Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Beachryan]

Just ignore games won, games lost, games drawn, goals scored, goals conceded, goal difference and points. Everyone's a FIFA manager these days.

We'll see. The reason just about every organisation worth its salt (including every football club) use statistics extensively is because they yield results.

You can stick your head in the sand if you'd like, but there is a pretty real correlation between a lot of fans' dislike of the system and the fact we just don't create enough chances. Maybe De Gea will remain the enormous statistical anomaly, but that is unlikely.

 

[breakout67]

The last 3 years someone won the league that 'should not' have won it. Including a certain Chelsea managed by our manager.

xG is 3-4 years old at best, and football clubs have far more complex metrics than things like xG.

You can use xG, chances created, shots conceded etc. to say that a team needs to improve, but to say a team 'should' be in a different place then they are is nonsensical.

I guarantee that some in here were predicting us to do badly against Chelsea and especially Liverpool, and were ready to talk about how they were right all along about us not being a real 2nd placed team. Then the manager showed them up for the simpletons they are.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Sorry but this is a pretty dense response or at least an unfair one.

No, dense is stating "these stats show that we should be 4th or 5th". What stats? So, after ignoring the stats that actually matter, we'll look at those that aren't as crucial in deciding league standing to draw conclusions. You want to hate Mourinho for his style, be my guest. But the constant bashing of our league position is so petty and tiresome. Unfortunately, we have these so called "fans" that would prefer for us to be lower in table so they can bash Mourinho and the team a little more.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The last 3 years someone won the league that 'should not' have won it. Including a certain Chelsea managed by our manager.

xG is 3-4 years old at best, and football clubs have far more complex metrics than things like xG.

You can use xG, chances created, shots conceded etc. to say that a team needs to improve, but to say a team 'should' be in a different place then they are is nonsensical.

I guarantee that some in here were predicting us to do badly against Chelsea and especially Liverpool, and were ready to talk about how they were right all along about us not being a real 2nd placed team. Then the manager showed them up for the simpletons they are.

Yeah, but the xG stats illustrated that we were inferior to both those teams and, essentially, we lost both games and are actually 5th in the league.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We'll see. The reason just about every organisation worth its salt (including every football club) use statistics extensively is because they yield results.

You can stick your head in the sand if you'd like, but there is a pretty real correlation between a lot of fans' dislike of the system and the fact we just don't create enough chances. Maybe De Gea will remain the enormous statistical anomaly, but that is unlikely.

So, 30 games in and we're still riding our luck? Greatest achievement by any team since Leicester won the league, I guess.

 

[Beachryan]

So, 30 games in and we're still riding our luck? Greatest achievement by any team since Leicester won the league, I guess.

Absolutely. 98/100 Matic's last second shot against Palace doesn't go in, we lament another terrible first 60 minutes of Jose's awful tactics.

Probably 7 or 8 out of 10 a ref gives the penalty of Fellaini against Mane, and we drop 2 points. Those two relatively small changes would have us 3rd.

Listen, if literally the only way you judge a football team's success is their league position, why even bother watching? You can find that out in any number of ways.

Maybe we'll stay 2nd. Maybe we'll drop to 3rd, or 4th. The problem with you binary way of thinking is that judging the overall performance is useless. It's just a number. Some of us actually like watching the football part, where seeing passages of play bring forth some kind of emotional response. I know it's childish, but hey, I'm only human.

I don't think we're the 2nd best team in the country, in terms of how we play. I know we sit 2nd in the league, so perhaps my view is irrelevant, but let's wait and see shall we?

 

[fellaini's barber]

Maybe not on topic but who the hell thinks Jose went to watch his own player in an international game?

 

[shaky]

Absolutely. 98/100 Matic's last second shot against Palace doesn't go in, we lament another terrible first 60 minutes of Jose's awful tactics.

Probably 7 or 8 out of 10 a ref gives the penalty of Fellaini against Mane, and we drop 2 points. Those two relatively small changes would have us 3rd.

Listen, if literally the only way you judge a football team's success is their league position, why even bother watching? You can find that out in any number of ways.

Maybe we'll stay 2nd. Maybe we'll drop to 3rd, or 4th. The problem with you binary way of thinking is that judging the overall performance is useless. It's just a number. Some of us actually like watching the football part, where seeing passages of play bring forth some kind of emotional response. I know it's childish, but hey, I'm only human.

I don't think we're the 2nd best team in the country, in terms of how we play. I know we sit 2nd in the league, so perhaps my view is irrelevant, but let's wait and see shall we?

