We are out of the CL due to our own fault. But these things happen, people need to realize that only 1 team can win the PL/CL every season. We were FAR FROM BEING THAT TEAM when Jose took over, we ain't that far now. It shows progress, I'm sure if we have a City season next year, people on here will still be moaning.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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We are out of the CL due to our own fault. But these things happen, people need to realize that only 1 team can win the PL/CL every season. We were FAR FROM BEING THAT TEAM when Jose took over, we ain't that far now. It shows progress, I'm sure if we have a City season next year, people on here will still be moaning.
Tbf, we turned a tide. Our results have been good recently. Before that Jose's record was poor against the top 6 teams but clearly we are on the up. I hope next year, Jose shuts his haters up with a PL title.
Edit - didn't see the dates, I thought the latter was posted yesterday. In that case, feck the media.
It's disingenuous to suggest that the reason Mourinho receives stick is because there's an expectation we win the league or CL every season. It's bullshit, to be quite frank.
The issue lots of people have is the poor quality of attacking football - or the semi-regular games like West Brom or Sevilla. Or the number of games this season in which stringing more than five passes together in the final third can be considered an achievement.
That is why the 2nd place finish isn't good enough. People don't give a shit about it because the football is often shit.
Lots of them would accept third and no FA Cup final if there was an exciting blueprint in place that looked as if it could reap rewards down the line (hence Liverpool supporters have a lot more time for Klopp, delusional or not).
I'm not even looking to criticise Mourinho here - for a change. I just take issue with the idea that's it's an air of entitlement at the root of the aforementioned criticisms.
In other words, you'd trade places with the Spurs if you could.
So you are saying finishing 2nd and being in an FA cup final is worse than finishing 3rd with no FA cup and entertaining football? Given our football has been better since the Sevilla defeat?
Also, to the 1st bolded part - what were your expectations for the season? If it was just 'entertaining football' then lets agree to disagree.
I wouldn't trade places with either Spurs or Liverpool because there are restrictions that prevent them from getting to the top. Namely financial restrictions. Or in the case of Spurs, a set of bollocks
But it's certainly easy to see why their supporters are a lot more content with what they see than United supporters. Being easy on the eye is by no means a guarantee of success, but it can buy managers time and good will.
I'm not saying that, but I don't think football is played on paper.
Cast your mind back to 05/06. The last few months of that season. Something clicked, and it carried right through to the most successful period in the club's history.
I don't see that happening with us, do you? If I did, where we finished on paper, or whether we beat Chelsea in May, wouldn't be the barometer for me.
2nd, 3rd or 4th. It's a much of a muchness. Winning the FA Cup is great for the squad, and the importance of silverware can't be underestimated. But to answer your question, I started this season with very low expectations. Pre season was enough for me to realise that we weren't going to be pulling up any trees on the pitch. I couldn't even get giddy back in September because I was convinced the 4-0 wins were somewhat generous and that we'd still struggle to score goals at a title-winning pace (since proven to be the case). The attacking football I was watching wasn't exciting or creative enough for me and that's something I haven't been able to shake. Though it must be said that more recent games against our rivals have certainly been better.
What will really get Mourinho critics on board is an appealing style of football that supporters can buy into. An early 06/07 side that looks as if it can cause some damage. After two seasons I don't think we're anywhere near that. There's always next season...
Dear God not Persic again.
post was addressing bringing in experienced players around 28-30. Names are just examples
Fair enough, all your points. But do you think this team is better than our 05/06 side? Or PL still has 4 top teams, 5/6 is a lottery? Or take into account where we were when Jose took over? People were put to sleep when LvG was in charge and now, atleast myself, look forward to our games. You need more than a season to fix the mess we were in. To be honest, 4th and no FA cup challenge would have been bad but we are the 2nd best team in the league, results wise. Performances will come when Jose has full support and we need to provide that.
You cannot see anything exciting in our play at the moment, okay but I'd take this progress. We are finally getting our shit together. Mkhi was binned, I'm sure many of our under performers will face the same in the summer as well. I, for one, don't believe that Jose doesn't have any plan for the next season. 2 years of progress should make you atleast that much excited that you look forward to the next season.
Finish 4th, no trophies, I may think otherwise but it's a lot better than that (we can still finish 4th and no trophies) at the moment. One more year for Jose not because he is faultless but the mess was so huge that it would have taken time for any other manager as well.
Entertaining football will come once we win the league/CL as the minimum expectation is to win the league every season at this club. I'll start judging him next April.
Have more dynamic FBs than Valencia and Young who can provide width consistently.
Lindelof has done well recently and is improving. I never said he's going to be a world beater, who knows how good he's going to be in three years all I'm saying is you need to give him more time before judging him. And you are seriously kidding yourself if you believe that he's useless and has nothing to his game.
Spot on mate
It's very easy to write off a player after 6-9 months.
I'm not saying he is going to definitely reach the standards of Evra or Vidic, but I remember them both arriving here and being pretty poor for the first 12-18 months and Vidic was about 25 when he arrived. In my opinion, Vidic went on to be the best CB we have ever had and I certainly wouldn't have called it back in 2005 or whenever it was we bought him. In fact I reckon there were probably posts on the Caf from people saying Fergie has shown poor judgment and Vidic will never make it.
