Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

Your stance

  • Top manager in charge of a major rebuild. Needs more time and/or money.

    Votes: 684 43.8%

  • Made improvements but we've stagnated. Sack him if we drop out of top 4

    Votes: 377 24.1%

  • He's not the right fit. Sack him and get someone else who can get more out of our squad

    Votes: 502 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,563
  • Poll closed .
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Lentwood said:
We have some wierd fixation with young players in England. Both domestically and in the National team.

People bang on and on about blooding youngsters and talk about anyone over 27 as over the hill and short-term options which is ridiculuous

A common myth is that we won a title with kids - well, not really. Schmeichel, Irwin, Bruce, Pallister, Keane and Cantona where hardly spotty teenagers and Giggs had been in the first team for 3/4yrs in 95/96. Weve got to focus on quality and experience first, then we will have the luxury of turning to Youth
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Excellent post. You can’t win anything with only kids in the team.
The younger players at United are getting minutes, unlike the ones at City.
You play the 11 best for the situation.
The whole ‘What about the future’ is silly. Now is the time to get us back on track with a winning mentality. As that gradually comes back, it’ll rub off on the younger players too. We can also be more attractive in our play once the winning mentality is ingrained and I think we saw a bit of that vs Spurs.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Excellent post. You can’t win anything with only kids in the team.
The younger players at United are getting minutes, unlike the ones at City.
You play the 11 best for the situation.
The whole ‘What about the future’ is silly. Now is the time to get us back on track with a winning mentality. As that gradually comes back, it’ll rub off on the younger players too. We can also be more attractive in our play once the winning mentality is ingrained and I think we saw a bit of that vs Spurs.
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Really?

United:

Rashford (20) PL/CL minutes: 1919
Martial (22) PL/CL minutes: 1811
McTominay (21) PL/CL minutes: 641
Shaw (22) PL/CL minutes: 736
Lindelöf (23) PL/CL minutes: 1554

Total minutes for players age 23 and under: 6661

City:

Stones (23) PL/CL minutes: 1593
Jesus (21) PL/CL minutes: 2007
Sané (22) PL/CL minutes: 2716
Sterling (23) PL/CL minutes: 2820
Silva (23) PL/CL minutes: 1898
Zinchenko (21) PL/CL minutes: 547
Foden (17) PL/CL minutes: 232
Diaz (18) PL/CL minutes: 84

Total minutes: 11897
 
Borden said:
Really?

United:

Rashford (20) PL/CL minutes: 1919
Martial (22) PL/CL minutes: 1811
McTominay (21) PL/CL minutes: 641
Shaw (22) PL/CL minutes: 736
Lindelöf (23) PL/CL minutes: 1554

Total minutes for players age 23 and under: 6661

City:

Stones (23) PL/CL minutes: 1593
Jesus (21) PL/CL minutes: 2007
Sané (22) PL/CL minutes: 2716
Sterling (23) PL/CL minutes: 2820
Silva (23) PL/CL minutes: 1898
Zinchenko (21) PL/CL minutes: 547
Foden (17) PL/CL minutes: 232
Diaz (18) PL/CL minutes: 84

Total minutes: 11897
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U23? Why not stretch it and include U25.
 
We're second to a team who have had an anomalous season, made it to the CL knockouts and are in our third cup final in 2 seasons.

Oh, and we just beat Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Spurs all in the past month.

Sure the performances aren't the most aesthetically pleasing but they're certainly getting better. As long as United win against whoever their opponent is, I don't really care.
 
Hercules said:
Are you sure? Any league? Bilbao beat us in the EL for one instance.

Also, if you see my other posts here, I've been saying that Sevilla defeat was all one Jose but anyone can make mistakes. Is that loss that bad that he should be sacked? I see progress in our results and performances. First let him win the league, then ask for entertaining football. The mess we were in, you cannot fix everything at the same time.

