Liverpool are a better attacking team on the eye, and in terms of goals scored. That's a simple reality.
That they've scored a full 15 more league goals than us is simply deplorable given our resources and personnel.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Liverpool are a better attacking team on the eye, and in terms of goals scored. That's a simple reality.
That they've scored a full 15 more league goals than us is simply deplorable given our resources and personnel.
I didn't say they were more successful than us rather that they regularly play far better football than we do.
But we aren't tumescent. We have scored what, 3rd most in the league? We have 18 sides behind us so our consistency is clearly better than theirs.
Seriously baffled at this spoilt attitude that we are "tumescent" to watch. I bet if we had a good game and progressed against Sevilla not a single poster would say we are tumescent. We'd have beaten Chelsea Liverpool sevilla Swansea Palace etc and people would be chanting Mourinho's name. But one off game against Sevilla and its a complete 180 degree turn. Forget all the other games, the results and the style of play and just focus on one game to beat mourinho with a stick with (not saying this is what you're doing in this case but a lot of posters do) .
I'm not going to try and argue that we are better attacking unit. But I'm questioning why it's a problem or why Klopp is suddenly making more progress because he has scored more goals. There are more ways to play football and a managers progress shouldn't be marked just on how exciting they look going forward.
You're right, at United it should be both results and excitement.
I agree with all of this but it can't be done at this late stage. The high tempo pressing game is anathema to Jose now. He won't and can't tear up the tactics book at this stage.Performances like Liverpool's last night is why Mourinho (and his rabid defenders) don't have much of a leg to stand on. Football is so much more than names on the team sheet (I'm looking at the let's sign Dybala and Milinkovic-Savicmuppets).
Klopp's side took the game to City with a three man midfield of Milner, Henderson and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Seriously, that's their midfield three. People should bear that in mind when they argue - ludicrously - that we can't play good football because the likes of Mata, Herrera or Ashley Young are in the first team.
Mourinho will have watched how to beat City. Hopefully we try and do that with some cohesive attacking football and a pair of bollocks at the weekend. If we don't, justified criticism will likely come this way.
Frustrate and contend, defend and neutralise. Keep your shape, wait for a mistake.
Jesus H on a bike.
Jose hasn’t even been here for 2 years and people want him out.
Kids and new toys.
The progression is there for all to see.
I hope he has a good 10 year, trophy laden stint to prove all the doubters wrong.
Jose hasn’t even been here for 2 years and people want him out.
Kids and new toys.
The progression is there for all to see.
I hope he has a good 10 year, trophy laden stint to prove all the doubters wrong.
Performances like Liverpool's last night is why Mourinho (and his rabid defenders) don't have much of a leg to stand on. Football is so much more than names on the team sheet (I'm looking at the let's sign Dybala and Milinkovic-Savic
Klopp's side took the game to City with a three man midfield of Milner, Henderson and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Seriously, that's their midfield three. People should bear that in mind when they argue - ludicrously - that we can't play good football because the likes of Mata, Herrera or Ashley Young are in the first team.
Mourinho will have watched how to beat City. Hopefully we try and do that with some cohesive attacking football and a pair of bollocks at the weekend. If we don't, justified criticism will likely come this way.
Serious question though. Liverpool have been training to play like this ever since Klopp took over. Do you think we should try to do that this weekend after barely a couple of weeks training at most?
Manchester United manager's are marked based on how exciting they look going forward. If Mourinho didn't get that memo then he's in the wrong job.
Lots of people (me included) have been arguing that our football is largely shite to watch for ages now. For me, the penny dropped over a year ago. That feeling has been compounded this season by watching our rivals (City, Spurs and Liverpool) play a brand of football - on occasions - against top sides that we simply can't (or won't?) identify with.
People aren't making these criticisms up.
I'm not sure you've used any thinking tbh. The merit of tactics change by game and opponent, isn't that obvious to you?
This is the shit I'm talking about, pure whataboutery to justify your own hate.
