Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

Your stance

  • Top manager in charge of a major rebuild. Needs more time and/or money.

    Votes: 684 43.8%

  • Made improvements but we've stagnated. Sack him if we drop out of top 4

    Votes: 377 24.1%

  • He's not the right fit. Sack him and get someone else who can get more out of our squad

    Votes: 502 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,563
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

“When is that? Next week? I’m not thinking yet about it,” he claimed. “Manchester City is not important for me, what is important for me is that since the moment we left the first position and went to second, we stayed there for the whole of the season.
“We deserved to finish second in spite of what you can say, the criticism you make. You say third, fourth, fifth, sixth are better than us but they are not because we have more points than them.
“We are going to fight every match. Seven matches to go, we are going to fight to finish second.
“I think we have 10 more points than last season, something like that. We have more goals scored, we have less goals conceded, we finish sixth, we’re going to try to finish second, so the season is not as bad as you try to make it.”
 
Greck said:
Or maybe the fans putting pressure on Jose has forced him to play more fluid football. Previously some would have us believe we couldn't play like we did in the first half without 4 new world class signings. We showed flashes of greatness with the same crop of players many insisted were not good enough
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There's definitely signs in the last two games that he is emphasizing quicker build up and more play in between the lines with better transitions and working on our attacking movement now. After the Brighton match he was frustrated that we weren't doing that but at least we know that he and the team are working on it behind the scenes. Unfortunately it'll take longer than 2 games to get it perfect because this team has been drilled in a completely different way for the last 18 months or so and it isn't easy to change that overnight. The real question is can we keep a high level for the whole 90 minutes and can we replicate this against the top teams? We have a habit of either starting games slow and picking it up from there or starting strong and then taking our foot of the gas. We have an issue with complacency in this team because we should be going for the kill especially at home but we ease off and let teams back into it. Whether we can play like this against other top teams especially away from home also remains to be seen but we have the capability to do so.
 
abdo99 said:
There's definitely signs in the last two games that he is emphasizing quicker build up and more play in between the lines with better transitions and working on our attacking movement now. After the Brighton match he was frustrated that we weren't doing that but at least we know that he and the team are working on it behind the scenes. Unfortunately it'll take longer than 2 games to get it perfect because this team has been drilled in a completely different way for the last 18 months or so and it isn't easy to change that overnight. The real question is can we keep a high level for the whole 90 minutes and can we replicate this against the top teams? We have a habit of either starting games slow and picking it up from there or starting strong and then taking our foot of the gas. We have an issue with complacency in this team because we should be going for the kill especially at home but we ease off and let teams back into it. Whether we can play like this against other top teams especially away from home also remains to be seen but we have the capability to do so.
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Have we had similar halves before during Jose's time here? I'd be overjoyed if the first half against Swansea was a statement of intent from him, but I keep having a nagging feeling that we've seen similar performances before and nothing really has changed. 20 minutes of Everton away, perhaps?

Unfortunately the next match is against City. As much as I think the team badly needs to continue getting used to this sort of style, it'd possibly result in a spanking given that they've only had a few weeks (at most) of training in this style. I'm also not sure if the players' current fitness levels are up to it; they seemed to tire quickly against Swansea.
 
Same people who slate Mourinho's tumescent football used to praise the bore fest served by their own LvG.
 
R o o K said:
Same people who slate Mourinho's tumescent football used to praise the bore fest served by their own LvG.
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Attempting to paint Jose critics as LVG lovers makes no sense.

Obviously there are exceptions, but from what I see, most of the posters comparing the two managers tend to make the following general points:

1. Jose has us 2nd in the league, he's performing much much better than LVG (results-wise, objectively true and to argue otherwise is nonsensical)
2. Jose's football is barely less tumescent than LVG's (debatable but Jose still comes off slightly better)
3. Can't see what Jose is building, at least LVG had a clear direction / footballing philosophy (debatable but there's a valid point there)
4. LVG's philosophy was more progressive / modern than Jose's (debatable but there's a valid point there)

I have yet to see even a vocal minority claiming that LVG's football was good to watch, let alone making that claim while criticising Jose for tumescent football.

Edited: for clarity
 
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It would be nice if everyone actually got behind the manager and the team. If you can’t see progress being made, then you must have erased the LVG and Moyes years from your memory.
Mourinho is going to be the manager for at least another season. Fair enough, if we don’t kick on and play better next season, there is justification for criticism.
He started with a squad that was way behind the City squad Pep inherited. City have added twice as many players since.
Jose really is the best chance we have right now to beat City next season.
 
