[ItDoesntEvenMata]

As long as they don't just pick the easiest targets like a young guy that has been here for only 4 months I agree. There are many that deserve it way more

In footballing terms he's not that young. He's a 1/3 of the way through his career. It's like pulling a 35 year old in an office job during their performance management for being consistently shit for 3 months

 

[VP89]

In footballing terms he's not that young. He's a 1/3 of the way through his career. It's like pulling a 35 year old in an office job during their performance management for being consistently shit for 3 months

He's not played many seasons at top level so yes he is young.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The decision making process to get this guy should be a case study for the club. I'd love to see the scouting reports. Unbelievably poor work from the football people involved.

 

[AndySmith1990]

It's really worrying that we employ people who recommended we sign such a useless player.

 

[Ekeke]

After that performance he now has our lowest pass % of the entire squad including Onana one place above him, and he'll occasionally hoof the ball up the pitch to clear it.

 

[afrocentricity]

It's more that Zirkzee is clearly well adapted to, and respected in Serie A, while vice versa for Douglas Luiz in the prem. I can see the logic in the move.

I want to see Zirkzee succeed but we need to be ruthless rather than sentimental, that's part of what has held us back these years, the desire for signings to always "come good, just one more year" - no, let's make moves and if players don't perform well, move on while they still have value.

Fair enough

 

[crossy1686]

As long as they don't just pick the easiest targets like a young guy that has been here for only 4 months I agree. There are many that deserve it way more

Whoever got subbed off first would have gotten booed. He just happened to be terrible yesterday.

 

[SilentWitness]

Didn't realise he was off after 30. Brutal.

 

[Doracle]

It was a Diaby at Arsenal level performance. Couldn't control the ball, couldn't pass the ball, didn't run off the ball. Apart from pelting the ball into his own net on repeat I can't think of much he could have done to have made it a worse performance.

He was rightfully booed off the pitch, the only shame is that Casemiro didn't get hooked with him.

It clearly wasn’t right to boo him off the pitch. He was obviously trying his best - he just had a particularly poor half an hour. The crowd should have been sympathetic to someone being subbed 30 minutes off, not taken out all their anger with the team on him. That’s not going to help him at all going forwards when his confidence looks shot already.

I also don’t agree with those who think he’s a 10. He doesn’t have the skillset to play there and it’s setting him up to fail to play him in that position ahead of Cas/Eriksen and with no attacking wingbacks. He’s a 9 who likes to drop off and link play, not a 10.

 

[Crackers]

Feel sorry for him. Hes been at the club less than half a season and the fans have already made up their minds. In a more functional team he would just be taken out of the spotlight for a few weeks and given some time to build up his confidence. He is clearly a player that needs confidence, and I hope Amorim is putting his arm around him now - the classy thing to do now would be to come out and take the heat in public, regardless of what is said behind closed doors.

As it is, I am guessing he gets a loan in January. I hope he finds his form and confidence again. This club has become incredibly toxic in a lot of ways - and this is just one more example of players getting scapegoated and abused by so-called fans, same way as Fellaini, Maguire and McTominay did before. Pathetic.

While I agree that the boos aren't nice - Fellaini, Maguire and McTominay make an obvious effort. Maybe it's a confidence thing, but too many of our players just walk around the pitch waiting for a pass. Would it be so hard to run a bit and create space? We're failing at the basics, and for too long we've let our players get away with the bare minimum

 

[sirAlexsglasses]

Are you sure Zirkzee even tried and ran? I saw different Zirkzee, I remember for sure he was lazy today. He wasn’t just very very bad on the ball but also off the ball.

I mean we will all see differently in games I guess, but from what I saw, he was trying, but like everyone else, he looked scared to receive the ball. It just looked like men v boys last night, and it doesn't help when he runs straight into an opposition player and is floored and requires treatment, just men v boys. When he received the ball he looked like he did not know what to do with it, and they could see this and exploited it.

 

[sirAlexsglasses]

Listening to Gabby Agbonlahor on talk shite (yes yes i know) and he was saying that there were reports of Zirkzee crying as he was going down the tunnel, if true then this is pretty shocking and I don't mean from the player so much, he's a young lad and the Premier League is unforgiving. His confidence with be shot to pieces and may never recover, he shouldn't have bore the brunt of how bad this team is.