19 times out of 20, we don't score in injury time 1-0 down against Bayern at the Nou Camp. 3 out of 4 times John Terry doesn't miss his penalty. All in all, no xCLs for Fergie in his entire Utd career. Just proves that he was a rubbish manager I guess.

 

[Abhinav]

19 times out of 20, we don't score in injury time 1-0 down against Bayern at the Nou Camp. 3 out of 4 times John Terry doesn't miss his penalty. All in all, no xCLs for Fergie in his entire Utd career. Just proves that he was a rubbish manager I guess.

Well played.

We have been in 2nd place for majority of the season. Its not by fluke but by being consistent through out the season.

 

[haram]

Absolutely. 98/100 Matic's last second shot against Palace doesn't go in, we lament another terrible first 60 minutes of Jose's awful tactics.

Probably 7 or 8 out of 10 a ref gives the penalty of Fellaini against Mane, and we drop 2 points. Those two relatively small changes would have us 3rd.

You do realise the flaw in this thinking is that you can say similar things about every team that is below us as well.

This is what I mean by a lack of perspective from a lot of our fans.

 

[ash_86]

You do realise the flaw in this thinking is that you can say similar things about every team that is below us as well.

This is what I mean by a lack of perspective from a lot of our fans.

Exactly. If Dele Alli has been booked for his diving/challenges , spurs might not be in top 4. Bad decisions/luck always gets tallied up across the season for every team.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

19 times out of 20, we don't score in injury time 1-0 down against Bayern at the Nou Camp. 3 out of 4 times John Terry doesn't miss his penalty. All in all, no xCLs for Fergie in his entire Utd career. Just proves that he was a rubbish manager I guess.

@Beachryan

 

[breakout67]

Absolutely. 98/100 Matic's last second shot against Palace doesn't go in, we lament another terrible first 60 minutes of Jose's awful tactics.

Probably 7 or 8 out of 10 a ref gives the penalty of Fellaini against Mane, and we drop 2 points. Those two relatively small changes would have us 3rd.

Listen, if literally the only way you judge a football team's success is their league position, why even bother watching? You can find that out in any number of ways.

Maybe we'll stay 2nd. Maybe we'll drop to 3rd, or 4th. The problem with you binary way of thinking is that judging the overall performance is useless. It's just a number. Some of us actually like watching the football part, where seeing passages of play bring forth some kind of emotional response. I know it's childish, but hey, I'm only human.

I don't think we're the 2nd best team in the country, in terms of how we play. I know we sit 2nd in the league, so perhaps my view is irrelevant, but let's wait and see shall we?

Absolutely pathetic response, especially the comment on the Liverpool game. Juan Mata missed a sitter to make the game 3-0. Yet what you actually focus on is a '7 or 8 out of 10' penalty (obviously no agenda there right?). Not to mention that the only goal Liverpool scored was from a freak own goal!

Only on this forum can a United fan have so much self hate that they become a parody of Liverpool fans. Alternative league tables, clear bias on refereeing decisions, moral platitudes, anything to defy the league table.

 

[acnumber9]

Absolutely. 98/100 Matic's last second shot against Palace doesn't go in, we lament another terrible first 60 minutes of Jose's awful tactics.

Probably 7 or 8 out of 10 a ref gives the penalty of Fellaini against Mane, and we drop 2 points. Those two relatively small changes would have us 3rd.

Listen, if literally the only way you judge a football team's success is their league position, why even bother watching? You can find that out in any number of ways.

Maybe we'll stay 2nd. Maybe we'll drop to 3rd, or 4th. The problem with you binary way of thinking is that judging the overall performance is useless. It's just a number. Some of us actually like watching the football part, where seeing passages of play bring forth some kind of emotional response. I know it's childish, but hey, I'm only human.

I don't think we're the 2nd best team in the country, in terms of how we play. I know we sit 2nd in the league, so perhaps my view is irrelevant, but let's wait and see shall we?

What about the relatively small changes that would’ve meant Andria Townsend’s opening goal doesn’t take a big deflection and goes straight into the keepers arms. Or Bailly doesn’t contort himself to score Liverpool’s only goal. These things work more than one way.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Exactly. If Dele Alli has been booked for his diving/challenges , spurs might not be in top 4. Bad decisions/luck always gets tallied up across the season for every team.

City were scoring in the 90th minute of every game in November/December. 999/1000 they dont score and we're still in the title race.

