tried and tested PL player. Have any idea how much that would cost??
Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United
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tried and tested PL player. Have any idea how much that would cost??
Cheers mate. So a transfer that at worst is nice to have but not a big miss if he goes elsewhere.
This is just the typical hopeful posts we get in the summer. Rashford doesn’t need anyone to get the best out of him. In 22/23 he played with all sorts of combos and did well. He’s just not a reliable player so I don’t see any player getting the best out of Rashford especially not Zirkzee. Hojlund taking wide positions reminds me of when people said we could play Zlatan/Sanchez up front and Lukaku out wide and it happened once I believe and was dreadful.
I just think this is another potentially badly thought out signing. Almost reminds me of Mount in a sense, with a lot of people struggling to see how it addresses our main weaknesses.
Signing a false 9 when the team has poor finishers in the wide positions and already has one of the best No.10s in the world is the type of poor transfer business that has plagued us the last decade.
Ok, who do you suggest?
Depends. He's Isak without the goals, but damn he'd make watching United a pleasure, results be damned
In a "haha they're shit" way?
Also, is he that bad at finishing? He looks very good in general play for a striker. It's a shame he's not got the composure infront of goal.
Had someone told me 2 years ago that there would be a big transfer thread of Zirkzee going to United I wouldn‘t have believed it.
In a "haha they're shit" way?
Also, is he that bad at finishing? He looks very good in general play for a striker. It's a shame he's not got the composure infront of goal.
He’s not a terrible finisher, he just doesn’t spend much time in the box and the six yard box is like a totally foreign country to him if you look at his shot charts. Think of him as like a bigger, not quite as skilled Joao Felix.
In terms of shot location he is basically the polar opposite of Hojlund, who lives in and around the six yard box but rarely gets on the end of anything anywhere else.
To be fair that reads like he'd be better suited to Rashford and Garnacho, who don't really want to be delivering service to strikers with crosses all game.
Yeah, I think he’d be a very good complement to both players and likely fit them better than Hojlund.
No, in a "Now I can almost know what Milan and Ajax fans in the 80/90s felt watching Marco Van Basten"In a "haha they're shit" way?
Also, is he that bad at finishing? He looks very good in general play for a striker. It's a shame he's not got the composure infront of goal.
He's not a poor finisher at all, just doesn't get a lot of chances
Is an observation I made watching his highlights few days ago. Now it's only highlights and regular watchers will know better but I feel it's due to him coming deep and staying rather than getting into the box.
That's a big part of it, but also he's just not very good at getting into good positions
Fair enough. I think that is something that can be coached provided he has the right application in training.
Put it this way... I'd rather have Zirkzee signed as the "#10" of our (Milan's) 4231 formation, than as our #9.
I legitimately think he's much better suited to that role.
I legitimately think he's much better suited to that role.
Depay is 5 goals away from being their all time scorer, he's played upfront long before Koeman
Just to put some context to some of the fans who dont understand why we would go for a 13 goal striker in Serie A -
I think the player he would resemble most currently is Havertz at Arsenal 2nd half of last season. A Player who plays CF more for his positioning and interlinking than particularly goals. I actually think they are quite same physically in terms of height etc.
He would be playing the Havertz role for us whilst Hojlund would be more our Gabriel Jesus type striker.
I think the player he would resemble most currently is Havertz at Arsenal 2nd half of last season. A Player who plays CF more for his positioning and interlinking than particularly goals. I actually think they are quite same physically in terms of height etc.
He would be playing the Havertz role for us whilst Hojlund would be more our Gabriel Jesus type striker.
Because you were certain he'd be leading the line for Bayern and far too good for you to ever consider letting go? Right? Right?!?
If that's not proof that there are too many international matches these days I don't know what is.
He is not better than Wout, but is younger and twice the price. He offers us something we don't have at least
Current Wout or peak Wout?
Yes, he is better than Wout.
To put a context to you, a fan who doesn't understand why other are sceptical: Arsenal have a well defined style of play and score a lot of team goals, and still they came up short and at times could have used a proper striker to get over the line.
We don't have a style of play, still depend on individual moments and don't have high goal scoring wide men like Liverpool during the Mane & Salah hayday to pick up the slack.
He's really a joy to watch overall... But I just can't wrap my head around his valuation for a guy who is expected to play as a 9, but isn't one.
