Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[CM]

But we aren't tumescent. We have scored what, 3rd most in the league? We have 18 sides behind us so our consistency is clearly better than theirs.

Seriously baffled at this spoilt attitude that we are "tumescent" to watch. I bet if we had a good game and progressed against Sevilla not a single poster would say we are tumescent. We'd have beaten Chelsea Liverpool sevilla Swansea Palace etc and people would be chanting Mourinho's name. But one off game against Sevilla and its a complete 180 degree turn. Forget all the other games, the results and the style of play and just focus on one game to beat mourinho with a stick with (not saying this is what you're doing in this case but a lot of posters do) .

When was the last time you remember us producing genuinely exciting football? We usually do just enough to get by against the smaller teams and approach most big games by being unnecessarily defensive.

Last season we were awful in just about every big game except Chelsea at Old Trafford and consistently relied on grinding results against much inferior Europa League opposition. We have improved this season but we've still had more than our fair share of boring games, defensive football or getting completely outplayed, including both Sevilla games, which was the culmination of all of that.

We have scored 4th most in the league. Admittedly, the difference between us and Spurs is negligible but Liverpool have scored 25% more goals than us this season and that tells its own story. Mourinho's selling point these days is the guarantee of trophies, the football itself has very few redeeming qualities and entertainment certainly isn't one of them.

 

[SwSw]

I would not say that Utd attacked Liverpool with the same force and numbers that they did to City last night. Mou identified a weakness, Lovren in the air against Lukaku and the right full back. Targeted them, but it is not as if Utd were ever really forcing the game, sat deep, allowed Liverpool the ball, hit it long when they did have it, and waited for a mistake, always stopping the opportunity for Liverpool to get on the counter or win the ball high.

Rare to see Utd under Mou go and and attack the game as Liverpool did in the first half last night, especially against good teams. Anyway, Mou is divisive, there is always going to be this conflict among the fans over how he plays, even if Utd were top of the league there would be issues. His style is not for everyone.

What?

Liverpool attacked City in a manner they know, i.e., pressing. We attacked Liverpool in a manner we felt was best, i.e., Lukaku has the upper hand against Lovren and exposing TAA. So, Liverpool's way is much more forceful because it was all action and much "prettier"?

Liverpool last night took a book out of Mourinho's big game management.

 

[JPRouve]

Well, winning (which we're pretty decent at) is far more important and provides more excitement than playing exciting football. Obviously, we need to win more and we've probably had a little too many boring games this season. But the lack of entertainment really hasn't been a huge issue, especially in recent weeks. We've had some very fun games to watch - Watford, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Palace, Newcastle, West Ham, Swansea, CSKA, Basel, Tottenham etc. I'd say for every two entertaining games, we've had one overly boring game to accompany it. Across, the 45 games we've played, we've probably had 10-15 shit ones.

Who talked about exciting football? Everyone has its own opinion about what is entertaining and what isn't, neither you nor I can go around and tell people whether they have a right to complain or not if things aren't in their eyes entertaining. Personally, I'm not convinced by Mourinho's approach, I don't think that it's going to take us to the next level. I don't have a huge problem when it comes to entertainment and for me it's definitely not a reason to sack Mourinho.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I would not say that Utd attacked Liverpool with the same force and numbers that they did to City last night. Mou identified a weakness, Lovren in the air against Lukaku and the right full back. Targeted them, but it is not as if Utd were ever really forcing the game, sat deep, allowed Liverpool the ball, hit it long when they did have it, and waited for a mistake, always stopping the opportunity for Liverpool to get on the counter or win the ball high.

Rare to see Utd under Mou go and and attack the game as Liverpool did in the first half last night, especially against good teams. Anyway, Mou is divisive, there is always going to be this conflict among the fans over how he plays, even if Utd were top of the league there would be issues. His style is not for everyone.

We attacked them with very different tactics but we definitely attacked them. Weirdly, I do think City wanted to do something similar which is why Pep made such a big deal about applauding their keeper when he kicked it long. It's such an obvious way to counter Liverpool's high press. Keep kicking the ball over their heads. The problem was they had nobody with Lukaku's presence to cause Liverpool's defenders many problems with long passes out from the back.

The second half of both games were much more similar. Sitting deep and keeping compact, allowing the opposition to come at you in waves but without really conceding any obvious chances. Neither Klarius nor De Gea made a save of note despite their defence being under the cosh for 45 minutes.