 

[Santoryo]

It's simple if Jose was that good we wouldn't have such a split fanbase right now when it comes to opinions regarding the man. The likes of Pep, Posh and Klopp are simply regarded with high esteem by their respective clubs fan bases without much divides in opinions regarding them.

What's Pep is doing at City is great work, so are Klopp and Pochettino for Liverpool and Spurs. The reason Pep is doing a great job at City is self explanatory, Klopp and Poch are doing great work because they've elevated their respective team and getting the absolute best out of their players easily competing with teams enjoying far better financial resources then them(that'd be us).

Mourinho's job at United so far has been average. He has neither elevated the team nor his players. It's mostly par for the course(which some are confusing for great work) or dissapointment(embarrassing exit in the CL, tumescent football).

World class managers are supposed to be doing great jobs, not just your average you'd get out of any decent manager. Pep and co are proving their pedigree as world class managers something Mourinho should start thinking about. He's done nothing exceptional at United like his peers are doing at their own clubs.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It's simple if Jose was that good we wouldn't have such a split fanbase right now when it comes to opinions regarding the man. The likes of Pep, Posh and Klopp are simply regarded with high esteem by their respective clubs fan bases without much divides in opinions regarding them.

What's Pep is doing at City is great work, so are Klopp and Pochettino for Liverpool and Spurs. The reason Pep is doing a great job at City is self explanatory, Klopp and Poch are doing great work because they've elevated their respective team and getting the absolute best out of their players easily competing with teams enjoying far better financial resources then them(that'd be us).

Mourinho's job at United so far has been average. He has neither elevated the team nor his players. It's mostly par for the course(which some are confusing for great work) or dissapointment(embarrassing exit in the CL, tumescent football).

World class managers are supposed to be doing great jobs, not just your average you'd get out of any decent manager. Pep and co are proving their pedigree as world class managers something Mourinho should start thinking about. He's done nothing exceptional at United like his peers are doing at their own clubs.

Who? Pep, yeah he's doing an incredible job at City. Honestly, unless Klopp and Poch win something at their respective clubs, they're not going to be considered WC anywhere but here on Redcafe. Liverpool aren't even as good as they were in 13/14. Spurs aren't as good as last season, so you can easily suggest that their managers aren't reaching the heights set not too long ago.

 

[Beachryan]

Absolutely pathetic response, especially the comment on the Liverpool game. Juan Mata missed a sitter to make the game 3-0. Yet what you actually focus on is a '7 or 8 out of 10' penalty (obviously no agenda there right?). Not to mention that the only goal Liverpool scored was from a freak own goal!

Only on this forum can a United fan have so much self hate that they become a parody of Liverpool fans. Alternative league tables, clear bias on refereeing decisions, moral platitudes, anything to defy the league table.

Cool.

If you think we're the second best footballing team in the country, that's absolutely your prerogative. And odds are we'll end up second, and I'll be wrong and you'll be right.
But acting like I'm some weird outlier feels a bit naive, given that half the posts in this thread are negative. Do you ever ask why that might be? Are you so sure you're right, and everyone else is wrong?

 

[Kapardin]

It's simple if Jose was that good we wouldn't have such a split fanbase right now when it comes to opinions regarding the man. The likes of Pep, Posh and Klopp are simply regarded with high esteem by their respective clubs fan bases without much divides in opinions regarding them.

What's Pep is doing at City is great work, so are Klopp and Pochettino for Liverpool and Spurs. The reason Pep is doing a great job at City is self explanatory, Klopp and Poch are doing great work because they've elevated their respective team and getting the absolute best out of their players easily competing with teams enjoying far better financial resources then them(that'd be us).

Mourinho's job at United so far has been average. He has neither elevated the team nor his players. It's mostly par for the course(which some are confusing for great work) or dissapointment(embarrassing exit in the CL, tumescent football).

World class managers are supposed to be doing great jobs, not just your average you'd get out of any decent manager. Pep and co are proving their pedigree as world class managers something Mourinho should start thinking about. He's done nothing exceptional at United like his peers are doing at their own clubs.

But he's won more trophies which is what counts. As for elevating the level of players, that's subjective. Likes of Lukaku and Lingard have done well under him, improving steadily while Matic has rediscovered some of his title winning form. Even Martial was doing well until we signed Sanchez.

The reason Mourinho divides fanbases is because not everyone is comfortable with his brand of football. I have few problems with it myself, but the same cannot be said for all of us, which is fair I suppose.