Rash Decision said:
Attempting to paint Jose critics as LVG lovers makes no sense.

Obviously there are exceptions, but from what I see, the vast majority of comparisons with LVG fall into these categories:

1. Jose has us 2nd in the league, he's performing much much better than LVG (results-wise, objectively true and to argue otherwise is nonsensical)
2. Jose's football is barely less tumescent than LVG's (debatable but Jose still comes off slightly better)
3. Can't see what Jose is building, at least LVG had a clear direction / footballing philosophy (debatable but there's a valid point there)
4. LVG's philosophy was more progressive / modern than Jose's (debatable but there's a valid point there)

I have yet to see even a vocal minority claiming that LVG's football was good to watch, let alone making that claim while criticising Jose for tumescent football.
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Jose's football is way less tumescent then LVG's however you spin it.
Maybe LVG had a direction but I for one didn't see any. And it's pretty strange that you claim his philosophy was apparently more modern and progressive since the football we played was horrible and there was no philosophy or direction, certainly not a progressive one.
 
Ban said:
Jose's football is way less tumescent then LVG's however you spin it.
Maybe LVG had a direction but I for one didn't see any. And it's pretty strange that you claim his philosophy was apparently more modern and progressive since the football we played was horrible and there was no philosophy or direction, certainly not a progressive one.
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I think you misread my post. I was disagreeing with another poster who labelled all Jose critics as LVG lovers, and to make my point I generalised the most common comparisons made between the two managers that I'd seen.
 
Rash Decision said:
I think you misread my post. I was disagreeing with another poster who labelled all Jose critics as LVG lovers, and to make my point I generalised the most common comparisons made between the two managers that I'd seen.
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Ups. Sorry then. :)
I must have read it too quickly.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
It would be nice if everyone actually got behind the manager and the team. If you can’t see progress being made, then you must have erased the LVG and Moyes years from your memory.
Mourinho is going to be the manager for at least another season. Fair enough, if we don’t kick on and play better next season, there is justification for criticism.
He started with a squad that was way behind the City squad Pep inherited. City have added twice as many players since.
Jose really is the best chance we have right now to beat City next season.
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I'm really interested in this statement. Next season can take us forward or backwards, no one knows really but Jose's history does not offer much hope. Everyone is going to spend loads next season, even stingy Liverpudlians are going big. It will boil down to who gets the best from the new signings and current players.
 
Rash Decision said:
Attempting to paint Jose critics as LVG lovers makes no sense.

Obviously there are exceptions, but from what I see, the vast majority of comparisons with LVG fall into these categories:

1. Jose has us 2nd in the league, he's performing much much better than LVG (results-wise, objectively true and to argue otherwise is nonsensical)
2. Jose's football is barely less tumescent than LVG's (debatable but Jose still comes off slightly better)
3. Can't see what Jose is building, at least LVG had a clear direction / footballing philosophy (debatable but there's a valid point there)
4. LVG's philosophy was more progressive / modern than Jose's (debatable but there's a valid point there)

I have yet to see even a vocal minority claiming that LVG's football was good to watch, let alone making that claim while criticising Jose for tumescent football.
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I think LVG's first pre-season tour and at end of the first season when we have Liverpool, City, Spurs and Chelsea games after March and they were very good to watch. I thought we were progressing so well before LVG's 2nd season but injuries and the transfer window has impacted heavily on LVG's 2nd season and regressed. Until Lecister City they defeated us 5-3 and LVG went for pragmatics style because he felt that he doesn't have quality players to play the system he wants them to play against outside top 10 teams in the league.

With LVG, we have a clear vision and knew that we need a better player that suit his system perfectly but Jose, I don't know, for all money he can spend whenever he want but will play reactive games and defend and change tactical depending on their opponents.

I see Jose as more of stability coach and will rebuild our squad and lay a foundation for the future, he laid a foundation for Real Madrid's La Decima and Chelsea. Once he left us as a good squad so hopefully, the new manager will take us to next level since we have a lot of good players the likes of Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku, De Gea, Rashford, Bailly, Mata, Herrera and the new addition players will happen during years while Jose remain manager.

Jose is what we hoped LVG would turn out like that but with a bad transfer window. LVG added new 12 players but none of them included in starting XI against Swansea last weekend.
I think in the alternative world where LVG had really good two transfer windows summer so our footballing will improve with LVG at the helm because of the system he wants to play like, high intensity, press and play the high line, similar to Pep Guardiola's system.
I felt LVG could have done more better in the transfer window so he won't be sacked at end of the season in his last season at United.
 
