[Malons]

I think we'd have far more luck if the primary role of our strikers wasn't too watch others take shots from outside the area.

 

[Insanity]

Why you're pointing fingers at me mate? I was only writing what football experts said about zirkzee. Are you blaming all our woes on a substitute? After all we struggled to score goals long before as Zirkzee came in

Capello did say stuff about Zirkzee

"“Vlahovic is not Zirkzee, he is a penalty-box bomber and not an exceptional maneuverer,” explained the former Juventus and Real Madrid coach in his column for La Gazzetta dello Sport via IlBianconero.

“So Thiago tried Weah as a striker, but then he found himself without men in the box when Napoli dropped back and he had to make the difference in the last sixteen meters on the crosses that rained down in the middle.

“The Bianconeri are still too slow in circulating the ball and have little quality in the final third.”

But he also said

“I think Chiesa has the right speed to play in the Premier League. Elsewhere, I saw Zirkzee who is having great difficulty because he thinks he can still play at the Italian pace.”

Saha talked about him as well

“He’s a player that’s very interesting and gets involved in the right places. I’d like to see his game improve with more minutes and confidence,” he said before the Liverpool game"

Zirkzee is a 23 year old who had just joined a struggling top club in a different league. He needs time to adapt. I don't blame the signing, I blame the manager. Tactically he's clueless and had been so long before the likes of Zirkzee and De Ligt were signed.

I was pointing to the perils on commenting and touting a player based on comments from various people instead of having watched them play.

And no I am not blaming all our struggles on Zirkzee, who I still think is a decent player. However, as I kept pointing out during the summer, he is not an out and out goal scorer that we needed. It's basically a wasted signing for a player we didn't need in a position we didn't need. We should have gone for someone who is proper striker rather than someone pretending to be one. This is like a repeat of the Mount signing. We need a proper CM and we signed Mount & now can't find a proper use for him. The same is true for Zirkzee. We needed a striker but we got a #10/False 9 or whatever the feck you want to call him.

The amount of money this club has wasted on players it didn't need just because they were available relatively easily is staggering.

 

[devilish]

I was pointing to the perils on commenting and touting a player based on comments from various people instead of having watched them play.

And no I am not blaming all our struggles on Zirkzee, who I still think is a decent player. However, as I kept pointing out during the summer, he is not an out and out goal scorer that we needed. It's basically a wasted signing for a player we didn't need in a position we didn't need. We should have gone for someone who is proper striker rather than someone pretending to be one. This is like a repeat of the Mount signing. We need a proper CM and we signed Mount & now can't find a proper use for him. The same is true for Zirkzee. We needed a striker but we got a #10/False 9 or whatever the feck you want to call him.

The amount of money this club has wasted on players it didn't need just because they were available relatively easily is staggering.

I have been watching the serie A since van Basten was playing for AC Milan. That Milan was the best team I've ever seen. Then I further support my argument based on what I see with stats and of course what experts in the field say

Transfers fail all the time. There's around a 50-60% success rate in football which drops significantly at a club like ours that is poorly run. The reasons are various and include the human element. I canbmake a list of high level flops from veron to bergkamp right to shevchenko

But to blame all our woes to a 23 yr old substitute player who had just joined the club is crazy

 

[Insanity]

I have been watching the serie A since van Basten was playing for AC Milan. That Milan was the best team I've ever seen. Then I further support my argument based on what I see with stats and of course what experts in the field say

Transfers fail all the time. There's around a 50-60% success rate in football which drops significantly at a club like ours that is poorly run. The reasons are various and include the human element. I canbmake a list of high level flops from veron to bergkamp right to shevchenko

But to blame all our woes to a 23 yr old substitute player who had just joined the club is crazy

Keep saying that a few more times and maybe it'll become true eventually. Jesus fecking christ!

Who cares whether you have been watching Milan since Van Basten. Did you watch Zirkzee? Did you think he was a striker who can come in and score goals? Or forget coming in and scoring goals, will he ever become a striker who will score a lot of goals? Because if you did watch him, like you watched Van Basten, you wouldn't think he was an out and out striker or will ever become one.

 

[clarkydaz]

Have to say, looks like he's turned up to play 5 a side

 

[devilish]

Keep saying that a few more times and maybe it'll become true eventually. Jesus fecking christ!

Who cares whether you have been watching Milan since Van Basten. Did you watch Zirkzee? Did you think he was a striker who can come in and score goals? Or forget coming in and scoring goals, will he ever become a striker who will score a lot of goals? Because if you did watch him, like you watched Van Basten, you wouldn't think he was an out and out striker or will ever become one.