It could work, who knows... Milan also heavily linked w Dovbyk, who I admittedly haven't seen enough of, but is definitely more the type we need, imo.
It could work, who knows... Milan also heavily linked w Dovbyk, who I admittedly haven't seen enough of, but is definitely more the type we need, imo.
Sure. Dominic Solanke. That will be £60mil please.
Or how about Isak? That will be £100mil, please.
Too expensive? How about bottom end of PL proven? Danny Igns? £15-£20mil.
This is why at £34mil Zirkzee is worth a punt. If he'd signed for AC Milan and had a season at Milan like he did at Bologna, then he'd be north of £70mil.
Trent playing ahead of Mainoo.
Why? From what I can gather he was really highly rated at Feyenoord and in youth football and started off really well at Bayern at 18. Was eventually loaned to Anderlecht and got a respectable number of goals and he was sold to Bologna while his stock was high. Good business from Bayern and no shame in not making it there with the options they have had. Then he struggled to get into the team past arnaotovic as Motta only wanted to play one up front for his first season but majorly stepped up become a leader in their last season. It all points to a hardworking guy who is a slightly late developer but who is clearly talented and on an upward trajectory and provides us something tactically different at an affordable price. Yes there’s a clear risk as with all transfers but that’s where Utd are at this moment in time.
PL clubs have a lot money and fans think 40m Euros is chump change when we paid 70m+ (including add-ons) for a raw young striker worth 20m from another Serie A club last season. English football is a different reality to the Serie A (or the rest of the world), where a player of Zirkzee's quality and skills should be worth 25m Euros + maybe some addons or some cheap prospect.
I am surprised too why Milan are going for him, a false 9. Dobvyk is more in the ilk of strikers they need.
Zirkzee said that Thiago motta changed his game from a 10 to a 9.5. Perhaps he can be coached to a 9. But he looks best in between the midfield and CF position.
Full interview transcript is below, quite interesting read:
You only seem to score beautiful goals: choose one. The brilliant one scored at Inter?
‘In the Coppa Italia I really liked the one scored against Cesena by faking the opposition defender. At Inter? At the end of the match Sommer and I spoke: he told me that he felt a bit guilty for having made a mistake, so I don’t consider it a perfect goal. So I choose the one that represents me in every way, at Sassuolo: heel control and a goalkeeper who has no ‘chance’. It all comes naturally to me. Yes, in Reggio Emilia it was all me, my qualities”.
You don’t seem to feel pressure when you play: is that the case or do you not feel it?
‘Before the match I feel it a lot: precisely because I don’t want to disappoint my coach, my teammates, the people who shout my name. Before I feel the excitement of wanting to do things right, the fire on me: when the match starts I am back to my old self and I express that fire in my own way’.
We called you a ‘nine and a half’: role, centre forward; quality, a ten. Do you agree?
“Yes, I like the idea. When I was younger I also played as a number 10, in Feyenoord’s baby team, or even as an 11 in Den Haag. Wherever Motta puts me, I stay. I like being able to play the ball, that’s it…’.
It’s understood… Last year we saw little of you: there was Marko Arnautovic.
“We had and have a great relationship: when I scored my first goal this season, the first phone call was from Marko. I’m not ashamed to say that I was happy when he went to Inter: a place opened up (smiles, ed). What did he say to me? ‘Now it’s your turn’. After the holidays I went back to training and I told myself: do whatever you have to do not to let anyone down. I think I’ve grown up. As a child I watched Ibra, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo the Phenomeno, Van Basten, then I played with Lewandowski and Arnautovic: but I never asked the latter two for opinions or tricks. I watched them. I absorbed notions, plays. And the rest I put in, of my own.
You have a lot of self-confidence: has that ever given you problems?
“I find that believing in oneself is an added value. But always with the idea of working well and improving. Yes, in the past it has led me to difficult moments: if I had something I didn’t like, I would tell my coaches to their faces. Always. If you asked an old coach of mine “how was Joshua?” he would answer “a good player, but a bit undisciplined”. In the past I didn’t control certain emotions, now I have grown up a bit. It still happens that I say something but the important thing is that after the training or the competition, friends like before. You grow in that too’.
Motta called you ‘the symbol of Bologna’. Why and how did you arrive at this compliment?
