Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[goin4glory]

Explain then why he kept Lingard, and subbed Mata and Martial when we were 2-0 down?

Martial was on a yellow and had made a number of fouls after getting booked, Huddelsfield were baying for him to get sent off and Mourinho couldn't risk it. If you look up my posts on Lingard you'll quickly see I think he's absolute trash and should never play for the club but he didn't have many options today given how the game/injuries panned out.

Mata was absolutely horrendous and cost us a goal, he gets away with far too much because he's a nice guy off the pitch, was rightly subbed.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mourinho had a far inferior squad. There's a reason we had finished 7th/4th/5th the previous 3 seasons while City were winning titles. Pep inherited players who're better than anyone even in the current United squad i.e Aguero/Silva/KDB.

Sure thing. Despite the two teams finishing level on points, City's squad was 'far' better.

Even if we assume that City had more 'top' top class players, we've added Pogba and Lukaku, in addition to De Gea and matched that anyway. City added young players and fullbacks, we added marquee signings. Both teams have very good squads. Both teams have spent big. No need for excuses for either.

 

[SNes]

I'm sure Pep would be dominating games with Lingard/Smalling/Young and Mata.

He's had three transfer windows to sell them.

 

[Yagami]

Explain then why he kept Lingard, and subbed Mata and Martial when we were 2-0 down?

The points people have are that they were both playing very poorly, which is valid I guess. I, like yourself, just don't agree with the sub's as no matter how poor Martial and Mata are playing, they still offer more than Jesse.

 

[Isotope]

Martial was on a yellow and had made a number of fouls after getting booked, Huddelsfield were baying for him to get sent off and Mourinho couldn't risk it. If you look up my posts on Lingard you'll quickly see I think he's absolute trash and should never play for the club but he didn't have many options today given how the game/injuries panned out.

Mata was absolutely horrendous and cost us a goal, he gets away with far too much because he's a nice guy off the pitch, was rightly subbed.

Ok. Fair then, mate.

 

[goin4glory]

City won the title once in that time. In 2014. Two seasons before Pep arrived.

My apologies city won "the title" and not titles. Imagine only winning it once in 3 years while we scraped to top 4 once. Are you seriously trying to debate that Pep inherited a better squad than Mourinho?

 

[Member 109952]

I think at the end of the day the blame goes to him for not signing in our weak areas. Did he think the likes of Mata,Miki and Lingard will become Isco, Ronaldo and Bale? Lukaka and Matic have been fantastic signings but not signing any fullbacks and not improving our wing options and N10 has come back to haunt us back big time. Signing Lindelof was a terrible decision aswell, not only because he looks shit and our Lovren, but we didn't need any CB. When we will have Rojo and Bailly back he will be behind those two plus Smalling and Jones aswell, Infact i would say Blind and Tuenzebe would look more physically ready then him. City went out identified players and bought them. Signing Perisic would have made no difference either. We don't need any more average players, we need actual quality players

This is exactly how I see it as well. The only problem really is that there weren't any cheap quality players available, City didn't really buy any quality attackers either, all their top ones e.g. Sterling, Sane and Aguero were already there. I would've been happy with any of Salah, Mahrez, Lemar or Perisic, anything's better than what we currently have. I was also hoping the lack of full back e.g. Aurier was due to Shaw coming back, but apparently Mourinho's not keen on him so I don't know. Just feel like attacking wise we did very little to improve on last season, and that lays with Mourinho. I'm a big fan of his in general though and the way he manages teams, just was disappointed by the summer.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Attackingly he is one of the most incapable coaches in the Prem, he has no clue and no strategy or patterns. We rely on individual qualities a lot, an attacking goach like Queiroz would help so much.

 

[breakout67]

What is important is the response from this. Will we get battered by Spurs and Chelsea, or will we put in good performances and come out with 4-6 points.

Nothing to defend from this performance; to have Mata as your only holding midfielder in any phase of the game boggles the mind; as soon as Lindeloff came on they started pumping long balls to him. The manager was out thought this game.

If the manager has us languishing in 6th place like last season then I would not complain one bit if he got the sack come May.