 

[NinjaZombie]

As long as they don't just pick the easiest targets like a young guy that has been here for only 4 months I agree. There are many that deserve it way more

To be fair, they didn't choose who'd get subbed off. There was every chance anyone other than Amad would've been booed off.

 

[clarkydaz]

im not sure any other player would have got that much bile coming off. He had a target on his back after every touch and pass

 

[Godfather]

To be fair, they didn't choose who'd get subbed off. There was every chance anyone other than Amad would've been booed off.

I tend to agree. After these shambolic 30 mins where we looked barely a team worthy of PL football the fans would have picked whoever had been subbed first. And rightly so.
However what I would not approve is our fans clapping off the same players that have been here for many years whilst picking "easy" targets like Zirkzee. Players like Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro etc all deserve equal treatment for their shitty performances this season.

 

[Tribec]

im not sure any other player would have got that much bile coming off. He had a target on his back after every touch and pass

I remember back in the day, Brazil got as much bile. I'm sure he said it got so bad for him he'd do his warm up in the tunnel to avoid verbal abuse and people spitting at him. Milne also for what it's worth took as much flak.

I'll say this about last night, for that 30 minutes he was on, he was no worse than either Casemiro or Eriksen, if we'd taken both of them off and brought on Mainoo and Collyer I would have been happier.

Whilst I'm here, people are moaning about the type of player he is, yet they forget that Sherringham and Berbatov were brought in and looked in many ways as bad as Zirkzee has in the debut seasons. I've seen worse players than Zirkzee play for United and play far more games than him, to boo him and cheer him off last night was beyond awful, but bet your life should he come off the bench on Sunday and either equalise or score a very late winner the very same fans booing and abusing him will be singing and cheering his name long into the night.

 

[IWat]

but bet your life should he come off the bench on Sunday and either equalise or score a very late winner the very same fans booing and abusing him will be singing and cheering his name long into the night.

Obviously, I can't imagine many actually want him to be constantly shit but these players have been cheered and clapped off after serving up turd time and time again and nothing has changed, if anything it's regressed further... So it seems that is doing the square root of 0. If he puts his head down and comes back and puts in a shift, even if it's not brilliant football, he'll get an appropriate reception for that I'm sure.

I'm not justifying spitting or anything like that for the record. I hope anyone found to be doing that gets a stadium ban.

 

[Red Star One]

I'm a bit tired with the constant excuses for a very poor recruitment and lack of effort. Zirkzee has been terrible and doesn't put half the effort required, which could've been anyhow expected had we scouted the reasons why he was so easily let go by Bayern. If you put him in the context of other mid-table strikers, he cost more than Evanilson, Joao Pedro, Wissa, similar amount to Cunha - all much better players with much better work ethic. And the bullshit about "he's still young, no criticism allowed" also has to stop because we're talking about the guy who's turning 24 next year and is in the same age group as Nicolas Jackson (also cheaper than Zirkzee), Pedro, Strand Larsen - an no one excuses them due to their age. If we want to move forward we really need to be a little bit more honest with ourselves and get real rather than constantly hope "surely one day he will come good", this applies to many other players.

 

[Chinchy98]

I was at the game last night, a Zirkzee was That Bad, I don’t recall one single pass that he controlled, or where he did not put us under pressure when there was no need. He was dire, and I think his body language / attitude was pretty bad, that said, I think he bore the brunt of the fans anger, as any one of those players should have been hauled off. Casemiro was as bad if not worse, and this is an elite level player who should know better. Every single player looked nervous and did not want the ball, at least Zirkzee tried, he ran, he was just poor. This team look’s bereft of any confidence at all.

I’d struggle to describe that performance as “tried/trying” I thought his off the ball work last night was as poor as I’ve seen from him tbh

 

[acnumber9]

It clearly wasn’t right to boo him off the pitch. He was obviously trying his best

Was he though? His movement off the ball was non existent. His inability to move led to us losing possession and Isak going through one on one for that awful chip he tried.

 

[P-Nut]

It clearly wasn’t right to boo him off the pitch. He was obviously trying his best - he just had a particularly poor half an hour. The crowd should have been sympathetic to someone being subbed 30 minutes off, not taken out all their anger with the team on him. That’s not going to help him at all going forwards when his confidence looks shot already.

I also don’t agree with those who think he’s a 10. He doesn’t have the skillset to play there and it’s setting him up to fail to play him in that position ahead of Cas/Eriksen and with no attacking wingbacks. He’s a 9 who likes to drop off and link play, not a 10.

