defintely can.

However, Mainoo & Bruno wont be playing the 2 attacking midfielders role protected by one CDM as we saw with Casemiro.

This is because
1. Mainoo is not an attacking midfielder
2. Zirkzee playing as a False 9 kind of stops the reason for playing a CAM and more for CM's to make runs in to the box. This can work with Bruno, Mount, Mainoo & even Mctominay.

Mainoo-Ugarte-Bruno Fernandes
Zirkzee
RF-LF
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Is more the set up of a midfield 3 with mainoo having defensive abilities, Ugarte having defensive abilities & Bruno also having defensive abilities like a crazy engine.

This also gives us two players in midfield for creative purposes both Mainoo & Bruno Fermandes can make nice deadly passes.

You then add Zirkzee like a cherry on top of that and he is also a more creative forward than a goalscorer and then suddenly United have tons of creativity not even including players like Lisandro Martinez, Shaw or Dalot or a new ball playing RCB.

Whilst i think the RF& LF role will be mainly split between our inverted forwards and Hojlund more like a different tactical option when we want to use it -

I also do think playing Hojlund more like an inverted forward as a RF/RW but very narrowly could really benefit him because he is a channel running attacker who wants to get in behind the back line & finish chances off (not holding up the play like a target man) not too dissimilar to how Rashford likes to make runs in behind the defense and score. Consider how David Villa was a striker before turning in to a deadly LW/LF at Barcelona with Messi playing as the false 9.

Also i think Koeman is just old school to see the benefit of a player like Zirzkee. He sees Depay as his main striker when he could be using players like Gakpo, Malen, Depay all trying to finish chances off from out wide whilst Zirzkee becomes their false 9 creative forward.

So him not getting picked for Netherlands says more about Koeman than it does about Zirkzee imo.
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Acrobat7 said:
Bologna cannot tell him, that he „must make a decision this week“.

Why „must he“? Bologna can‘t do anything.
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He is still there player. I am sure they can ask him or his agent whether he plans to stay or leave. Surely he'll have that much courtesy for his current club, rather than telling Bologna to do one as he'll so whatever he wants, whenever he wants as he has a release clause.
 
Insanity said:
He is still there player. I am sure they can ask him or his agent whether he plans to stay or leave. Surely he'll have that much courtesy for his current club, rather than telling Bologna to do one as he'll so whatever he wants, whenever he wants as he has a release clause.
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Of course they can ask him. But that tweet made it sound as if Bologna has any kind of authority about timeline or Zirkzee staying. That is why I called it a trash source.
 
Don't release clauses typically have to be paid out all at once? Could be a roadblock given our cash flow issues.
 
Sounds like everything is agreed and we are close to "here we go".

Super excited about this signing, to be honest. I think he is a good player and we DEFINITELY need a proper striker, not only because we play way too many games for just Hojlund, but Hojlund is human and doesn't always have the best form, so competition is 1000% necessary.

Zirkzee may still not work out, there are no guarantees but I love the kind of player we are going for:
1. Young
2. Under or around 50M fee (even with crazy agent commissions of around 10 Million)
3. Coming on reasonable wages (unless we do something stupid)
4. Full of potential
5. Good attitude, a fighter

This is exactly what we need at this stage of our development. We cannot afford galacticos and we do not need finished-article primadonas. People need to understand that for the next couple of years we are trying to de-throne Aston Villa, not City, or Arsenal. So yes, it is fine to buy players that Villa would buy but City may not. As long as we have a strategy and as long as we are building a fighting team. Now is not the time to chase established super stars. We need to get back to stability and top 4. Winning premiership is the goal for future transfer windows
 
Considering he was never really on my radar as a potential striker signing this summer, i’d now be pretty pissed off if we failed to sign him. Despite barely watching the guy! :lol:
 
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
 
Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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Wouldn't Toney be around 70-80?
 
Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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Toney? We're trying to get rid of unprofessional troublemakers. Not add more.
 
Nicolarra90 said:
Wouldn't Toney be around 70-80?
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I heard that Brentford had dropped their valuation to the £50-£60 million mark.

I’m not too fussed about signing Toney but we need someone that’s going to score goals.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Considering he was never really on my radar as a potential striker signing this summer, i’d now be pretty pissed off if we failed to sign him. Despite barely watching the guy! :lol:
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Yep mostly same feelings but the data people I respect on Twitter seem to think he's not that good so I'm ambivalent about it now.

Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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Yep I think we'll have some options at 50m or so. We could even stick Bruno / Rashford up there in a pinch if Hojlund's not doing well. It's one area I hope we know what we're doing.
 
Snow said:
Toney? We're trying to get rid of unprofessional troublemakers. Not add more.
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Garethw said:
I heard that Brentford had dropped their valuation to the £50-£60 million mark.

