Joshua Zirkzee is a Red | and our #11

RuudTom83 said:
100%

Also having a relatively small transfer fee* takes away the first stick pundits and fans could use to beat him with the second he has a poor 5 mins.

(*I'm sure the usual suspects will include his agents fees to try and ramp it up)
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Agent fees should be included. If this was a normal transfer, agent commission from United's side would be up to 3 % of the player's salary, whick equals around £3k per week. Even if the whole contract is paid at once, which is not how it's done, that would be around £750k for all the 5 years. Instead, it's around £8m.

With deals like this one or Haaland's transfer from Dortmund to City, where fees paid are so outside the standard, reporting on those fees is the most natural thing in the world.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Agent fees should be included. If this was a normal transfer, agent commission from United's side would be up to 3 % of the player's salary, whick equals around £3k per week. Even if the whole contract is paid at once, which is not how it's done, that would be around £750k for all the 5 years. Instead, it's around £8m.

With deals like this one or Haaland's transfer from Dortmund to City, where fees paid are so outside the standard, reporting on those fees is the most natural thing in the world.
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You're kidding yourself if you think any of the major transfers had only 3% agent commission. You think Arsenal paid 3% commissions to agents for Rice or Havertz transfers ? Or Chelsea with Caicedo/Enzo/Mudryk or any of the numerous players they signed? The agent fee we paid for Zirkzee is slightly on the higher side probably because he got his client to sign on a reasonable release clause but nothing out of ordinary like you seem to be suggesting.
 
saik said:
You're kidding yourself if you think any of the major transfers had only 3% agent commission. You think Arsenal paid 3% commissions to agents for Rice or Havertz transfers ? Or Chelsea with Caicedo/Enzo/Mudryk or any of the numerous players they signed? The agent fee we paid for Zirkzee is slightly on the higher side probably because he got his client to sign on a reasonable release clause but nothing out of ordinary like you seem to be suggesting.
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There are three ways for agents to squeeze money out of a deal:

1. The work they do for players. Traditionally this was paid by clubs on behalf of players (it's still a benefit, so players had to pay tax on it), but as of new rules players now have to pay their agents themselves. This is capped at 5 % of gross salary if players earn less than $200k per year, 3 % if they earn more.

2. The work they do for the buying club. This is also based on gross salary, paid by the club this time, same caps as above.

3. The work they do for the selling club. This is now capped at 10 % of the sale price.

The caps are new, from October last year, and you could see 5 % or in some extreme cases 10 % before, but any normal agent fees have always been based on salary for the buying clubs.
 
"Everton was a serious option for me, because Ronald Koeman was the manager of the first team and I didn't have many strikers in front of me at that time," he told me in an interview in 2019.
"Romelu Lukaku left for Manchester United that summer and Everton gave me a feeling there was a good chance to come through there. When I was there they offered me a contract straightaway."


Yet Zirkzee waited until he got an offer from Bayern.
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cj507mvnzr4o

Probably why Koeman didn't play him at the Euros? Dude was hurt cause he got rejected? :confused:
 
NotThatSoph said:
There are three ways for agents to squeeze money out of a deal:

1. The work they do for players. Traditionally this was paid by clubs on behalf of players (it's still a benefit, so players had to pay tax on it), but as of new rules players now have to pay their agents themselves. This is capped at 5 % of gross salary if players earn less than $200k per year, 3 % if they earn more.

2. The work they do for the buying club. This is also based on gross salary, paid by the club this time, same caps as above.

3. The work they do for the selling club. This is now capped at 10 % of the sale price.

The caps are new, from October last year, and you could see 5 % or in some extreme cases 10 % before, but any normal agent fees have always been based on salary for the buying clubs.
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You have a source for this? I don't think I have seen anywhere about there being a cap for agent fees. There will be situations where agents demand more from some clubs if they want his client to join that club(Zirkzee to Milan is one such case) but I don't think there's a cap there?
 
saik said:
You have a source for this? I don't think I have seen anywhere about there being a cap for agent fees. There will be situations where agents demand more from some clubs if they want his client to join that club(Zirkzee to Milan is one such case) but I don't think there's a cap there?
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It looks like I missed a court case, the cap is not enforceable in the UK because of competition rules. So, there's no cap, at least in the UK.

However, the reported £8m agent fee represents around 30 % of Zirkzee's earnings over the duration of his contract. That is already very very unusual, and it's assuming that the payment isn't on top of a standard cut of the wages as well (I have no idea if that's the case or not).
 
Really looking forward to watching him at United. Please become a new Ruud.
 
I wish him all the best, except if he should cross paths with us, obviously.
 
saik said:
You're kidding yourself if you think any of the major transfers had only 3% agent commission. You think Arsenal paid 3% commissions to agents for Rice or Havertz transfers ? Or Chelsea with Caicedo/Enzo/Mudryk or any of the numerous players they signed? The agent fee we paid for Zirkzee is slightly on the higher side probably because he got his client to sign on a reasonable release clause but nothing out of ordinary like you seem to be suggesting.
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Exactly, City, Chelsea and even Liverpool tops the agent fee paid and it varies from 15-25% if you include both incoming and outgoing transfers.

If you include only incoming transfers it should be much higher.
 
