It's the absolute BS spouted to excuse the manager from failure which only small club like Arsenal and now United do that. The likes of Juve , Bayern , PSG, Madrid or Barca will never accept "building for long term success" excuse. Win it right now or sack the manager there is no other way. Those club are dominating their league because they only after for short term success but repeat it over and over again every season.
Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04
- Thread starter ArjenIsM3
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Spurs may be defensive but if they do win the PL they'll do it with one of the best collections of goals ever.
"We". He'd be backing his old club in that case against Pogba and Jabba the Hut
There was talk of you being sacked even though your work performance was great?
I do think there's a bit of an argument to be made about the sustainability of it all but only time will tell.
Looking at something like that it's quite unusual for a team to score 4 from a combined 1.38 xG across 3 games and concede 0 from a 3.23.
Having said that I do put caveats in there. Top forwards score at a better rate than xG consistently. Son & Kane are top forwards. Top goalies save shots at a better than expected rate consistently. Lloris is handy. Still part of me looks at that and thinks they had the rub of the green a bit there.
Of course, scoring early in the 2 they won there is part of what went on to be. Neither were huge chances at all but seeing as they did score it arguably allowed them to play out the rest of the game the way they did, one in front, soaking up what the oppo can muster which in Arsenal's case was barely anything and not even necessarily looking to counter too hard, just when there was glaring opportunities to do so. They wouldn't necessarily have played that way should the early goal not have come in those games although they did against Chelsea so who really knows.
I do like xG but I think it is possible to break it (or for it to be wrong for certain tactical setups). Klopp kind of has the past couple of seasons, maybe Mourinho can too.
Swings and roundabouts too to an extent on xG, sometimes it goes with you, sometimes against. Probably merited at least a point against Everton on opening day looking at it but lost and should have beat Newcastle but drew. Southampton and Burnley are games they won but maybe should have drew on that measure.
Tbf, they really don't except for maybe Messi whose overperformance is due to ridiculousness from outside the box shots.
Kane on an average overachieves it by 2-3 goals per season, which is not exceptionally high. Ronaldo, post 14/15, last season was the first time when he exceeded his xG and he did that by 1.57 as per understat.
What he's doing right now is similar to our 2nd season. Overperformance in terms of results, with the performance not backing it up
Ok let's talk again in March.
And perhaps it's appropriate. Say what you will about José, but no player should ever be able to undermine a manager and get away with it, let alone the club taking the side of the player.
It completely shifts the balance of power.
It was a terrible decision that the clubade, and we've paid for it. Should have sold him long ago.
Managers shouldn't get the final say unconditionally, if we listened to Big Phil Scolari we would have got shot of Drogba and replaced him with a washed up Adriano.
False position at the moment. Unsustainable in both attack and defence. Kane would hit 62 goals and assists if he carried on at this rate and Son 44.
What an utterly ridiculous statement. We're not even 30% of the way through the season - and Spurs lead the table only on GD from last year's runaway champions. Yet you claim it's a "bottle job" if Spurs don't win the title?
Right now Spurs are in the conversation as possible title contenders - nothing more, nothing less.
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we are in the position we deserve to be after 11 games, obviously that could change but its not false.In a thread full of slightly outrageous comments, this has to be one of the more outrageous ones. What a weird weird comment.
Also, for reference as I think people get certain ideas in their heads and then struggle to move away from them, the average age of all the players we've signed under Mourinho so far, taking into account a good number are loans is 25 and a half years old. If you take out Hart, who's just been signed to sit on the bench as a HG player, its 24 and a half. The likes of Bergwijn, Rodon, Reguilon, PEH may end up being up being crap (or taken back by RM) but they are not old players Mourinho is using to try and win quick success now.
Most Spurs fans are actually quite happy with how he's approached the youth teams so far. We'd gotten a bit fed up of Poch's policy of refusing to send players he saw as being close to the first team on loan and, at least imo, really stalled careers of players like KWP.
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In terms of posts there have been quite a few shockers in this thread I gotta say.
