Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[cyberman]

Yes. After getting a 3-0 lead because he fully dominated the first half, and after their main outlet got injured. You cant seriously say Mourinho would ever be capable having us do something like this at this stage? Madrid fans criticized him and blamed him for getting knocked out against Bayern all those years ago for the same reason. They dominated the opening 15 minutes, got a 2-0 lead and then sat back and handed Bayern the initiative and it costed them. He does it was too much and it hasnt brought him big, impressive success in ages. Yet he hasnt changed.

I'm lost here. He's literally doing the exact same thing youre complaining about but it could be argued this is even worse since this is a two legged tie.
They may need another goal to go through, he's sitting back with 270 minutes left to play.
There's honestly no difference between 2-0 or 3-0 for these tactics to be "acceptable."
You started crying at halftime and your mind is already made up.

 

[bosnian_red]

Nah the timing is a team that half our fanbase have been wanking over all season, playing as open as you demand we should, getting picked off and hammered, and then the team that did the hammering easing off and sitting back looking to hit them on the break in a way you're saying they/we should never do.

We were awful against Sevilla – I note by all accounts they gave Bayern a game last night and were unlucky to lose, so maybe the narrative that they're an awful team is a bit misplaced – but our record in the big games is decent this season and better than Liverpool's amusingly so perhaps holding them up as a shining example of how we should approach these games is ill advised.

I never said you should never sit back and play on the counter. There are of course times to do that. Sevilla in the CL? Never. And they aren't an awful side, but not much more then decent. Also it was more about the home game. Bayern went there and beat them. We grinded out an away 0-0, which is whatever, you expect to dominate the home game. Only we didn't at all.

Also City have hammered literally everyone they played this season. They're getting shat on today and have made mistakes, but let's not pretend like their approach suddenly doesnt work because of one result when they've set records in the premier league.
As for the big game record... feel like there's very little between ours and liverpool's this season. But they look they have a foot in the CL semi final, while we got knocked out right away because of our approach. And they entertain their fans in pretty much every game. Doesnt always work, but it's something that Sir Matt and Sir Alex both always said was a necessity for Manchester United to do. Entertain the fans at least in most games.

 

[Trophy Room]

How many wonderful performances do you remember from Sir Alex's last season at United? Better yet lets turn the clock back to say 2008/09, when we were European Champions and World Club Cup Champions. How many wonderful performances? Was champagne football on the menu every week or did we grind out performances more often than not?

The way you talk makes me wonder how long you've been watching Manchester United. I'm not making out that Mourinho's United plays as well as Fergie's. However, a trademark from Sir Alex's era was people saying of his teams 'the mark of champions is when they can win without playing well.' Under Sir Alex we did that lots. The defining mark of his sides was how they embodied his will to win and fought until the end when they needed to. However, we weren't blowing sides away week in week out. Even those you consider to be relegation fodder.

Absolutely agree.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I never said you should never sit back and play on the counter. There are of course times to do that. Sevilla in the CL? Never. And they aren't an awful side, but not much more then decent. Also it was more about the home game. Bayern went there and beat them. We grinded out an away 0-0, which is whatever, you expect to dominate the home game. Only we didn't at all.

Also City have hammered literally everyone they played this season. They're getting shat on today and have made mistakes, but let's not pretend like their approach suddenly doesnt work because of one result when they've set records in the premier league.
As for the big game record... feel like there's very little between ours and liverpool's this season. But they look they have a foot in the CL semi final, while we got knocked out right away because of our approach. And they entertain their fans in pretty much every game. Doesnt always work, but it's something that Sir Matt and Sir Alex both always said was a necessity for Manchester United to do. Entertain the fans at least in most games.

Sevilla was an awful game, no one is disagreeing with you, but you're banging on like its the only game we've played all season. Just admit you were prematurely chatting bollocks and move on. We've all been there.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm lost here. He's literally doing the exact same thing youre complaining about but it could be argued this is even worse since this is a two legged tie.
They may need another goal to go through, he's sitting back with 270 minutes left to play.
There's honestly no difference between 2-0 or 3-0 for these tactics to be "acceptable."
You started crying at halftime and your mind is already made up.