 

[cyberman]

@edgar allan
Id argue Klopp didn't have to sell to buy since they wanted to buy VVD in the summer before they sold Coutinho.
Maybe next summer is financed from the sale (Kieta and the Napoli midfielder) but I don't think this is a factor in the numbers at all.

 

[JPRouve]

His initial point, the one you quoted, about Utd-Liverpool and Liverpool-City being identical is 100% spot on. Yesterday, the Scousers had a terrific first half but they also had the rub of the green since they had 4 shots on target (5 in total) and scored 3 goals. Similarly, we had 3 shots on target, we scored two goals and we missed a glorious opportunity to make it three. In the second half, all Liverpool did was sit back and soak up the pressure. The difference between us and them was that they miraculously held their own at the back while a brainfart from Bailly got Liverpool back in the game at OT. Yet, according to some, only our performance in the second half was "a disgrace" and only our tactics were reeking "cowardice". Plus, in his opening sentence, he admitted that there are still a lot of things to be desired from our style of play. All in all, he didn't move any goalposts.

The initial point I'm talking about is the one I bolded.

 

[prath92]

When was the last time you remember us producing genuinely exciting football? We usually do just enough to get by against the smaller teams and approach most big games by being unnecessarily defensive.

Eh what? We have played good football most of the season vs the smaller teams.

Last season we were awful in just about every big game except Chelsea at Old Trafford and consistently relied on grinding results against much inferior Europa League opposition.

Wrong. We were the better team in all of the home ties including the city game. Zlatan missed 3 sitters in last 5 minutes if the first half alone in that game. We were unlucky to lose that game and also draw the arsenal and pool home games.

 

[VP89]

When was the last time you remember us producing genuinely exciting football? We usually do just enough to get by against the smaller teams and approach most big games by being unnecessarily defensive.

Last season we were awful in just about every big game except Chelsea at Old Trafford and consistently relied on grinding results against much inferior Europa League opposition. We have improved this season but we've still had more than our fair share of boring games, defensive football or getting completely outplayed, including both Sevilla games, which was the culmination of all of that.

We have scored 4th most in the league. Admittedly, the difference between us and Spurs is negligible but Liverpool have scored 25% more goals than us this season and that tells its own story. Mourinho's selling point these days is the guarantee of trophies, the football itself has very few redeeming qualities and entertainment certainly isn't one of them.

Thought we did well against Swansea, Brighton, Liverpool and Chelsea by way of recent fixtures. We were outplayed against Sevilla, Newcastle and Spurs. These are the only 3 games I cannot excuse our manager for but I'm not going to let those 3 games generalise how far we have come.

 

[breakout67]

We played genuinely exciting football in the first half against Swansea. Before that the first half against Liverpool, second half against Chelsea, First half against Stoke, first half against Everton, first half against Arsenal.

We have had plenty periods of exciting football, but due to the style of the manager he will try to close out a game, instead of going for more goals.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Who talked about exciting football? Everyone has its own opinion about what is entertaining and what isn't, neither you nor I can go around and tell people whether they have a right to complain or not if things aren't in their eyes entertaining. Personally, I'm not convinced by Mourinho's approach, I don't think that it's going to take us to the next level. I don't have a huge problem when it comes to entertainment and for me it's definitely not a reason to sack Mourinho.

That's one of two reasons you'd watch football, no? Either for results (and) or attacking football. Like I said, our results aren't that bad so if you're (the general fan) not pleased with our results, your issue with entertainment must lie in the style of our football.

As for your last point, I guess we'll see. For me, stabilising our club was also of great importance. Obviously, I'd love for us to win the PL next season, however, I wouldn't be too displeased with him challenging and, if he does fail to win trophies, calling it quits and leaving a very good foundation for another manager capable of taking us to the next level.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We played genuinely exciting football in the first half against Swansea. Before that the first half against Liverpool, second half against Chelsea, First half against Stoke, first half against Everton, first half against Arsenal.

We have had plenty periods of exciting football, but due to the style of the manager he will try to close out a game 2-0, instead of going for more goals.

Hmmm... Most of those crap halfs of football in the list of games you just mentioned didn't happen with us sitting on a two nil lead. So those lame performances had nothing to do with protecting a lead.

 

[Lentwood]

You know what I don’t find very exciting? Dropping points to crap sides!

Seems to happen far, far less under Jose than it did under LvG and Moyseh!