Sensei said:
I'm really interested in this statement. Next season can take us forward or backwards, no one knows really but Jose's history does not offer much hope. Everyone is going to spend loads next season, even stingy Liverpudlians are going big. It will boil down to who gets the best from the new signings and current players.
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Because Jose has been there before. When Peps Barca were apparently the best thing since sliced bread, he disrupted that by taking Real Madrid to the title.
Starting next season with a.n.other manager, is more likely to take us back to square one.
Liverpool will do what Liverpool have done for the past 30 years and cock it up, so I wouldn’t worry about them.
 
deafepl said:
I think LVG's first pre-season tour and at end of the first season when we have Liverpool, City, Spurs and Chelsea games after March and they were very good to watch. I thought we were progressing so well before LVG's 2nd season but injuries and the transfer window has impacted heavily on LVG's 2nd season and regressed. Until Lecister City they defeated us 5-3 and LVG went for pragmatics style because he felt that he doesn't have quality players to play the system he wants them to play against outside top 10 teams in the league.

With LVG, we have a clear vision and knew that we need a better player that suit his system perfectly but Jose, I don't know, for all money he can spend whenever he want but will play reactive games and defend and change tactical depending on their opponents.

I see Jose as more of stability coach and will rebuild our squad and lay a foundation for the future, he laid a foundation for Real Madrid's La Decima and Chelsea. Once he left us as a good squad so hopefully, the new manager will take us to next level since we have a lot of good players the likes of Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku, De Gea, Rashford, Bailly, Mata, Herrera and the new addition players will happen during years while Jose remain manager.

Jose is what we hoped LVG would turn out like that but with a bad transfer window. LVG added new 12 players but none of them included in starting XI against Swansea last weekend.
I think in the alternative world where LVG had really good two transfer windows summer so our footballing will improve with LVG at the helm because of the system he wants to play like, high intensity, press and play the high line, similar to Pep Guardiola's system.
I felt LVG could have done more better in the transfer window so he won't be sacked at end of the season in his last season at United.
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You summed up perfectly. Jose will not be here for that long and what he is doing is what lvg should have done, leave a solid base. Next manager will surely taking over a much stronger squad. So at least that's a plus.
 
AshRK said:
You summed up perfectly. Jose will not be here for that long and what he is doing is what lvg should have done, leave a solid base. Next manager will surely taking over a much stronger squad. So at least that's a plus.
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THB I don't care about Jose's style of play if it means taking us back to top level, bring stability and a lot of good players, that's it.
 
Rash Decision said:
Attempting to paint Jose critics as LVG lovers makes no sense.

Obviously there are exceptions, but from what I see, the vast majority of comparisons with LVG fall into these categories:

1. Jose has us 2nd in the league, he's performing much much better than LVG (results-wise, objectively true and to argue otherwise is nonsensical)
2. Jose's football is barely less tumescent than LVG's (debatable but Jose still comes off slightly better)
3. Can't see what Jose is building, at least LVG had a clear direction / footballing philosophy (debatable but there's a valid point there)
4. LVG's philosophy was more progressive / modern than Jose's (debatable but there's a valid point there)

I have yet to see even a vocal minority claiming that LVG's football was good to watch, let alone making that claim while criticising Jose for tumescent football.
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What?

1. Yes I agree it's pointless to argue. Results define trophies.

2. Completely disagree. The LVG days were a complete snooze fest. Boring possession football and those were the days when I thought that any opposition could beat us at Old Trafford. Now that Mourinho is here, I look forward to the games every week now, and Old Trafford is a fortress again. How you can say that Jose's football is comparable to LVG's is beyond me.

3. And pray tell what LVG's clear direction is? I used to hate the word "philosophy" when LVG was in charge because I had no idea what he meant by that. If his philosophy was to retain ball possession in our own half for most parts of the game, I'd much rather have kept Moyes instead. With Jose, we can the confidence oozing back into the players and Old Trafford. Jose has already created a solid spine of Lukaku - Pogba - Bailly/Jones- DDG, and I would give him another two transfer windows before judging his overall work.

4. Don't forget when Jose took over from LVG, there was plenty of deadwood and our winning mentality was practically wiped out. I'm satisfied with what Jose has done thus far, and it's clear for everyone to see that Jose is prioritising results for now. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have big plans for the club once we start winning major trophies again.
 
It'll be interesting how he sets up at against city. Last season he said many times about how other teams have advantage with fixtures and the preparation time. This game we have 1 full week to prepare whereas City will play on Wednesday, which means they will have 2 and half days to prepare, not to mention they will be playing against Liverpool which is one of the toughest away ground.
 