Um quite a big difference between a 2-0 win and a 3-0 win. Also a big difference in changing your gameplan 15 minutes into a game because it worked for 15 minutes, and adapting at half time because the opponent can finally change something at half too. But whatever. Agree to disagree. My point is that Mourinho will never bring us further then grinding out results and needing to be clinical with few chances, instead of deservedly beating an opponent through the chances created at a stage like this.

 

[bosnian_red]

Sevilla was an awful game, no one is disagreeing with you, but you're banging on like its the only game we've played all season. Just admit you were prematurely chatting bollocks and move on. We've all been there.

How am I chatting bollocks? I've said my points as reasons why I dont want him as manager of United, and unless his approach in these games changes, then my opinion won't change. It's not about occasionally getting a good result in big games.

 

[NinjaFletch]

How am I chatting bollocks? I've said my points as reasons why I dont want him as manager of United, and unless his approach in these games changes, then my opinion won't change. It's not about occasionally getting a good result in big games.

With 'occasionally' here being used in its normal sense of 'more frequently than the team you're fawning over', of course.

 

[cyberman]

Um quite a big difference between a 2-0 win and a 3-0 win. Also a big difference in changing your gameplan 15 minutes into a game because it worked for 15 minutes, and adapting at half time because the opponent can finally change something at half too. But whatever. Agree to disagree. My point is that Mourinho will never bring us further then grinding out results and needing to be clinical with few chances, instead of deservedly beating an opponent through the chances created at a stage like this.

Is there though? You might want to re read your post at halftime before you started moving the goalposts like this.
Yes but...yes but..
Anyway we'll move on lol

 

[bosnian_red]

He won the league in 2015.

What amazing success aside from league titles has Pep's approach brought him of late? What has Klopp won with his approach at Liverpool thus far?

Mourinho has won 1 league title in the past 6 seasons. Hasnt gotten close to winning it in the other 5 seasons. All while playing his pragmatic football. How has he done in the CL in that time? Not in it last season of course, but got us in the CL through Europa league because he finished 6th in the league. This season out at the 16. Dont remember Chelsea getting very far in his 2-3 seasons there after Madrid. Ultimately failed at Madrid and once he left them, they proceeded to win 3 CL in the 4 seasons after (and this season as good a shot as anybody).

Klopp has always been in charge of smaller teams and has his failings as a manager, but nobody can deny that they play great attacking football, finished ahead of Mourinho last season, are right behind us this season but have a foot in the semi finals.

Pep has set records at City this season and are playing great attacking football. Again, he has his failings, but every manager will have way more lee-way and will get more credit if they achieve success while entertaining fans. A manager who relies on being pragmatic for success will be on thin ice the second he fails.

 

[redIndianDevil]

So after Liverpool (a) we haven't had a single good game? So when we beat Newcastle 4-1 that was a bad performance? How about 4-2 away at Watford? Everton away on New Year's? 3-0 against Stoke at home etc.?

Had we opened up against Liverpool would we have won like we did a month ago? Your criticism of Mourinho's tactics makes no sense to me. Not every opponent can just be outplayed.

He adapts to suit the situation and more often than not that's served us well. A lot of the bellyaching is just a hang over from the Sevilla debacle.

Sure not everyone can be outplayed. But we are supposed to play like relegation contenders against Sevilla too?

 

[redIndianDevil]

Nah the timing is a team that half our fanbase have been wanking over all season, playing as open as you demand we should, getting picked off and hammered, and then the team that did the hammering easing off and sitting back looking to hit them on the break in a way you're saying they/we should never do.

We were awful against Sevilla – I note by all accounts they gave Bayern a game last night and were unlucky to lose, so maybe the narrative that they're an awful team is a bit misplaced – but our record in the big games is decent this season and better than Liverpool's amusingly so perhaps holding them up as a shining example of how we should approach these games is ill advised.

If you think we press, force a mistake and counter attack like Liverpool do, then you are either seriously deluded or you don't ever watch our matches.

 

[NinjaFletch]

If you think we press, force a mistake and counter attack like Liverpool do, then you are either seriously deluded or you don't ever watch our matches.

No I think either you can't read or you didn't watch the second half of this game.

