Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United

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Berbasbullet said:
Is he sort of like Firmino?
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Yeah, or Bruno (@devilish showed how their heatmaps overlap a lot), or Jesus apparently. But then that's his role at Bologna, @devilish also pointed out that he had been a fairly prolific striker at Anderlecht, when he was put in goalscoring role.

So I don't know what's intended here, but he might be seen as a back-up/successor to Bruno rather than Højlund - or the City game plan (Bruno as a false 9) might be intended to be used more. Either way, United most likely aren't seeing Zirkzee as someone who can replicate Højlund's role when the latter's unavailable.
 
Cheimoon said:
Yeah, or Bruno (@devilish showed how their heatmaps overlap a lot), or Jesus apparently. But then that's his role at Bologna, @devilish also pointed out that he had been a fairly prolific striker at Anderlecht, when he was put in goalscoring role.

So I don't know what's intended here, but he might be seen as a back-up/successor to Bruno rather than Højlund - or the City game plan (Bruno as a false 9) might be intended to be used more. Either way, United most likely aren't seeing Zirkzee as someone who can replicate Højlund's role when the latter's unavailable.
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I can see a scenario were he develop as a very long term successor for Bruno and there will be games were he can play instead of him. However for the near future he'll certainly be Hojlund's cover/competition. If we sign him then from a purely club politics perspective we'll have another Cole/Ole situation. Ole was not a big enough name to demand playing week in week out yet Cole knew that one dip in form was enough for Ole to pounce and claim his first team place. The only difference is that unlike Ole and the treble side, Zirkzee suits this Manchester United squad better then the Hojlund does. The likes of Rashford and Garnacho would certainly love someone like Zirkzee (who drops deep, work hard and drags defenders away from them)
 
Cheimoon said:
Yeah, or Bruno (@devilish showed how their heatmaps overlap a lot), or Jesus apparently. But then that's his role at Bologna, @devilish also pointed out that he had been a fairly prolific striker at Anderlecht, when he was put in goalscoring role.

So I don't know what's intended here, but he might be seen as a back-up/successor to Bruno rather than Højlund - or the City game plan (Bruno as a false 9) might be intended to be used more. Either way, United most likely aren't seeing Zirkzee as someone who can replicate Højlund's role when the latter's unavailable.
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I’m looking at it like Haaland - Alvarez they are not like for like at all, but those are city’s two main striking options. If you want to change your approach you sub one for the other, you’re going for a win you bring one in to compliment the other and load the frontline.
 
moses said:
If he comes here and develops he may even get ahead of Wout in the Dutch squad.
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I believe that would be what the kids call trending in the right direction. With time, patience and an eight year contract, he may even one day become a a slightly lesser player than Danny Welbeck
 
moses said:
If he comes here and develops he may even get ahead of Wout in the Dutch squad.
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quite frankly the obsession with Wout is as much of a mystery as England's obsession with Emile Heskey back in the day
 
Brophs said:
I believe that would be what the kids call trending in the right direction. With time, patience and an eight year contract, he may even one day become a a slightly lesser player than Danny Welbeck
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You can only hope. Transfers are a gamble. But if we give him huge wages he might stay and keep at it.
 
This transfer makes sense. I would be over the moon with Toney (or some other high profile striker) but club don't want to stop Hojlund's progress. So we are searching for someone who will not mind being a backup.

I would still go for Toney of course. :cool:
 
Andycoleno9 said:
This transfer makes sense. I would be over the moon with Toney (or some other high profile striker) but club don't want to stop Hojlund's progress. So we are searching for someone who will not mind being a backup.

I would still go for Toney of course. :cool:
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Ye they can both compete for a starting spot. I do think they both have complete different styles though and our style of play will change when the other one’s playing. None of them are probably gonna get us 15+ goals a season though so we need to start asking where’s our goals coming from?
 
Could we pull off a double deal for him and Calafiori for 60m?

Read the latter only has a 21.3M price tag with Bologna, might be the cheapest quality CB signing possible this summer
 
I don't see it so much as a competition between Hojlund and Zirkzee. We'll be playing Thurs and Sunday for most of the year, it's best we have two center forwards to keep fitness.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye they can both compete for a starting spot. I do think they both have complete different styles though and our style of play will change when the other one’s playing. None of them are probably gonna get us 15+ goals a season though so we need to start asking where’s our goals coming from?
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We need a left sided winger to help out with this, by both providing and assisting, because one thing is for sure, Rashford isn't going to be doing that.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
This transfer makes sense. I would be over the moon with Toney (or some other high profile striker) but club don't want to stop Hojlund's progress. So we are searching for someone who will not mind being a backup.