 

[OneUnited24]

Attackingly he is one of the most incapable coaches in the Prem, he has no clue and no strategy or patterns. We rely on individual qualities a lot, an attacking goach like Queiroz would help so much.

Amazing. Comparing Queiroz in any way to Jose. Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt his side hold the record for most goals scored in a season?

 

[goin4glory]

He's had three transfer windows to sell them.

He has to sign quality players before he can sell anyone.

 

[BigCaine]

They both play the same position. Unless you wanna take Lukaku out of the side. Did you bother to read my post? Pep inherited a clearly better side than Mourinho did and has outspent him since he arrived. Delph is playing because a 50m fullback is inured.

Doesn't matter if he inherited a better squad, after 1 season and 250mn spent on players, better squad argument doesn't work. Not pep's fault mourinho thought not buying a lb or a winger was a great idea.

Also why do you think Smalling is playing isn't that because Bailly is injured. And I am sure most other managers would have found a way to play Rashad and martial together. Mourinho just doesn't fancy too much attacking football.

 

[Runner]

He's in a very tough situation where our squad is ravaged by injuries and our back-ups simply aren't performing to the level expected of a Manchester United player. There's no excuse for that Lindelof mistake and I can't blame Jose for that. We're 5 points off 1st place and leading our group in the CL. I'm satisfied at the moment, it's a long season and our injuries are preventing the manager from fielding a team that's able to execute his tactics. It seems City has a much much stronger squad than us. It's too soon for me to evaluate Jose. I'm giving him more time. I wonder what this place was like under Moyes. Had the masses turned on him by mid October? Back the manager and believe in the team until it's become untenable.

 

[Isotope]

The points people have are that they were both playing very poorly, which is valid I guess. I, like yourself, just don't agree with the sub's as no matter how poor Martial and Mata are playing, they still offer more than Jesse.

So true. Just say we are spoiled to watch "beautiful" United under Fergie for almost 2 decades.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Amazing. Comparing Queiroz in any way to Jose. Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt his side hold the record for most goals scored in a season?

You think that was because of his tactics? He had prime ronaldo, ozil, di maria and benzema and kaka in the same team. We have a very poor attack and need a coach to get more out of our attacker. If we sign Griezmann, Dybala and Bale we will score 100 goals too, as he lets the attackers figure out for themselves.

 

[James Peril]

Ok. Fair then, mate.

And also, with Mourinho making those two obvious subs - with no subs left, an injury to someone could have left us with 9 men if Martial had gotten red-carded. If everything had turned to shit of course....

 

[kps88]

Biggest question he needs to answer is why the team looks tired in October. At the start of the season Lukaku, Matic, Valencia, Micky were all full of running, going past players with pace. They all look tired now and it's only going to get worse.

 

[El cangrejo]

This will end in the biggest civil war in Caf history, I feel.

Same thing happened with Madrid fans.

The guy is just toxic.

 

[OneUnited24]

You think that was because of his tactics? He had prime ronaldo, ozil, di maria and benzema and kaka in the same team. We have a very poor attack and need a coach to get more out of our attacker. If we sign Griezmann, Dybala and Bale we will score 100 goals too, as he lets the attackers figure out for themselves.

When you have good personal you do better things. Shocker!

 

[SwansonsTache]

Biggest question he needs to answer is why the team looks tired in October. At the start of the season Lukaku, Matic, Valencia, Micky were all full of running, going past players with pace. They all look tired now and it's only going to get worse.

This puzzles me as well, players look absolutely lethargic, and we're 8 fecking matches in, I dread the thought of what we'll look like in february.

 

[sammsky1]

He's in a very tough situation where our squad is ravaged by injuries and our back-ups simply aren't performing to the level expected of a Manchester United player. There's no excuse for that Lindelof mistake and I can't blame Jose for that. We're 5 points off 1st place and leading our group in the CL. I'm satisfied at the moment, it's a long season and our injuries are preventing the manager from fielding a team that's able to execute his tactics. It seems City has a much much stronger squad than us. It's too soon for me to evaluate Jose. I'm giving him more time. I wonder what this place was like under Moyes. Had the masses turned on him by mid October? Back the manager and believe in the team until it's become untenable.