The games against City and Spurs will define whether the season is decent or very good. Not losing vs City and winning vs Spurs will make it very good, imo.
 
Micky Targaryen said:
What?

1. Yes I agree it's pointless to argue. Results define trophies.

2. Completely disagree. The LVG days were a complete snooze fest. Boring possession football and those were the days when I thought that any opposition could beat us at Old Trafford. Now that Mourinho is here, I look forward to the games every week now, and Old Trafford is a fortress again. How you can say that Jose's football is comparable to LVG's is beyond me.

3. And pray tell what LVG's clear direction is? I used to hate the word "philosophy" when LVG was in charge because I had no idea what he meant by that. If his philosophy was to retain ball possession in our own half for most parts of the game, I'd much rather have kept Moyes instead. With Jose, we can the confidence oozing back into the players and Old Trafford. Jose has already created a solid spine of Lukaku - Pogba - Bailly/Jones- DDG, and I would give him another two transfer windows before judging his overall work.

4. Don't forget when Jose took over from LVG, there was plenty of deadwood and our winning mentality was practically wiped out. I'm satisfied with what Jose has done thus far, and it's clear for everyone to see that Jose is prioritising results for now. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have big plans for the club once we start winning major trophies again.
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I've edited my post to make it clearer. The post was meant to disagree with another poster who claimed that Jose critics = LVG lovers.


These are my views FWIW:

1. No disagreement.

2. Generally agree. Under LVG I usually felt we were vulnerable to a sucker punch despite our superior possession, Jose has definitely given me more confidence that we wouldn't be beaten, at least. As for the entertainment factor, the average Jose game to me is a better watch than the average LVG game, but the few highs of LVG's time (specifically the brief run when we trounced Spurs, City, Liverpool) were better than the best that Jose has offered so far. Completely subjective and I respect your opinion.

3. I don't have this allergic reaction to the word "philosophy", because every manager worth his salt has one. Jose's philosophy revolves around controlling games without the ball; LVG's was based on control with the ball. IMO LVG's failure was more down to abysmal execution and player management than his core philosophy, which probably just needed some adjustments.

4. I'm satisfied with Jose's results and recruitment so far. I'm not sure if I have confidence in him to continue building for the long term because so far our players' performances over the season have suggested to me that his coaching has been below par. I don't believe it's sustainable to keep buying better players to compensate for inadequate coaching. That said, he deserves another season, my thoughts on him don't matter a jot, and he has plenty of time to win over his doubters. The first half of the Swansea match was a good start :)

Btw, what did you mean by "big plans"?
 
Bring in LVG for one more game so fans can get a reality check. That poll would change to 100% first option
 
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LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ :lol: & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?
 
Return of the Manc said:
LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ :lol: & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Return of the Manc said:
LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ :lol: & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?
Click to expand...
Oh dear, no white text?
 
Actually, regarding LVG, one thing that was clear was what he was trying to achieve . He wanted us to retain possession, move the ball rapidly searching for an opening and take advantage of this opening when opposition players get moved around because of our ball movement.

Now, he was not able to achieve it, because this system obviously required highly skilled technical players and we had Schneiderlin, Rooney and a past it Schweinsteiger and also because LVG proved quite inept in the transfer market in getting the players he needed to implement his methods. He was more in the Wenger mould, where playing a certain way was more important to him than actual results.

With Mourinho, we have much better record of winning matches and he does set up to not lose. Our results are much better, but his system does not seem to encourage ball playing skills, and even after 2 years we are stuck at just getting past the next match with a favourable result and hoping we reach the next transfer window.

With LVG, we could see Rashford, Lingard and Martial clearly develop an understanding and improve, and we felt excited for next season. We were thinking about what levels they would achieve rather than which shiny new talent we would purchase to end our problems. The system actually encouraged them to play well and why wouldn't it because not matter what, he still emphasized doing things with the ball rather than off it. With Mourinho, we are still stuck at, "if he gets his players next season". I mean, we already have Pogba, Martial, Lukaku, Sanchez. Pogba has been here for two years. I don't see any noticeable improvement in them.

If we mess up in the transfer market, then we are again doomed for another season, because I don't see a whole lot in the present system which encourages our players to reach new levels.

I think, like LVG, Mourinho will have to be replaced (not immediately), but the only thing we will have with us is a excellent set of core players waiting to be taken to the next level. The next manager will have to start from scratch, trying to instill a definite method of play.
 