I would still go for Toney of course. :cool:
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We won't go for Toney, fully expecting him to sign for Spurs/Chelsea after the Euros
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye they can both compete for a starting spot. I do think they both have complete different styles though and our style of play will change when the other one’s playing. None of them are probably gonna get us 15+ goals a season though so we need to start asking where’s our goals coming from?
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Højlund got 16 this season and I would expect him to get more next season. Even in the league he got ten. Are you saying you don't see him adding to that?
 
OsloRed said:
Højlund got 16 this season and I would expect him to get more next season. Even in the league he got ten. Are you saying you don't see him adding to that?
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I'm saying someone like Toney takes pressure off,however sadly we haven't got the budget to sign him and doesn't fit the Ratcliffe criteria either
 
OsloRed said:
Højlund got 16 this season and I would expect him to get more next season. Even in the league he got ten. Are you saying you don't see him adding to that?
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He won’t add to that unless we change a few things including our selfish wingers and sign some creative ones that love to supply for their ST. Also he won’t add to that if we sign Zirkzee and he outshines him because he won’t be starting many. He’s not exactly shined in the euros either so his confidence will be low.
 
DJ_21 said:
He won’t add to that unless we change a few things including our selfish wingers and sign some creative ones that love to supply for their ST. Also he won’t add to that if we sign Zirkzee and he outshines him because he won’t be starting many. He’s not exactly shined in the euros either so his confidence will be low.
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International performance rarely ever carries into the next season tbh.
 
croadyman said:
I'm saying someone like Toney takes pressure off,however sadly we haven't got the budget to sign him and doesn't fit the Ratcliffe criteria either
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I agree with that, never gonna get Toney this year. Next year a striker like that is hopefully far down our list due to our options due to our existing options improving. I was more reacting to your statement that Højlund probably won't get us 15 goals a season. He got 10 in the league in a season where he was adapting to a new league at a young age, struggled with some injuries and had very little actual service - all of witch hopefully improves next season. What do you think would be a realistic expectation of him? I'd be pretty sure he'll get above twenty in all comps and 15+ in the league wouldn't seem too unrealistic either, injury permitting.

If we sign Zirkzee, then hopefully they could play together when needed as well. Their different profiles should complement each other pretty well.
 
DJ_21 said:
He won’t add to that unless we change a few things including our selfish wingers and sign some creative ones that love to supply for their ST. Also he won’t add to that if we sign Zirkzee and he outshines him because he won’t be starting many. He’s not exactly shined in the euros either so his confidence will be low.
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That is a very pessimistic view. This season has been a freak season. I would expect us to improve quite a bit next season, even if we don't add that much in the market. Believing that we'll only improve our attacking output if we sign completely new wingers is, like I said, extremely pessimistic.
 
I don't get this clamouring for Toney really. He's had 4 seasons at Brentford playing 138 games scoring 70 goals, 31 of them are from when they were in Championship. So, 89 games in all comps since they were promoted to Prem and a total of 39 goals scored out of which 12 were penalties. Let's be honest, as long as Bruno is here he's not going to take any penalties for us. Also add in being banned for 6 months for betting scandal, it's certainly baffling.
 
OsloRed said:
That is a very pessimistic view. This season has been a freak season. I would expect us to improve quite a bit next season, even if we don't add that much in the market. Believing that we'll only improve our attacking output if we sign completely new wingers is, like I said, extremely pessimistic.
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We all thought we’d improve last season though after the successful first season. We got worse. This team needs a massive overhaul. We could be losing 2 wide players one who is our only creative wide player. Who els in our squad is creative except Bruno? Eriksen doesn’t count because he doesn’t start. ST need service unless they can create things on their own. Højlund isn’t that type.
 
Rolaholic said:
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This is old news. We all know we’ve spoke to his agents and we’re willing to pay his release clause. This can’t be done until July anyway since isn’t that when his release clause becomes active.
 
DJ_21 said:
We all thought we’d improve last season though after the successful first season. We got worse. This team needs a massive overhaul. We could be losing 2 wide players one who is our only creative wide player. Who els in our squad is creative except Bruno? Eriksen doesn’t count because he doesn’t start. ST need service unless they can create things on their own. Højlund isn’t that type.
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The reasons we got worse are complicated, but it is in no small part due to injuries an off-field incidents. Hopefully all of that is behind us. I'd expect Højlund, Garnacho, Mainoo and Amad to improve and Mount to play a bigger part next season. That should help. Rashford would hopefully also find some kind of form. Zirkzee would add creativity and allow us to play a higher press more successfully. Shaw and Martinez fit would also help offensively. Many factors can help us improve from last season.
 