That is an absolute fact: The transfer failings of Moyes and LVG are costing us on that front, no matter the total investment since SAF.

we need to stop comparing ourselves to City and instead focus on making progress against ourselves. As long as we have the ultimate mission of being no1, we'll get there soon enough.

Like it or not, we have finished 1st, 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th in past 5 years and had 4 different managers. It's highly unlikely such a team will come 1st this season.

 

[goin4glory]

Sure thing. Despite the two teams finishing level on points, City's squad was 'far' better.

Even if we assume that City had more 'top' top class players, we've added Pogba and Lukaku, in addition to De Gea and matched that anyway. City added young players and fullbacks, we added marquee signings. Both teams have very good squads. Both teams have spent big. No need for excuses for either.

Just because we finished on the same points doesn't mean the squads were equal, Chelsea finished 10th that season and I don't think Southampton had a better squad. There is no one in United's squad on the same level as Aguero/Silva/KDB. Pogba isn't an estbalished top class player, he has the potential to become one but he isn't yet and neither is Lukaku. Pep didn't "add young players and fullbacks" he spent 200m on Bravo/Stones/Gundogan/Jesus/Sane/Nolito. Before spending another 200m on Mendy/Walker/Bernardo/Ederson/Danillo. His fullbacks alone cost 100m.

 

[breakout67]

That is an absolute fact: The transfer failings of Moyes and LVG are costing us on that front, no matter the total investment since SAF.

we need to stop comparing ourselves to City and instead focus on making progress against ourselves. As long as we have the ultimate mission of being no1, we'll get there soon enough.

Like it or not, we have finished 1st, 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th in past 5 years and had 4 different managers. It's highly unlikely such a team will come 1st this season.

I said something similar to this in the 17/18 expectations thread. My expectation is to be comfortable in the top 4 this season and push for the league the next.

This city team got to the CL semi-finals in Pelegrini's last season and would have done a lot better in the league had the new manager not been announced. City were flying in the league, then Pep was announced as the next manager, and City's performances fell down several levels. They lost their motivation playing against mid table teams and were only up for the big games in the CL.

 

[goin4glory]

Doesn't matter if he inherited a better squad, after 1 season and 250mn spent on players, better squad argument doesn't work. Not pep's fault mourinho thought not buying a lb or a winger was a great idea.

Also why do you think Smalling is playing isn't that because Bailly is injured. And I am sure most other managers would have found a way to play Rashad and martial together. Mourinho just doesn't fancy too much attacking football.

Better squad doesn't matter? Is this a serious argument?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Just because we finished on the same points doesn't mean the squads were equal, Chelsea finished 10th that season and I don't think Southampton had a better squad. There is no one in United's squad on the same level as Aguero/Silva/KDB. Pogba isn't an estbalished top class player, he has the potential to become one but he isn't yet and neither is Lukaku. Pep didn't "add young players and fullbacks" he spent 200m on Bravo/Stones/Gundogan/Jesus/Sane/Nolito. Before spending another 200m on Mendy/Walker/Bernardo/Ederson/Danillo. His fullbacks alone cost 100m.

Pogba is better than Silva. And if those two aren't top class maybe we should have bought players of that level given we pent 160 million on them.

 

[Treble]

The biggest problem I see is that the team struggles to move the ball quickly. As a result, it struggles to control games away from home and sometimes even at home. Everton were looking quite decent and created chances before the last 10 minutes. Two big tests vs Spurs and Chelsea coming.

 

[AshRK]

City won the title once in that time. In 2014. Two seasons before Pep arrived.

I dont know how anyone cannit admit city had a much better squad. kDB , aguero, sterling, silva all were far better than what we ever had since sir alex left. Jose had no spine when he took over. He had to first build that and unfortunately nowadays with 250 million you can only get 7 players.