 

[Bobski]

We attacked them with very different tactics but we definitely attacked them. Weirdly, I do think City wanted to do something similar which is why Pep made such a big deal about applauding their keeper when he kicked it long. It's such an obvious way to counter Liverpool's high press. Keep kicking the ball over their heads. The problem was they had nobody with Lukaku's presence to cause Liverpool's defenders many problems with long passes out from the back.

The second half of both games were much more similar. Sitting deep and keeping compact, allowing the opposition to come at you in waves but without really conceding any obvious chances. Neither Klarius nor De Gea made a save of note despite their defence being under the cosh for 45 minutes.

Also how LVG used Fellaini in that big win at Juanfield. Beat their press with the long ball out, then play from there. Tactically Mou was spot on in that game, never allowed Liverpool to use their pressing game, understood that they do not have the creativity in midfield to break down an organized defense.

Does not mean it was good to watch, or that more notably that we do not play that way in nearly every big game, surrender the ball, surrender the initiative and wait for mistakes.

Liverpool do tend to tire after the initial push which takes them down to the level you would expect given the players they have. FFS, Ox, Lovren, Milner, Henderson, Alexander-Arnold, Solanke and Moreno look as if they are about to get to a CL SF, while Utd fans are buying the excuse that we can not attack until we replace Valencia, Young and Smalling.

 

[breakout67]

Hmmm... Most of those crap halfs of football in the list of games you just mentioned didn't happen with us sitting on a two nil lead. So those lame performances had nothing to do with protecting a lead.

Yes I edited my post. Sometimes we protect the lead like against Swansea, other times we come out like it's a training session in the 1st half, concede a goal and then get our arses in gear (Chelsea). Sometimes we start the game like a house on fire and finish the game in the 1st half (Arsenal and Liverpool).

 

[CM]

Eh what? We have played good football most of the season vs the smaller teams.



Wrong. We were the better team in all of the home ties including the city game. Zlatan missed 3 sitters in last 5 minutes if the first half alone in that game. We were unlucky to lose that game and also draw the arsenal and pool home games.

We started the season winning 4-0 and that was fine but since then we've been flat in many of those games. The Brighton FA Cup game was one of the dullest United games in recent memory, despite the result being fairly comfortable.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the second point. I'll give you the Arsenal one but City completely outplayed us in the first half at Old Trafford, it was only Herrera's second half performance that gave us a bit of a foothold in that game and we would've been fortunate to get a result.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Also how LVG used Fellaini in that big win at Juanfield. Beat their press with the long ball out, then play from there. Tactically Mou was spot on in that game, never allowed Liverpool to use their pressing game, understood that they do not have the creativity in midfield to break down an organized defense.

Does not mean it was good to watch, or that more notably that we do not play that way in nearly every big game, surrender the ball, surrender the initiative and wait for mistakes.

Liverpool do tend to tire after the initial push which takes them down to the level you would expect given the players they have. FFS, Ox, Lovren, Milner, Henderson, Alexander-Arnold, Solanke and Moreno look as if they are about to get to a CL SF, while Utd fans are buying the excuse that we can not attack until we replace Valencia, Young and Smalling.

Yeah, in a way that’s the price a Mourinho team pays for being so reactive. Always trys to neutralise the opposition rather than impose our own game on them. It’s crap to watch in big games (although it can get good results) but also means that we don’t have much of a coherent strategy or identity in the smaller games. We’re just relying on individual players to be better than their opposite number. There’s no continuity from game to game.

 

[JPRouve]

That's one of two reasons you'd watch football, no? Either for results (and) or attacking football. Like I said, our results aren't that bad so if you're (the general fan) not pleased with our results, your issue with entertainment must lie in the style of our football.

As for your last point, I guess we'll see. For me, stabilising our club was also of great importance. Obviously, I'd love for us to win the PL next season, however, I wouldn't be too displeased with him challenging and, if he does fail to win trophies, calling it quits and leaving a very good foundation for another manager capable of taking us to the next level.

No, I like the defensive side of the game too, I like tactical battles. I mentioned it in the past but I loved the Atletico vs Chelsea tie because it was a tactical game both teams tried to tactically dominate each others, I love the fact that Pep tried to man mark Barcelona's front three, it was reckless and not well prepared but the idea was very seducing and intriguing.
In general, I love football and all its aspects, winning and attacking are only a part of it, good tactic, good defending, good attitude, good technique are the other elements that I ideally want to see.