It was his first year the last season and he achieved his target. Win trophies and get back to the CL. This year he has beaten Top 6 teams and a chance to win another trophy and about to have our best league position since SAF. If this isn't progress then what is? If we win the league next season, I'd start demanding better football from 2019/20. You got to have the patience.
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Looks like white text is really necessary.
 
Borden said:
Because a) I have to draw the line somewhere, and b) it wouldn't change much.
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Sterling, Sane, B.Silva, Stones are already established players. U 23 makes no sense when nearly 200 Million was spent to sign them all.
 
Borden said:
Really?

United:

Rashford (20) PL/CL minutes: 1919
Martial (22) PL/CL minutes: 1811
McTominay (21) PL/CL minutes: 641
Shaw (22) PL/CL minutes: 736
Lindelöf (23) PL/CL minutes: 1554

Total minutes for players age 23 and under: 6661

City:

Stones (23) PL/CL minutes: 1593
Jesus (21) PL/CL minutes: 2007
Sané (22) PL/CL minutes: 2716
Sterling (23) PL/CL minutes: 2820
Silva (23) PL/CL minutes: 1898
Zinchenko (21) PL/CL minutes: 547
Foden (17) PL/CL minutes: 232
Diaz (18) PL/CL minutes: 84

Total minutes: 11897
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Not the fairest comparison in the world though, is it?

Sterling, Sane, Silva & Jesus cost a combined £170m or so, you'd expect them to be first choice at that price - also only Jesus has spent any time this season out injured.

Stones and Lindelof have a similar number of minutes despite Stones being in his second season and costing £20m more.

McTominay has more than double the minutes of the two City academy lads on the list.
 
RedPed said:
If we played the best football in years, won the League and FA Cup but finished 5th on GD, that would be classed as a failure by a lot of people. Jose's first season was ONLY saved by the fact that we got qualification into the CL....despite winning the League Cup AND Europa League.

I'm sorry but it IS all about that air of entitlement!
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Then that wouldn't be classified as the "best football in years". That would be "pretty but ineffective football", and criticism of Jose would accordingly be different but no less valid.

It's not entitlement that causes a substantial group of fans to feel that we're outperforming the actual quality of our football, which leads to some pessimism as to whether our current results are sustainable or not. There's been improvement lately and I've seen many of the critics on here acknowledge that, so I don't understand why you're choosing this time to call people out for being entitled.
 
Borden said:
Right, and Martial, Shaw and Lindelöf came free of charge.
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You made my point more clearer. So yeah U23 is not young players anymore.

Check how many mins U21 or U 20 players played or how many players academy players played.
 
Borden said:
Really?

United:

Rashford (20) PL/CL minutes: 1919
Martial (22) PL/CL minutes: 1811
McTominay (21) PL/CL minutes: 641
Shaw (22) PL/CL minutes: 736
Lindelöf (23) PL/CL minutes: 1554

Total minutes for players age 23 and under: 6661

City:

Stones (23) PL/CL minutes: 1593
Jesus (21) PL/CL minutes: 2007
Sané (22) PL/CL minutes: 2716
Sterling (23) PL/CL minutes: 2820
Silva (23) PL/CL minutes: 1898
Zinchenko (21) PL/CL minutes: 547
Foden (17) PL/CL minutes: 232
Diaz (18) PL/CL minutes: 84

Total minutes: 11897
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I was talking about academy players like Rashford and Mctominay, not players who’ve been bought for multi millions!
 
Borden said:
Well done Mourinho for inheriting one of the biggest talents in the world from van Gaal/our academy. Very impressive, give the man credit.
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I like McTominay as well, but that might be stretching it a bit
 
Rash Decision said:
Then that wouldn't be classified as the "best football in years". That would be "pretty but ineffective football", and criticism of Jose would accordingly be different but no less valid.