‘It’s a nice compliment, really. But it’s not just me here: we all know what we have to do and what we want to do, just as I know what my qualities are. This is a good group, do you know why? It can happen in a locker room that some people have problems: well, we talk about it, we confront each other, we give each other a hand, once a week we even all go to dinner. We’re an international team and Motta has taught us to always look ahead and higher. We are good together.
At the top is Europe.
“The road is long and you have to work hard every day. If you ask me what I prefer between making Bologna great or going to play for a big team soon, I’ll tell you that the right choice is the first: to make Bologna great. Then we’ll see.
Do you know that Bayern Munich, if they wanted you back, would have to shell out €40 million for an exclusive release clause?
‘Yes? Now I know… In Munich I became an adult, but let’s say that street football formed me: because it’s a duel all the time, you fight for yourself, if you fall on the asphalt you hurt yourself a lot and then you train to stand up, because you feel free to play. A school of life, of football, where you have to improve yourself every day. I never came home, like many children. And Mama Doris would get so mad. How many scoldings I got…’.
Other sports you play?
‘I like playing golf because it’s soothing: here in Bologna I haven’t done it yet. And basketball, although I’ve only played it with friends. The greatest ever for me? Iverson, but my dog’s name is Kobe, like Bryant. When I’m away from football I like the Playstation but above all walking with Kobe: me, him and our thoughts’.
What do you want to be able to dream of, when you grow up, football-wise?
“To get to play in the World Cup with my country, Holland, and to win the Champions League once again after the one I experienced with Bayern Munich: I’d like to lift that cup again; let’s be clear, even having a marginal role in the team…”.
Can you define Motta in three words?
“Good question. Motta is Motta. He always makes us look ahead or higher, but Motta is the coach. Full stop.”
Make an effort…
“Well… If you ask me what Orsolini is like, I say crazy, he plays crazy good and scores goals. If you ask me about Aebischer I say he doesn’t miss a ball, intelligent and a leader. If you want to know about Saelemaekers I say he talks a lot, ‘harassing’ and a great player. If you say De Silvestri I say leader, music and the most pleasant person in the world. But Motta is the coach. And that’s it
You don’t seem to feel pressure when you play: is that the case or do you not feel it?
‘Before the match I feel it a lot: precisely because I don’t want to disappoint my coach, my teammates, the people who shout my name. Before I feel the excitement of wanting to do things right, the fire on me: when the match starts I am back to my old self and I express that fire in my own way’.
We called you a ‘nine and a half’: role, centre forward; quality, a ten. Do you agree?
“Yes, I like the idea. When I was younger I also played as a number 10, in Feyenoord’s baby team, or even as an 11 in Den Haag. Wherever Motta puts me, I stay. I like being able to play the ball, that’s it…’.
It’s understood… Last year we saw little of you: there was Marko Arnautovic.
“We had and have a great relationship: when I scored my first goal this season, the first phone call was from Marko. I’m not ashamed to say that I was happy when he went to Inter: a place opened up (smiles, ed). What did he say to me? ‘Now it’s your turn’. After the holidays I went back to training and I told myself: do whatever you have to do not to let anyone down. I think I’ve grown up. As a child I watched Ibra, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo the Phenomeno, Van Basten, then I played with Lewandowski and Arnautovic: but I never asked the latter two for opinions or tricks. I watched them. I absorbed notions, plays. And the rest I put in, of my own.
You have a lot of self-confidence: has that ever given you problems?
“I find that believing in oneself is an added value. But always with the idea of working well and improving. Yes, in the past it has led me to difficult moments: if I had something I didn’t like, I would tell my coaches to their faces. Always. If you asked an old coach of mine “how was Joshua?” he would answer “a good player, but a bit undisciplined”. In the past I didn’t control certain emotions, now I have grown up a bit. It still happens that I say something but the important thing is that after the training or the competition, friends like before. You grow in that too’.
Motta called you ‘the symbol of Bologna’. Why and how did you arrive at this compliment?
‘It’s a nice compliment, really. But it’s not just me here: we all know what we have to do and what we want to do, just as I know what my qualities are. This is a good group, do you know why? It can happen in a locker room that some people have problems: well, we talk about it, we confront each other, we give each other a hand, once a week we even all go to dinner. We’re an international team and Motta has taught us to always look ahead and higher. We are good together.