 

[Bobski]

Yeah, in a way that’s the price a Mourinho team pays for being so reactive. Always trys to neutralise the opposition rather than impose our own game on them. It’s crap to watch in big games (although it can get good results) but also means that we don’t have much of a coherent identity in the smaller games. We’re just relying on individual players to be better than their opposite number.

Yes, Utd are so meh because you rarely feel as if they are more than the sum of their parts. Solid and then wait for individual moments of quality, or mistakes.

One of the game that really pissed me off last season was Boro away. Played poorly, got into a 2-0 lead in a typical Mou style, then removed the 2 wide players for defenders, played 6 at the back. This against a team who had not scored in something like 8 games, were soon to be relegated and who had barely had an attack in the game. Instead of looking to keep the ball, or push on and kill it, he chose the most negative approach. Ended up 3-1 with their keeper making a howler to give Valencia a goal but we almost chucked that game away because of his tactics.

 

[AR87]

There’s no continuity from game to game.

I actually think the reason for this is because Mourinho doesn't have a "strongest XI" he fully trusts if and when everybody is healthy. I don't remember his Chelsea, Inter or Madrid sides having this much uncertainty over who would start match-to-match even if the tactics were reactive and specific to opponents.

I do hope that the trio we saw behind Lukaku against Swansea is picked more frequently together as I feel they connect the best and still have good defensive workrate. That's harsh on Rashford and Martial, but at the least I'd like to see us keep things the same against City.

 

[Santoryo]

Liverpool attack in the first half get a lead, defend with 10 men, nullify city, klopp is a great attacking coach and what not.
Mourinho does the same to Liverpool and united are defensive, with some cnuts you cant just win.

We're a defensive team that look to nullify other teams(decent teams) playing rather than playing our own game. It is what it is.

No one is making things up nor unfairly labelling us as such. We play that way, you know it as well as everyone else.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I actually think the reason for this is because Mourinho doesn't have a "strongest XI" he fully trusts if and when everybody is healthy. I don't remember his Chelsea, Inter or Madrid sides having this much uncertainty over who would start match-to-match even if the tactics were reactive and specific to opponents.

I do hope that the trio we saw behind Lukaku against Swansea is picked more frequently together as I feel they connect the best and still have good defensive workrate. That's harsh on Rashford and Martial, but at the least I'd like to see us keep things the same against City.

Yeah, I’d like to see the same front four at the weekend too but I don’t think uncertainty about our best XI is much of an excuse for our lack of a consistent approach, game to game. Not many people would pick the XI liverpool started with last night as the strongest available but their approach was exactly the same as it is in any other game. And that’s a squad with far less strength in depth than ours.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We're a defensive team that look to nullify other teams(decent teams) playing rather than playing our own game. It is what it is.

No one is making things up nor unfairly labelling us as such. We play that way, you know it as well as everyone else.

So how have we scored as many league goals as a free scoring Spurs team?

 

[cyberman]

We have been consistent though?
It may not be to peoples liking but the consistency in our approach is there.

 

[AR87]

but I don’t think uncertainty about our best XI is much of an excuse for our lack of a consistent approach, game to game.

No, I agree our approach will always vary under Mourinho. However, I think that it's easier to adapt to changing tactics when you have built up an understanding with the same players consistently. For me, where we fail the most game-to-game is understanding between the supporting attackers and Pogba behind Lukaku. I feel that would be less of an issue if we simply stuck with a group, but I don't know if Mourinho trusts Lingard and especially Mata enough to do so.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The initial point I'm talking about is the one I bolded.

In which he called out some people for having double standards when it comes to rating performances in big games. And he's not entirely wrong, you know. There were notable posters who completely bashed our second half vs Liverpool with long posts but they didn't see anything wrong with 'pool's second half yesterday. And then he went on to give his example.

I won't go as far as calling other people hypocrites but i agree with what Pogue wrote last night: That it is utterly pathetic when you use your biggest rival's best day of the season in order to criticize your own manager. And i have the suspicion that we wouldn't see this even if Beelzebub was managing United. It is about the style of play but it also has a lot to do with Mourinho as a person. We had criticisms under LvG and Moyes too but this arse licking of other managers and teams is getting nauseating.

* My post isn't meant as a dig to your views. What triggered me is that you accused someone of moving the goalposts when he was referring to two specific matches and it was you who generalized his point. By the way, i'm not impressed by Jose's work at United thus far either.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

No, I like the defensive side of the game too, I like tactical battles. I mentioned it in the past but I loved the Atletico vs Chelsea tie because it was a tactical game both teams tried to tactically dominate each others, I love the fact that Pep tried to man mark Barcelona's front three, it was reckless and not well prepared but the idea was very seducing and intriguing.
In general, I love football and all its aspects, winning and attacking are only a part of it, good tactic, good defending, good attitude, good technique are the other elements that I ideally want to see.