 

[#07]

Mourinho has won 1 league title in the past 6 seasons. Hasnt gotten close to winning it in the other 5 seasons. All while playing his pragmatic football. How has he done in the CL in that time? Not in it last season of course, but got us in the CL through Europa league because he finished 6th in the league. This season out at the 16. Dont remember Chelsea getting very far in his 2-3 seasons there after Madrid. Ultimately failed at Madrid and once he left them, they proceeded to win 3 CL in the 4 seasons after (and this season as good a shot as anybody).

Klopp has always been in charge of smaller teams and has his failings as a manager, but nobody can deny that they play great attacking football, finished ahead of Mourinho last season, are right behind us this season but have a foot in the semi finals.

Pep has set records at City this season and are playing great attacking football. Again, he has his failings, but every manager will have way more lee-way and will get more credit if they achieve success while entertaining fans. A manager who relies on being pragmatic for success will be on thin ice the second he fails.

Didn't Jose win a league title at Madrid in 2011/12, with 100 points and 121 goals? That was six years ago. Since then he's won the English Premier League title with Chelsea. So actually he's won two league titles. Also its false to say he hasn't gotten close at other points. His team should've won the league in 2014 but collapsed during the spring. Also, there's a context to his time in Spain: he was up against the best Barcelona ever. Not exactly easy to outdo over a 38 game season.

You're bending the facts to suit your narrative. Liverpool play good football sometimes. However, there have been plenty of times like against Wolves and Burnley when they haven't been good. Plenty of games in which they have not been given space to play into and had to really struggle.

You have a view of football that seems to be based solely on the best performances of teams, which oddly glosses over bad performances from our rivals but over-emphasises them in our case.

Sure not everyone can be outplayed. But we are supposed to play like relegation contenders against Sevilla too?

The team got stage fright. Its not excusable but considering how much Sevilla outplayed Bayern yesterday its not as bad as you're making out. We should've done better and could've done better. Mourinho did get it wrong, thinking he could use Fellaini to by pass midfield, but one mistake is an outlier not a trend.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Oh will people please get out of Pep and Klopps ass?
They literally have no plan b whatsoever. Klopp and Liverpool are winning nothing. Ever.
Pep will now throw another half a billion at the team and this might actually disrupt them. They can only fit so many globetrotters together.

 

[redIndianDevil]

How many wonderful performances do you remember from Sir Alex's last season at United? Better yet lets turn the clock back to say 2008/09, when we were European Champions and World Club Cup Champions. How many wonderful performances? Was champagne football on the menu every week or did we grind out performances more often than not?

The way you talk makes me wonder how long you've been watching Manchester United. I'm not making out that Mourinho's United plays as well as Fergie's. However, a trademark from Sir Alex's era was people saying of his teams 'the mark of champions is when they can win without playing well.' Under Sir Alex we did that lots. The defining mark of his sides was how they embodied his will to win and fought until the end when they needed to. However, we weren't blowing sides away week in week out. Even those you consider to be relegation fodder.

Oh please feck off with the Fergie comparisons. It's pathetic that Mourinho gets constantly compared to SAF, one of the behemoths of our clubs every time. Its frankly stupid IMO.

 

[#07]

Oh please feck off with the Fergie comparisons. It's pathetic that Mourinho gets constantly compared to SAF, one of the behemoths of our clubs every time. Its frankly stupid IMO.

Do one mate.

The other bloke was acting like every game we play should be sunshine and rainbows. I reminded him that wasn't how it was even when were at our historical apex.

Clearly you don't remember what it was like under Fergie either.

 

[redIndianDevil]

The team got stage fright. Its not excusable but considering how much Sevilla outplayed Bayern yesterday its not as bad as you're making out. We should've done better and could've done better. Mourinho did get it wrong, thinking he could use Fellaini to by pass midfield, but one mistake is an outlier not a trend.

Strangest ever excuse spouted again to defend the Sevilla game. No the players didn't get fecking stage fright, Mourinho fecked up by trying to hoof it to Fellaini.

 

[breakout67]

LOL at people criticizing Mourinho from this Liverpool v City game. Football is often a game of stylistic match ups. Klopp has been handed his arse by Mourinho, while Mourinho has been handed his arse by Guardiola, while Guardiola has been handed his arse by Klopp.