At the top is Europe.
“The road is long and you have to work hard every day. If you ask me what I prefer between making Bologna great or going to play for a big team soon, I’ll tell you that the right choice is the first: to make Bologna great. Then we’ll see.
Do you know that Bayern Munich, if they wanted you back, would have to shell out €40 million for an exclusive release clause?
‘Yes? Now I know… In Munich I became an adult, but let’s say that street football formed me: because it’s a duel all the time, you fight for yourself, if you fall on the asphalt you hurt yourself a lot and then you train to stand up, because you feel free to play. A school of life, of football, where you have to improve yourself every day. I never came home, like many children. And Mama Doris would get so mad. How many scoldings I got…’.
Other sports you play?
‘I like playing golf because it’s soothing: here in Bologna I haven’t done it yet. And basketball, although I’ve only played it with friends. The greatest ever for me? Iverson, but my dog’s name is Kobe, like Bryant. When I’m away from football I like the Playstation but above all walking with Kobe: me, him and our thoughts’.
What do you want to be able to dream of, when you grow up, football-wise?
“To get to play in the World Cup with my country, Holland, and to win the Champions League once again after the one I experienced with Bayern Munich: I’d like to lift that cup again; let’s be clear, even having a marginal role in the team…”.
Can you define Motta in three words?
“Good question. Motta is Motta. He always makes us look ahead or higher, but Motta is the coach. Full stop.”
Make an effort…
“Well… If you ask me what Orsolini is like, I say crazy, he plays crazy good and scores goals. If you ask me about Aebischer I say he doesn’t miss a ball, intelligent and a leader. If you want to know about Saelemaekers I say he talks a lot, ‘harassing’ and a great player. If you say De Silvestri I say leader, music and the most pleasant person in the world. But Motta is the coach. And that’s it
Cause Koeman is a bellend of a manager. Depay was getting torn apart by the punts at halftime during their last game. Possibly the laziest and most egotistical footballer I have seen.
Rooney said it at half time: "...only two players in world football can walk about on the pitch without having to press or do any of the hard work off the ball. Depay isn't one of them. (obviously he means CR7 and Messi).
Same buyout clause of 40M too. And for sure an agent who isn't as braindead as Kia.
Anyways, new coach in town and who knows, perhaps he wants the Zirkzee type as his 9... Conversely, perhaps he wants the Dovbyk type, as DiMarzio has stated several times we have a full agreement in place for him as well, but Zirkzee is the priority.
Which seems like one camp is lying... They're 2 totally different players, so why would one be the alternative to the other?
Fabrizio Romano: "United did not start the Zirkzee operation today towards closure: they have taken information on the players clause. But they have has also inquired about other strikers and are aware that Zirkzee has Milan as a priority: when they went to see him several times, they had this feedback that the player's priority is Milan."
https://www.sosfanta.com/news/info-...ted-commissioni-kia-clausola-volonta-e-tempi/
https://www.sosfanta.com/news/info-...ted-commissioni-kia-clausola-volonta-e-tempi/
I am surprised too. Seems like Milan is the player's priority rather than the other way around.
You can never be sure what's true or not during transfer windows as the clubs and agents are all use these "journalists" to get a beneficial deal.
He does seem bent on staying in Italy, so it's absolutely plausible that his priority is Milan.
That said I definitely do believe Milan like him too. I just have trouble wrapping my head around him as a 9. As a 10 in our 4231, I totally get it.
Dovbyk AND Zirkzee, now we're talking... But too many holes to fix for that for now.
He is not even playing ffs.
Also Milan have CL football next season. Plus it's AC Milan. The Milan giants are a huge draw for any player.
That could be interesting but I think they'll get in each others way as Zirkzee is not a proper 10. Unless Fonseca likes to play a 2 striker formation. I actually have no idea what kind of style he prefers.
On another note: what are your views on Calafiori?
Koeman is a strange manager and always sticks with the usual suspects. Even Frimpong who has been smashing it for two seasons has only just broken into the team, which is crazy given they already play a wing-back system in which he evidently excels. Koeman is just your classic ultra stubborn international manager who doesn’t trust youth and hates squad changes.
I thought when he left Bayern he was intent on the PL? Maybe he's fallen in love with Italy
Isn’t Zirkzee the guy from 300?
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