And Klopp and Poch do not have as high expectations on their shoulders as Jose does -- both Liverpool and Spurs fans want their teams to be in the Top 4 for a few years stably, and then think about a title challenge later -- whereas we are not as unambitious as that. In any case, if Klopp does not win atleast the LC or FA Cup next season, and crashes out of both competitions similarly again while not competing for the league, he will be under severe pressure at Liverpool. His honeymoon period is over by this season's end.

 

[Beachryan]

Who? Pep, yeah he's doing an incredible job at City. Honestly, unless Klopp and Poch win something at their respective clubs, they're not going to be considered WC anywhere but here on Redcafe. Liverpool aren't even as good as they were in 13/14. Spurs aren't as good as last season, so you can easily suggest that their managers aren't reaching the heights set not too long ago.

But surely you have to factor the conditions and HOW those managers are doing things? Pochettino has coached Spurs to above us in the past 2 seasons, using players like Davies, Son, Winks, Dier, Alli - none of who would have been considered 'United' level before 2 years ago. Klopp for all his defensive faults has very, very clearly improved Firmino, Salah, Mane, Henderson and this year Oxlaide Chamberlain. Liverpool are close to us, with a squad I feel most on here wouldn't swap more than 1 or 2 with.

 

[ash_86]

It's simple if Jose was that good we wouldn't have such a split fanbase right now when it comes to opinions regarding the man. The likes of Pep, Posh and Klopp are simply regarded with high esteem by their respective clubs fan bases without much divides in opinions regarding them.

What's Pep is doing at City is great work, so are Klopp and Pochettino for Liverpool and Spurs. The reason Pep is doing a great job at City is self explanatory, Klopp and Poch are doing great work because they've elevated their respective team and getting the absolute best out of their players easily competing with teams enjoying far better financial resources then them(that'd be us).

Mourinho's job at United so far has been average. He has neither elevated the team nor his players. It's mostly par for the course(which some are confusing for great work) or dissapointment(embarrassing exit in the CL, tumescent football).

World class managers are supposed to be doing great jobs, not just your average you'd get out of any decent manager. Pep and co are proving their pedigree as world class managers something Mourinho should start thinking about. He's done nothing exceptional at United like his peers are doing at their own clubs.

Out of City, Pool and Spurs, Mourinho's had the toughest job. Why? Because we were a team in continuous decline. We are not a ordinary club. Our fan expectation is much much big than the 3 clubs you have quoted. If Pool keeps finishing in top 4 next 5 years, still their fan base would be happy (when did they win anything again?). Same goes for Spurs too. That leaves City and us . Pep is a great manager. His style is beautiful to watch but needs blank checkbook to be implemented. He spent a fecking ton on top of a excellent squad and results are there to see. Can we spend as much as city? No. Mourninho had to manage the fan expectation in one hand and steady the ship on the other. The whole of the season we second which is the most we achieved since our title win 5 years ago. Next season i fully expect him to inject more quality and expect the football to improve.

 

[Beachryan]

Absolutely pathetic response, especially the comment on the Liverpool game. Juan Mata missed a sitter to make the game 3-0. Yet what you actually focus on is a '7 or 8 out of 10' penalty (obviously no agenda there right?). Not to mention that the only goal Liverpool scored was from a freak own goal!

Only on this forum can a United fan have so much self hate that they become a parody of Liverpool fans. Alternative league tables, clear bias on refereeing decisions, moral platitudes, anything to defy the league table.

Sorry, I'm not being clear. Statistically we should not be as high as we are. I was highlighting specific examples to try and show that league position is rather tenuous.

Let me pull it back. Using Squawka, we've taken more than 100 shots less than City and Liverpool. We've completed over 2,000 fewer forward passes. We've had almost 75 less shots in the area. And we've scored 27 and 15 fewer goals, respectively.

On the other side, we've conceded 3 more goals than City, 11 fewer than Liverpool. But, we've also had 42 more saves than LFC and 32 more blocks. Ie, we're actually giving up loads of chances and shots.

So all things being equal, you'd expect us to 'revert to the mean' in terms of scoring and conceding. Maybe we won't, and will just be an anomaly. But a strategy/style that maximises chances of scoring more goals than the opposition seems like a good one to me.