If you're asking a manager to play like Liverpool against City, like United against Liverpool and like City against United then you are asking for a miracle from God.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Is this place full of bots? Every page is just a repeat of the previous one. The fact that so many posters are still crying about the Sevilla game is ridiculous. Its happened, can you not let it go?

Ironic seeing some comments being posted at half time about Liverpools attacking performance when they literally did not leave their half for 45 minutes. People criticised us for the way we played against Arsenal and Liverpool, but are so far up Klopps arse, they wont dare acknowledge that the team they worship so much took a leaf out of our book to secure the win.

 

[#07]

Strangest ever excuse spouted again to defend the Sevilla game. No the players didn't get fecking stage fright, Mourinho fecked up by trying to hoof it to Fellaini.

I've no interest in replying to you anymore mate. At least the other bloke was willing to try and debate rather than starting his reply with an f off.

As I said. Do one. That's me done as far as talking to you goes.

 

[breakout67]

Is this place full of bots? Every page is just a repeat of the previous one. The fact that so many posters are still crying about the Sevilla game is ridiculous. Its happened, can you not let it go?

Ironic seeing some comments being posted at half time about Liverpools attacking performance when they literally did not leave their half for 45 minutes. People criticised us for the way we played against Arsenal and Liverpool, but are so far up Klopps arse, they wont dare acknowledge that the team they worship so much took a leaf out of our book to secure the win.

That game was basically a repeat of the game against Liverpool at OT, except Liverpool were on the losing side.

Liverpool completely outplayed City in the first half and scored 3 goals, Utd did the same to Liverpool except missed a sitter tomake it 3-0. Then both teams spent the 2nd half camped in their own half.

 

[Seveneric]

The team got stage fright. Its not excusable but considering how much Sevilla outplayed Bayern yesterday its not as bad as you're making out. We should've done better and could've done better. Mourinho did get it wrong, thinking he could use Fellaini to by pass midfield, but one mistake is an outlier not a trend.

That bit is just laughable. Kindly stick to reminding us how awful everything was under Fergie to defend your man.

 

[bosnian_red]

With 'occasionally' here being used in its normal sense of 'more frequently than the team you're fawning over', of course.

Didn't Jose win a league title at Madrid in 2011/12, with 100 points and 121 goals? That was six years ago. Since then he's won the English Premier League title with Chelsea. So actually he's won two league titles. Also its false to say he hasn't gotten close at other points. His team should've won the league in 2014 but collapsed during the spring. Also, there's a context to his time in Spain: he was up against the best Barcelona ever. Not exactly easy to outdo over a 38 game season.

You're bending the facts to suit your narrative. Liverpool play good football sometimes. However, there have been plenty of times like against Wolves and Burnley when they haven't been good. Plenty of games in which they have not been given space to play into and had to really struggle.

You have a view of football that seems to be based solely on the best performances of teams, which oddly glosses over bad performances from our rivals but over-emphasises them in our case.

Past 6 seasons - 12/13, 13/14, 14/15, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18 (this one). But yeah, 11/12 was a good one from Mourinho. He then went backwards in 12/13 and hasn't really been the same since. Also by saying he ultimately failed at Madrid, I meant in terms of the CL. Many Madrid fans blamed him for going out to Bayern, and with good reason, because he went pragmatic at a time when it was looking like they could hammer them and kill the tie. Also in 13/14... They finished 3rd, they were always around there, but it was pretty much always City and Liverpool looking favorites for the title. He played the role of spoiler and ending it for Liverpool more then anything.

And like I said in other posts, nobody can play great football all the time. I'm not saying we have to play great football all the time. It is important to always go with a game plan of trying to win the game though, which Mourinho definitely doesn't always do. It was always a criticism against him from many United fans before he came to United. And now that he's here, it's the same. Only now, he hasn't been successful. It's a point that many people have said. You get Mourinho to get instant success and win trophies. Not for the style of play, not to entertain fans, not to build for the future... But what happens when Mourinho doesn't get success? What do you have to defend him with? I don't see many signs on the pitch of him building a side that can turn into a top side in the near future. Many of our best players are constantly underperforming and we constantly play like a group of individuals rather then a sum greater then it's parts like Sir Alex always managed to do, and like how Pochettino, Klopp and Guardiola are all doing with their clubs this season. And at that point, why keep him?