Maybe if he had played in this Euros I might feel a bit less underwhelmed about possibly signing him
 
dinostar77 said:
His profile and price work within new transfer model. It's nothing to do with him being Dutch.
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So would lots of other players.

The bottom line is that is understandable to be very skeptical about all Dutch, or Dutch league players right now given we already know that Ten Hag has a very blinkered view when it comes to the players he targets.
 
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saik said:
I don't get this clamouring for Toney really. He's had 4 seasons at Brentford playing 138 games scoring 70 goals, 31 of them are from when they were in Championship. So, 89 games in all comps since they were promoted to Prem and a total of 39 goals scored out of which 12 were penalties. Let's be honest, as long as Bruno is here he's not going to take any penalties for us. Also add in being banned for 6 months for betting scandal, it's certainly baffling.
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Glad I am not the only one who sees it. He scored 4 in 17 last season and was anonymous in multiple games. Factor in that he is a massive bellend and is one slip up at the bookies away from a career ending ban and I wouldn’t want him at half the price Brentford are looking for.
 
️Dwight Yorke: "Names like Joshua Zirkzee being linked to Man United is baffling. They need a player who can definitely score goals. "They need someone who knows how to play in the Premier League. Why would you need 23-year-old Zirkzee when you have 21-year-old Rasmus Hojlund already at the club?
 
holdsteady said:
I don't see it so much as a competition between Hojlund and Zirkzee. We'll be playing Thurs and Sunday for most of the year, it's best we have two center forwards to keep fitness.
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Zirkzee (or someone with a similar profile) would also give Ten Hag a different tactical option, which is no bad thing. At Ajax, he liked to alternate between a false 9 and a more traditional target man (the former, more often in Europe, the latter, more often in the league).
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
So would lots of other players.

The bottom line is that is understandable to be very skeptical about all Dutch, or Dutch league players right now given we already know that Ten Hag has a very blinkered view when it comes to the players he targets.
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This doesn't seem like a ten Hag signing, someone mentioned earlier that it is more driven by Wilcox.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
So would lots of other players.

The bottom line is that is understandable to be very skeptical about all Dutch, or Dutch league players right now given we already know that Ten Hag has a very blinkered view when it comes to the players he targets.
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Yeah another reason I am skeptical about him
 
DJ_21 said:
He won’t add to that unless we change a few things including our selfish wingers and sign some creative ones that love to supply for their ST. Also he won’t add to that if we sign Zirkzee and he outshines him because he won’t be starting many. He’s not exactly shined in the euros either so his confidence will be low.
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Poor composition of the attack was factor last season. We can talk about selfish wingers but Rashford and Garnacho (at this stage) are what they are, head down and shoot, add Hojlund to that and you have 3 one dimensional forwards who are all score first, no surprise it didn't work.

Probably the hope was that Antony and Sancho would bring the creativity from the wide areas that would balance the attack a bit more but it never happened. Also prefer a forward with an all round game rather than a poacher especially given how focused the modern game is on goals from wide.
 
Bobski said:
Poor composition of the attack was factor last season. We can talk about selfish wingers but Rashford and Garnacho (at this stage) are what they are, head down and shoot, add Hojlund to that and you have 3 one dimensional forwards who are all score first, no surprise it didn't work.

Probably the hope was that Antony and Sancho would bring the creativity from the wide areas that would balance the attack a bit more but it never happened. Also prefer a forward with an all round game rather than a poacher especially given how focused the modern game is on goals from wide.
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Most goals nowadays do come from wide players. It eases the pressure on your ST. Look at Arsenal and Liverpool. Their wingers score the majority of their goals and Salah always ends up near the top of the goalscoring charts. We have Rashford who when in form is capable of giving us lots of goals but when he’s not in form theirs no one els to help with the goals. Hopefully keeps improving and can add more goals and assist to his game.
 
Don’t get the interest, don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough. I know I have only watched him less than 10 matches, but really don’t see why we’d be in for him. He’s not free, and not cheap either. Not good enough to be at a club challenging so if we ever have aspirations to challenge for big prizes he wouldn’t even be good enough to be back up. I get money is limited but that makes this singing even more weird. It’s high risk at best in terms of whether he’s gonna be good enough or not. I just don’t see it. But I’d be delighted to be proven wrong if we sign him
 
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