No if we had got a late goal against Seville it would have given us another 180 mins of the same last night. We are consistent and we grind out results. Sorry but I had hoped for much better, its not just one game it is Jose's default setting in many games or lets be honest most times if we get a goal ahead against anyone.
We played well against Liverpool and Arsenal but inviting teams on to us time after time again eventually your luck runs out
Indeed. This is why I have wider problems with Mourinho. To play the way I'd like us to play we'd probably need a new manager. Although in Mourinho's defence, his past teams were never this drab.
You are a funny guy I pay my money I am entitled to my opinion.
I see a regular trend in our tactics, for me it is Jose's achilles heel.
Did you think we were drab under Sir Alex? Because our average under him was not incredibly exciting no matter what we now try and tell ourselves the only difference was absolute trust in the man. Only the idiots piped up with criticisms
@edgar allan
Klopp has spent 231m since taking charge with 80 odd million already spent on a player for next season. Jose has spent 286m.
Even if those numbers are slightly out here or there, Id say the value of our starting 11 are quite similar.
Just shows how bias can blind you.
Klopp has spent 231m since taking charge with 80 odd million already spent on a player for next season. Jose has spent 286m.
Even if those numbers are slightly out here or there, Id say the value of our starting 11 are quite similar.
Just shows how bias can blind you.
I think its naive to believe that exciting style of play was at the forefront of Ed Woodwards mind when replacing LVG.
After SAF, sure you want a manager who can do both. Then after Moyes maybe still, you want a manager who can do both. But after LVG when you're entering your 4th season without a title challenge and spiralled out the Champions League (again) , you're probably looking for the man who can get results first and excitement after.
At this stage the club should be settling in the near term before pointing to exciting brands of play. And I think that's what the board have rightly done.
Mourinho will probably give us excitement, but it was never happening with our midfield options this season. Carrick as good as gone, Fellaini and Herrera chronically injured and Pogba off form. He's got results whilst knowing he hasn't overhauled the team to the extent he wanted. When his transformation is complete, the excitement will probably return.
Except that United are (almost) net spending those sums and Liverpool are actually selling players to finance their transfers?
Generally, no. I find it disingenuous that people now rush to compare our current brand of football under Mourinho to Ferguson's wider tenure. Seriously?
There were issues with our football under Ferguson that began the season we sold Ronaldo. The team deteriorated and we played with little imagination and movement. These were real issues that were discussed by people who were more than simple "idiots", as you put it. I even remember arguing that when Ferguson retired it didn't necessarily mean the end of the world - and that there were elements of our football that another manager could improve. Just not David Moyes.
What Ferguson did get right (one of a million things, of course), however, was scoring goals. We were top of the charts every season. We were (generally) relentless in trying to score.
Why people like you are now pretending that this wasn't the case for the large majority of Ferguson's tenure is beyond me. If it's some misguided attempt at defending Mourinho then it's just that: misguided.
So he has spent 50 million less in a year more, not including the huge difference in net spend having to replace Coutinho.
Jeez some of you seem to live really boring and miserable lives and looking for 2 hours per week of excitement to fix it 
Yes, we are not playing the best football in the galaxy and yes, we are not winning quadruple this season but for fecks sake, we are not doing too bad and wanting him gone after this season is mental.
Liverpool parked the bus second half against City, exactly same way we did against Liverpool at OT. Difference is, Jose got bashed by you lot while Klopp became a genius showing he can park the bus when he needs to. Hypocrisy at it's best.
Yes, we are not playing the best football in the galaxy and yes, we are not winning quadruple this season but for fecks sake, we are not doing too bad and wanting him gone after this season is mental.Liverpool parked the bus second half against City, exactly same way we did against Liverpool at OT. Difference is, Jose got bashed by you lot while Klopp became a genius showing he can park the bus when he needs to. Hypocrisy at it's best.
