Okay pal
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 5
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 1
Okay pal
That's exactly how I saw it too, think if he plays with Mainoo, Bruno/Mount and Amad more he will be key in how we move the ball about up the pitch and aid in making us more creative. He will also help us rotate Bruno out of the side because him at upfront and Mount in the hole could see us have more control but still retain some creativity. Exciting times ahead.
We finished 2nd in the league the season after versus 6th the season before. If you want to just ignore the league and rely purely on cup victories and PFA nominations as the only valid barometers of where the team was at, then crack on. Given the fact that league performance is typically considered the ultimate benchmark though, most people will weight the league performance much more heavily than you seem to. And on that front there’s simply no question we performed better as a team the year after.
No, sorry, YOUR idea of a successful season is league performance, but I'd wager if you asked most what season they'd rather have out of two cup wins and 6th or nothing other than a distant 2nd and I think they'd go the former. But if you're happy with the top four trophy above actually winning things, then crack on.
Edit: the year after that second place we came sixth again. The ghost of Zlatan still haunting united, I guess...
This wasn’t a discussion about which season was more successful. It was a discussion about whether we performed better as a team with Ibra or Martial, which is a different question. Fair enough if you think a PFA nomination and two cup wins are clear evidence we played better with Ibra despite us finishing sixth in the league. It’s abundantly clear that quite a few people here disagree with you, and disagree with the very limited metrics you’re trying to use in substantiating that claim.
I hope you are not seriously comparing a 23 year old to 5-times Champions League winner who had been the best CDM for over a decade before that
We finished fifth the season before and sixth two seasons after. The second place the season he left was an outlier. It certainly is clear a few disagree - that's fine, it's a forum - but it's certainly not self-evident as a few seem to be trying to claim.
Edit: the discussion initially was actually me disputing the claim that Martial has been our best striker since Fergie left. Which is why I brought Ibra up.
Thiago Motta thinks that he is like Ronaldinho. His touches on Friday were actually quite brilliant. He is also 6'4" and not slow. He isn't a good finisher, though. He was a wunderkind in Holland but at Bayern he wasn't respected because of Lewandowski. But, is creditable that he went to a non-big club at Bologna and lifted himself up.
If he can get big club support at United and if RvN can teach him finishing, he may become the greatest forward ever. Has everything else.
If he can get big club support at United and if RvN can teach him finishing, he may become the greatest forward ever. Has everything else.
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Because the version every year after that has been the worst (mostly due to injury proneness than anything else to be fair). 19/20 Martial though and the earlier LW version ...
My main takeaway was that he's a feckin' unit.
What? No, I was responding to someone saying we didnt have any singning that hit the ground running. Hence the Case and Martinez mentions.
Hopefully Zirkzee does even better than both!
Honeymoon period, but this guy will be the caf's new scapegoat I reckon.
Absolutely loved his link-up play, that really stood out. Always aware of where his teammates are, brilliant first touch and passing. It's a very unique skillset to have. Can definitely see him playing alongside Hojlund in the 4-2-2-2, Bruno shifting to the left like he did vs Fulham or even going in the midfield two when chasing a game.
Very exciting signing, hope we properly use his strengths.
Very exciting signing, hope we properly use his strengths.
I thought he looked a bit 'shaky' really, I'd say he looked less assured than Hojlund. I was also a bit unimpressed when he lost that header to, I think, Smith-Rowe. If he had have won the header then we'd have been away, and he towered over the other player. But these are all observations I made too during the Euros and was shot down. He hasn't looked great in the air the few games I've seen of him (vs England he lost 3 or 4 aerial balls to England players with very little effort to even win them), despite his size. He had a little period of nice little passes, but it wasn't a particularly high level of play or anything, just that he controlled the ball and played a few passes during one phase of play.
I mean he has never been labelled an aerial threat despite his 6"4 frame, this is a well known fact. Although it seems like it should be a strong part of his game, it just isn't and he isn't that type of player. He is a link up CF and will receive the ball on the halfway line (either in the middle, or on the left) and will progress from there. This is well known and has been well scouted by most. He played to his strengths in his 30 minute cameo on Friday and that led to his debut goal which turned into the winning goal and 3 points.
I thought he looked nervous when he first came onto the pitch, but who wouldn't be? Debut match at OT under the lights on the opening fixture of the Premier League season. He handled it well and after his goal looked even more comfortable. I'd estimate that he'll score between 10-20 goals this season if he continues to play with his style of play and he's on the pitch with the likes of Bruno etc. There seems to be a lot of negativity toward him from the fanbase but he just won the Serie A Young Player of The Year on an 11 goal season, so there is a lot to be excited about that's for sure, and him scoring on his debut has silenced rival fans that were mocking the signing and I love it.