 

[goin4glory]

He's in a very tough situation where our squad is ravaged by injuries and our back-ups simply aren't performing to the level expected of a Manchester United player. There's no excuse for that Lindelof mistake and I can't blame Jose for that. We're 5 points off 1st place and leading our group in the CL. I'm satisfied at the moment, it's a long season and our injuries are preventing the manager from fielding a team that's able to execute his tactics. It seems City has a much much stronger squad than us. It's too soon for me to evaluate Jose. I'm giving him more time. I wonder what this place was like under Moyes. Had the masses turned on him by mid October? Back the manager and believe in the team until it's become untenable.

I agree with this, we're making clear progress under Mourinho. He's not responsible for the spending of Moyes/LVG and the dross they brought in.

 

[Dobbs]

Said it before but it's very difficult to just switch between extremely defensive to attacking, progressive football on a game by game basis. Players don't work like that, they need continuity.

 

[AshRK]

Sure thing. Despite the two teams finishing level on points, City's squad was 'far' better.

Even if we assume that City had more 'top' top class players, we've added Pogba and Lukaku, in addition to De Gea and matched that anyway. City added young players and fullbacks, we added marquee signings. Both teams have very good squads. Both teams have spent big. No need for excuses for either.

You are having a laugh mate if you think our squad is similar to city's. Pogba lukaku baily de gea are the only 4 guys who can claim to have a proper shout. Out of those 4 , 3 were bought by jose. Pep already had silva, KDB, aguero and sterling. He added more quality and is doing well.

 

[goin4glory]

Pogba is better than Silva. And if those two aren't top class maybe we should have bought players of that level given we pent 160 million on them.

You really think the majority of neutral fans would tell you Pogba is better than Silva? You're fairly delusional if you think so. We bought the best players available on the market at market prices. If Mourinho could have signed Modric/Kroos/Casemiro I'm fairly sure he would.

 

[Treble]

The progress has been only in the home games. The away form has been the same.

 

[Kush]

Mourinho has also spent an absurd amount with United. He has no reason to complain whatsoever.

As for this thread, we started the season superbly but the last couple of weeks have been poor. And it's evident that we still have to prove that we are genuine title challengers despite the good early form.

Read what he said, he never said Mourinho hasn't spent absurd amounts. It's that Pep has managed to outspend him despite having a far more stacked squad when he took over. Compared to every club bar one in PL he is doing fine, and that club happens to have the manager at the helm who has added to what was an already stacked squad.

We are the underdogs in this race and it'll remain that way if it does go down to the wire, Pep already had set of world class players in KDB, Silva and Aguero when he arrived. Players who have spent multiple seasons at the club and been part of multiple title wins (Silva and Aguero). How many we had apart from DDG? Mourinho has had to rebuild the attack from ground up and it shouldn't be a surprise to many that we are struggling without key personnel. Job here is more difficult than one at City, there were defensive frailties in City squad and he managed to fix that in this window. Since July they have been favorite for PL title.

Look at our team when he took over and he has to build basically a new defence along with new midfield and new attack. Still there are lots of holes in the squad, we don't have a specialist full back or a winger. Our squad options when our key men are out injured are Lingard and Young. Pep can throw on Bernardo Silva or Sterling or Danilo if required.

Sure thing. Despite the two teams finishing level on points, City's squad was 'far' better.

Even if we assume that City had more 'top' top class players, we've added Pogba and Lukaku, in addition to De Gea and matched that anyway. City added young players and fullbacks, we added marquee signings. Both teams have very good squads. Both teams have spent big. No need for excuses for either.

Manchester City added Sterling and KDB to what was an already devastating attack with Aguero and Silva, they were favorites for title that season and their form completely fell off the cliff when KDB picked up an knee injury and they announced arrival of Pep in early January.

Again you are missing the point, players take time to bed in and get used to. Look at the set of attackers he is using this season, with the exception of Bernardo Silva (who he is slowly easing in) rest have been there for at least a season and therefore you can see the chemistry in their play.

 

[Catt]

He’s going to park the bus v Spurs. Pray he doesn’t. We need a result.

He didn't last year at home. It's mostly the away games that brings out this side of him.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I think we all agree that City have a better team than us. The likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne are all quality and streets ahead of our players probably only Pogba comes close but even he is not mature enough like De Bruyne and Silva. Then even the likes of Jesus, Sane, Bernardo Silva and Sterling are all quality players who would start for us. From our Front four Lukaku, Martial and Rashford are the only players i actually rate.