The best thing about Mourinho's time here is that whoever takes over after him will inherit a much better squad then the one before Mourinho, so credit to him for that. But the players right now definitely aren't playing as good as they should be, and the majority of the time, Mourinho doesn't have us playing an entertaining style. It's not me glossing over other teams bad games and ignoring our good ones, you'd be very hard pressed to find people who would agree that Liverpool are not a more entertaining team then we are. Same with Spurs, and obviously City. Liverpool and Spurs are inconsistent, so it doesn't happen all the time, but they look on average more like a "team" rather then disjointed play that gets wins because of simply having better players like is often the case for us.

 

[#07]

That bit is just laughable. Kindly stick to reminding us how awful everything was under Fergie to defend your man.

So you missed the part where I said Mourinho got it wrong? Amazing how one eyed dislike of Jose makes some people.

Would you like to provide some quotes of me saying anything negative about Fergie's time at United? Thanks. I'm pretty sure none exist. I'm sure I've never used the word 'awful' when talking about Sir Alex.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

That game was basically a repeat of the game against Liverpool at OT, except Liverpool were on the losing side.

Liverpool completely outplayed City in the first half and scored 3 goals, Utd did the same to Liverpool except missed a sitter tomake it 3-0. Then both teams spent the 2nd half camped in their own half.

The only difference is that Liverpool dominated us in the second half and controlled the second half this evening.

 

[K2K]

I wonder if we will attempt to have a go against City.

Our last trip to City and last two to Anfield have been shocking with zero intent to try and win the game.

But Mourinho is Mourinho. So I expect more of the same.

 

[Theonas]

That game was basically a repeat of the game against Liverpool at OT, except Liverpool were on the losing side.

Liverpool completely outplayed City in the first half and scored 3 goals, Utd did the same to Liverpool except missed a sitter tomake it 3-0. Then both teams spent the 2nd half camped in their own half.

No it wasn't. Liverpool attacked much better than we did. Their counters with their passing and transitions were much sharper and more frequent. We had two long balls and good flicks from Lukaku. Maybe the Arsenal away game for us was a bit closer as we played some good counters then.

 

[Utdstar01]

Our style of play wasn't all rosey under SAF tbh. Anyone who thinks we played wonderful and beautiful football under SAF all the time needs to revisit some of our games and realise that we did deliver some shower of shite on occasion and that was under a collosus of a manager who had been at the club for years with an incredible amount of stability in the club. We were extremely efficient as a team and that's the kind of manager that Mourinho is and how he likes his teams to operate. We had an identity but we also had a much better and experienced collection of players in attacking areas who understood our game.

 

[breakout67]

The only difference is that Liverpool dominated us in the second half and controlled the second half this evening.

They didn't get a shot on target in the 2nd half...we did a proper park the bus job on them in the 2nd half.

 

[bosnian_red]

How many wonderful performances do you remember from Sir Alex's last season at United? Better yet lets turn the clock back to say 2008/09, when we were European Champions and World Club Cup Champions. How many wonderful performances? Was champagne football on the menu every week or did we grind out performances more often than not?

The way you talk makes me wonder how long you've been watching Manchester United. I'm not making out that Mourinho's United plays as well as Fergie's. However, a trademark from Sir Alex's era was people saying of his teams 'the mark of champions is when they can win without playing well.' Under Sir Alex we did that lots. The defining mark of his sides was how they embodied his will to win and fought until the end when they needed to. However, we weren't blowing sides away week in week out. Even those you consider to be relegation fodder.

Don't compare us right now to under Sir Alex... Yeah, his latter years weren't the most exciting, but we were dominant. We weren't sitting back and ceding over 60% of the possession at Old Trafford - to anyone. Hell, even against Pep's Barca with prime Messi, iniesta and Xavi only had like 54% possession against us in that final.

