Thing is that I'd rather have an attacking manager and play entertaining football and fail than fail playing defensive football. It's not like we've been competing for meaningful trophies under Mourinho playing shit on a stick football. 2nd/3rd/4th in the league... who gives a feck really, I'd rather finish 2nd of course but not at the expense of being entertained all season.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Hererra can't get a game because he was dropped for a better player; Fellaini is on his way out because he is a squad player and won't get higher wages.
Which points to what I said; we are evolving as a team; we are focusing less on getting sub-par players to perform at the right level, to getting above-par players to a consistent level.
I think we are finally getting over the rot that set in late into SAF's tenure and was made worse by Moyes doing virtually nothing when it came to transfers.
Mourinho has the highest win percentage of any United manager ever. 62.16%
The football will become more attractive next season. I’m convinced of it.
It was always a massive job to steady the ship after the previous 2 clowns. He’s done that and now we are feared again.
The football will become more attractive next season. I’m convinced of it.
It was always a massive job to steady the ship after the previous 2 clowns. He’s done that and now we are feared again.
I voted to give him some time but I get closer to the fence as time goes. On one hand I don't want the instability of constantly changing managers, and on the other I doubt he ever moves away from his negative approach in crucial matches and it's likely he eventually leaves us in a worse state personnel-wise by selling some of our mercurial talents for failing to manage them (as he himself has admitted it as a weakness). For now I remain hopeful that he ends the season well (FA cup trophy and 2nd place in league) and manages to keep our good players convinced of his vision for United. A convincing win against City would go a long way.
I remember many here defended his rant after Sevilla game about inheritance and heitage.
Liverpool last time they played in CL, they were out in group stages under Rodgers and that's probably their only CL appearance since Rafa was sacked.
City reached semi finals of CL, few Round of 16 knock outs. They are about to win 3rd league title in 5-6 years and Liverpool won about 30 years ago.
So how much football inheritance and heritage is not stopping coaches like Klopp who is on the verge of knocking out City?
I liked Jose and how he used to rile up other fans but lot of our fans lap up everything he says. He is just full of excuses and hardly takes any responsibility.
Hopefully this changes and we improve further in both results and quality of our play.
Liverpool last time they played in CL, they were out in group stages under Rodgers and that's probably their only CL appearance since Rafa was sacked.
City reached semi finals of CL, few Round of 16 knock outs. They are about to win 3rd league title in 5-6 years and Liverpool won about 30 years ago.
So how much football inheritance and heritage is not stopping coaches like Klopp who is on the verge of knocking out City?
I liked Jose and how he used to rile up other fans but lot of our fans lap up everything he says. He is just full of excuses and hardly takes any responsibility.
Hopefully this changes and we improve further in both results and quality of our play.
Don't agree with any of your examples,Herrera has gone backwards since LVG, Young remains his solid but limited self and lets not talk about Fellaini.
I'd rather being 2nd with ugly football than 5th with swashbuckling football.
We should stop taking things for granted. We of all clubs should know better that top 4th aren't guaranteed even for a team of our stature. Past fergie we only finish top 4 twice.
Take nothing for granted. Our priority is winning the league first, to show the world that we can win post fergie. Then you talk about beautiful football.
Swashbuckling football without result is shit football.
Yep, take a look at what that serial bottler Sarri is saying now. Something about Scudetto not being priority and getting to 87 points is. The feck does 87 points matter, leagues have been won with less points before. And some wanted Sarri as United manager.
And as a famous poet once said, " shit football without results is even shitter"
I wonder if the next manager plays wonderful football and finished 4th. What would your comment be.
I’d rather play wonderful football and finish 4th than play shit football and finish 2nd.
So arsenal it is?
But a great *********** once said, "Give me $1bn to invest in
I dont understand your logic here. We aren't winning any trophies. Liverpool isn't winning any trophies (assuming they lose in the CL semis), neither are spurs (one will win the FA cup, but it hardly matters too much for this convo). All 3 effectively didn't reach their goal. Would you rather finish 2nd (and still not win anything) through shit football, or finish 3rd or 4th playing exciting football? Since finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th doesnt matter at all. You're saying these comments as if the only way to achieve success is through shit football, when in reality, we haven't achieved success despite playing shit football. So we dont have success, not do we have entertainment.
It's not a case of us winning the title so you can excuse a pragmatic style... we're still 2nd best and got nowhere further then teams who played a braver style of play.