Return of the Manc said:
LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ :lol: & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?
Click to expand...

One of the worst posts I've read this year
 
Im going to take a break from the Caf whilst I work on my dissertation. That's one of the best posts I have ever seen on here, I think it's a good place to end on :lol:.
 
Return of the Manc said:
LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ :lol: & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?
Click to expand...

That team would have struggled to finish in the top half of the table, possibly even relegation candidates.

The team we have now is dross, you say? Then how do you explain them currently occupying second spot in one of the most competitive leagues in the game?

You need to get some perspective.
 
Return of the Manc said:
LVg had us playing bad 2 years ago but last year he would have had players like Tuenzebe, TFM and god knows who playing in a 352 possibiliy introducting the likes of Chong and Gomes aswell.

Apart from Pogba who moved more to be the starboy of United than purely for Jose & De gea staying- Jose has been a disspoinment to me. Players have been individualyl good but not nesseceraly what was needed in a team.

If LVG had one more season with better midfielders and wingbacks (adding pogba for an example)- the team would look young & refereshed last year

Just for example
De gea?
RWB- Smalling- Blind-Tuenzebe- LWB
TFM-Pogba
Lingard
Rashford- Martial

352 day in and day out and a manager would just need to continue what he had started.

Now we have this dross that is the 4231- players who he has bought can sometimes not be good enought in this formation, whilst replacing players who are meant for other formations and tactics. On top of that players that can do poor performances and not be dropped whilst good performers are dropped without hestitation or subbed. Another collection of individuals on the way with a limited gameplan playing as the underdog to the clubs we need to dominate.

Atleast by this december he should be gone. Licking my lips. Jose has ripped the passion out of the club and is a target for short term glory with players 29years & older.

We had the the oppurtunity to dominate city whilst they rely on players like Silva, Otamendi and Fernandinho at the age od 30+ :lol: & instead we decide to join the lads. Who is replacing Matic next year?
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Really? For a start, Chong & Gomes were 16 & 15 years old at the start of last season. In fact, I don’t believe Chong was even at the club when Van Gaal was fired. Also, Jose bought in Bailly, Lindelof, Lukaku & Pogba. None are even close to being 29 years old. Only Pogba is >24. Plus... never mind, I’m exasperated. Enjoy your lip licking.
 
Are we really arguing which of LVG or Mourinho were better for us? I understand that on basis of their first seasons there can be a debate. But Mourinho's second season has been 100 times better than LVG's second season. We scored 49 goals (!!) in that season whereas we have already scored 60 with 7 games to go. Results are obviously much better.
 
shield said:
Actually, regarding LVG, one thing that was clear was what he was trying to achieve . He wanted us to retain possession, move the ball rapidly searching for an opening and take advantage of this opening when opposition players get moved around because of our ball movement.

Now, he was not able to achieve it, because this system obviously required highly skilled technical players and we had Schneiderlin, Rooney and a past it Schweinsteiger and also because LVG proved quite inept in the transfer market in getting the players he needed to implement his methods. He was more in the Wenger mould, where playing a certain way was more important to him than actual results.

With Mourinho, we have much better record of winning matches and he does set up to not lose. Our results are much better, but his system does not seem to encourage ball playing skills, and even after 2 years we are stuck at just getting past the next match with a favourable result and hoping we reach the next transfer window.

With LVG, we could see Rashford, Lingard and Martial clearly develop an understanding and improve, and we felt excited for next season. We were thinking about what levels they would achieve rather than which shiny new talent we would purchase to end our problems. The system actually encouraged them to play well and why wouldn't it because not matter what, he still emphasized doing things with the ball rather than off it. With Mourinho, we are still stuck at, "if he gets his players next season". I mean, we already have Pogba, Martial, Lukaku, Sanchez. Pogba has been here for two years. I don't see any noticeable improvement in them.

If we mess up in the transfer market, then we are again doomed for another season, because I don't see a whole lot in the present system which encourages our players to reach new levels.

I think, like LVG, Mourinho will have to be replaced (not immediately), but the only thing we will have with us is a excellent set of core players waiting to be taken to the next level. The next manager will have to start from scratch, trying to instill a definite method of play.
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I am sorry but I don’t know which LVG team you were watching but in reality it was the exact opposite of what you stated. There was no excitement in our play and no rays of improvement. The only discernable pattern to our play was that we kept possession. However, when it actually came to attack, our players had no clue and any attack (there were only 3 or 4 per game by the end of his term) we mustered was actually a co-incidence rather than a thought out systematic play as you claim.
 
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