I think he gives us a different approach to our game similarly to what we had when teddy came in for cole. However for zirkzee to be a success then our wingers need to score goals. For hojlund or even haaland to be a success then they need to produce more assists. The issue lie on our flanks + Bruno. They expect to play like Ronaldo used to do while producing similar goals and assists to a Quinton fortune

 

[IRN-BRUno]

I thought on his debut he was pretty much invisible until he scored, then suddenly he seemed to look a lot more lively and the next couple of games showed some encouraging signs. Since then though...

Maybe he just needs another goal to get himself going again, the problem is that at the moment that seems about as likely as Ten Hag growing a mullet over the international break.

 

[doubleohseven]

I feel bad for Zirkzee and the other signings. All we do is ruin good players. Bruno must have some sort of immunity. He's the only one to come here and not drop off.

Sorry, but if they're great players, truly great, we wouldn't be able to ruin them.

We desperately need to stop blaming 'the club' whenever our big-money signings fail. It's on the players as much as anybody else.

 

[Revival2024]

Zhirkzee.. another mundane footballer without any punch. 6ft plus but has no presence, no aggression, no movement. He has no aerial presence, first touch is hit and miss, finishing is non existing. He is constantly reactive to everything and seems unable to run. He compared himself to Zlatan but he lacks the verve, imagination and aggression of the player. It's all well and good looking pretty and daisy on the ball but more often than not, your aggression and desire carves something out of nothing. Zhirkzee simply doesn't look like he can conjure something. He is constantly too deep and no where near the area he should be.

The quality of strikers across the leagues is very low. Zhirkzee is emblematic of the low supply. I will be surprised if he turns his Manchester United career around. I am not sure he has the personality to represent the pressure of playing for United. In fact, I would say most players in this team lack both the character and quality to represent the club.

 

[bitcoin]

It's unfortunate, but appearances matter, and that means Zirkzee is going to have to lose weight and improve his body language. Otherwise he will face being ridiculed like Lukaku was during his 2nd season at United.

He needs to show energy and effort, even if it doesn't come naturally to him - this is an absolute minimum if you want to survive in the PL. If his body language stinks then he's going to get eaten alive by defenders, media, fans etc.

 

[Paul778]

He would likely be a valuable option in rotation if we had a functioning attack with all of the forward line consistently putting in 7 or 8 out of 10 performances.

With our current moments FC attack with none of them on form, knowing what to do at any given time and typically playing selfishly missing or failing to execute opportunities for team play...

... well we can put him down as another problem to solve.

 

[TrailMonkey]

If we had an out and out goal scorer, eg a RvN or a RvP, plus decent wingers/fullbacks and a dominant midfield, then he'd probably look quite decent. We have none of those things (other than fullbacks who have their moments).

 

[sugar_kane]

I think he may be my least favourite signing in years based on his current showing.

Whatever your profession, if you have anything about you you at least pretend like you're trying in your first couple of months in a new job.

The lad is ambling about like he's been with us for about 4 years and is winding down his contract.

He makes Martial look like a workhorse.

 

[kopviolator]

He must have been istructed to move slowly to avoid injuries.
Link up play is all right though

 

[Dearg hÉireann]

I think he may be my least favourite signing in years based on his current showing.

Whatever your profession, if you have anything about you you at least pretend like you're trying in your first couple of months in a new job.

The lad is ambling about like he's been with us for about 4 years and is winding down his contract.

He makes Martial look like a workhorse.

Yes he definitely has a touch of Martial, Berbatov etc in regards to work rate and effort. He's been very underwhelming thus far as have most of our previous signings. I couldn't understand his signing at the time as his stats weren't great and even less now that I've seen him myself.

 

[redshaw]

We need a compact shape for Zirkzee as we do for Mainoo. These aren't all day runners, they want to pass more. Zirkzee should've had support for that pass to no-one, he probably saw the player outside and expected him to move in that area as did I for a split second yet it didn't happen.

We can blame players but we and and club have to understand the players we have and buy. For our managers plan to work we'd need the most athletic firefighters from the last 10 years to make it all work.

An extreme example of passing and making all work is Pep's city without striker a couple of years ago scoring 100 goals.

Our play and goal scoring is pathetic and getting worse through our manager. Our fans expect Garnacho/Greenwood style individualism to make things happen but even that has its limits.

 

[The_Midfielder]

We need a compact shape for Zirkzee as we do for Mainoo. These aren't all day runners, they want to pass more. Zirkzee should've had support for that pass to no-one, he probably saw the player outside and expected him to move in that area as did I for a split second yet it didn't happen.