Just my observations, that's all. Not writing him off, but equally I'm not expecting anything amazing either.
I don't know if he is or isn't supposed to be good in the air, but I would have expected that anybody that is 6' 4" would be beating the likes of Smith-Rowe to 50/50 headers. It was the same in the Euros, losing out on aerial balls to guys a lot smaller than him, who just seemed to want it more. I also thought his general play in the Euros reflected what I saw in his cameo the other night too, perhaps his height and build just makes him look awkward, he just hasn't looked 'assured' in what I've seen.
Maybe the occasion has just got to him both on his debut and in the Euros? This is a guy that is 23 years old though, he's not a kid. I think he'll simply be a backup to Hojlund anyway, so I'm not overly concerned. But I can see why he was behind Memphis (technically more proficient) and Weghorst at the Euros. He doesn't look ready to lead the line at the top level just yet.
Well that escalated.
He played about 5 minutes total at the Euros, right at the end of matches when the Netherlands were either hanging on or desperately punting the ball up trying to get an equaliser. Seems rather a small sample to try and extrapolate any themes.
My own recollection of his performance in the few minutes he played versus England was that they got the ball to him once and he swiftly and skilfully played it out to the wing. I remember thinking it was exactly what United needed. I don’t recall seeing anything in those 5 minutes which caused any concern (if we are punting it up to a front man then neither Zirkzee or Hojlund are the right player for that style).
As it stands, I expect him to be starting ahead of Hojlund when both are fit. He’s a better all-round player and a better fit for our team at this point in time. Will be good to finally have some competition for places in that area though. If Hojlund improves and keeps him out of the team that will be great as well.
Just checked the stats and he had 4 touches against Turkey and 1 against England - which must be the good bit of play I remember. Beyond me how anyone could make any conclusions from that about his general play.
As someone else has just pointed out as well, he literally played 4 minutes in the entirety of the Netherlands campaign. Are you confusing him with someone else? Because there is absolutely no way near enough evidence from his brief spell at the Euros to be so negative toward him. The referencing of 50/50's in the air is relevant but also irrelevant, both can be true at the same time. He's a 6"4 player that isn't strong in the air, that is not his playstyle. I'll say it again, he won Serie A Young Player of The Year on an 11 goal season. 11 goals isn't exactly ground breaking, but that is my point.. he is strong in other parts of attacking play which makes him an asset to us.
The comparison to Weghorst is pretty crazy imo as well. Weghorst by all accounts, was tragic for us, he just has a good engine and great determination. He isn't technical in the slightest, his link up play came from his size and holding off opponents and he couldn't hit a barndoor either. If you're looking to reference the Euros again and the fact that Weghorst had more minutes, then it's again pretty much irrelevant as Weghorst and Zirk are completely different strikers even though they might seem the same from their stature.
Admittedly I've seen very little of Zirkzee but I'm just not seeing the Ronaldinho comparisons. Maybe it's because Ronaldinho was so unique and full of so many tricks it's hard to see anyone being similar.
At least for the moment the Ibra comparisons are easier for me to wrap my head around.
Just possibly one of the worst posts ever about a debut player... as many have pointed out he barely played at the Euros so either you really just don't want to like this guy, or you know sod all about anything.
ah ok, sorry. Cheers
Are you always this pessimistic about everything? That is unhealthy way to go through life You may want to talk to somebody a about it.
Exactly. Weghorst was used by Koeman as a wrecking ball, that's not a role you'd give Zirkzee. It's silly to state he was ahead of order Zirkzee in the pecking order; they had completely different tactical purposes for Koeman. It's Memphis who was ahead of Zirkzee, and there were a lot of questions about that in Netherlands. (Rightly so, cause Memphis had a poor tournament. He kept starting mainly on the basis of his past contributions.)
And yes, Zirkzee had no more than a few minutes on the tail end of two matches, so to create a whole player profile on that basis seems rather exaggerated.
I can kinda see it though. He's not really a traditional striker, so if he plays in the CF position a lot and things don't go well, he might be an easy target for cilriticism (or the decision to buy him instead of, say, Toney).
But yeah, there is currently no evidence of a poor season and/or Zirkzee's contribution to it, so a little (very) premature to worry about that!
He’s very neat on the ball. Can work in tight spaces and links up well.
If he dovetails with Amad and Bruno we could have a solid hack for low blocks on our hand.
