Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Dobbs]

Nope but you're doing your damndest to ignore any stats that don't fit your agenda. And you've been presented with a whole lot of them at this stage. When you post stats it's crucial evidence that Mourinho is failing badly which can't be ignored. When other people do the same with stats to oppose that opinion they're just "quoting stats at you"

Now you can't disagree with Mourinho's big game approach without having an agenda.

Just read Bordens post man. We all know Fergie lost plenty of big games.

 

[SirAF]

Warning: Tinfoil Theory (so don't take it too seriously)

I don't have the stats to back me up on this but I believe Jose got a lot more defensive against top sides away from home after the 5-0 drubbing at the Nou Camp in 2010. That was after the best start by a manager in Madrid's history (or something like that). He said after that game that he felt 'impotent'. In the eyes of so many people that defeat and Barca's dominance during his time in Spain was the great triumph of all that's good in football against so called horrible nasty defensive Mourinho. It doesn't help that people loathe him. The only ones who support him are his players, ex-players and the fans of his current team. The amount of sneering I read about him in the press afterwards was unbelievable. They'd been waiting for years, waiting for him to slip up so they could stick it to him.

Not one major revered figure in football seem to have anything positive to say about him or his style of play: Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Charlton and so on. He really is football's version of the Miltonic Satan and he seems to encourage it - the eye poke, hounding referee Frisk, Eva Carniero, taunting Wenger. I wonder if post 2010 he decided to fashion his teams as anti-Pep, anti-Barca - but how far can this really take you? Klopp, Conte, Poch and Pep are his main competitors and three of them have been influenced by Bielsa and that whole school of football who play very differently to Mourinho. He has an awful record against Klopp and Guardiola.

It seems weird but I think he needs some self belief. He can't keep this up - this anti-football approach can't work away from home against the very best teams. Maybe he feels he can never match Guardiola's style so he chooses this instead. Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven and all that.

Edit: Funnily enough the one great ex-player who like Jose is Maradona and he was no saint either.

I love that line

 

[Theonas]

Warning: Tinfoil Theory (so don't take it too seriously)

I don't have the stats to back me up on this but I believe Jose got a lot more defensive against top sides away from home after the 5-0 drubbing at the Nou Camp in 2010. That was after the best start by a manager in Madrid's history (or something like that). He said after that game that he felt 'impotent'. In the eyes of so many people that defeat and Barca's dominance during his time in Spain was the great triumph of all that's good in football against so called horrible nasty defensive Mourinho. It doesn't help that people loathe him. The only ones who support him are his players, ex-players and the fans of his current team. The amount of sneering I read about him in the press afterwards was unbelievable. They'd been waiting for years, waiting for him to slip up so they could stick it to him.

Not one major revered figure in football seem to have anything positive to say about him or his style of play: Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Charlton and so on. He really is football's version of the Miltonic Satan and he seems to encourage it - the eye poke, hounding referee Frisk, Eva Carniero, taunting Wenger. I wonder if post 2010 he decided to fashion his teams as anti-Pep, anti-Barca - but how far can this really take you? Klopp, Conte, Poch and Pep are his main competitors and three of them have been influenced by Bielsa and that whole school of football who play very differently to Mourinho. He has an awful record against Klopp and Guardiola.

It seems weird but I think he needs some self belief. He can't keep this up - this anti-football approach can't work away from home against the very best teams. Maybe he feels he can never match Guardiola's style so he chooses this instead. Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven and all that.

Edit: Funnily enough the one great ex-player who like Jose is Maradona and he was no saint either.

Nothing tinfoil about this. I agree with most of it in fact. He has come across too eager to defend his tactics and try and convince us that others are defensive too. It is not exactly controversial to argue that he feels under appreciated because of his approach. I don't remember him before coming out saying what he did about Liverpool on Saturday and trying to blade them for being defensive. He used to thrive and enjoy the role of the spoiler much more in the past. As you said, nobody in football respects him outside of his ex players and clubs where he achieved things they weren't used to, as much as anyone likes to pretend they don't care, it is impossible. People in every walk of life care about their image and the reputation they have and football managers are no different. Since Real, he has been stuck between doing what he knows how to do and living with it being not as respected and appreciated as he would like, and trying to change his ways only to feel outside of his comfort zone.