If you look at his age - he's 23 and you're writing him off, his ability on the ball, his potential and the moderate fee in todays game paid for an international CB, I think there's reason to be optimistic.
It should be mate, it should be. But on this forum, apparently it's not.
Who actually expects that? I genuinely don't know anyone on either side of the debate who thinks this.
Can the Mourinho loyalists complete any post without vomiting out playground insults like this?
You can look at my posts, where the feck I have said any fecking thing about anyone?
yeah, I know, just don't generalize.
Hope you are right but the signs are not good. Of course you expect young players to make mistakes and have periods of poor form but he hasn't impressed me at all.
That money could have been better spent on a full back this season, hopefully we have a few in mind for the summer
Yes it is unfair to accept slick passing football in two seasons. But with Mourinho the goal isn't to play slick football it is to play riskless defensive but efficient football. We will still be playing drab football under Mourinho in two years because that is his style. This is the best it is gonna get.
I don't think big clubs need to go for this approach as is evidenced by all the recent successful clubs (Bayern, Real, and Barcelona). We see City and Liverpool play breath taking football completely dismantling opponents. We all know under Mourinho that will never happen.
Liked you guys' optimism. He is Jose signing and i know for sure, Jose will give him another season or more to show what he got. Yes he is young and improving, but just that I dont see he has it in him to make it here. When players De Gea, Vidic, Evra, Shaw, Rashford struggled, we could still see something in them that point they might come good. However, I cannot say the same to Lindelof though.
We paid similar fees to what our rivals paid for Rudiger or Davinson Sanchez, but its day and night difference in their contribution as compared to Lindelof's. If you think he might eventually come good, then fair enough, but i do not see any signs.
You can look at any of the top european teams and they have vast experience, especially in their first eleven.
Just to correct you there, Evra and Vidic joined us in Jan 2006. Although both took their time in settling in, both were an integral part of the 2006-07 title winning defence and were first choices in their positions.
Unfortunately, with the way the have has gone, today if a kid hasn't made it by 19-20 then people tend to give up on them.
Same for signings coming from other leagues. If the player didn't become the main stay in his first season he is written off.
I am optimistic that lindelof will be a good signing but he has to learn fast to get used to the place and power of the league. Next season will be important.
Top European teams do not buy players after they are already 28 either. They buy young (at least below 28 years) and let them have experience along with the existing players.
You're absolutely right, my bad. Still time for Lindelof to improve though, he's 23 and improving. Strange how other posters call him a failure because he hasn't turned into a beast-mode CB within 9 months.
How about we look at City instead?
Only Otamendi, Kompany (usually injured), Silva, Fernandino and Aguero from their first 11 are experienced/older players. We have Smalling, Valencia, Young, Matic, Mata and Sanchez.
As for the bolded bit, because we're Manchester United. I always want us to be that team. Fwiw, experienced players don't necessarily perform better. See Mata, Valencia, Young etc. who people want replaced.
Good point. Modric, Ronald, Kroos, Isco, Benzema, Carvajal, Marcelo, Casemier etc. were all signed when they were 23-27.
So a grand total of 5 experienced/older players for City versus 6 for United. Wonderful.
We have 16 points in big games with 1 to go. That's only behind City. If Jose is getting it wrong in big games, what about the other managers?
The ideal scenario is a mix of youth and experience. When it doesn't apply is when one is simply a better player than the other which is the case with Sanchez being better than Martial.
Whether or not Martial can become better etc. Isn't really relevant as currently Sanchez is better and would offer more to us over a season when vying for major honors. While he's more than capable of influencing games, Martial wouldn't have been able to produce performances like Sanchez did against City and Spurs, it's not his playstyle. He doesn't get everywhere on the pitch and throw his body on the line like Sanchez does.
Whether or not Martial can become better etc. Isn't really relevant as currently Sanchez is better and would offer more to us over a season when vying for major honors. While he's more than capable of influencing games, Martial wouldn't have been able to produce performances like Sanchez did against City and Spurs, it's not his playstyle. He doesn't get everywhere on the pitch and throw his body on the line like Sanchez does.
Liverpool plays breathtaking football but are comfortably behind us and didn't manage to beat us this season. And Bayern, Real and Juve have much superior squads and have had the balance and the crux of the team unchanged. Jose barely gets a stable XI while they have stable squads. I'd rather win the league playing efficient football next season rather than not winning the league playing risky attacking football. I like defensive football and that's just me. United way is an overused term because it's basically Ferguson way. And even Fergie played drab football till he settled the squad for the league.
You answered it yourself in the first sentence: leave
If we played the best football in years, won the League and FA Cup but finished 5th on GD, that would be classed as a failure by a lot of people. Jose's first season was ONLY saved by the fact that we got qualification into the CL....despite winning the League Cup AND Europa League.
I'm sorry but it IS all about that air of entitlement!