It's not entitlement that causes a substantial group of fans to feel that we're outperforming the actual quality of our football, which leads to some pessimism as to whether our current results are sustainable or not. There's been improvement lately and I've seen many of the critics on here acknowledge that, so I don't understand why you're choosing this time to call people out for being entitled.
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How can you outperform the quality of your football??? That's the strangest thing I've ever heard! If you score more goals than the opposition and win a game then that is what you ultimately deserve. There were times when City scraped through games, particularly at the beginning of the season but still managed to get the win. There were also games when we were all over the opposition but couldn't get the goal to win the game. That was basically the reason why they finished first and we will probably finish second.

This kinda confirms my point about the entitlement amongst some fans.
 
Borden said:
Really?

United:

Rashford (20) PL/CL minutes: 1919
Martial (22) PL/CL minutes: 1811
McTominay (21) PL/CL minutes: 641
Shaw (22) PL/CL minutes: 736
Lindelöf (23) PL/CL minutes: 1554

Total minutes for players age 23 and under: 6661

City:

Stones (23) PL/CL minutes: 1593
Jesus (21) PL/CL minutes: 2007
Sané (22) PL/CL minutes: 2716
Sterling (23) PL/CL minutes: 2820
Silva (23) PL/CL minutes: 1898
Zinchenko (21) PL/CL minutes: 547
Foden (17) PL/CL minutes: 232
Diaz (18) PL/CL minutes: 84

Total minutes: 11897
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Look at Rashford and McTominay's game time compared to City's academy players. Mourinho is awful with the youth and never gives them a chance they said. :lol:
 
Thomas A.Anderson said:
Football Manager syndrome. Everybody is fixated on age that is on paper, it's like it doesn't matter what the player brings on the pitch.

It really is weird, very large number of people on this forum is on Mourinho's back because he is just second in Premiership in his second season, they want instant success but in the same time they want Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Gomes, Martial, Rashford on the pitch, presumably with 5-0 wins every week. Impossible standards.
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Spot on. Too many of the prawn sandwhich brigade on here.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Look at Rashford and McTominay's game time compared to City's academy players. Mourinho is awful with the youth and never gives them a chance they said. :lol:
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Why exactly does Mourinho deserve more credit for playing Rashford than say Pep does for playing Sané? For the sheer coincidence that Rashford came out of our academy (which Mourinho had nothing to do with)?

The mental gymnastics some of you engage in to make Mourinho look good is really fascinating to watch.
 
Borden said:
Why exactly does Mourinho deserve more credit for playing Rashford than say Pep does for playing Sané? For the sheer coincidence that Rashford came out of our academy (which Mourinho had nothing to do with)?

The mental gymnastics some of you engage in to make Mourinho look good is really fascinating to watch.
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Maybe because Sane was one of the most highly rated youngsters on the planet before he moved to City? And Rashford was an 18 year old who had a handful of games under his belt having been unknown by most of the world 3 months prior.
 
Borden said:
Why exactly does Mourinho deserve more credit for playing Rashford than say Pep does for playing Sané? For the sheer coincidence that Rashford came out of our academy (which Mourinho had nothing to do with)?

The mental gymnastics some of you engage in to make Mourinho look good is really fascinating to watch.
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The only thing that is fascinating is how much you dislike the most successful United manager post-Ferguson.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Maybe because Sane was one of the most highly rated youngsters on the planet before he moved to City? And Rashford was an 18 year old who had a handful of games under his belt having been unknown by most of the world 3 months prior.
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Rashford was one of the highest rated prospects in the world when Mourinho took over United.
 
Oh dear, people can't even see the difference between signing a young player who has done very well at different club for big fee and a young player from academy who played just 3-4 months in first team. They don't know the known quality vs the unknown one.
 
Borden said:
Really?