I’m not too fussed about signing Toney but we need someone that’s going to score goals.
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Toney is neither unprofessional nor a trouble-maker, he is a gambling addict who got in trouble for it, but seems to be managing it now. And he is definitely a good striker.

However, the real difference is that Toney is 28 years old, he is looking for his last, big deal before retirement. Zirkzee is 23 and he needs to reach his top to get to wanting his last paycheck. That is a huge difference. Where we are in our development we need Zirkzee-type deals, not Toney type deals.

Also, Zirkzee release clause is 40 million EUROS, not pounds, with estimated commission at additional 10 million euros, so it's 50 million EUROS i.e. only 42 million pounds. There is no way anybody is giving us Toney for that price. Last time it was quoted to us he was 70 million pounds plus. Even if they lowered it to 60, that is still 18 million pounds more than Zirkzee and we are short of cash. Also we should pay Toney more salary than Zirkzee, unless we do something stupid
 
Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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And what makes you think Toney is the answer to this? Take away his penalties and he's very average and is a gambling addict to boot who just came back from being banned for 6 months.

It amuses me that people don't rate Hojlund yet at the same time suggest Toney as the alternative.
 
Teja said:
Yep mostly same feelings but the data people I respect on Twitter seem to think he's not that good so I'm ambivalent about it now.
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I’m the same in the sense if you look at pure numbers he doesn’t stack up that well, but I’m thinking he’s more of a Firmino striker on the sense he doesn’t post up high numbers but Is really beneficial in terms of link up play and bringing in other attackers. However, that relies on our current wide men producing more or we bring in other players that can do so.
 
Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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Why we go for a gambling addict. I dont want any of them near our precious club.
 
Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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Toney's PL record without Penalties hardly screams of a player on whom you can rely upon for regular goals either , it seems his reputation is quite inflated relative to his exploits on the field among fans .
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Hasn’t he already agreed terms and all with Milan when we went in? Could be mistaken.
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Yeah, but we can likely beat Milan to this signing, and the earliest they were going to pay his release clause is also July 1st.
 
NewGlory said:
Sounds like everything is agreed and we are close to "here we go".

Super excited about this signing, to be honest. I think he is a good player and we DEFINITELY need a proper striker, not only because we play way too many games for just Hojlund, but Hojlund is human and doesn't always have the best form, so competition is 1000% necessary.

Zirkzee may still not work out, there are no guarantees but I love the kind of player we are going for:
1. Young
2. Under or around 50M fee (even with crazy agent commissions of around 10 Million)
3. Coming on reasonable wages (unless we do something stupid)
4. Full of potential
5. Good attitude, a fighter

This is exactly what we need at this stage of our development. We cannot afford galacticos and we do not need finished-article primadonas. People need to understand that for the next couple of years we are trying to de-throne Aston Villa, not City, or Arsenal. So yes, it is fine to buy players that Villa would buy but City may not. As long as we have a strategy and as long as we are building a fighting team. Now is not the time to chase established super stars. We need to get back to stability and top 4. Winning premiership is the goal for future transfer windows
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Agreed. But even without buying superstars we can challenge eventually. I wouldn’t say Arsenal have a world class squad or many world class players. Only city have a squad full of superstars but again not many of their squad was superstars before they joined them. So we can buy players that suit a system and turn them into superstars. I’d rather have a team that work well and play well together than a few superstars, more often than not it causes unrest in dressing rooms as they try to focus on the superstars and getting the ball to them all the time which makes you play very poorly. Bit like France in the euros. To focussed on Mbappe.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
I’m the same in the sense if you look at pure numbers he doesn’t stack up that well, but I’m thinking he’s more of a Firmino striker on the sense he doesn’t post up high numbers but Is really beneficial in terms of link up play and bringing in other attackers. However, that relies on our current wide men producing more or we bring in other players that can do so.
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Firmino averaged 13.8 goals preseason across his 8 years at Liverpool. Also averaged 9 assists preseason. That is probably a good benchmark of what to expect from Zirkzee if he comes here numbers wise.

Though I am still abit confused how he and Hoijlund play in the same team unless you go two up top a 9 and a 10. Firmino was Liverpool's no9, and it was Salah and Mane cutting in and being fed from the movement and play of firmino. We aren't following the exact same model as liverpool, so I'm curious as to how it would work.
 
NewGlory said:
Toney is neither unprofessional nor a trouble-maker, he is a gambling addict who got in trouble for it, but seems to be managing it now. And he is definitely a good striker.