Think its absolutely insane the lengths people go to to defend Mourinho and have almost convinced themselves that the only way to win anything is to always be pragmatic, and a consequence of successful teams is shit football. When every single team in the CL that will be in the last 4, or every single title winner does so through playing dominating and attacking football. Juve is built off a solid foundation but still dominate most games.
I guess if it was his second season after spending 350 million and smashing our pay scale then I'd have concerns.
No. Being 2nd doesnt mean it's the end game. But being 2nd means we're there or thereabout. And hoping next season will be better than this season.
The lenght people go to undermine jose result is mind boggling as well.
This is my point when i say peoplee just dont like josr mourinho and everything is shit under him. Even when we're winning 2 cups and possibly finished runner up. It's still shit to you lot.
And not to mention those teams are operating on far less resources than us.
This whole debate is actually being seen from the wrong angle. The fact that we're talking about Spurs, Liverpool and comparing them to us is already faulty to begin with. For the resources they have they are doing wonders.
We should have been compared to City, that's the team we're closer to when it comes to spending power. And guess what, City playing good attacking football with enormous resources are miles away from us while Liverpool and Spurs on far less resources than us, playing attacking football are in our ballpark or even outperforming us this season(Liverpool are a foot in the CL semis).
Out of all those teams mentioned above we're the ones underperforming when everything is taken into account.
We can't just berate Klopp and Posh for not winning anything while they're operating on a far lower financial clout than us who should be easily competing with City. All these deflection tactics to excuse Mourinho of his failings get more ridiculous by the day.
Because he won those two cups, I have glossed over some of his faults. I am ok with the style of play as we are pretty decent to watch on our best days despite what his detractors say -- just need to ensure we have more of those days. But other aspects of management and his CL record need to improve, as the credit he earned by winning those cups has been pretty much exhausted after the Sevilla disasterclass.
Not that I would want him sacked as I do like him, but if he fails similarly next season then he shouldn't be allowed to deflect blame elsewhere.
Can we really say we're getting results? 16 points of the pace of the league leaders, knocked out in the last 16 of CL, maybe a shot of the FA Cup. 2nd place isn't a trophy either so we can't exactly say "we play shit but we've got the results to show for it".
Idk why it has to be this world of extremes.
1. Jose can be progressing United from where he inherited it.
2. He can not be doing well enough.
I feel strongly about 1 and have mixed feelings about 2, but if we're not challenging for the title next season, regardless of how good anybody else is, then I feel it'd be an appropriate time to move on from Jose. The basis for doing it now is something I really don't get myself.
1. Jose can be progressing United from where he inherited it.
2. He can not be doing well enough.
I feel strongly about 1 and have mixed feelings about 2, but if we're not challenging for the title next season, regardless of how good anybody else is, then I feel it'd be an appropriate time to move on from Jose. The basis for doing it now is something I really don't get myself.
Yep, take a look at what that serial bottler Sarri is saying now. Something about Scudetto not being priority and getting to 87 points is. The feck does 87 points matter, leagues have been won with less points before. And some wanted Sarri as United manager.
Sarri really said that? They are only a few points behind in the league, why would a manager ever say something like that?
Because Sarri can't handle the pressure and is small-time. Man would have a mental breakdown if he managed clubs like us or Chelsea in this league.
What blame he deflected? We're 2nd not relegated. There's nothing wrong in losing to the best epl team (pts wise) in history. Really not a shame and any discredit to jose. If saf lost to this year city nobody would bat an eyelid.
And I'm not saying I'm happy with the way we played, but jose aint either. We're getting there and to get there we need to smooth alot of things from mindset, mentality, personnel, culture etc.
Jose out brigade seems to think that any new modern manager can simply walk in, tweak a few tactical instructions and we'd be a free flowing football team. I wish it's that easy.
There are a good reason why moyes, lvg, and even mourinho can't get this team winning the league and to think that it's just a matter of changing formations is naive. Even pep and klopp took a while to get to where they are. But with jose it's always he's not good enough, he's outdated, he's bound to fail, hell the united supporters are so negative they're so sure we wont finish top 4 someone ask me to bet my account for it, all that while we're sitting 2nd.
If 2 cups and 2nd is not a result than unless we win the league next season the next manager should also get sacked.
We're 2nd, if that's a bad result than klopp and pep would have got the boot last year.
Some patience, we do not sacked a manager for losing against the best ever team (again point wise) in the history of epl.
"We're getting results". Which ones?
We were out of the title race before December, 16 points off challenging and knocked out of the CL in embarrassing fashion.