 

[Dobbs]

Warning: Tinfoil Theory (so don't take it too seriously)

I don't have the stats to back me up on this but I believe Jose got a lot more defensive against top sides away from home after the 5-0 drubbing at the Nou Camp in 2010. That was after the best start by a manager in Madrid's history (or something like that). He said after that game that he felt 'impotent'. In the eyes of so many people that defeat and Barca's dominance during his time in Spain was the great triumph of all that's good in football against so called horrible nasty defensive Mourinho. It doesn't help that people loathe him. The only ones who support him are his players, ex-players and the fans of his current team. The amount of sneering I read about him in the press afterwards was unbelievable. They'd been waiting for years, waiting for him to slip up so they could stick it to him.

Not one major revered figure in football seem to have anything positive to say about him or his style of play: Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Charlton and so on. He really is football's version of the Miltonic Satan and he seems to encourage it - the eye poke, hounding referee Frisk, Eva Carniero, taunting Wenger. I wonder if post 2010 he decided to fashion his teams as anti-Pep, anti-Barca - but how far can this really take you? Klopp, Conte, Poch and Pep are his main competitors and three of them have been influenced by Bielsa and that whole school of football who play very differently to Mourinho. He has an awful record against Klopp and Guardiola.

It seems weird but I think he needs some self belief. He can't keep this up - this anti-football approach can't work away from home against the very best teams. Maybe he feels he can never match Guardiola's style so he chooses this instead. Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven and all that.

Edit: Funnily enough the one great ex-player who like Jose is Maradona and he was no saint either.

Good stuff that. I said something similar in an earlier, inferior post.

 

[Bruno Marques]

I would love to see what would most of the ppl say if Mourinho made United play "open chest" football at anfield, push forward got countered with those Liverpool fast units and lose 3 or 4 nill.

I think this thread would be something like "we played attacking football and got hammered. We love those tactics. xoxo mourinho"

 

[Borden]

I would love to see what would most of the ppl say if Mourinho made United play "open chest" football at anfield, push forward got countered with those Liverpool fast units and lose 3 or 4 nill.

I think this thread would be something like "we played attacking football and got hammered. We love those tactics. xoxo mourinho"

Yes, as we all know there's no middle ground between parking the bus and not even trying to score, and going all kamikaze and losing 4-0.

 

[Haddock]

I love that line

Afraid I can't claim that. It's from Paradise Lost.
The original lines are:
"Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n"

 

[Theonas]

I would love to see what would most of the ppl say if Mourinho made United play "open chest" football at anfield, push forward got countered with those Liverpool fast units and lose 3 or 4 nill.

I think this thread would be something like "we played attacking football and got hammered. We love those tactics. xoxo mourinho"

No, he would be rightfully criticized for not being able to set up a team that can compete without parking an aircraft. You know, like so many other managers out there. I have to ask, is anyone holding this opinion that playing in a non cowardly fashion = losing familiar with any football outside of the Mourinho universe?

 

[Bruno Marques]

Yes, as we all know there's no middle ground between parking the bus and not even trying to score, and going all kamikaze and losing 4-0.

Did United parked the bus or where they pushed back? United had serious difficulties stopping Liverpool attacks and they should push forward like headless chickens when they got the ball? Who would cover the liverpool counters then? Herrera was playing wonderfull, Smalling it's what it is.

No, he would be rightfully criticized for not being able to set up a team that can compete without parking an aircraft. You know, like so many other managers out there. I have to ask, is anyone holding this opinion that playing in a non cowardly fashion = losing familiar with any football outside of the Mourinho universe?

No mate, we are all familiar that united has the best team in the world and should go to Anfield dominate and smash Liverpool even if 3 of the best units weren't available or at full health

 

[SirAF]

Afraid I can't claim that. It's from Paradise Lost.
The original lines are:
"Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n"

Cheers!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

If stats collected over a few years are very fair, why are the stats you keep referring to only going back as far as Chelsea's 5-3 loss at Spurs?

Not that strange since the current streak (no wins, 50/50 draws/losses) begins with said match. The point, if there is one, is that it's a streak.