As for Fergie's last season, the point is that we went for it. Pretty much all the time. We played Mourinho's Real Madrid in the knockout stages (a side with much better players) and were unlucky to go out after creating the better chances in the away leg, and then outplaying them at home. We went into every big game and attacked. There were a lot of problems in our team, masked by some great players like Van Persie, but it was a different attitude. Yeah, we didn't always play great football, but it was always us trying to win, us always trying to find ways to score, we just weren't free flowing but we did create plenty of chances. We didn't go and shut up shop against teams that were worse then us (which was every other side in the league), like Mourinho does. Also probably not the best to ever compare Jose Mourinho to Sir Alex in terms of their times at United.

 

[bleedred]

I think many fans and media just have absolutely no middle ground. Its black and white for them and I see it a symptom of modern day football.

You can see many posters in here jumping on the Klopp bandwagon here after today and get on Peps back as having "no plan B" and if the results do change next week, it would be the other way around.

Its just a single game and people never seem to see it that way!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do any of you cnuts ever get bored of writing walls of text about how crap the manager of the team you support is? Bit of a worry when it gets to the point that you’re getting out the pitchforks on a night where United didn’t even play...

 

[Hugh Jass]

Our style of play wasn't all rosey under SAF tbh. Anyone who thinks we played wonderful and beautiful football under SAF all the time needs to revisit some of our games and realise that we did deliver some shower of shite on occasion and that was under a collosus of a manager who had been at the club for years with an incredible amount of stability in the club. We were extremely efficient as a team and that's the kind of manager that Mourinho is and how he likes his teams to operate. We had an identity but we also had a much better and experienced collection of players in attacking areas who understood our game.

This.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Do any of you cnuts ever get bored of writing walls of text about how crap the manager of the team you support is? Bit of a worry when it gets to the point that you’re getting out the pitchforks on a night where United didn’t even play...

this. Some fans are fans; others are consumers.

 

[Random Task]

Do any of you cnuts ever get bored of writing walls of text about how crap the manager of the team you support is? Bit of a worry when it gets to the point that you’re getting out the pitchforks on a night where United didn’t even play...

Sad isn't it.

 

[#07]

Don't compare us right now to under Sir Alex... Yeah, his latter years weren't the most exciting, but we were dominant. We weren't sitting back and ceding over 60% of the possession at Old Trafford - to anyone. Hell, even against Pep's Barca with prime Messi, iniesta and Xavi only had like 54% possession against us in that final.

As for Fergie's last season, the point is that we went for it. Pretty much all the time. We played Mourinho's Real Madrid in the knockout stages (a side with much better players) and were unlucky to go out after creating the better chances in the away leg, and then outplaying them at home. We went into every big game and attacked. There were a lot of problems in our team, masked by some great players like Van Persie, but it was a different attitude. Yeah, we didn't always play great football, but it was always us trying to win, us always trying to find ways to score, we just weren't free flowing but we did create plenty of chances. We didn't go and shut up shop against teams that were worse then us (which was every other side in the league), like Mourinho does. Also probably not the best to ever compare Jose Mourinho to Sir Alex in terms of their times at United.

I asked about memorable performances. You didn't provide any.

Fortunately for me I can remember some. Smashing West Brom 4-0. Beating Stoke 5-0. Beating Spurs 5-2. The Champions League semi against Arsenal. Fulham 3-0. The Tevez cupped ears game against City.

However, a lot of the games were a bit meh. Even the Macheda match which we all loved was awful. One of the reasons it was so memorable was because we gave up a lead, played rubbish, Ronaldo dragged us back into it and then Macheda bagged at the death. The Sunderland away game a bit later was even worse but we still won.

You are acting like we easily beat every inferior side but that's just not true.

As I said, I'm not saying Mourinho's United are as good as Fergie's. That's obviously not the case. However, you're behaving like United under Fergie was like Barcelona under Pep. That's just not the case.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Do one mate.

The other bloke was acting like every game we play should be sunshine and rainbows. I reminded him that wasn't how it was even when were at our historical apex.

Clearly you don't remember what it was like under Fergie either.

This bizarre attempt to paint Ferguson as a naive idealist who believed in attacking football at all costs is always a bit odd. Ferguson was a winner first and foremost, and whatever he thought gave him the best chance of winning he would do. I dread to think what some of these posters would say about the decision to play, Jones in midfield and Welbeck on the right wing to double mark Bale or the repeat trick against Ronaldo a few weeks later. Or god knows what they would say when they found out he said this:

"There is no doubt about that [the importance of 1-0 wins]," he said. "If we can keep clean sheets from now right through to January, more often than we have been doing, it will give us a good foundation to go for the title."