Was he trying his best? He made 0 runs into space to receive the ball, ambled about and managed to miscontrol or misplace about every pass that did come his way.

I'm not too sure the booing was aimed at him specifically, but more at the fact that a player of his level is playing for United. He shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, never mind the starting 11, and it's due to the mismanagement that he is being put in this situations. However, when he is put in these scenarios, the least the fans expect is hard work and an attempt to do the right things.

 

[JJ12]

Didn't realise he was off after 30. Brutal.

Amorim could've taken 5/6 players off. Gutred with the fans reaction but at the end of the day he was absolutely shit (not the only one).

Wish he brought 2 off.

 

[McGrathsipan]

I dont get the whole " ah he'd be better in a good team angle". He may not look as bad but that would still be a million miles off where he needs to be.
He doesnt have it.

He has, or hasnt, shown any inkling that he has anything like the level needed to play prem football. Nothing at all.
He isnt a PL level player, in any way shape or form, let alone a player of the calibre United need to start climbing the table.
He simply shouldnt be playing in the premiership and certainly not with United. He just isnt good enough.

That said- its on others that signed him. The kid isnt to blame for that and the boos for him were unfortunate.
The blame goes to the people that signed him and Amorim for playing him.

 

[TheReligion]

This signing stands out as odd when you look at who we brought in over the summer:

De Ligt
Yoro
Mazraoui
Ugarte

I actually rate the above as good business and players that were needed. Zirkzee though just seems totally the wrong profile of forward (for Ten Hag or Amorim) and very niche.

I wonder who championed this signing and what the process was. Was it Ashworth?

 

[Tribec]

Obviously, I can't imagine many actually want him to be constantly shit but these players have been cheered and clapped off after serving up turd time and time again and nothing has changed, if anything it's regressed further... So it seems that is doing the square root of 0. If he puts his head down and comes back and puts in a shift, even if it's not brilliant football, he'll get an appropriate reception for that I'm sure.

I'm here, which sort of makes what I'm about to say hypercritical of me, but online forums, social media are cesspits, full of extreme views. I wish they could be more civil, but heck it isn't going to change any time soon. However, use them to call out players for shocking performances etc, call them what you want (within reason obviously), discuss till your hearts content, but at the match no matter how bad it gets you should be 110% behind the team and players.

None of them will tell you they are going out and performing badly on purpose, none of them will tell you that they don't care and aren't trying. What we've got is a collection of players all playing badly, no confidence and getting no luck when playing. Booing them off, cheering them being subbed etc, isn't going to do anything but contribute to breaking a player further. I mention Brazil in my previous post, at what level is it right that a player has to hide away from his own fans when warming up to play as a sub? That's where we are getting to again, it was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

Zirkzee may never do enough on the pitch to make himself a United great/legend, but he far better than quite a few United players I've seen over the past 50 years.

 

[Westerkerk]

I don't disagree with the booing/jeering of the substitution - paying fans should voice their frustration at the ground if they want to. Most people, like me, who were watching on TV had the same reaction - only difference is he couldn't hear us

Most disappointing this for me is the players should have been severely booed at half time (I only heard a small chorus of boos) and then jeered off at the end - whereas Amorim should have been clapped just to make a subtle point. Send these feckers packing with the knowledge they're not good enough, and not give them an easy out to blame yet another manager for their shitness.

 

[AndySmith1990]

If the likes of Ronaldo, Keane, Beckham, Rooney etc. were booed, how would they respond? Would they have a little cry and moan about being bullied on twitter, or would their attitude be "feck you all, I'll show you"

We know the answer. United teams used to be full of winners who could take defeat and criticism on the chin and come back stronger. Now we have a group of insecure children who want to be told how great they are

 

[IWat]

I'm here, which sort of makes what I'm about to say hypercritical of me, but online forums, social media are cesspits, full of extreme views. I wish they could be more civil, but heck it isn't going to change any time soon. However, use them to call out players for shocking performances etc, call them what you want (within reason obviously), discuss till your hearts content, but at the match no matter how bad it gets you should be 110% behind the team and players.

None of them will tell you they are going out and performing badly on purpose, none of them will tell you that they don't care and aren't trying. What we've got is a collection of players all playing badly, no confidence and getting no luck when playing. Booing them off, cheering them being subbed etc, isn't going to do anything but contribute to breaking a player further. I mention Brazil in my previous post, at what level is it right that a player has to hide away from his own fans when warming up to play as a sub? That's where we are getting to again, it was wrong then, and it's wrong now.