Not much older than Greenwood, and with us getting decent money in from Marseille for someone we could never use again, I think this is not a bad deal. He's been at Bayern, so his pedigree is good, and he's on the way back up. He’s not scored many for Bologna, but it could be he becomes more prolific. At Bayern, he was seen as someone who would get goals and had high potential. His record at Anderlecht was promising, too.
 
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devilish said:
Some quotes about Zirkzee from people who understand football

Roberto Baggio: "I like him a lot. He had an exceptional season at Bologna. He's got great quality and he has excellent potential"

Fabio Capello: "“Apart from Lautaro, I’m in love with the Bologna centre-forward. I saw him at San Siro against Milan and I admired a complete player with great technical qualities, gifted with great imagination, capable of understanding the game, running a lot and imposing himself physically.

“He’s the modern player with a lot of quality. He has quick thinking and always chooses the play that can hurt the opponent the most. He has technical and tactical sensitivity,” he stated.

Thiago Motta: "He's got an extremely talented player. He's a rare breed in today's football. He's got excellent technique and great physicality however he's also unselfish. He first think of others then of himself (football wise). That gives him an edge over selfish players who tend to put their own interest first. We're very happy that he's got that and so is he"

Gullit: I love Zirkzee. I saw him playing even with the U17 alongside my own son and I know him very well. He's got a great eye for goal and great positioning. He would be an excellent signing for Milan

Van Basten: He's an excellent player with great potential but he's still young and he has still lot to prove. Time will tell how good he is and whether he can become a legend. However he's a quality player.

Amauri: Many wrote to me regarding Zirkzee. They say that he's similar to how I used to play. That brings me great pleasure because he's a great player. I think they are right and we do have a similar game. We move alike especially when I was young. I'd love to see him play at Juventus"
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Bravo! By far the most useful post in this thread. Heartening to read too.
 
All national team managers seem to have their favourites and they don't always seem tied to playing ability so I'm not worried about the lack of minutes in the international team to date.

If nothing else, it saved him from coming to us carrying an injury.
 
Redasaredthing said:
All national team managers seem to have their favourites and they don't always seem tied to playing ability so I'm not worried about the lack of minutes in the international team to date.

If nothing else, it saved him from coming to us carrying an injury.
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Largely agree. He was behind Depay, who is after all a well-established key player on the Dutch team. And I suppose Weghorst is just a totally different tactical option. Still, it does underline that what we're buying here is to a significant extent future promise.

If anything worries me, it's rather that no one else went in for him.
 
”As a young boy growing up, playing mostly with tougher, bigger guys who are older than you, makes you adapt.”
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"I think it's something that you learn at a young age in Holland. Especially where I'm from, this was the case."
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"I hope she [his mother] forgives me now for all the times I came home late!

"Or if I broke something in the backyard or at home.

"So, eventually, it all worked out pretty well.”
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"But, yeah, that was just life back when I was younger.

"Play football, forget about the time and getting back home late. But it turned out pretty well."
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"I have a lot of trust and a good feeling about this step.
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"It wasn't a difficult decision. I mean, I love Bologna a lot, but Manchester United just gave me a very, very good feeling.

"I'm confident that what's planned will also happen.

"It's been a rollercoaster, the past few weeks. Some very good experiences and I'm very happy to be here. Obviously, making a transfer to Manchester United is something very positive.

"I just can't wait to get started and continue what I basically did last season. I'm just hoping to improve every day and do the best I can."
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"I'm very happy to be here.
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"I mean, it's probably the biggest club in the world, so I can't wait to get started and get to know everyone and start this journey. I'm very, very excited.

"I’m going on a short break. Try and relax a little bit and then get back to Manchester and get it going.

"Obviously, it [Old Trafford] is an insane stadium. I can't wait to play in the stadium. Just very, very excited, very motivated."
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Interesting player, from the limited amount I have seen he appears to have a decent combination of technique, imagination and physical power, though I have some concerns around his mobility/sharpness at PL level. As an alternative to Hojlund as a 9 he could be a player who could bring more out of the wide attackers with his interplay.

Like that Utd have gone for a different style though you can still see Ten Hag likes a big lad as a front option.
 
The most excited I've been for signing in years. He'll improve our football in the final 3rd.
 
Bobski said:
Interesting player, from the limited amount I have seen he appears to have a decent combination of technique, imagination and physical power, though I have some concerns around his mobility/sharpness at PL level. As an alternative to Hojlund as a 9 he could be a player who could bring more out of the wide attackers with his interplay.

Like that Utd have gone for a different style though you can still see Ten Hag likes a big lad as a front option.
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It looks like his best traits are creative and he may not be a striker long term.
 
mintyred said:
It looks like his best traits are creative and he may not be a striker long term.
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Think its actually his dribbling, which can lead to a good pass after hes taken on a player. But I'm not expecting Bruno/De Bruyne or even Bernado Silva from him with his passing

Edit - Zirkzee had 1.4 key passes per 90 mins last season, Bruno had 3.3, Amad had 2.4, Eriksen 2.1, Reguilon 1.7, Garnacho 1.6, Antony 1.5
 
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Why wasn't he played more in the Euros? It seems that we are buying potential. I am not saying Wout is better but if this guy is a top player he should have played more, or?
 
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