We can blame players but we and and club have to understand the players we have and buy. For our managers plan to work we'd need the most athletic firefighters from the last 10 years to make it all work.

An extreme example of passing and making all work is Pep's city without striker a couple of years ago scoring 100 goals.

Our play and goal scoring is pathetic and getting worse through our manager. Our fans expect Garnacho/Greenwood style individualism to make things happen but even that has its limits.

The Antony pass was something was lack of coordination among team mates.. he has just arrived ..
I would play both him and Hojlund , and see how they play..

.

 

[dubplate warrior]

The comments are wild to me. He looks a really good, technical player.

The problem is people are judging him based on the player they want him to be rather than the player he is.

Zirkzee is not a goalscorer, he likely never will be. The closest player I can compare him to is Firminho, and Firminho was a fantastic player.

I do feel like sometimes him and Bruno take up similar positions, and Rashford looks better when he is on the pitch.

 

[caid]

The comments are wild to me. He looks a really good, technical player.

The problem is people are judging him based on the player they want him to be rather than the player he is.

Zirkzee is not a goalscorer, he likely never will be. The closest player I can compare him to is Firminho, and Firminho was a fantastic player.

I do feel like sometimes him and Bruno take up similar positions, and Rashford looks better when he is on the pitch.

Honestly his performance annoyed me more than anything. Its not going to give me a definitive, rock solid opinion on the guy but it didn't improve my opinion of him.
I wanted him to provide some energy, fresh legs and to press the ball. Bruno and Garnacho ran past him a couple of times to do it for him. He was just so, so static. It felt like most of the team showed up and were disciplined and hard working then he came on to show the worst side of us.
Personally I dont really care if hes more of a false 9 or 10. If he's the furthest player forward on the pitch he needs to make runs into the box and engage cb's. Adjust to what the team needs. Hes not Messi were not going to build the team around him, no one is.
Much more negative opinion than he deserves at this point. I accept its a rough start for the team. I still think he needs to be pulled up on that performance, just not what was needed.

 

[Yagami]

I just don't think he's a striker. He screams a number 10 to me.

 

[bgoodall]

I hate to say this but he sucks.

 

[Insanity]

I think he gives us a different approach to our game similarly to what we had when teddy came in for cole. However for zirkzee to be a success then our wingers need to score goals. For hojlund or even haaland to be a success then they need to produce more assists. The issue lie on our flanks + Bruno. They expect to play like Ronaldo used to do while producing similar goals and assists to a Quinton fortune

Yeah, we didn't need a different approach, we needed a goal scorer. Different approaches could be approached once your primary approach is working.

This idea that every new player needs 5 better players in different positions before they can be judged is unique to Manchester United. It has been used for countless players before in the last XI years.

 

[ROFLUTION]

So many fans are back to square one in evaluating each player here and now. Seems like patience is only available from our fanbase when it’s summer and no games are played.

This is a long term project ffs. We can’t buy Mbappe, so we buy players to develop. Patience, competition and regular gametime is what a player like Zirkzee needs to get to next level. It’s not guaranteed that he develops, but it’s very premature to just give him flame and judge him completely right now.

 

[AndySmith1990]

So many fans are back to square one in evaluating each player here and now. Seems like patience is only available from our fanbase when it’s summer and no games are played.

This is a long term project ffs. We can’t buy Mbappe, so we buy players to develop. Patience, competition and regular gametime is what a player like Zirkzee needs to get to next level. It’s not guaranteed that he develops, but it’s very premature to just give him flame and judge him completely right now.

How many long term projects have we had in the last decade and how many have turned out to be good?

I'd say the real problem has been listening to people like yourself, who ignore all evidence and just throw out the line "he needs time" at everyone.

Blindly giving more time to rubbish United employees has been our downfall

 

[devilish]

Yeah, we didn't need a different approach, we needed a goal scorer. Different approaches could be approached once your primary approach is working.

This idea that every new player needs 5 better players in different positions before they can be judged is unique to Manchester United. It has been used for countless players before in the last XI years.

That player was Hojlund. Last season he had a goal conversion rate which was better to Haaland's. The criticism surrounding Hojlund was that he was a goal scorer ie he loved to stay in the danger zone. Therefore whenever United struggled he ended up isolated upfront. Hence why we bought Zirkzee.