His full record for the two full seasons of his second stint (T6 away):

Ars D 0-0
Cit W 0-1
Liv W 0-2
Eve L 1-0
Tot D 1-1

Finished 3rd

Cit D 1-1
Utd D 1-1
Liv W 1-2
Tot L 5-3
Ars D 0-0

Finished 1st

 

[Santoryo]

I love that line

I also love that line

 

[SirAF]

I also love that line

 

[Santoryo]

I would love to see what would most of the ppl say if Mourinho made United play "open chest" football at anfield, push forward got countered with those Liverpool fast units and lose 3 or 4 nill.

I think this thread would be something like "we played attacking football and got hammered. We love those tactics. xoxo mourinho"

So there is simply no middle ground with some of you.

And as far as I can tell and definitely for me personally I was expecting us to play defensive, sit back and play on the counter. I'm sure that what most people expected, even the media knew that our approach would be defensive but the game was still hyped because we were expected to be dangerous on the counter.

However Mourinho set us up to kill any chance to play football and wasn't interested to do so. He pushed our winger so far back, Lukaku completely isolated to the point we couldn't initiate any sort of counter attack even when we got the ball. It was all hopeless football when it comes to attack or when we had the ball.

The game was awful, the mindset was terrible. We had no intent to play football whatsoever.

 

[Santoryo]

No, he would be rightfully criticized for not being able to set up a team that can compete without parking an aircraft. You know, like so many other managers out there. I have to ask, is anyone holding this opinion that playing in a non cowardly fashion = losing familiar with any football outside of the Mourinho universe?

Some gems being dropped in this thread

 

[dichinero]

The game was awful, the mindset was terrible. We had no intent to play football whatsoever.

Let me do you a favour. Just accept that some fans think that it's perfectly fine for an expensively assembled squad managed by a big name to set out to play a game of football like that. Listening to Yorke and Schmeichel, I couldn't help but feel embarrassed by what I consider crap we served up.
However doubtful, I hope it all ends but you have to accept that some might actually just enjoy it.

 

[SirAF]

Let me do you a favour. Just accept that some fans think that it's perfectly fine for an expensively assembled squad managed by a big name to set out to play a game of football like that. Listening to Yorke and Schmeichel, I couldn't help but feel embarrassed by what I consider crap we served up.
However doubtful, I hope it all ends but you have to accept that some might actually just enjoy it.

Now we’re on the same page!

 

[Leftback99]

Despite setting up defensively maybe we aren't as good as some think and Liverpool aren't as bad.

In all the moaning, i'm yet to see anyone come up with a convincing line up from player's available that would have taken the game to Liverpool who are dominant at home.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Well Spurs have just proven that you can have a defensive performance against a superior opponent away from while still playing football. This thread has been trying to convince me that parking the bus is the only way to get a result against 'difficult' games like Liverpool and S'ton

 

[dichinero]

Well Spurs have just proven that you can have a defensive performance against a superior opponent away from while still playing football. This thread has been trying to convince me that parking the bus is the only way to get a result against 'difficult' games like Liverpool and S'ton

Did it without some key players too. But hey, Real Madrid have got nothing on Liverpool.

 

[Theonas]

Well Spurs have just proven that you can have a defensive performance against a superior opponent away from while still playing football. This thread has been trying to convince me that parking the bus is the only way to get a result against 'difficult' games like Liverpool and S'ton

There are a gazillion examples of that. I understand though that you needed to point it out because as you say, there are some who seriously suggest that it's either playing footballing or getting humiliated. You have to marvel at some point at Mourinho's ability to construct this narrative. The man is a PR genius!

 

[Dobbs]

Despite setting up defensively maybe we aren't as good as some think and Liverpool aren't as bad.

In all the moaning, i'm yet to see anyone come up with a convincing line up from player's available that would have taken the game to Liverpool who are dominant at home.

The one that played? With a dash of Mata.

 

[el3mel]

I was disappointed during the match that I didn't find the meltdown I expected so I can laugh it. Now I'm relieved.

 

[Theonas]

Despite setting up defensively maybe we aren't as good as some think and Liverpool aren't as bad.

In all the moaning, i'm yet to see anyone come up with a convincing line up from player's available that would have taken the game to Liverpool who are dominant at home.