United:

Rashford (20) PL/CL minutes: 1919
Martial (22) PL/CL minutes: 1811
McTominay (21) PL/CL minutes: 641
Shaw (22) PL/CL minutes: 736
Lindelöf (23) PL/CL minutes: 1554

Total minutes for players age 23 and under: 6661

City:

Stones (23) PL/CL minutes: 1593
Jesus (21) PL/CL minutes: 2007
Sané (22) PL/CL minutes: 2716
Sterling (23) PL/CL minutes: 2820
Silva (23) PL/CL minutes: 1898
Zinchenko (21) PL/CL minutes: 547
Foden (17) PL/CL minutes: 232
Diaz (18) PL/CL minutes: 84

Total minutes: 11897
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To be fair, the likes of Foden are only getting minutes now because the league has been won.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Maybe because Sane was one of the most highly rated youngsters on the planet before he moved to City? And Rashford was an 18 year old who had a handful of games under his belt having been unknown by most of the world 3 months prior.
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Rashford was one of the most highly rated youngsters on the planet when he broke to the first team and have been in 3 top Golden boys for 2 years in a row.
 
deafepl said:
Rashford was one of the most highly rated youngsters on the planet when he broke to the first team and have been in 3 top Golden boys for 2 years in a row.
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Rashford played 18 games when Jose took over. He won or finished in 2nd/3rd in Golden boy award after Jose took over.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Look at Rashford and McTominay's game time compared to City's academy players. Mourinho is awful with the youth and never gives them a chance they said. :lol:
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Why you putting Rashford`s name there, Rashford would never happen under JM, its easier to give minutes to a kid when someone else risked and had faith in him. JM giving a PL debut to a kid vs Wenger, yea, there is no universe where that would happen, it would be false nine time. On top, also OT crowd force minutes on homegrown kid who is one of their own.
 
R'hllor said:
Why you putting Rashford`s name there, Rashford would never happen under JM, its easier to give minutes to a kid when someone else risked and had faith in him. JM giving a PL debut to a kid vs Wenger, yea, there is no universe where that would happen, it would be false nine time. On top, also OT crowd force minutes on homegrown kid who is one of their own.
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It's quite possible he'd have given Rashford a shot.
 
deafepl said:
Rashford was one of the most highly rated youngsters on the planet when he broke to the first team and have been in 3 top Golden boys for 2 years in a row.
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I don't think he was. Had Martial not picked up that injury in Feb 2016, Rashfords career would have gone down a different route.

I'd say, at this present moment, Rashford is one of the most highly rated youngsters. Not 2 years ago.
 
R'hllor said:
Why you putting Rashford`s name there, Rashford would never happen under JM, its easier to give minutes to a kid when someone else risked and had faith in him. JM giving a PL debut to a kid vs Wenger, yea, there is no universe where that would happen, it would be false nine time. On top, also OT crowd force minutes on homegrown kid who is one of their own.
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Just giving debut doesn't mean giving chances. Rashford played just 18 games and was unproven kid.

Credit to Van Gaal for trusting him by giving him debut, credit to Jose for trusting unproven kid.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
I don't think he was. Had Martial not picked up that injury in Feb 2016, Rashfords career would have gone down a different route.

I'd say, at this present moment, Rashford is one of the most highly rated youngsters. Not 2 years ago.
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Rashford was pretty much an unknown, unless you followed the U18s etc, when he got his debut. I seem to recall he wasn't even THAT highly rated before his debut too.
 
Cheesy said:
It's quite possible he'd have given Rashford a shot.
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Yea...not a fecking chance, Costa was injured vs Moyes United and he didnt dare to trust his reserve strikers let alone some kid from academy, went for false nine with Hazard.
 
Borden said:
Why exactly does Mourinho deserve more credit for playing Rashford than say Pep does for playing Sané? For the sheer coincidence that Rashford came out of our academy (which Mourinho had nothing to do with)?

The mental gymnastics some of you engage in to make Mourinho look good is really fascinating to watch.
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So you want Jose sacked?
Did you enjoy the Spurs game? Can you see that we are gradually getting better and more attractive in our play?
 
roonster09 said:
Just giving debut doesn't mean giving chances. Rashford played just 18 games and was unproven kid.

Credit to Van Gaal for trusting him by giving him debut, credit to Jose for trusting unproven kid.
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You should tell that to JM, its him who came out with a list of 3 minute debuts as proof of youth development and trust lol.

18 year old playing 18 games for Manchester United in trot isnt just 18 games
 
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