United's issue lie not on striker but on the forward line. Honestly I've never seen a forward line that is as selfish as ours. They barely ever drop deep to help out, they don't create enough and they constantly try to cut inside and score. Its ok to have 1 of those if he happened to be WC. SAF accommodated Ronaldo by surrounding him with runners (Tevez, Rooney and Park). But we don't have that. In terms of the EPL, Rashford (0), Mount (0), Eriksen (0) Garnacho (1), Bruno (1) and Amad (1) had less assists then Ndidi (4) alone. That's par to what Jadon Sancho, Nicolas Jackson and Bernardo Silva created on their own and 1 less assist to what Wolves LB Ait-Nouri created. Our captain Bruno and the new Messi Garnacho had created as many assists as our full backs and 1 less then Ait-Nouri, Digne and Rico Lewis. England's Darling Rashford had done worse than that. But hey let's blame the 23 year old squad player we just signed from Bologna whose yet to settle down instead.

 

[red_de_pologne]

How many long term projects have we had in the last decade and how many have turned out to be good?

I'd say the real problem has been listening to people like yourself, who ignore all evidence and just throw out the line "he needs time" at everyone.

Blindly giving more time to rubbish United employees has been our downfall

He started 4 fecking games, in a new league in a team with some major issues, man I hate today's "fans"..

 

[ROFLUTION]

How many long term projects have we had in the last decade and how many have turned out to be good?

I'd say the real problem has been listening to people like yourself, who ignore all evidence and just throw out the line "he needs time" at everyone.

Blindly giving more time to rubbish United employees has been our downfall

You have a completely new setup with a new CEO and a new sporting director. Both who have really good merits. They have a shitshow to untangle. The manager has shit tactics, plays a team with no rhythm and on top of that no one is really performing.

You: “meh, I’ll judge a player fully on 2 games of 90 minutes + 8 subbed on/off appearances”

 

[Telsim]

Never seemed good enough and a badly planned transfer. Doesn't fit the team at all. I don't remember anyone else being in for him either. But this club is a graveyard for talent, where careers go to die, so it's difficult to say which it is. I want to see how he does under a proper coach. But for now - not good.

 

[Insanity]

That player was Hojlund. Last season he had a goal conversion rate which was better to Haaland's. The criticism surrounding Hojlund was that he was a goal scorer ie he loved to stay in the danger zone. Therefore whenever United struggled he ended up isolated upfront. Hence why we bought Zirkzee.

United's issue lie not on striker but on the forward line. Honestly I've never seen a forward line that is as selfish as ours. They barely ever drop deep to help out, they don't create enough and they constantly try to cut inside and score. Its ok to have 1 of those if he happened to be WC. SAF accommodated Ronaldo by surrounding him with runners (Tevez, Rooney and Park). But we don't have that. In terms of the EPL, Rashford (0), Mount (0), Eriksen (0) Garnacho (1), Bruno (1) and Amad (1) had less assists then Ndidi (4) alone. That's par to what Jadon Sancho, Nicolas Jackson and Bernardo Silva created on their own and 1 less assist to what Wolves LB Ait-Nouri created. Our captain Bruno and the new Messi Garnacho had created as many assists as our full backs and 1 less then Ait-Nouri, Digne and Rico Lewis. England's Darling Rashford had done worse than that. But hey let's blame the 23 year old squad player we just signed from Bologna whose yet to settle down instead.

"Goal conversion rate better than Haaland" doesn't mean anything when it was amply clear that he doesn't have the touch or the hold-up play to lead the line for a top club. He is still young player and needs time to develop instead of being given the responsibility to lead the line at such a young age. The solution should have been to get a more experienced striker (goal scorer) and let Hojlund develop in the background. Instead, we got a non-striker as a starter/back-up for him and have struggled.

The things you mention in your second para are a system problem more than the personnel problem. There is no way the attackers/wide-players are refusing to drop deep.

 

[devilish]

"Goal conversion rate better than Haaland" doesn't mean anything when it was amply clear that he doesn't have the touch or the hold-up play to lead the line for a top club. He is still young player and needs time to develop instead of being given the responsibility to lead the line at such a young age. The solution should have been to get a more experienced striker (goal scorer) and let Hojlund develop in the background. Instead, we got a non-striker as a starter/back-up for him and have struggled.

The things you mention in your second para are a system problem more than the personnel problem. There is no way the attackers/wide-players are refusing to drop deep.

In terms of assists we've been in decline for many years. We went from 51 in 20-21 to 46 in 21-22 to 42 in 22-23 to 36 in 23-24. That's ridiculous stats compared to Liverpool (43, 71, 58, 60), City (55, 63, 69, 69) and even Spurs (50, 50, 46, 58). And that's not an anomaly. We've been struggling on that prior 20-21 as well18-19 (40) and 19-20 (43).