Zirkzee may never do enough on the pitch to make himself a United great/legend, but he far better than quite a few United players I've seen over the past 50 years.

Any other team the size of us having this extent of a fall from grace I reckon you'd be getting pitch invasions, protests, riots, all sorts. We have by and large backed these players through thick and thin, people spend good money and take the time every week to travel to watch and are beyond fed up. They (and the club management) are in the process of killing the club, if god forbid we were relegated that very much is the end of the club probably, I highly doubt we'll survive that financially and will breach all sorts of rules. So if you're going to stroll around the pitch and not actually run that's criminal to me.. I'm fed up of facilitating the clubs death by clapping it. Maybe it's just time for me to knock it on the head and move on.

 

[kouroux]

It’s true, we’re a circus when it comes to stories like this, but you have to wonder if that was the best preparation for a lad who’s moving to a new league. Perhaps he just wasn’t expecting to be in the firing line any time soon? Slowly adapt over the season or something

Even in the best case scenario, that sort of mentality was completely not suited for a big club

 

[Litch]

Stop this nonsense now man. This is Football the players wear a red shirt and that’s all that matters.

Paul Pogba was a one off and was wrong. But we don’t have a racial issue at Manchester United. This narrative that has been built off the back of Paul Pogba is weird. He’s crap and he got booed. The players don’t deserve to be booed, but the same fans moaning are the same fans that want to criticise top reds for not booing managers and letting the club know when it’s there time to go.

Racial problem, what are you on about?

 

[led_scholes]

Any other team the size of us having this extent of a fall from grace I reckon you'd be getting pitch invasions, protests, riots, all sorts. We have by and large backed these players through thick and thin, people spend good money and take the time every week to travel to watch and are beyond fed up. They (and the club management) are in the process of killing the club, if god forbid we were relegated that very much is the end of the club probably, I highly doubt we'll survive that financially and will breach all sorts of rules. So if you're going to stroll around the pitch and not actually run that's criminal to me.. I'm fed up of facilitating the clubs death by clapping it. Maybe it's just time for me to knock it on the head and move on.

This. Wasn't it ajax last year when fans invaded the locker rooms?

Players here expect now to come, get their millions and then proceed to stroll.

Does Zirkzee really expect that fans will clap him after 4 months of strolling? Well, if he doesn't like it here, he can ask to leave, lose his loyalty bonus or whatever, and facilitate a move by accepting a lower wage.

 

[Bon1803]

The thing that immediately struck me about him was a video of him doing some exercises as part of his medical , he looked like he couldn’t be bothered or was just far too relaxed. Made me think he is either go to be incredibly good or a waste of time. It’s looking like the latter at the moment.

I do think there is a player there but he is just not suited to us , more so with the situation we are in. He does show these little flashes here and there but is no where near as intense and focused as is required.

He was bad against Newcastle but he certainly was not alone. His confidence will take some rebuilding after that.

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

Racial problem, what are you on about?

You said some things were more important than Football when the poster mentioned booing.

What “somethings” was you referring to?

 

[NinjaZombie]

I remember back in the day, Brazil got as much bile. I'm sure he said it got so bad for him he'd do his warm up in the tunnel to avoid verbal abuse and people spitting at him. Milne also for what it's worth took as much flak.

I'll say this about last night, for that 30 minutes he was on, he was no worse than either Casemiro or Eriksen, if we'd taken both of them off and brought on Mainoo and Collyer I would have been happier.

Whilst I'm here, people are moaning about the type of player he is, yet they forget that Sherringham and Berbatov were brought in and looked in many ways as bad as Zirkzee has in the debut seasons. I've seen worse players than Zirkzee play for United and play far more games than him, to boo him and cheer him off last night was beyond awful, but bet your life should he come off the bench on Sunday and either equalise or score a very late winner the very same fans booing and abusing him will be singing and cheering his name long into the night.

Unfortunately for Zirkzee, he was the most sensible choice to take off. We needed to bring in a centre midfielder, and Eriksen was the only one who could switch positions which was unfortunately the position Zirkzee played in.

You mention Berbatov and Sheringham, yes there are resemblances. But those two came into much better teams and in a different era where you can have passengers. A lackadaisical player who is not as talented as those two is not a luxury you can afford in a team as bad as us.