If he dovetails with Amad and Bruno we could have a solid hack for low blocks on our hand.
In 30 minutes he managed to deny most of excuses for Hojlund (yes, again me about Hojlund).
1. You can play with the back to the goal without trying to shield the ball only. His couple of plays on the centre of the pitch were joy to watch. Ball control and tidy passing were top draw.
2. Importance of positioning and reaction in penalty box. Cross was far from great but he reacted in a way as you would expect from United no9.
I like this guy a lot. I hope he starts next game.
).1. You can play with the back to the goal without trying to shield the ball only. His couple of plays on the centre of the pitch were joy to watch. Ball control and tidy passing were top draw.
2. Importance of positioning and reaction in penalty box. Cross was far from great but he reacted in a way as you would expect from United no9.
I like this guy a lot. I hope he starts next game.
Why would 2 English commentators not knowing about Zirkzee's play make you wish the US didnt host the World Cup?
Interesting to hear ETH post match comments on him when he said they had stressed to him how he needs to get in the box more and get on the end of balls like he did last Friday , up to now in his career he has not been a prolific scorer and does a lot of his best work outsider the box , build up , assists etc
But is is clear the Utd coaching staff will be working with him to become that kind of striker that gets on the end of a lot more crosses etc , will be interesting to see how that goes.
But is is clear the Utd coaching staff will be working with him to become that kind of striker that gets on the end of a lot more crosses etc , will be interesting to see how that goes.
I was watching on the US channel, they will presumably be on there for the World Cup when the US hosts? And I don't want to hear their god awful takes if that is what I'm going to get?
It’s almost as if they are two different players will individual strengths/weaknesses.In 30 minutes he managed to deny most of excuses for Hojlund (yes, again me about Hojlund
1. You can play with the back to the goal without trying to shield the ball only. His couple of plays on the centre of the pitch were joy to watch. Ball control and tidy passing were top draw.
2. Importance of positioning and reaction in penalty box. Cross was far from great but he reacted in a way as you would expect from United no9.
I like this guy a lot. I hope he starts next game.
It’s not a bad thing that Hojlund that Zirkzee are different kinds of players. It will be interesting to see how they combine when both on the pitch. I just hope you can celebrate no matter who scores.
The man scored the match winner after coming on as a sub. And the more you look at it, the more sweet his touch on the ball was.
We’ve got a long season ahead of us but we really may have found a super sub striker.
We’ve got a long season ahead of us but we really may have found a super sub striker.
This place can be as mad as a bag of hammers at times. Reading through this thread and you get everything from he could be the best striker ever to he is going to be the most hated player at United. Bloody hell , he came on in the 61st minute some nice touches and scored the winner on his Debut . Well done to him I look forward to seeing how he fits in here. I some times wonder if some on here are actually supporters. Some seem to want to just try cut down all our players all the time . I don't expect us to win the league this year but if we make progress and improve I will be happier hopefully this lad is a piece of that puzzle
I mean, there’s optomism and then there’s this. I’d be willing to bet he is abolsutely no where near the greatest forwards ever by time retirement comes around. First of all, the greatest forwards of all time were brilliant from the age of 16-18, they destroyed teams of fully grown men on their own. Secondly, you can’t just learn ‘finishing’, it doesn’t work like that, and it’s possibly the hardest thing in football. We’re been hearing for years now that Nunez will be world class once he ‘learns’ how to finish, hows that going?
Some people just have a preset agenda, and will take any excuse to bang on that drum.
"Zirkzee scored. Yes! Now I have a chance to shit on Højlund!". Gets old.
Watching the game, I think it's clear Zirkzee has just above the speed of Vini Junior, the touch of Berbatov, the pressing of Tevez, the flair of Ronaldinho, the mentality of Roy Keane, the grace of Zidane, the passing of Xavi, the dribbling and balance of Messi, the positioning & finishing of Ruud, the on-the-ball mobility of R9 and the tackling of AWB (yes - say something!)
This is not me meaning to be negative by the way, I'm just being understandably reserved with my assessment, simply because I don't want to go overboard this early in his Man United career.
This is not me meaning to be negative by the way, I'm just being understandably reserved with my assessment, simply because I don't want to go overboard this early in his Man United career.
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You're selling him a bit short there mate come on.
Not me, just realistic about how the caf behaves when things go south. He looked a bit Berbatov-ish to me and that'll get most on the caf on the fence eventually.
Sorry, I know. I didn't want to put too much pressure on as if he doesn't surpass each of those guys in terms of trophies won, individual accolades, etc., it would just feel to some of us like a monumental disappointment.