I was very impressed by Spurs in the derby. They controlled the game and every player has bought into the Mourinho method. Obviously it's shit on a stick football for the most part (as you'd expect) but 11 lads working for the cause will always get you results. Especially when you have three or four world class ones in there.
One thing I realised was that Dele Alli wasn't in the squad. In that Amazon doc they hinted that he's turned into a bit of a prima donna and I heard Poch say when discussing the charisma of Maradona that Dele also had a similar charismatic quality but he caveated it with "when he first came in". Obviously Spurs fans can maybe enlighten me on that but it looks to me that Jose isn't going to be making the Pogba mistake twice.
One thing I realised was that Dele Alli wasn't in the squad. In that Amazon doc they hinted that he's turned into a bit of a prima donna and I heard Poch say when discussing the charisma of Maradona that Dele also had a similar charismatic quality but he caveated it with "when he first came in". Obviously Spurs fans can maybe enlighten me on that but it looks to me that Jose isn't going to be making the Pogba mistake twice.
With Dele the ball is very much in his court - either he gets with the programme and works his arse off to get back into the team or he will be out the door in January/the summer. I'd like to think he will stay but right now it's looking more likely that he just isn't a fit for us now which is a shame.
As one of the posters who backed Mourinho till the time it became too toxic to support him anymore, I look back at his time and feel that it was a missed opportunity for the club and we should have gone in a different direction. I will not discredit his time here unfairly but at the same time, he left the club in a really precarious position with a lot more questions than answers. The confidence of young players such as Rashford, Shaw, Martial was completely destroyed and the football identity was reduced to hoofing upto Lukaku & Fellaini. In all fairness we did win the EL & LC and reached the FA cup final, but it was not enough compensation for the long term damage he caused.
I can understand the Spurs fans here being excited with their current league position but I can say this, with experience on my side, they will soon rue the day Levy went in this direction. Ofcourse, if Jose wins something major (e.g. the league) in the process then the pain will be worth bearing but its quite a high risk gamble to take.
I can understand the Spurs fans here being excited with their current league position but I can say this, with experience on my side, they will soon rue the day Levy went in this direction. Ofcourse, if Jose wins something major (e.g. the league) in the process then the pain will be worth bearing but its quite a high risk gamble to take.
If winning by any means is good enough for you, then fair enough.
But will you still tolerate this kind of football if you end up with nothing at the end of the season?
First time I can every remember a Spurs team being dreadful to watch. Even when you were a nothing, mid table team you at least tried to play the game in the right spirit.
Chelsea have also been pretty dire to watch in their big games this season.
They looked scared of Liverpool and were clearly setup just to try and hang on for a draw.
Almost as bad against UTD and never went for it enough against Spurs either.
A bottlejob if they don't win from here?
Spurs winning the title would be a fantastic achievement for all involved. No argument.
I dont think the collective spurs fans care about how enjoyable the match viewing is for the neutrals as long as they win. And we are talking about a team where only Liverpool and Chelsea have scored more goals. Spurs definitely have it in their capability to take the game to teams and look to score if they need to chase. But at two nil up vs Arsenal Jose will always instruct a conservative approach, especially when it has been working so well for them. Look at the City game, all the possession in the world for City but telling that Rodon came on for Alderweireld around the 81st minute and had one defensive action in about 14mins of play, that is how in control of that match Spurs were.
I think Alli, Winks and Sanchez days are numbered under Jose. Sanchez too many lapses, all the athleticism in the world with poor decision making. Alli, not sure, attitude problems? Im sure the Spurs faithful know whats going on here. And Winks is a squad player who thinks he should be a starter.
Every time Spurs go on a good run the Spurs fans on here always come out in force. Acting like Spurs are a big club and giving it large. Never see most of them when the team are doing rubbish. You know who you are.
xG says otherwise. Like Leicester last season this form is unsustainable in the PL. Be warned xG is a cruel mistress.
It is not, but we are not playing at our peak level. If we improve and Ole start manage us better then we could get even better form. If we decline it could get worse.