We have some wierd fixation with young players in England. Both domestically and in the National team.
People bang on and on about blooding youngsters and talk about anyone over 27 as over the hill and short-term options which is ridiculuous
A common myth is that we won a title with kids - well, not really. Schmeichel, Irwin, Bruce, Pallister, Keane and Cantona where hardly spotty teenagers and Giggs had been in the first team for 3/4yrs in 95/96. Weve got to focus on quality and experience first, then we will have the luxury of turning to Youth
You need experience, young players and players in their peak. Check our 2006-07 and 2007-08 season. We had VDS, Scholes, Giggs, Neville who were 30 plus and then we had players like Rio who was 27 and at his peak. We had players like Vidic, Evra, Carrick who were below 25 and then 2 of the best youngsters Ronaldo and Rooney who were 21 and 20 at that time.
Next season we had same team and added Tevez who was 23, Nani - 20, Anderson - 18 and Hargreaves - 26.
That's a perfect mix of experience and young players.
Absolutely, people want to shove in as many players as possibly with potential and watch them stumble and fumble until they become world beaters.
I think it has to do with us winning the league 3 years on the bounce with Ronaldo and Rooney as linchpin's in the attack. They fantasize about giving our young players a few years in the team turning us into the best team in the world.
The problem with that is these same people will hound the manager out for 'not getting the best' out of the young players, ignoring that young players are inconsistent, even SAF was on thin ice back in 2006 so Mourinho would definitely get the sack if only won the league cup in 3 years trying to develop young players.
Yep agree in an ideal world that’s perfect bloody Nora what a squad that was looking back and the 4 signings that summer suited every muppet on this forum and really gave us the flexibility in team selection and ability to game manage or change personal of the bench. This is where City have won so many games this season with the strength of their bench (Aguero, Silva, Gundogan, Laporte even guys like Toure and Stones can’t get on the bench) so given time and money I trust Jose will take us back to that level as our squad quality is improving with Pogba Lukaku Matic Bailley and Sanchez added to our only world class talent that Jose inherited in DDG plus we have two talented youngsters in Martial and Rashford. The rest we could argue or debate but the reality is Jose is definitely improving the squad the problem has been the squad is horribly unbalanced. Imagine if Martial was as capable on the right and maybe Rashford if he was a midfielder or a full back then this would be great for the team. Yet somehow we have 3 of our best players all fighting for the same left wing berth. For this reason I could see Jose move Martial on (contract) as he may think keeping him could stifle Rashford and with money in he could improve other areas like both fb, cb, midfield and rw. It’s going to be an interesting summer ahead with World Cup and transfers.
Football Manager syndrome. Everybody is fixated on age that is on paper, it's like it doesn't matter what the player brings on the pitch.
It really is weird, very large number of people on this forum is on Mourinho's back because he is just second in Premiership in his second season, they want instant success but in the same time they want Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Gomes, Martial, Rashford on the pitch, presumably with 5-0 wins every week. Impossible standards.
Great post I put something similar about signing a left back a wee while ago. If we had say Evra at 31-32 then no doubt i’d go for Tierney and give him a one/two season transitions into the team as he is only a kid (like Shaw was) but with the state of left back position, I’d be more tempted to go for Sandro as we don’t have the luxury of bringing through a kid right now and experience (mixed with peak age 25-31 and quality) is a much safer bet and will help us much more than youth right now up that side imo.
But we have to get to the point where we look like there is succession planning where right now we can’t even get a settled 11 for various reasons and we all can see how important this is.
Bringing in new players (much as we muppets love to track flights) is strong medicine for a squad. It has an effect on those already here and on the team dynamic. It can change the training ground/dressing room atmosphere. It can foster new alliances, and also sow new discord (or make old discord worse). Personality is very important. Therefore the initial phase of major and high profile (high maintenance) additions needs to be followed by a more stable one with maybe some minor tweaks. That's where we are now, I think. A couple - at most - really clever additions in the summer (let's not get into detail here, we kind of know what they are), should see improved stability and a better knit in the overall team fabric.
But perhaps more important at this point is improving the players we have, improving the system(s) of play, being more flexible, solving more problems, developing structure. Getting people used to their various roles and jobs. Also maybe looking at the coaching staff and the general set-up around the team. We seem to have far less injuries now, for instance. I am cautiously optimistic that all this work is being done with nous and professionalism. Belt up for the big one. Jose will be here in 2020. But next year, especially in PL and CL: I think the stage is set for some decent long-term runs. FA Cup would be nice this year but its a one-off cup game v Chelski, and anything can happen.
But perhaps more important at this point is improving the players we have, improving the system(s) of play, being more flexible, solving more problems, developing structure. Getting people used to their various roles and jobs. Also maybe looking at the coaching staff and the general set-up around the team. We seem to have far less injuries now, for instance. I am cautiously optimistic that all this work is being done with nous and professionalism. Belt up for the big one. Jose will be here in 2020. But next year, especially in PL and CL: I think the stage is set for some decent long-term runs. FA Cup would be nice this year but its a one-off cup game v Chelski, and anything can happen.
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