But even our quality players have major flaws which the likes of Silva, De Bruyne and Aguero does not. Lukaku is a brilliant finisher but his hold up play, first touch, dribbling and link up play leaves alot to be desired. Rashford looks like a deer in headlights on the left wing and his close control and dribbling is very weak. The only player whose technically perfect is Martial for me.

With all top teams you have some world class players who are always giving 7 to 8 out of 10 and even on their bad days their touch and passing does not desert them, they are not as effective. Barca have Messi, Iniesta, Busquets and Suarez, Madrid have Modric, Kross, Isco and Ronaldo, Bayern have Lewa, Thiago, Robben, Muller, Ribery and PSG, City all have their lot you get the picture. They all perform to the required standard attacking wise and then their teams can afford the hit and miss players who blow hot and cold and have off days but overall quality is still good enough to succeed. We only have these three quality along with Pogba as our quality players but the difference is our best players are the inconsistent ones who blow hot and cold and their backup is extremely average players.

Every best side has this feature and our best sides had the same from 2006 onwards we had Scholes, Carrick, Giggs as our World class players alongside Rooney and Ronaldo, we could field players like Nani, Berba and Valencia and compensate for those because they would perform 7-8 each week. We need to sign our top players who can perform at the highest level each week and let these three (Lukaku, Rashford and Martial) develop and become worthy and taking the charge forward.

 

[Offside]

He didn't last year at home. It's mostly the away games that brings out this side of him.

We were still too defensive at home last year. Whenever we went 1-0 up we parked the bus.

 

[Catt]

Tactical masterclass from the boss today, really proved his superiority over Fraudiola.
fecking end me

What is the points with this comment?

 

[goin4glory]

I think we all agree that City have a better team than us. The likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne are all quality and streets ahead of our players probably only Pogba comes close but even he is not mature enough like De Bruyne and Silva. Then even the likes of Jesus, Sane, Bernardo Silva and Sterling are all quality players who would start for us. From our Front four Lukaku, Martial and Rashford are the only players i actually rate.

But even our quality players have major flaws which the likes of Silva, De Bruyne and Aguero does not. Lukaku is a brilliant finisher but his hold up play, first touch, dribbling and link up play leaves alot to be desired. Rashford looks like a deer in headlights on the left wing and his close control and dribbling is very weak. The only player whose technically perfect is Martial for me.

With all top teams you have some world class players who are always giving 7 to 8 out of 10 and even on their bad days their touch and passing does not desert them, they are not as effective. Barca have Messi, Iniesta, Busquets and Suarez, Madrid have Modric, Kross, Isco and Ronaldo, Bayern have Lewa, Thiago, Robben, Muller, Ribery and PSG, City all have their lot you get the picture. They all perform to the required standard attacking wise and then their teams can afford the hit and miss players who blow hot and cold and have off days but overall quality is still good enough to succeed. We only have these three quality along with Pogba as our quality players but the difference is our best players are the inconsistent ones who blow hot and cold and their backup is extremely average players.

Every best side has this feature and our best sides had the same from 2006 onwards we had Scholes, Carrick, Giggs as our World class players alongside Rooney and Ronaldo, we could field players like Nani, Berba and Valencia and compensate for those because they would perform 7-8 each week. We need to sign our top players who can perform at the highest level each week and let these three (Lukaku, Rashford and Martial) develop and become worthy and taking the charge forward.

I agree with you but if you actually read the previous posts in this thread you'll find posters who don't think City have a better squad than us.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I said something similar to this in the 17/18 expectations thread. My expectation is to be comfortable in the top 4 this season and push for the league the next.

This city team got to the CL semi-finals in Pelegrini's last season and would have done a lot better in the league had the new manager not been announced. City were flying in the league, then Pep was announced as the next manager, and City's performances fell down several levels. They lost their motivation playing against mid table teams and were only up for the big games in the CL.

Good post. As you say, top four finish would represent a good season.

 

[Catt]

What is the points with this comment?

Edit: darnit.