You can't know that by just judging us so far. Martial, Rashford could be more effective.
I guess Bruno being so good might not last if we burn him out, but we will see.
Same can be said about Spurs. They could build on the form and improve. Historically though Mourinho starts well and then decline eventually.
Although it has often been enough for league titles before he managed us.
I rather think it's a case of some opposition fans who act like Spurs aren't a big club.
I don't think we are dreadful to watch at all - as a Spurs fan i'm hugely enjoying our defensive play at the moment - the team is working extremely well and we look devastating on the counter which I find exciting. May be dull for neutrals but why would I care about that? Winning at any cost is 100% fine by me by the way if it works.
Spurs are a big club. You are only making yourself look like a buffoon or on the wind up suggesting they aren't.
xG against City, Chelsea and Arsenal.
I know - they are entitled to demand results over entertainment after so long without a trophy considering some of the players they've had. I've no problems with Mourinho's tactics. He did the same thing when we went 2-0 up against Arsenal in the game where de Gea had to make about 15 saves. It's the old Jose and his technicolour overcoat song all over. Feels somewhat ominous for other teams even if I think Spurs probably lack a little depth. Some of the others - Bergwijn, Moura, Lo Celso really got to get a move on and start chipping in with the goals now.
Winks - I don't see it with him. He's just like Tom Cleverly. Decent player but that's about it. Jose doesn't rate Sanchez - that was obvious when we played Ajax in the Europa Final.
Agree with you on Winks - he is a decent player but not quite good enough to be a regular starter at a top 6 side. I can see him moving on because he will feel like he should be playing. Sanchez who I rated highly, unfortunately doesn't have the necessary concentration to cut out those costly mistakes and I think his days are also numbered. Aurier was very like Sanchez - very athletic but prone to wildness and errors - look at the transformation with him - he looks absolutely top class now so maybe Sanchez could pull it around as he is still relatively young but I don't think Jose will have the patience.
I'm totally fine with all of this by the way - I back the manager 100% and if he feels a better option could be found for the team then that's fine by me. Apart from Kane of course - the day Kane leaves will be a very sad day. I was convinced he would go next summer but now I think he will stay as long as Jose is here.
Not sure what i want least, Liverpool or Mourinho to win the PL again.
Both would piss me right off.
Both would piss me right off.
Mourinho would piss you off as much as Liverpool...? Really??
I guess all Spurs fans would love it, if that happens, considering that the last time they won the league, the dinosaurs were still walking on Earth.
While there, I actually would love us winning the league, even if that means finishing near the relegation zone the season after that. Much better than consistency finishing second-seventh without even challenging for the title.
That's how the majority of the caf thinks but very few as honest as you. Still, I can't understand the hate Jose gets in here.
Polled us all have you?
I would be happier for Spurs to sign Lukaku, Di Maria and Sanchez in January, and for them to win every game by 3 goals until the end of the season - than for Liverpool to win the league.
I am sure Chelsea fans don't regret Jose coming and winning the league for them.
What scares me more is Woodward getting Poch and us becoming like Spurs. Play nice football and win nothing.
I would rather win Jose style rather than play like Poch and win nothing.
What scares me more is Woodward getting Poch and us becoming like Spurs. Play nice football and win nothing.
I would rather win Jose style rather than play like Poch and win nothing.
Yes.. this is how it should be. Lift up your hopes, drink the Mourinho koolaid and despair as it all comes crashing down next season.
I don't claim anything. I'm saying if you do bottle it, similar to what you did under Poch, then what has changed? If you want to stick with Mourinho after that happens then good luck. If you belive that Mourinho will keep the job without winning a trophy that's cool, if you think he will build a new winning team full of young players to last for years then go with it, if you think certain players wont have a fallout with Mourinho then that's on you. It's all opinions, but if you believe all of the above then I'm not the one being outrageous.
You said "Spurs with Mourinho should expect to win the league in the position they are in right now", and clearly implied that if they don't it would be a "bottle job".
That's a totally ridiculous view.
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