We aren't getting any of the results we want. Scrapping around for 3rd rate competitions where the big boys aren't in it nor interested is meaningless. It should all come down to how we fair when put up against decent competition and that's where we keep shitting our pants under Mourinho, especially when it matters.
Suddenly being second 16 points off top after spending a fortune is being seen as an achievement when in truth being top 4 should be the absolute bare minimum and expected given the spending.
People just love deflecting from the real issues to excuse some of the embarrassments we're serving this season. It's all about phrasing and angle.
People would say something along the lines of us being second as something impressive by Mourinho when the truth is that we're 16 POINTS off the leaders, playing some awful football after spending a fortune. That is a picture of averageness if not mediocrity. Nothing impressive like some want to paint. Got to call a spade, a spade.
Bottom line is, with the money spent, the backing Mourinho has had and 2 seasons in his tenure, him being 16 points off challenging is a mediocre job. Some love painting this picture that we're 2nd therefore we're doing great, but we're not. We're not 2nd few points off the top, we are 16 points off, let's not disregard that.
We were out of the title race before December, 16 points off challenging and knocked out of the CL in embarrassing fashion.
We aren't getting any of the results we want. Scrapping around for 3rd rate competitions where the big boys aren't in it nor interested is meaningless. It should all come down to how we fair when put up against decent competition and that's where we keep shitting our pants under Mourinho, especially when it matters.
Suddenly being second 16 points off top after spending a fortune is being seen as an achievement when in truth being top 4 should be the absolute bare minimum and expected given the spending.
People just love deflecting from the real issues to excuse some of the embarrassments we're serving this season. It's all about phrasing and angle.
People would say something along the lines of us being second as something impressive by Mourinho when the truth is that we're 16 POINTS off the leaders, playing some awful football after spending a fortune. That is a picture of averageness if not mediocrity. Nothing impressive like some want to paint. Got to call a spade, a spade.
Bottom line is, with the money spent, the backing Mourinho has had and 2 seasons in his tenure, him being 16 points off challenging is a mediocre job. Some love painting this picture that we're 2nd therefore we're doing great, but we're not. We're not 2nd few points off the top, we are 16 points off, let's not disregard that.
FYI, I love Jose. I am most definitely not Jose out. But I do recognize he's made mistakes. Playing style isn't one of them though, I think he can get us playing well soon enough.
You dont just blindly hope things will be better. What will be better? If we put in good performances consistently and dont get results to match, then you have a right to expect change. We haven't been unlucky in any way this season though. If anything, we have been more clinical then our overall performances should suggest. You look at Liverpool or Spurs - they start off inconsistently, but tend to finish very strongly. They have games where their attack just looks off and disjointed now and then, but often blow teams out of the water. There's a clear sign of something they build towards and gradual improvement. What are we doing? We were at our best in the first few weeks of the season, and since then, have been inconsistent, showing no signs of improvement, no signs of a system in place to build towards, not even having loads of unlucky performances like last season where we drew loads of games through shit finishing. This season has been just meh. We signed a world class player and dont look any better for it.
Being 2nd, when there's like 2 points separating you from 3rd and 4th, means virtually nothing. So I'd rather be where Liverpool is this season and be playing entertaining football most weeks. Or spurs. They play good football, and have shown a clear identity and something to build towards and something to point to to give them hope of further improvement and bridging that gap. We haven't done that.
Hopefully. The difference between last year klopp/pep and this year is so big it shows how much an extra year can bring.
2 cups last season* in a year we finished 6th. If he didn't win them he probably would've been sacked. It's not all about results. You can get away with iffy results if you play good football and have clear signs of improvement and hope to get the results in the future. Mourinhos thing though is he gets results but he never had the style. Unfortunately for us, he hasnt been getting results either. So you cant excuse bad football if you aren't being successful. All there is to it.
And again, you cant just look at City improving one season or liverpool doing it and saying we can do the same. They showed signs last year all the time. They played great attacking football and would get fecked over by stupid mistakes. Its about minimizing that. When the problem is not being able to play great football though, well that's a much bigger fix. Their strength is in the system they use, while Mourinhos is reliant on personnel. And even then, as we see with Sanchez, signing world class players everywhere doesnt mean you'll be better then a well oiled system.
We have a direction, we have a style of play, we have a plan, you just doesn't like them.
Result for you is winning the league? Anything other than that is not result?
Good. I'll quote you on that and i expect you to complain the same when our next manager cant win the league on year 1.
What's the difference between 2nd and 4th really?