Or that the entire basis of our late Ferguson era European success being built around drawing away and winning at home.

Or that we reached a European final playing a 4-4-2 with Park playing as a right winger to cover for Giggs in central midfield.

The decision that defending is a dirty word and attempt to re-write history to somehow make out as if Ferguson would agree with that fundamentally fails to appreciate huge parts of what made Ferguson such a ridiculously successful manager. Not to mention the fact that what really set Ferguson's teams apart from the others was their ability to play crap and grind out a win. They didn't need to always turn up and blow teams away just to get three points.

 

[#07]

This bizarre attempt to paint Ferguson as a naive idealist who believed in attacking football at all costs is always a bit odd. Ferguson was a winner first and foremost, and whatever he thought gave him the best chance of winning he would do. I dread to think what some of these posters would say about the decision to play, Jones in midfield and Welbeck on the right wing to double mark Bale or the repeat trick against Ronaldo a few weeks later. Or god knows what they would say when they found out he said this:



Or that the entire basis of our late Ferguson era European success being built around drawing away and winning at home.

Or that we reached a European final playing a 4-4-2 with Park playing as a right winger to cover for Giggs in central midfield.

The decision that defending is a dirty word and attempt to re-write history to somehow make out as if Ferguson would agree with that fundamentally fails to appreciate huge parts of what made Ferguson such a ridiculously successful manager. Not to mention the fact that what really set Ferguson's teams apart from the others was their ability to play crap and grind out a win. They didn't need to always turn up and blow teams away just to get three points.

Bringing facts into this? The alternative facts lot aren't gonna let you get away with that!

Nicky Butt was never deployed to mark Steve MacManaman out of a game. United never played defensively. We never dropped points against lower league sides. We never made Morten Gamst Pedersen or David f'n Bentley look amazing with s-t defending.

Nope. Never happened. We beat everyone outside the top four 4-0 and got 100 points every season.

 

[Ban]

LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?

Just seen this gem. Take a bow son.

 

[bosnian_red]

I asked about memorable performances. You didn't provide any.

Fortunately for me I can remember some. Smashing West Brom 4-0. Beating Stoke 5-0. Beating Spurs 5-2. The Champions League semi against Arsenal. Fulham 3-0. The Tevez cupped ears game against City.

However, a lot of the games were a bit meh. Even the Macheda match which we all loved was awful. One of the reasons it was so memorable was because we gave up a lead, played rubbish, Ronaldo dragged us back into it and then Macheda bagged at the death. The Sunderland away game a bit later was even worse but we still won.

You are acting like we easily beat every inferior side but that's just not true.

As I said, I'm not saying Mourinho's United are as good as Fergie's. That's obviously not the case. However, you're behaving like United under Fergie was like Barcelona under Pep. That's just not the case.

I'm not doing that, and I'm not disputing that we were very inconsistent in our performances. There were constant threads on the caf about zombie passing in his latter years, United in 08/09 were built off having the best defence in Europe. There's nothing wrong with that. What I'm saying the difference is, is that we were still dominant. We still outplayed most teams we played, we still deservedly won all those games. We still always set out to attack, wasn't always free flowing, there were plenty of games where we had to grind out results. But I'm saying that's completely different to Mourinho sitting back, home or away, against most tough teams. There are times where it's needed. Fergie did it and grinded out a 0-0 away to Barca 10 years ago (though at the same time, we still created more and showed more attacking intent in that game, then we did away to Sevilla this season).

Fergie finally became consistent in Europe because he became more pragmatic and found the perfect balance. He wouldn't park the bus, but he'd make the games a grind and often led to boring away games and then going for it at home. That's the key. Going for it. That's what we all thought Mourinho would have done against fecking Sevilla, but instead, he was overly cautious and we lost, so that's all on him. But the issue for me and many others, is that this wasn't a one off game. It was standard Mourinho tactics that ended up costing us. So it's not a case of accepting a one game loss and moving on and expecting things to be different next time. I fully expect the next time for him to use the same tactics, regardless of opponent. And that's why I want him gone.