 

[Minimalist]

No, dense is stating "these stats show that we should be 4th or 5th". What stats? So, after ignoring the stats that actually matter, we'll look at those that aren't as crucial in deciding league standing to draw conclusions. You want to hate Mourinho for his style, be my guest. But the constant bashing of our league position is so petty and tiresome. Unfortunately, we have these so called "fans" that would prefer for us to be lower in table so they can bash Mourinho and the team a little more.

I took it more that a team playing like we do would probably, more often than not, be lower in the table than 2nd. Not that we should be.

Obviously it’s irrelevant how you get the 3 points, so long as you do it. But some of these metrics would suggest: 1. We won’t get away with it forever and 2. We’re not getting the most out of this team.

It’s impressive quite frankly that we’re 2nd given our play.

 

[deafepl]

Sorry, I'm not being clear. Statistically we should not be as high as we are. I was highlighting specific examples to try and show that league position is rather tenuous.

Let me pull it back. Using Squawka, we've taken more than 100 shots less than City and Liverpool. We've completed over 2,000 fewer forward passes. We've had almost 75 less shots in the area. And we've scored 27 and 15 fewer goals, respectively.

On the other side, we've conceded 3 more goals than City, 11 fewer than Liverpool. But, we've also had 42 more saves than LFC and 32 more blocks. Ie, we're actually giving up loads of chances and shots.

So all things being equal, you'd expect us to 'revert to the mean' in terms of scoring and conceding. Maybe we won't, and will just be an anomaly. But a strategy/style that maximises chances of scoring more goals than the opposition seems like a good one to me.

Sorry, Mourinho's style of play is so different compared to City, Liverpool or Spurs. A idea of playing counter attacking is allowing the opponents to have a ball whenever they want. Liverpool, Spurs and City won't allow opponents to have a ball, they want to have a ball and attack it but when they lose the ball, they will press.

United didn't concede a lot of chances but if you watch the game, many shots aim at De Gea outside the box, it's hardly a chance. De Gea has probably faced amount of shots equally as Ederson in the penalty box if I recall. It means that we are better defensively compared to City, Spurs and Liverpool when they kept most of the possession against opponents. Only United's biggest weakness is defending a free kick and corner where it could lend to a goal, we dropped points because of that - Stoke, Leicester, Burnley, Newcastle and City = 12 points dropped due to corner/free kick. We only conceded an open play chance for Huddersfield, Chelsea and Spurs costing us 9 points, that's lower than conceding a goal from the free kick and corner but we didn't concede a lot of open play that could cost us points compared to Liverpool or Spurs.

Overall United is fine defensively, just need to improve free kick and corner defending and scoring a goal next season but If United can improve finishes compared to last season then I can see United will improve this again next season. United also have scored more goals than everyone baring City in the first half of season then regressed in the second half of the season, United still need to keep up with a scoring goal rate, this is one they will need to improve for the second half of the season for next season.


On other hands, everyone has a different style of play and gameplan, City, Spurs and Liverpool gameplan is so similar but not exactly same.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

But surely you have to factor the conditions and HOW those managers are doing things? Pochettino has coached Spurs to above us in the past 2 seasons, using players like Davies, Son, Winks, Dier, Alli - none of who would have been considered 'United' level before 2 years ago. Klopp for all his defensive faults has very, very clearly improved Firmino, Salah, Mane, Henderson and this year Oxlaide Chamberlain. Liverpool are close to us, with a squad I feel most on here wouldn't swap more than 1 or 2 with.

If you look at Mourinho's signings, many had reservations regarding Ibra, Matic, Lukaku and Bailly. The former two for their age and yet both have (had) been brilliant in their short careers - not necessarily improved from their peaks but credit to both them and the manager for maintaining these levels. Lukaku, heavily criticised before making the move, has been very good in his debut season and Bailly has shone, when fit, and looks to be our best defender.

Valencia and Young, for all their faults, have been immense as revitalised fullbacks. Definitely can be improved on but I don't think many thought they had a future here a few seasons back. Lingard is having a tremendous season and has improved massively from 12 months ago. Rashford and Martial, whilst having some quiet periods, will probably end the season with their best numbers in terms of goals and assists. Herrera, too, had a remarkable 12 months last season. It's not as if players haven't improved here - just seems like many don't want to see it.

Our squad wasn't great in 15/16, so we've had to change a lot with many going out and seven coming in. We've lacked stability and constantly struggle with injuries to important players, yet we maintained our position of being ahead of the chasing pack. You probably wouldn't swap anyone now, but I'd have swapped half our team before Mourinho was appointed.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Sorry, Mourinho's style of play is so different compared to City, Liverpool or Spurs. A idea of playing counter attacking is allowing the opponents to have a ball whenever they want. Liverpool, Spurs and City won't allow opponents to have a ball, they want to have a ball and attack it but when they lose the ball, they will press.