However, the real difference is that Toney is 28 years old, he is looking for his last, big deal before retirement. Zirkzee is 23 and he needs to reach his top to get to wanting his last paycheck. That is a huge difference. Where we are in our development we need Zirkzee-type deals, not Toney type deals.

Also, Zirkzee release clause is 40 million EUROS, not pounds, with estimated commission at additional 10 million euros, so it's 50 million EUROS i.e. only 42 million pounds. There is no way anybody is giving us Toney for that price. Last time it was quoted to us he was 70 million pounds plus. Even if they lowered it to 60, that is still 18 million pounds more than Zirkzee and we are short of cash. Also we should pay Toney more salary than Zirkzee, unless we do something stupid
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Yes he is. He's been caught multiple times bad mouthing Brentford to random fans and generally comes across as arrogant. He's not a gambling addict, he's just thick and didn't realize he couldn't bet on games he was a part of. If you watch his diary of CEO interview, there's no real admission of any responsibility from him - just feigned ignorance to the rules. Etherington was a gambling addict, Toney just bet on the wrong things and got caught.
 
NewGlory said:
Toney is neither unprofessional nor a trouble-maker, he is a gambling addict who got in trouble for it, but seems to be managing it now. And he is definitely a good striker.

However, the real difference is that Toney is 28 years old, he is looking for his last, big deal before retirement. Zirkzee is 23 and he needs to reach his top to get to wanting his last paycheck. That is a huge difference. Where we are in our development we need Zirkzee-type deals, not Toney type deals.

Also, Zirkzee release clause is 40 million EUROS, not pounds, with estimated commission at additional 10 million euros, so it's 50 million EUROS i.e. only 42 million pounds. There is no way anybody is giving us Toney for that price. Last time it was quoted to us he was 70 million pounds plus. Even if they lowered it to 60, that is still 18 million pounds more than Zirkzee and we are short of cash. Also we should pay Toney more salary than Zirkzee, unless we do something stupid
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Of course he's a troublemaker. He got a lengthy ban for something he did outside of football. That's concerning. Him being an addict is a distraction and something he and his club can deal with and not invite that toxicity to our club.

As for his football, he doesn't fit our style. He doesn't press the ball in the way the manager requires a player to press. That was one of the big things Ronaldo was unhappy about. You think he won't expect the same of Toney as he expected of Ronaldo?
 
Garethw said:
If this is going to end up costing about £50 million then surely we are better off going for a proven PL striker like Toney? The last thing we need is another striker that doesn’t score goals regularly.
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Toney is just the kind of player we should avoid - expensive, turns 29 next march - and on the back of a really poor season
 
I told you guys. Its been reported zirkzee isn’t interested in coming to united and its his agent drumming up the move. Lets move on
 
georgegroves said:
I told you guys. Its been reported zirkzee isn’t interested in coming to united and its his agent drumming up the move. Lets move on
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Oh ok thanks mate do you wanna close the thread or should I?
 
DJ_21 said:
Agreed. But even without buying superstars we can challenge eventually. I wouldn’t say Arsenal have a world class squad or many world class players. Only city have a squad full of superstars but again not many of their squad was superstars before they joined them. So we can buy players that suit a system and turn them into superstars. I’d rather have a team that work well and play well together than a few superstars, more often than not it causes unrest in dressing rooms as they try to focus on the superstars and getting the ball to them all the time which makes you play very poorly. Bit like France in the euros. To focussed on Mbappe.
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Amen!
 
Lash said:
Yes he is. He's been caught multiple times bad mouthing Brentford to random fans and generally comes across as arrogant. He's not a gambling addict, he's just thick and didn't realize he couldn't bet on games he was a part of. If you watch his diary of CEO interview, there's no real admission of any responsibility from him - just feigned ignorance to the rules. Etherington was a gambling addict, Toney just bet on the wrong things and got caught.
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Snow said:
Of course he's a troublemaker. He got a lengthy ban for something he did outside of football. That's concerning. Him being an addict is a distraction and something he and his club can deal with and not invite that toxicity to our club.

As for his football, he doesn't fit our style. He doesn't press the ball in the way the manager requires a player to press. That was one of the big things Ronaldo was unhappy about. You think he won't expect the same of Toney as he expected of Ronaldo?
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ok. He is too old and too expensive for us, anyway, so we can move away from him, for variety of reasons? :)
 
croadyman said:
OK who we moving on to then?
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We’ll be looking at the German Maximilian Beier whose a huge downgrade however he’s more suited to the back up role, if we are going to get serious this season we should go after Osimhen and see if we can do a £55m plus Greenwood value him at £35m. We need a number 9 that scores goals, Rasmus will develop but right now as he showed in the Euros he needs another 1-2 years development.
 
Every time I come in here I’m hoping I see it confirmed that Milan have signed him.
 
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