Yeah can't disagree. The remaining games of the season will show whether the first half performance against Swansea was a statement of intent or simply a one-off result of Swansea being terrible. However, the City match would be the one exception I'd argue is understandable for him to revert to his safety-first approach, because he wouldn't have had time to drill his team for a more aggressive strategy.
We're not that drab. We spent the first half of this season playing better football than the two teams so many worship here (Spurs and Pool). But, many would argue that we haven't - however, you don't spend most of the season outscoring your rivals by playing shit on a stick football. Recently, we've had more mixed performances than you'd want however, we were still picking up the results until the Sevilla debacle. Moreover, we still have a few games to show that we're moving in the right direction.
I know it doesn't count for much, but, throughout 2018, only Liverpool have been better than us.
Ed Woodward won't care. He'll be quite happy, I imagine. But supporters do. The media do. A Manchester United manager is expected to play exciting, attacking football.
If we were winning, then I guess many more would be satisfied. But at the moment we get neither. The club isn't top and the quality of football isn't remotely good enough (in my opinion). Hence the criticism.
Mourinho will get this summer to make further additions. Hopefully they are the right ones and that these new players can allow for a change in how we approach (especially bigger) matches. I remain sceptical, however, as I have done for a long time now.
To much to hope having spent 130 million on two midfielders that we could match the likes of Newcastle's midfield during this transition?
There are no world beaters in the Liverpool oR Spurs midfield but they manage to play a bit.
Jeez some of you seem to live really boring and miserable lives and looking for 2 hours per week of excitement to fix it
Liverpool parked the bus second half against City, exactly same way we did against Liverpool at OT. Difference is, Jose got bashed by you lot while Klopp became a genius showing he can park the bus when he needs to. Hypocrisy at it's best.
The pattern of the two games was almost identical. If Mata had converted that fairly simple chance when he went for the spectacular then the result would have been the same too.
Jeez some of you seem to live really boring and miserable lives and looking for 2 hours per week of excitement to fix it
Liverpool parked the bus second half against City, exactly same way we did against Liverpool at OT. Difference is, Jose got bashed by you lot while Klopp became a genius showing he can park the bus when he needs to. Hypocrisy at it's best.
You turned that in a strange way, maybe people don't want to spend 2 miserable hours per week and they might have better things to do if that's what they are supposed to expect from a game of football? The reality is that football is an entertainment whether you watch or play it, it's not chore and it's not supposed to feel like it.
@edgar allan @do.ob
We didnt have Coutinho either so its a wash.
Fact is, this is what Jose and Klopp built for 260 odd million. It doesn't matter how its financed, this is it.
Just pointing out that the difference in spend being an extra Chamberlain for Utd doesn't mean Klopp is a miracle worker with less resources.
Or are we ignoring the fact Pep has spent 150m more than us but Jose still gets roasted for that.
Jose spent 50m than Klopp and is 5 points ahead.
Pep spent 150m more and is 16 points ahead.
The ratio checks out!
We didnt have Coutinho either so its a wash.
Fact is, this is what Jose and Klopp built for 260 odd million. It doesn't matter how its financed, this is it.
Just pointing out that the difference in spend being an extra Chamberlain for Utd doesn't mean Klopp is a miracle worker with less resources.
Or are we ignoring the fact Pep has spent 150m more than us but Jose still gets roasted for that.
Jose spent 50m than Klopp and is 5 points ahead.
Pep spent 150m more and is 16 points ahead.
The ratio checks out!
LVG was a chore to watch, we are nowhere near it. Stop crying or watch some highlights from a few years ago if you forgot how we played.
If we're talking about output then sure i agree, I've always said we need to go back to higher goal tallies.
The issue is conflated with performance though as people aren't asking for more goals they're asking for 'modern', 'progressive', 'dynamic' blah blah. None of which we were under Fergie, we were lethal.
Saying that, if we had 10 more league goals i think people would still be complaining.
But we were never going to get consistently entertaining football this season. We had a strong first half of the season, as @Di Maria's angel pointed out. Concentrated injuries in the middle of the park certainly didn't help.