Dont disagree with anything you say. The inner battles in sports are very intriguing. One of the reasons I love cricket, a sport many brand as boring, is because of these battles.

I think what you describe is how Mourinho would ideally like us to develop into. I thought our game against Liverpool displayed a lot of positives. Heck, you could argue Pep tried to implement the same ideas to stop Salah but, in fairness, he and City werent good enough stepping out of their comfort zones.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We have been consistent though?
It may not be to peoples liking but the consistency in our approach is there.

Not really. For example, the route one football against Liverpool was completely different to our approach against Swansea last weekend.

 

[Greck]

Yes, Utd are so meh because you rarely feel as if they are more than the sum of their parts. Solid and then wait for individual moments of quality, or mistakes.

One of the game that really pissed me off last season was Boro away. Played poorly, got into a 2-0 lead in a typical Mou style, then removed the 2 wide players for defenders, played 6 at the back. This against a team who had not scored in something like 8 games, were soon to be relegated and who had barely had an attack in the game. Instead of looking to keep the ball, or push on and kill it, he chose the most negative approach. Ended up 3-1 with their keeper making a howler to give Valencia a goal but we almost chucked that game away because of his tactics.

I think you mean Southampton, I think (edit on 2nd thought Southampton was a different one where Rash came on as a LB)

For me the worst example is still parking the bus against 10 man Leicester and drawing an easy win

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In which he called out some people for having double standards when it comes to rating performances in big games. And he's not entirely wrong, you know. There were notable posters who completely bashed our second half vs Liverpool with long posts but they didn't see anything wrong with 'pool's second half yesterday. And then he went on to give his example.

I won't go as far as calling other people hypocrites but i agree with what Pogue wrote last night: That it is utterly pathetic when you use your biggest rival's best day of the season in order to criticize your own manager. And i have the suspicion that we wouldn't see this even if Beelzebub was managing United. It is about the style of play but it also has a lot to do with Mourinho as a person. We had criticisms under LvG and Moyes too but this arse licking of other managers and teams is getting nauseating.

* My post isn't meant as a dig to your views. What triggered me is that you accused someone of moving the goalposts when he was referring to two specific matches and it was you who generalized his point. By the way, i'm not impressed by Jose's work at United thus far either.

Unfortunately I’ve spent the last hour or so hoisting myself by my own petard!

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Not really. For example, the route one football against Liverpool was completely different to our approach against Swansea last weekend.

Thats typical Mourinho. A gameplan for different opponents. Doesnt really indicate a lack of consistency.

What I would add is that we've not been that good at consistently implementing his ideas and tactics. Swansea and Brighton being two good examples. Same plan, same result, utterly differing performances.

 

[JPRouve]

In which he called out some people for having double standards when it comes to rating performances in big games. And he's not entirely wrong, you know. There were notable posters who completely bashed our second half vs Liverpool with long posts but they didn't see anything wrong with 'pool's second half yesterday. And then he went on to give his example.

I won't go as far as calling other people hypocrites but i agree with what Pogue wrote last night: That it is utterly pathetic when you use your biggest rival's best day of the season in order to criticize your own manager. And i have the suspicion that we wouldn't see this even if Beelzebub was managing United. It is about the style of play but it also has a lot to do with Mourinho as a person. We had criticisms under LvG and Moyes too but this arse licking of other managers and teams is getting nauseating.

* My post isn't meant as a dig to your views. What triggered me is that you accused someone of moving the goalposts when he was referring to two specific matches and it was you who generalized his point. By the way, i'm not impressed by Jose's work at United thus far either.

He generalized his point when he talked about people's boring lives and the 2 hours of entertainment, that's as general as something can be. That sentence is weird because who in his right mind will spend two hours doing something that he feels will be boring? My problem is with ridiculing the idea that some people might not want to be bored outside of work. Then he moved the goalpost by basically saying that it's less boring than under LVG which wasn't his point nor mine.

 

[2cents]

There were issues with our football under Ferguson that began the season we sold Ronaldo

I actually think we played some great stuff throughout 09/10, certainly more entertaining than the season before. Then 10/11 we were a bit all over the place but again played some seriously good football to win the league and make the CL final. And then we started 11/12 in proper scintillating form, but had the wind completely knocked out of us by the 6-1, and I'm not sure our football ever really recovered under Fergie.

