He mentions him in probably 75% of his posts
Joshua Zirkzee | signed for Manchester United
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Ten Hag Ball was especially enjoyable whenever Martial was fit.
Interesting. It could be that United could possibly pair them up on the pitch, this guy likes to drop deep, whereas Højlund seems better playing off the shoulder of a defender, running in behind.
If he came it could be an option.
Most enjoyable this year we were without striker at all.
Martial has a much better hold up play and is a superior finisher. Martial could also score a variety of goals and was a much better dribbler. This guy is more of a facilitator. A Martial on form would thrive as a left wide forward if this guy was playing as a false 9.
But Ornstein is one of the most reliable journalists out there in the country. He’s not the kind of journalist who will just do such a report. And also Ornstein is normally get his source from UK not from an oversea agent in serie A.
Would you say he is worth 40+15 million euros? which is about 45 million quid
For us it was. But I’ve always remembered ETH having like a target man upfront. Haller for Ajax being one.
Or Tadic as a false nine?
Martial is such a wasted talent. IMHO we shouldn't just look for a "facilitator" playing in the CF position. He also needs to score ~20 goals. It's not like we have prime Bale, Ronaldo, or Rooney playing on the wings. As a manager I wouldn't put my trust in Rashford and Garnacho to get me the numbers.
Not sure Tadic counts as a target man. If anything his body of work at Ajax showed how adaptable he could be. It's why his decisions to persist with certain things last season was so surprising.
Is he any good?
Surely if United say we’re not giving you 15m you greedy bastard, then it’ll force the player to ask him to drop his demands and stop pricing him out of moves.
He wasn’t played upfront all the time though. He likes his big men aswell. Hence the reason he signed Weghorst for us. Hojlund. If he wanted a false 9 type then he wouldn’t have gone for Hojlund. I also don’t think Zirkzee will help with our goalscoring problems. If we sign him then we need a goalscoring winger to help with goals.
you would think the player would tell their own agent to feck off. United would probably treble his current wages and you then have the agent risking that as he wants a payday.
His agent is Kia Joorabchian, one of the slimiest characters in the business. I would bet heavily that Zirkzee has signed a representation contract with Kia that gives him free reign to do whatever he wants. A relatively low release clause just becomes an opportunity for the agent to demand a bigger fee. These situations are not that much different in the end than negotiating to buy a player without a release clause.
For Branthwaite, the fee is going to be something like 50m +x and its really a negotiation between United and Everton over x.
For Zirkzee, the effective fee is going to be 40m euro (the release clause) + x (the agent fee) and its really a negotiation between United and Kia over x.
He'd be a squad player attacker who probably helps in terms of giving us something different in attack but doesn't score many goals himself. Gives us something different when Hojlund is having an off day, but doesn't bench Hojlund (which is fine). Probably suits Rashford more than Hojlund does.
We need depth in attack so I'm fine with it, but people shouldn't expect him to be an improvement on Hojlund because he really isn't.
As I said earlier in the thread, there was a lot of disappointment in the Netherlands over the inclusion of Brobbey over Zirkzee, but Koeman is just very conservative in his squad picks. It also took him ages to finally include Frimpong and no-one understood why. Weghorst is a special case, as somehow he's great for the Dutch team at the supersub goalscorer role, which obviously isn't Zirkzee's profile.
Yeah ok, that's also true. @roonster09 also said something similar above.
You keep evaluating Zirkzee within a goalscoring striker context, but he just isn't that. It's unfair to the player to use those criteria and if that's what United want, they definitely shouldn't sign him.
He is a false 9 but in the games I have watched, he has similar movement to an attacking mid. Firmino in his last two Liverpool seasons comes to mind.
The actual reality is that he is still under contract with us. Bit weird to talk about accepting reality whilst he is yet to be sold.
What if nobody wants him?
The reality is that he is still with us unfortunately for a lot of people.
When it changes i will then accept reality.
The reality is also that Ten Hag wanted him last year..
Nothing publicly has come out yet and i will stick to my hope of seeing Greenwood return.
Which i hope doesn't make people think of me as a bad person, because I've not done anything wrong.
You might as well stick with your belief of Santa Claus too.
We are buying him to be a squad center forward, of course he should be scoring goals now and then. He hasn't been much of a creator or much of a scorer. Just bring Wout Weghorst back if you want a big lump who works hard defensively.
I just don't want us to sign the Van de Beek of CF's for 45m and it be a another big waste of money
Imagine getting banned, then trying to come back all sneaky like... and you just can't help yourself but post all of the same dumb opinions in the same obvious posting style that everyone knows it's you before you've made 100 posts.
I thought you were a doctor and your IQ destroys people, mate?
But he's not "a big lump who works hard defensively" though? I mean besides both being tall, there's very little in common between Zirkzee and Weghorst. Weghorst is horrific technically for starters and far less athletic.
Zee Zee!!
12 goals and 7 assits in 37 games for bologna this season. They had a very good season, made CL qualification and Zirkzee was a key part of that team.
Those numbers would be higher most likely at a club of higher stature.
Most enjoyable this year we were without striker at all.
I'd say we were more enjoyable to the opposition for most parts of the year when we didn't have a defence.