I blame the idiots who looked at Zirkzee and thought, yeah this kid is what this team needs this summer.

 

[golden_blunder]

If the likes of Ronaldo, Keane, Beckham, Rooney etc. were booed, how would they respond? Would they have a little cry and moan about being bullied on twitter, or would their attitude be "feck you all, I'll show you"

We know the answer. United teams used to be full of winners who could take defeat and criticism on the chin and come back stronger. Now we have a group of insecure children who want to be told how great they are

Whilst you’re correct, and it was correct to sub him, one must be cold hearted to not feel some sympathy for him

 

[Ichabod Ferguson]

The boos and jeers last night left a bad taste in my mouth, that was bad form by our fans.

He was shocking, so so poor, but no one should get that from their own fans. He's a young kid still finding his feet at the club, not someone whos been here years like some of the previous jokers.

I cant see him playing again after that, surely thats a sign to Amorim he cant play in this system, or just isnt good enough, even if he is still in the squad, he probably wouldnt want to play for us again after that treatment.

I'm going to strongly disagree with this. Our players have over a period of years been shielded by the fans in the stadium.

I appreciate football hipsters consider demanding hard work from your players akin to voting for Brexit, but I think the least you can demand from any football player is they put in the effort. Zirkzee has turned up, dropped stinker after stinker and hasn't even had the common decency to try.

Our fans absolutely have the right to criticise players who take the piss, as Zirkzee has done since he's got here.

I'm glad he apparently cares enough to be upset about it, because nothing about his time at United so far would suggest he cares at all, hopefully if he plays for us again he will remember it and put in some effort. He'll still probably be shit, but that you can't blame him for, not trying you very much can.

On a personal level I feel for him being thrown into a shit show and being severely over promoted, and I think it's best for all of us if we part ways in January, but his own attitude and style are responsible for why people have turned on him.

 

[Litch]

You said some things were more important than Football when the poster mentioned booing.

What “somethings” was you referring to?

'Freudian slip' mentioning something racial cause I didn't? I think integrity, fairness, compassion, being humanistic etc....are more important than Football. The fact he gets hooked after 30 mins, that's a football decision but why do fans think booing is the answer? The lad just arrived at the club this season and fans think that's OK. Do you you think the club was built on this kind of support? It's fecking disgusting and I'm embarrassed as a utd fan.

 

[NoLogo]

I feel for him, he isn't good enough but he doesn't deserve all the hate, no one does.

The thing for me yesterday why I was glad he came off was that he exemplified the things that don't work at this club, that he can't make a 2 meter forward pass without passing it into an opposition player, make no runs that are actually useful and just be a step too late for everything.

 

[Litch]

I'm going to strongly disagree with this. Our players have over a period of years been shielded by the fans in the stadium.

I appreciate football hipsters consider demanding hard work from your players akin to voting for Brexit, but I think the least you can demand from any football player is they put in the effort. Zirkzee has turned up, dropped stinker after stinker and hasn't even had the common decency to try.

Our fans absolutely have the right to criticise players who take the piss, as Zirkzee has done since he's got here.

I'm glad he apparently cares enough to be upset about it, because nothing about his time at United so far would suggest he cares at all, hopefully if he plays for us again he will remember it and put in some effort. He'll still probably be shit, but that you can't blame him for, not trying you very much can.

He is not taking the piss, he is just not good enough, there is a difference. He has been here 6 months and there have been players here for years, and yes taking the piss and have never been booed. It's shocking behaviour from fans. This club has been built on the nurturing of youth, not booing them.

 

[Ichabod Ferguson]

He is not taking the piss, he is just not good enough, there is a difference. He has been here 6 months and there have been here for years, and yes taking the piss and have never been booed. It's shocking behaviour from fans. This club has been built on the nurturing of youth, not booing them.

I find it hard to believe the current situation at the club would be worsened had Rashford been booed when he started dropping stinkers whilst walking around the pitch. Perhaps, even, it could have been the kick up his arse he needed. Players can be nurtured and supported whilst being held to certain standards of effort and application.

Zirkzee might be young, but he has no connection to the club or the fans, and hasn't for one second looked like he's bothered. He'd be forgiven for being not good enough, as have plenty of players who have become cult heroes (Weghorst being the most recent example) and he's not being booed for that, he's being booed because he doesn't work hard. That's unforgivable and fans have every right to express it.