I would rather get excited about a one off match like Liverpool played yesterday, than finish second the way we are playing or even winning the EL getting outplayed by Anderlecht and Celta Vigo at home. I , as a fan don't get any prize money from United winning trophies, it makes me happy, but it's not literally everything for a football fan. It should be everything for the players and the manager perhaps, but not for the supporters.
Living in the moment bro.
And I'm not blaming Mourinho here, he's a great coach, not the special one anymore, but certainly a great coach, and our issues run deeper than him, and bringing some flavour of the month manager won't fix it.
Hope we'll be fine.
Lol I've said before. Getting good results is of course winning trophies. But iffy results can be excused if you play exciting football (for a time). When you have neither, then the manager isn't working. It's how I always viewed it.
And you say we have a style of play and direction and just me not liking them? I'd disagree with that. We signed pogba for 90m and have no fecking clue on how to use him. Same with Sanchez. We change the way we play almost every game. Any tough opponent comes, and we essentially go defensive, even if we're at home and a better side anyway. That's not a style. That's the manager not knowing how to get the team to play good football.
Well, the upshot of winning trophies is that we have more games per season, and we get to feel the feverish excitement of QFs, SFs and final nights. So yes, winning trophies is a big thing for fans.
Ok. Maybe jose is shit. Let's just boo him out of old trafford. If it makes you happy
He’s right though.
I've had enough of lvg and moyes where i dreaded matchday because we're more likely to be humiliated. At least with jose we can be sure we wont be losing.
You lot take not losing for granted. Back in moyes days we expect bayern to score double digits against us.
Be careful what you guys wish for. The next manager can also be our poisoned chalice.
This thread needs some white texts.
There is a very obvious problem heading our way with Jose that's going to come to head next season I think.
Basically the deal is that we put up with Jose and lots of other nonsense that comes with him and in return the club improve and win things. So far the deal has been working out okay. We've won the Europa League, League cup and we're in an FA cup semi-final. Last season we finished 6th and this season we look on course for 2nd. Now, I know those two trophies don't necessarily get the Juices flowing..but we've squad he inherited (finished 5th and got smacked silly by a poor Liverpool team in the Europa league R16) it's not at all bad.
However, where does he go from here? In the Prem we have to win anything else is stagnation/regression. In the CL he has has has to do better when he does leave whenever that is i'm no doubt we'll be talking about the Sevilla tie an absolute disgrace of a performance. We can ignore the League cup and FA cup.
So, if he doesn't win the Prem and show some improvement in the CL the deal breaks down and there is no way United fans will keep putting up with the style of play and we'll have a new manager for the 2019/2020 season.
Basically the deal is that we put up with Jose and lots of other nonsense that comes with him and in return the club improve and win things. So far the deal has been working out okay. We've won the Europa League, League cup and we're in an FA cup semi-final. Last season we finished 6th and this season we look on course for 2nd. Now, I know those two trophies don't necessarily get the Juices flowing..but we've squad he inherited (finished 5th and got smacked silly by a poor Liverpool team in the Europa league R16) it's not at all bad.
However, where does he go from here? In the Prem we have to win anything else is stagnation/regression. In the CL he has has has to do better when he does leave whenever that is i'm no doubt we'll be talking about the Sevilla tie an absolute disgrace of a performance. We can ignore the League cup and FA cup.
So, if he doesn't win the Prem and show some improvement in the CL the deal breaks down and there is no way United fans will keep putting up with the style of play and we'll have a new manager for the 2019/2020 season.
What I want from mourinho is put an end to bizzare team selections, one thing with our rival managers their best players and attacking players all know their role in the team, something which is questionable with shaw, pogba, martial, rashford, mata, Sanchez. But instead of dropping some of his best attacking players and playing inferior players which is not helping us one bit, and some of these players should not be anywhere near the club and get more out of pogba, martial, rashford, Sanchez, and many more. He’s 2 Years into the job and I still see certain players still playing that have been here one to many years at the club. His job is in the summer is replacing Valencia, young, better midfielders than fellaini, matic, Carrick and Herrera, and 2 midfielders to go with pogba and can challenge pogba, the CB position go play alongside Bailly is still up for debate. So in all he’s still 5 players short, 2 CM players, 2 fullbacks and a CB, if these positions are not ruthlessly looked at we going to come up short, and it’s been our weird team selections, the defence, the midfield and overall backbone and lack of speed in our game which has been the biggest problem. But if Jose wants to win the big trophy’s goof forwatd the team needs to show fear in how he approaches games, and not pick players not good enough to go into a challenge like this
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