United didn't concede a lot of chances but if you watch the game, many shots aim at De Gea outside the box, it's hardly a chance. De Gea has probably faced amount of shots equally as Ederson in the penalty box if I recall. It means that we are better defensively compared to City, Spurs and Liverpool when they kept most of the possession against opponents. Only United's biggest weakness is defending a free kick and corner where it could lend to a goal, we dropped points because of that - Stoke, Leicester, Burnley, Newcastle and City = 12 points dropped due to corner/free kick. We only conceded an open play chance for Huddersfield, Chelsea and Spurs costing us 9 points, that's lower than conceding a goal from the free kick and corner but we didn't concede a lot of open play that could cost us points compared to Liverpool or Spurs.

Overall United is fine defensively, just need to improve free kick and corner defending and scoring a goal next season but If United can improve finishes compared to last season then I can see United will improve this again next season. United also have scored more goals than everyone baring City in the first half of season then regressed in the second half of the season, United still need to keep up with a scoring goal rate, this is one they will need to improve for the second half of the season for next season.


On other hands, everyone has a different style of play and gameplan, City, Spurs and Liverpool gameplan is so similar but not exactly same.

Any one watching United cannot believe we concede less chances than City or Spurs, no top team that has spent 300m lets in chances like say West Ham or West Brom. For the money spent, we'd have to be better defensively than we are currently especially since a lot of emphasis is placed on attackers to help our defence and our attack is stifled because of that. There is no balance in our team between defence and attack, we are exactly the opposite of Liverpool, they sacrifice defence for more attack and we sacrifice attack for efficient defending. We may escape by beating the PL teams and defending stoutly against the likes of Liverpool, Spurs etc but in Europe we will struggle.

I'm not saying that our defence is crap, but we seem to lose potential of our attackers because of our style. And that must definitely change.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Any one watching United cannot believe we concede less chances than City or Spurs, no top team that has spent 300m lets in chances like say West Ham or West Brom. For the money spent, we'd have to be better defensively than we are currently especially since a lot of emphasis is placed on attackers to help our defence and our attack is stifled because of that. There is no balance in our team between defence and attack, we are exactly the opposite of Liverpool, they sacrifice defence for more attack and we sacrifice attack for efficient defending. We may escape by beating the PL teams and defending stoutly against the likes of Liverpool, Spurs etc but in Europe we will struggle.

I'm not saying that our defence is crap, but we seem to lose potential of our attackers because of our style. And that must definitely change.

Other than a handful of games, we're not a defensive team. We've lost a lot of our cohesion in attack. We had a brilliant January but have struggled since trying to implement Sanchez in the team.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Other than a handful of games, we're not a defensive team. We've lost a lot of our cohesion in attack. We had a brilliant January but have struggled since trying to implement Sanchez in the team.

Hmm don’t really agree with that, watching us play you can see the defensive strings upon us. Its the same as last season .It’s more the intent of how we play I see as defensive and it’s not just against the top 6. It just becomes more apparent for those games.

It’s things like people shielding positions, or defending in zones when there is no danger there. The excessive funnelling back and no risk play. These are all defensive things. It’s just the way Jose likes to play. There is nothing particularly wrong with it, it’s just he hasn’t got it to work yet. Pogba also seems a bit of a wildcard in his setup as Pogba lack of defensive know how has caused a few problems.

Jose needs to find his balance between his overly defensive nature and attacking. Because it all looks a bit of a mess since he has taken over.

On the shots and chances conceded would be intrested in how they are quantified as the fact we sit so deep and get so many numbers back id imagine a lot of those are hopeful long shots. Also the fact we freely allow teams possession until our final 3rd probably entices a lot of shots.

Would be intresting to see the XG against us because that would determine how dangerous these chances we concede are. Isn’t there a DeGea stat where he saved the highest percentage of XG he’s faced which would point out our defence except him has been pretty rubbish.