Oh yes because when you go to a restaurant and you get served a pile of shite, your immediate reaction is "hmm let's see how I can make a better meal with the resources the chef has". If any fan had the qualification to build a team of the level we are talking about, they would be getting paid few million quid a year for it.

 

[notcool]

Well Spurs have just proven that you can have a defensive performance against a superior opponent away from while still playing football. This thread has been trying to convince me that parking the bus is the only way to get a result against 'difficult' games like Liverpool and S'ton

The more chances both teams have the more likely it is one will lose. The less chances teams have the more likely it will be a draw. The right strategy depends on how much you want to risk defeat.

 

[breakout67]

Feck me some people are idiots. They are bringing up the Tottenham vs Madrid game when the personnel and tactics are completely different.

Forget that Tottenham had 2 losses and 1 draw against Liverpool last season, because Real Madrid are better than Liverpool so Spurs would easily beat them because thats how football works.

Real Betis are clearly a better team than Tottenham since they beat Madrid. Mourinho should be watching the Real Betis tapes, not Tottenham.

 

[Dobbs]

Feck me some people are idiots. They are bringing up the Tottenham vs Madrid game when the personnel and tactics are completely different.

Forget that Tottenham had 2 losses and 1 draw against Liverpool last season, because Real Madrid are better than Liverpool so Spurs would easily beat them because thats how football works.

Real Betis are clearly a better team than Tottenham since they beat Madrid. Mourinho should be watching the Real Betis tapes, not Tottenham.

That's exactly why they're bringing it up.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well Spurs have just proven that you can have a defensive performance against a superior opponent away from while still playing football. This thread has been trying to convince me that parking the bus is the only way to get a result against 'difficult' games like Liverpool and S'ton

Now you’re just making shit up...

The constant fecking moaning is tiresome enough, no need to spice it up with flat out bullshit.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On a side note, regarding the Spurs game, can anyone remember the absolute fecking hysterics on here when Mourinho last finished a match with four central defenders on the pitch?

 

[Bruno Marques]

Let's all praise Spurs for that amazing striker, Varane. Clap Clap Clap

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Despite setting up defensively maybe we aren't as good as some think and Liverpool aren't as bad.

In all the moaning, i'm yet to see anyone come up with a convincing line up from player's available that would have taken the game to Liverpool who are dominant at home.

352 would have been a good start I would have though. It would have at least given Lukaku a partner. He could have sat back to his hearts content with at least having that option of Lukaku and Martial to do something.

I was actually really surprised he didn’t go down that path and I actually thought seeing his line up that is how he was going to go.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Now you’re just making shit up...

The constant fecking moaning is tiresome enough, no need to spice it up with flat out bullshit.

There are numerous posts, including quoting mine in the previous page where every complaint about our Liverpool and S'ton performance was met by 'so you want us to lose?' Some even said that if Newcastle had parked the bus against S'ton on Saturday, they would have won. I'm suprised someone has not said the same about Spurs

 

[fellaini's barber]

Feck me some people are idiots. They are bringing up the Tottenham vs Madrid game when the personnel and tactics are completely different.

Forget that Tottenham had 2 losses and 1 draw against Liverpool last season, because Real Madrid are better than Liverpool so Spurs would easily beat them because thats how football works.

Real Betis are clearly a better team than Tottenham since they beat Madrid. Mourinho should be watching the Real Betis tapes, not Tottenham.

No need for the name calling, I'd like to think we're all adults. Tactics were different because Poch didn't set up his team to camp in our half and not bother to attack against the best team in the world away, which is our go to tactic against even half decent teams away from home.

 

[ti vu]

Well Spurs have just proven that you can have a defensive performance against a superior opponent away from while still playing football. This thread has been trying to convince me that parking the bus is the only way to get a result against 'difficult' games like Liverpool and S'ton

How important is this game in Madrid's point of view? Would they lose their shite had they lost? Would they try to seek moral victory? Or they simply see it as one of those days and they're not in best form and as long as they're comfortably qualified for next round, it's not the end of the day?

Back to L'pool. It is one and only important fixture in several seasons where they couldn't challenge for anything. For many of them, had they lost it or drew, they would get all kind of excuses to get the moral victory. There is no end during the season in case they win this fixture.