Look I agree that it's been too long where we haven't played the best football in the league but I don't think we are miles off where we should be. When LVG left I just cared about being relevant again if I'm honest. I wanted exciting football to come after if need be and I'm sure a lot of fans would have thought the same.
I have been trying to say this, but no-one wants to believe me. Some are convinced that Liverpool 'didn't let City have the ball' and they fit this into their grand theory of how to play football the 'right' way.
This was a professional counter attacking performance; with a slice of park the bus. Just like when we beat Liverpool at OT.
Liverpool had 399 passes of which 17% were long balls, Man City played 772 passes of which 9% were long balls. City were the ones trying to build the play, while Liverpool were trying to get the ball to their forwards as quick as possible. Liverpool were very direct and effective.
Well actually if you have to sell to buy then that is a better reflection on the managerial skill imo. We got a 100 million rated forward for nothing but huge wages to add into any mix.
Anyways it pains me to say it but I was jealous of how Liverpool played last night and it was in sharp contrast to how we played City when it really mattered earlier in the season.
We might very well snatch something from a distracted City at the weekend but I will read little into it.
But Mourinho didn't buy the players he sold so it's not fair to judge on net spend. Moreover we work on a different financial model to Liverpool and probably look less at balancing net transfers due to the huge commercial revenue.
I'd look at who each manager as brought in and how they have helped the team.
Last night showed me that we have manager who can adjust to different opponents.
City's plan A, and lack of plan B, was the perfect matchup for Liverpool.
What does Liverpool want their opponents to do?
Play with a high line defense.
Start attacks from the back, playing short passes up the field.
Mourinho knew this. Guardiola propably knew this too, but is too stubborn to change approach.
City's plan A, and lack of plan B, was the perfect matchup for Liverpool.
What does Liverpool want their opponents to do?
Play with a high line defense.
Start attacks from the back, playing short passes up the field.
Mourinho knew this. Guardiola propably knew this too, but is too stubborn to change approach.
Yeah move the goalpost, it's not going to make your initial point silly.
Well, winning (which we're pretty decent at) is far more important and provides more excitement than playing exciting football. Obviously, we need to win more and we've probably had a little too many boring games this season. But the lack of entertainment really hasn't been a huge issue, especially in recent weeks. We've had some very fun games to watch - Watford, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Palace, Newcastle, West Ham, Swansea, CSKA, Basel, Tottenham etc. I'd say for every two entertaining games, we've had one overly boring game to accompany it. Across, the 45 games we've played, we've probably had 10-15 shit ones.
I would not say that Utd attacked Liverpool with the same force and numbers that they did to City last night. Mou identified a weakness, Lovren in the air against Lukaku and the right full back. Targeted them, but it is not as if Utd were ever really forcing the game, sat deep, allowed Liverpool the ball, hit it long when they did have it, and waited for a mistake, always stopping the opportunity for Liverpool to get on the counter or win the ball high.
Rare to see Utd under Mou go and and attack the game as Liverpool did in the first half last night, especially against good teams. Anyway, Mou is divisive, there is always going to be this conflict among the fans over how he plays, even if Utd were top of the league there would be issues. His style is not for everyone.
His initial point, the one you quoted, about Utd-Liverpool and Liverpool-City being identical is 100% spot on. Yesterday, the Scousers had a terrific first half but they also had the rub of the green since they had 4 shots on target (5 in total) and scored 3 goals. Similarly, we had 3 shots on target, we scored two goals and we missed a glorious opportunity to make it three. In the second half, all Liverpool did was sit back and soak up the pressure. The difference between us and them was that they miraculously held their own at the back while a brainfart from Bailly got Liverpool back in the game at OT. Yet, according to some, only our performance in the second half was "a disgrace" and only our tactics were reeking "cowardice". Plus, in his opening sentence, he admitted that there are still a lot of things to be desired from our style of play. All in all, he didn't move any goalposts.
Is okay since they play "attacking football". Entertainment is all what matters among their fans. Winning a trophy is secondary.
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