 

[norm87cro]

I can't belive how quickly opinions change. Before the Sevilla match almost 50% of people thought he was the man for the job. I think he is doing a great job most of the time and I can really name a few games I wasn't happy with his approach (but then again the same thing can be said for Fergie). The first was the Middlesbrough game last season after going 2 0 up. We almost blew that game but then Valdes made a big mistake to make it 3 1. The Huddersfield defeat this season and the Sevilla debacle (aldo the reason I wasn't happy is because we should have gone guns blazing after the Liverpool and Chelsea wins and I think if we simply went for the win we'd be in the QF by now). So yes he made a mistake, but tactis wise (charisma and man managing goes to Fergie) he's surley the best manager United ever had.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Other than a handful of games, we're not a defensive team. We've lost a lot of our cohesion in attack. We had a brilliant January but have struggled since trying to implement Sanchez in the team.

Why do you think we have lost cohesion in attack? It's because the moment our defence collapses and we lose points, the fingers are pointed at "lazy" attackers and their failure to protect the defence, no wonder our attackers play every match with one eye on tracking back in case possession is lost.

We are also the only top team who defend like smaller teams or close out games like smaller teams by holding onto slender leads, we effectively concede possession in the later parts of second half with absolutely zero aim of counter attacking, just constantly hoofing everything clear, the Leicester match is a very good example, the amount of space and the chances we gave for them to cross into our box was absolutely pathetic, any big team would have held onto possession and crushed Leicester but we did the opposite.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I can't belive how quickly opinions change. Before the Sevilla match almost 50% of people thought he was the man for the job. I think he is doing a great job most of the time and I can really name a few games I wasn't happy with his approach (but then again the same thing can be said for Fergie). The first was the Middlesbrough game last season after going 2 0 up. We almost blew that game but then Valdes made a big mistake to make it 3 1. The Huddersfield defeat this season and the Sevilla debacle (aldo the reason I wasn't happy is because we should have gone guns blazing after the Liverpool and Chelsea wins and I think if we simply went for the win we'd be in the QF by now). So yes he made a mistake, but tactis wise (charisma and man managing goes to Fergie) he's surley the best manager United ever had.

50% is pretty bad. And no he is the not the best tactician this club has ever had.

 

[Fabian Keller]

I can't belive how quickly opinions change. Before the Sevilla match almost 50% of people thought he was the man for the job. I think he is doing a great job most of the time and I can really name a few games I wasn't happy with his approach (but then again the same thing can be said for Fergie). The first was the Middlesbrough game last season after going 2 0 up. We almost blew that game but then Valdes made a big mistake to make it 3 1. The Huddersfield defeat this season and the Sevilla debacle (aldo the reason I wasn't happy is because we should have gone guns blazing after the Liverpool and Chelsea wins and I think if we simply went for the win we'd be in the QF by now). So yes he made a mistake, but tactis wise (charisma and man managing goes to Fergie) he's surley the best manager United ever had.

For me I tolerated it, because I just wanted to believe. I wanted to believe he is actively seeking to change his methods to build a dynasty at this club. I wanted to believe that the old Mourinho is back. The bags gone from his eyes, hair grown out and subtly styled, sharp well fitted suits, and an aura of confident positivity in his methods as he storms about the touchline barking instructions. Maybe the orginal Chelsea mourinho has gone with age, but I felt the Inter Mourinho could still reappear. We really have been making all the rights moves in the transfer market. Pogba, Mkhi at the time of signing, Sanchez were such postive exicting signings. Bailey is the sort of signing Chelsea would have made when Abramovic just made his takeover.

I just feel after the Sevilla match, Mourinho has really lost his touch. That 'before Madrid and now picture' on his appearance really sums him up for me.

Having watched Liverpool a week before destroy Porto away from home 5-0 with a front three that has been coached to look world class by Klopp. A night later, Guardiola doing the same against Basel, a team that blunted us in November. Then us plodding along going for a 0-0 in Seville which was such an unbelievably outdated approach.

Then the return leg. Made me so damn angry. Boiling point.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Why do you think we have lost cohesion in attack? It's because the moment our defence collapses and we lose points, the fingers are pointed at "lazy" attackers and their failure to protect the defence, no wonder our attackers play every match with one eye on tracking back in case possession is lost.

We are also the only top team who defend like smaller teams or close out games like smaller teams by holding onto slender leads, we effectively concede possession in the later parts of second half with absolutely zero aim of counter attacking, just constantly hoofing everything clear, the Leicester match is a very good example, the amount of space and the chances we gave for them to cross into our box was absolutely pathetic, any big team would have held onto possession and crushed Leicester but we did the opposite.