Can you simply compare teams going into different type of games without considering the contrast mentality?

 

[Treble]

How important is this game in Madrid's point of view? Would they lose their shite had they lose? Would they try to seek moral victory? Or they simply see it as one of those days and they're not in best form and as long as they're comfortably qualified for next round, it's not the en did the day?

Back to L'pool. It is one and only important fixture in several seasons where they couldn't challenge for anything. For many of them, had they lost it or drew, they would get all kind of excuses to get the moral victory. There is no end during the season in case they win.

Can you compare teams going into games with this contrast mentality?

That's a good point: the game vs Liverpool was much more important for both teams than the game between Real and Spurs. Still, Real are pretty good even when they are not at their best. I wouldn't completely dismiss the comparisions. But I agree that both games were different and we should be wary of drawing conclusions.

 

[ti vu]

That's a good point: the game vs Liverpool was much more important for both teams than the game between Real and Spurs. Still, Real are pretty good even when they are not at their best. I wouldn't completely dismiss the comparisions. But I agree that both games were different and we should be wary of drawing conclusions.

I saw me in the other thread giving Tottenham their deserved prop. I am not dismissing Tottenham's positive approach.

I just try to put thing in perspective, as football is emotional game. It's not black and white stocompare different type of games. Need more context than simply comparing teams' quality.

 

[fellaini's barber]

How important is this game in Madrid's point of view? Would they lose their shite had they lost? Would they try to seek moral victory? Or they simply see it as one of those days and they're not in best form and as long as they're comfortably qualified for next round, it's not the end of the day?

Back to L'pool. It is one and only important fixture in several seasons where they couldn't challenge for anything. For many of them, had they lost it or drew, they would get all kind of excuses to get the moral victory. There is no end during the season in case they win this fixture.

Can you simply compare teams going into different type of games without considering the contrast mentality?

We might not want to admit it, but we all know how Jose would have approached this game yesterday if it were us

 

[ti vu]

We might not want to admit it, but we all know how Jose would have approached this game yesterday if it were us

If I can admit, can you admit we have every chance doing as good result wise? Let's not pretend Real Madrid is in unbeatable form or getting their big game form in this kind of game when they need every bit of their strength to play catch up with Barcelona in the league.

Edit: by the way, the previous question stand, yet to be answered: is Tottenham Madrid qualified as big, important game in Madrid point of view?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't understand the extreme views taken by those defending Jose.

I've not seen a single poster suggest or claim we should have went to Anfield and smashed them as if we were Barcelona 2010.

It's about the intent to attack and always has been.

I have no problems with a counter attacking approach. Provided we do some counter attacking.

 

[Womp]

I don't understand the extreme views taken by those defending Jose.

I've not seen a single poster suggest or claim we should have went to Anfield and smashed them as if we were Barcelona 2010.

It's about the intent to attack and always has been.

I have no problems with a counter attacking approach. Provided we do some counter attacking.

Which is what is so fecking tedious, we did try to counter attack. If he wanted to shut up shop he could have played Lingard instead of Martial - as he's far better off the ball and defensively. He could of replaced Young or Valencia without Blind who's one of the most reliable defenders in our team.

We started the game off getting forward and we were trying to play, it was only when it became obvious the players couldn't string two passes together that the players naturally dropped deeper.

People need some perspective, the game was a shitshow for us because of the midfield battle. With Pogba out, we were missing the only midfielder we had capable of carrying the ball forward - also a player who thrives being able to outmuscle players who try to press him, creating space for others. With Fellaini out we missed a presence who could give us an option when trying to play over their press. These reasons are why we couldn't get over the press. When you don't have a player confident getting away from the press, a player capable of carrying the ball forward or a player who's large enough to overcome the press - you're going to struggle. It's why we couldn't get out of the middle of the pitch. Especially when Liverpool outnumbered us in midfield as it was 2v3, constantly able to suffocate our midfielders.

We had Matic partnered with Herrera, both players renowned for their defensive capabilities (although that's a bit of an insult to Matic)

Was Jose cautious? Of course. Could he have been more adventurous? Absolutely. That being said, he didn't go to Anfield for a draw, he wanted to win.