I agree that tactics needs to change but maybe its time to admit that the new Messi, the Rashy and the Portuguese Maradona are nowhere near as good as we portray them to be. Salary wise they're great and football wise they might have been great in the past (or in Garnacho's case in the future) but that's not good enough.

 

[Oldyella]

Not looking good, but I'm willing to give him a chance under a decent coach first, same as every other under performing player.

 

[Marwood]

He has to look fit though. Whatever he is, a 9 or a 10, you can't be on the pitch looking heavy and one paced.

I know some people don't like this kind of criticism but not turning up for pre season worried me. I said the same about Sancho.

Skipping pre season is one thing when signing for United. Then looking really quite unfit when the games get going? Can't be happening.

 

[Insanity]

In terms of assists we've been in decline for many years. We went from 51 in 20-21 to 46 in 21-22 to 42 in 22-23 to 36 in 23-24. That's ridiculous stats compared to Liverpool (43, 71, 58, 60), City (55, 63, 69, 69) and even Spurs (50, 50, 46, 58). And that's not an anomaly. We've been struggling on that prior 20-21 as well18-19 (40) and 19-20 (43).

I agree that tactics needs to change but maybe its time to admit that the new Messi, the Rashy and the Portuguese Maradona are nowhere near as good as we portray them to be. Salary wise they're great and football wise they might have been great in the past (or in Garnacho's case in the future) but that's not good enough.

Adding the "new Bergkamp" to the mix surely wasn't the answer to our woes either.

I don't even think that Zirkzee is a bad player, its just that this was another unnecessary signing when we need a better profile striker in the team.

 

[troylocker]

It's just so annoying to see how little intensity and urgency he has in his game. Like when he made that nonchalant heelflick in a great position to lose the ball. Or when we were 2 on 1 and he just fumbled the ball to the defender in a "lack of decisiveness" haze. Made me think of his legendary preseason miss for Bayern vs. Ajax a few years back. Looks like he's processing things in slow motion.

Hopefully a new manager can teach him how to change to a faster gear.

 

[devilish]

Adding the "new Bergkamp" to the mix surely wasn't the answer to our woes either.

I don't even think that Zirkzee is a bad player, its just that this was another unnecessary signing when we need a better profile striker in the team.

Bergkamp tanked in Italy big time and then became a legend in England. So yes even someone of that stature can fail

I never heard that Zirkzee was the answer to anything tbh. The plan was to have him as a squad player who could give us a different approach to the game as opposed to Hojlund. I think every striker we sign at this point is going to flop. We simply do not create enough chances for them to score.

 

[Kingslayer18]

He's not a no 9 but we did need a backup striker to replace Martial and wouldn't cost an arm and an leg. I also think that he's still getting up to speed with the intensity of the EPL and how the team plays. I think he will come good in the long term for what we bought him for. Though, he's as much a project as Hojlund is, however what will worry me is if there wasn't a clear idea of the player he is and what he will bring to the team when we bought him. I would rather we decided to get Boniface, who is a no 9 that can bring others into play and has a great assist record.

 

[cpresc]

If Sancho and Berbatov had a baby..

 

[E-mal]

In my opinion he is a dud, early conclusion yes but you cannot be a new signing and show this level of carelessness and lack of intensity.

 

[Revival2024]

Never seemed good enough and a badly planned transfer. Doesn't fit the team at all. I don't remember anyone else being in for him either. But this club is a graveyard for talent, where careers go to die, so it's difficult to say which it is. I want to see how he does under a proper coach. But for now - not good.

Perhaps the players are simply not good enough. The pressure of Manchester United can either elevate you or drown you. Most of the players who join United are given ample opportunity, given huge salaries and pampered with excuses. No other reputable big club does this - if Zhirkzee was at Real Madrid, he would be binned off for not stacking up. Manchester United, however, keeps rewarding failure and I am not sure why. Ten hag, Rashford, Sancho, Maguire etc all still rolling up at the club when they should be ruthlessly binned.

The fact is, some players and managers can't cut it under the lights of Old Trafford. Excuses won't change that.

 

[goatmeister]

The goal scarcity can be somewhat argued but lack of apparent commitment is inexcusable.
The lad is massive at 1.93m, why is he not battling it out upfront.
Smaller dudes shoe-horned into CF position like Firmino, Mbeumo are not just relying on technical proficiency but equally relentless graft.
He could get away in his previous league but this isn't gonna fly in EPL.