I don't think you're right - who's blaming the attack for our defensive errors?. If you analyse some of the games in which we've dropped points, you'll see a common pattern developing - our defence tends to have a mistake or two in them:

Stoke - Bailly and Jones both make horrible mistakes on set pieces. 2 points dropped.
Huddersfield - Lindelof and Mata culpable for both goals. 3 points dropped.
Man City - Lukaku making a mistake on set pieces. 3 points dropped.
Leicester - Smalling and Jones, again, demonstrated two poor pieces of defending. 2 points dropped.
Burnley - again, silly free kicks were given away. 2 points dropped.

We didn't score against Newcastle or Tottenham, but we conceded goals because of shoddy defending.

As for your point of losing cohesion, I think the introduction of Sanchez is partly responsible as well having to play 3 of the top 6 in our last 7 games. According to Squawka, we averaged 10.6 chances created per match following the win against Stoke. Since, that game, this stat has dropped to 8 per game. We've also only scored 10 goals (1.25 pg) in this period, compared to 48 in 23 before (2.08).

 

[Garethw]

I know that they aren’t the most reliable of sources, but it was said this morning on talksport that Mourinho is looking to have clear the air talks with the squad.

 

[Adisa]

After Sky's article on the progress from Van Gaal to Mourinho I was tempted to look at the comparison between United and the rest of the pack for the season so far, just taking most of the stats you can grab off the net. Also before anyone says it, I'm not trying to bash Mourinho.

Apologies if there's formatting errors I've missed and obviously not every red highlight is suggesting a problem (for example in defending - City having less interceptions or clearances is obviously not an issue for them).

Positives:

• Clean sheets.
• We know how to draw fouls.
• Decent shot accuracy and as good as City for goals outside the penalty area.
• Probably more to do with tactics but we are pretty good at intercepting.
• We're good at telling the ref to fcuk off.
• Our goalkeeper does his job pretty well to say the least.

Negatives or to improve on:

• Worst of the bunch for chances created and forward passes.
• Take less shots than everyone else. Not just total shots but every category.
• Worst rate of headed goals - bizarre given the height of some of our players.
• Worst at winning tackles and commit the most fouls.
• Pick up the most yellow cards, and the worst offenders of all categories of yellow card.
• Not sure it's good that Dave has to make so many saves per match.
• Also pretty dramatic difference between the other goalkeepers for the average distribution, resulting in a much lower accuracy.

Quite impressive in a way that we're 2nd and on course to reach the best points total since Ferguson left. There would certainly seem to be plenty to improve on next season. We're not dreadful, but we're not great. The attacking side of things worries me I must admit.

EDIT: After posting, I look up two posts and see someone getting bashed for posting stats. O well.

Those stats prove what everyone can see on the pitch.
Out of the top teams, we allow the opposition play the most.
Something I'd like to see us stop.

 

[haram]

Those stats prove what everyone can see on the pitch.
Out of the top teams, we allow the opposition play the most.
Something I'd like to see us stop.

If we improve our build up from deeper areas we will devastate teams on the counter. That’s what we are working towards especially away from home. I don't really care if we let teams have the ball. Sooner or later they will start to become more aware of our counters and commit less and less going forward and we will have more time on the ball.

 

[Adisa]

If we improve our build up from deeper areas we will devastate teams on the counter. That’s what we are working towards especially away from home. I don't really care if we let teams have the ball. Sooner or later they will start to become more aware of our counters and commit less and less going forward and we will have more time on the ball.

I think in modern football it's become more and more difficult to counter from deep areas because most teams have become more compact, regardless of if they're an attacking team or defensive team.
Most goals are now scored on the counter press when the opponent is most disorganised.
Just makes logical sense to start your counter from higher up the pitch.

 

[haram]

I think in modern football it's become more and more difficult to counter from deep areas because most teams have become more compact, regardless of if they're an attacking team or defensive team.
Most goals are now scored on the counter press when the opponent is most disorganised.
Just makes logical sense to start your counter from higher up the pitch.

Liverpool came to our ground and we deleted their entire press and attack with ease. I am not bothered by us not playing a consistent high press.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Liverpool came to our ground and we deleted their entire press and attack with ease. I am not bothered by us not playing a consistent high press.

I am.

Because every single CL winner since 2011(barring Chelsea) has won with proactive defending and not reactive defending.

 

[haram]

I am.

Because every single CL winner since 2011(barring Chelsea) has won with proactive defending and not reactive defending.

Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that Bayern, Real and Barca have a collection of world class players and squads simply better than everyone else.