Yes, that's why I am sceptical about this guy. I don't think he is the kind of striker that our team needs. We need someone who is an upgrade on Hojlund and can take the primary goal scoring mantle until Rasmus matures.
This guy will work if we plan to change our playing style completely and get a wide forward in the ilk of the guys you mentioned.
0.41 combined xG and xAssists per 90 minutes puts him at the 26th percentile of forwards. That's extremely bad for his age and serie A when trying to relate it to the Prem. 54th percentile if you just look at Serie A forwards. To compare, Hojlund was at the 85th percentile with Atalanta.
You don't need to make excuses for stats, because they don't impress at all. The signing, if we make it, is not based on the stats/analytics. It'd be based on someone scouting him and thinking he has the talent to step up and do better than he has done until now and have it click on the pitch to be a more effective player. There's nothing impressive about his goals and assists for someone who plays as the lone central attacker of a 433, even if he is more of a false 9.
Zirkzee's youth record is impeccable. During the 17/18 season he scored 16 goals in 21 games at U17 Bundesliga youth level. The year after he scored 22 goals in 39 matches again at youth level. The year after he was slowly introduced to first team. His opportunities were very limited. In the Bundesliga he featured just 3 times in the starting 11 and played a total of 9 times. Yet he was still able to score 4 goals and create an assist. Season 20/21 was quite horrible in terms of goals and opportunities. He played a total of 4 games between league and CL, starting just 1 game and scoring nothing. He was then loaned to Parma and in an injury stricken season there he played 4 games coming off the bench in all of them and scoring in none of them.
The season after he moved to Anderlecht and the goals kept piling in. He scored 18 goals and created 13 assists in 48 games in his first season. Bologna signed him on a permanent transfer and they barely used him. In the Serie A played 19 games in which he started just 5 of them and he scored 2 goals. The Italians have a different line of thought to the British. Unless we're talking of crystalline talent such as Maldini then they love to give kids a year or two on the bench/on loan to keep the hype in check. Anyway this season was his breakthrough, 12 goals and 7 assists in 37 matches
Some will point out that he only had one great season at top level. However this is the first season were he played regularly at top level as well. Is he a world class finisher like Haaland is? I doubt it. However when one analyze his stats you notice that his goals and assists ratio is very close to one another. That suggest a striker that is hardworking, will drop deep and will create chances for others. We're not talking of a goal poacher here.
33m is peanuts for today's standards. The gambler would probably cost us 50m if not more. Regarding the rest I suggest you read the remainder of the post. This guy can score goals and he can create assists. I won't exclude a scenario were both Hojlund and Zirkzee can play together
Tevez was a proper arse however I think we fecked ourselves regarding Tevez. We allowed a proven winner and an absolute machine going forward to go so we can sign a luxury signing who could barely score in the CL.
This is a really interesting and helpful summary of his career to date. Thank you!
For the price being quoted he's worth a punt but I would rather we went for Guirassy instead. Better player and a similar fee.
Shouldn't be overlooked. Also, people saying that we should have two proven strikers ready to go at any moment...you have to be a team that guarantees trophies every year to keep players happy with that scenario.
City and Madrid can do that right now, but considering United haven't won the league since 2013, we don't really have that appeal.
Signing players who might be on the cusp of hitting their stride is what we have to aim for right now.
I would agree but it seems Guirassy is set on staying in the Bundesliga and has already agreed terms on a transfer to Dortmund.
Zirkzee makes a lot of sense given our budget and the need to address a few positions. The only sure things out there would cost twice as much at a minimum and the money just is not there.
He's 28, so isn't going to get better. Also, people saying Zirkzee has only had one decent season, when this guy put up average numbers his entire career until last season.
Even if he can recreate that form next season, he very much strikes me as the kind of player who can bang them in for a Bundesliga club, but would struggle in the EPL.
Can we please not spend silly money on a striker who scored 12 goals last season? Once in 2 years is bad enough.
Is 35 million silly money to you?
That's roughly what Mane got at his last season at Southampton before moving to Liverpool. 11 goals and 6 assists.
Firminho had 7 goals and 10 assists in his last season before moving to Liverpool.
Salah had 15 goals and 11 assists in his last season before joining Liverpool.
Zirkzee is a weird one and I mean it in a good way. On one hand he's a 6ft4 giant. You'll expect someone like that to stay at the edge of the defense line to bully defenders up and score that goal. That's not how Zirkzee operate. He's gifted with great technique and altruism which allows him to drop deep and help things around. Hojlund does that in his own right but he's nowhere near to Zirkzee who sits more inside Bruno's territory
Zirkzee
Bruno
What does that mean? Four things
A- Zirkzee will work like a mad man for the team. That's great into a team were the work rate is one of its weaknesses
B- He'll be dragging defenders back with him thus creating space for the likes of Rashford Garnacho and Bruno, all of whom love to score goals
C- He's got enough eye for goal to play as a lone striker but he is comfortable playing in a deeper role behind the striker.
D- In corners we'll be throwing a 6ft4 player in the mix which is important in a team were the defense is on the short side.
Politically wise Zirkzee is good and experienced enough to lead our line but is not a big name to expect to play on a week in week out basis. That suits us well as Hojlund should have been in that same position as well
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