 

[Adisa]

I have only one message for Mourinho.
Get this team to be more aggressive with and without the ball. Swallow our opponents to play too much.

 

[cyberman]

@Pogue Mahone
But our approach v Swansea would have failed miserably against Liverpool.
Jose can still pull out those games such as Utd v Chelsea at OT last year where he can identify and ruthlessly exploit weaknesses in "unstoppable" sides but his adaptability in those situations shouldn't be mistaken for inconsistency.
It's not as if he's adapting his tactics for West Brom away.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@Pogue Mahone
But our approach v Swansea would have failed miserably against Liverpool.
Jose can still pull out those games such as Utd v Chelsea at OT last year where he can identify and ruthlessly exploit weaknesses in "unstoppable" sides but his adaptability in those situations shouldn't be mistaken for inconsistency.
It's not as if he's adapting his tactics for West Brom away.

I get that. I just think changing our approach, game to game, hinders momentum and continuity. Ironically, the sainted Pep Guardiola caused his team similar problems last night by picking a team/tactics intended to nullify Salah rather than playing to its own strengths and going with exactly the same approach that blew Everton away.

 

[JPRouve]

Dont disagree with anything you say. The inner battles in sports are very intriguing. One of the reasons I love cricket, a sport many brand as boring, is because of these battles.

I think what you describe is how Mourinho would ideally like us to develop into. I thought our game against Liverpool displayed a lot of positives. Heck, you could argue Pep tried to implement the same ideas to stop Salah but, in fairness, he and City werent good enough stepping out of their comfort zones.

Then we have a philosophical agreement, I defended Mourinho's supposed style before he joined us because most of the time his teams are good to watch but I also criticized his approach to big games because I believe that he often handcuffs his own players. In the case of United, our team his built to attack, our best players are good on the front foot and his approach make them look a lot worse than they are that's my problem, if he had Atletico's players, I would be 100% behind that approach but he doesn't and there is no reason to flip the roster. I hope that you see my point, it's not a general complain about Mourinho.

 

[cyberman]

@Pogue Mahone
Maybe but our disjointed squad is also a factor.
Pogba is out we simply miss everything from midfield.
Mata is injured we play Lingard / Martial on the right.
We either have the fast paced, tricky Rashford on the left who stretches play or the hard working, play it to feet Sanchez who drifts inside.
Its very hard to make a change that doesn't drastically alter what the replacement brings.
If there is any inconsistency it could be down to the varing styles of players 4 managers in 6 years would bring.

 

[breakout67]

Hasn't the manager already done his fair share of elevating players above their level?

He has done it with Herrera, Fellaini and Young. Depending on your opinion of our defenders, he could have also done it with Smalling and Jones.

The stumbling block we face is getting our star players to perform together as a team. I'm not really sure Klopp has it in him to manage a team full of massive egos.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

He generalized his point when he talked about people's boring lives and the 2 hours of entertainment, that's as general as something can be. That sentence is weird because who in his right mind will spend two hours doing something that he feels will be boring? My problem is with ridiculing the idea that some people might not want to be bored outside of work. Then he moved the goalpost by basically saying that it's less boring than under LVG which wasn't his point nor mine.

He wasn't generalizing, he used an exaggeration before expressing his main point. At least that's how i saw it. Moving from an example of two games to a description of the entirety of Mourinho's time at United (boring) is generalizing. Again, that's how i saw it. But i'll stop here. If he wants, he can defend himself against your arguments.

As far as i'm concerned, watching my favourite club is never boring because it's always emotional. These emotions may vary from sheer happiness and joy to utter anger and frustration but watching my club is never boring. It can never be boring in the same manner in which a movie or a music album can be boring because there's so much more emotional investment to it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hasn't the manager already done his fair share of elevating players above their level?

He has done it with Herrera, Fellaini and Young. Depending on your opinion of our defenders, he could have also done it with Smalling and Jones.

The stumbling block we face is getting our star players to perform together as a team. I'm not really sure Klopp has it in him to manage a team full of massive egos.

Seeing as one of them can’t get a game and another is on his way out this summer those are pretty terrible examples.

Lingard and Young are the only examples I can think of who punch above their weight under Mourinho. And that’s not good at all, almost two years into his project. Especially when you consider he didn’t sign either of them!