Having great players is only part of the total equation.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Having great players is only part of the total equation.
At the top level the difference shows.
So basically we can never expect half decent football from Mourinho unless we have squads like Madrid, Bayern and Barca?
Tell me where I said that.
Sevilla is very far from top level.
Won the Europa League 3 years in a row (and actually beat difficult teams, unlike us when we has a relatively easy run), regularly go toe-to-toe with Real and Barca in La Liga when they play them, and finish in La Liga's top 4 (and this is despite losing their best players and two successful coaches).
Sevilla arent the European elite (then again, neither are we at the moment!), but what you're saying is almost an insult to them. They'd finish in the top 4 in the EPL, or fight for a place, not unlike Chelsea, Spurs or Liverpool. I remember Ray Wilkins before we played Sevilla saying that they'd finish in the bottom 6 in the EPL because it's so much stronger than La Liga, what an idiot. (Mind you, I'm not saying that's an excuse for our failure against them).
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Mate, seriously? Just ask resident Sevilla fans what their take is on this current side if you couldn’t see it yourself. Before the start of the tie one went to suggested that Jose should get a boot on the spot if we fail to progress (that’s how poor they are and I trust the judgment of someone who watches them day in day out).
Ok?
You said they were 'very far' from the top level, in a post discussing Real, Barca and Bayern. That's not really a fair assessment, as most teams are 'very far' from that, including us. Are you suggesting that Ray Wilkins was right? They would easily finish in the top 6 in the EPL, they play in a harder league and regularly finish top 6. They've played two English teams recently - us and Liverpool, and beaten us both (played us twice, pool 3 times, so couldnt be a fluke). I'm not really following your line of argument here.
I even said in my post we have no excuses for failing to beat them, but your posts sounds like those pundits who have never watched La Liga. Sevilla are a solid team with strong European and cup pedigree (they're in the final of the Copa Del Rey again). You're right, this is the poorest Sevilla side in years, and I dont blame the fans for thinking that, but even then, neither us nor liverpool could beat them, having played them 4 times collectively - how far are both of us from the 'top level'?
To someone who said most CL winners play proactive football, you said that they have world class squads. Doesn't that mean for us to play proactively we need world class squad too?
They lost to fecking Leganes 3 days after they beat us at home. Don't tell me Sevilla is giving up the league to win the CL....
Maybe you should read what was said again. Basically you’re saying you cannot play half decent football without a consistent high press?
Pressing as soon as possession is lost is very important if not you'd be getting ripped to shreds on the counter. So yes pressing goes hand in hand if you are going to play higher up the pitch.
Your entire argument that Sevilla are 'very far' from the top sides is based on one result? We lost to Huddersfield, City lost to Wigan, I could go on...
So you are saying you need a consistent high press to play half decent football? That is what you are saying? Please clarify.
Building from deep cannot lead to good football?
Sevilla are 6th in La Liga, they have lost to a lot of shite teams this year, they also haven't spent 300m to beef up their squads with buys like Sanchez and Pogba, surely we are expected to beat them? or at least give them a hard time over 180 minutes? You said Liverpool struggled too but they scored 3 goals, showed initiative and created loads of chances and what did we do? Hoofed it to fecking Fellaini and barely held on due to De Gea's heroics and if Ben Yedder had played in their home fixture, they would have tonked us in the first leg itself.
It can lead to good football. The only top football club that play similar to that style is Juventus, if that is what Mourinho is going to do then I'd be very happy.
They have lost 12 league games for crying out loud, more than Girona. That's appalling. Its Everton level. b4 you says La Liga superior blah blah blah, Athletico have lost only 3, Barcelona 0, so no, it isn't all that difficult, especially when I saw Atletico and Barca against Chelsea, Real vs Spurs, they weren't outstanding sides, any of them (obviously Messi is). Back to Sevilla, they have scored 37 and conceded 44. They are pub and we made them out to be superior to us, which I cannot forgive. That is the low point of the season for me.
Damn this place gets it shit together fast. Thought it was pretty unanimous that the Sevilla result was pathetic but here we are, who is going to stop them really?!
Don’t bother there’s cult on here with some, when someone tries to argue that current Sevilla is not far from the top just to make Jose look a tiny bit better is a sign of unhealthy attachment.
So then what is the problem with what I said?
I wouldn’t if I’m honest, one club operates constantly close to a zero net spend the other throws money around left right centre, hence standards should be different imo.
That's how it always start until they convince themselves that we have an average squad. This is all Jose's tactics to dilute the amount of shit he's been rightly getting after his Sevilla debacle.
He goes off trying to convince people that Sevilla are top class (no they aren't, not even close), lie through his teeth that we have an average squad needing a lot more reinforcement(fecking pathetic thing to say when just about a month ago he was the first to say that he only needed to strengthen in midfield area).
The moment the heat was on him and rightly so, he started making up excuses not caring who he threw under the bus. 2 years in and still want to talk about transition. Honestly that sentence alone should have gotten him fired, just another way to spout more excuses.
All his peers talked about transition and rebuilding in their first seasons in charge and started producing the good in their sophomore season yet this guy want to talk about transition after spending a fortune instead of delivering some decent football.
He goes off trying to convince people that Sevilla are top class (no they aren't, not even close), lie through his teeth that we have an average squad needing a lot more reinforcement(fecking pathetic thing to say when just about a month ago he was the first to say that he only needed to strengthen in midfield area).
The moment the heat was on him and rightly so, he started making up excuses not caring who he threw under the bus. 2 years in and still want to talk about transition. Honestly that sentence alone should have gotten him fired, just another way to spout more excuses.
All his peers talked about transition and rebuilding in their first seasons in charge and started producing the good in their sophomore season yet this guy want to talk about transition after spending a fortune instead of delivering some decent football.
Very interesting. This post says a lot.
Going by your example. Thanks.
If we end up playing and winning like Juventus this guy still wont be happy. Imagine trying to convince someone like that. Mourinho has already lost with people like this. It’s ok, it just means I cant take posters like that very serious. Severe lack of perspective.
You post some drivel.
Of course I would be happy winning but merely saying that our standards should be a bit higher in that regard given our financial power is a valid argument as well. Stop posting nonsense.
Juventus shithoused their way to some ridiculous clean sheet record, I guarantee that people would be complaining about our style of play if we played like Juventus because it's quite similar already. Juventus are just better at defending than us so they concede less stupid goals.
And they play in Italy where there’s no Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and City, Jose himself done the same with Inter there.
Juventus are better than all of those teams except City, so I don't see what the point is. Juventus in the last 3-4 years would have made this league the same joke they made Seria A. The PL has been the best of the worst for a long time, evidenced by their poor european record.
Well lets agree to disagree then. Previous Juventus versions maybe but not this current team surely.
Sorry, i can't agree with that and i don't have any kind of problem with a "safety first" approach in football. Juventus is the most feared team in the Serie A since their return to the top of the food chain in Italy. Their approach might be cautious, pragmatic (to the point of exhaustion sometimes) and quite minimalistic in terms of pure entertainment but, on the other hand, it also emits super confidence, its unpretentiousness is surrounded by an aura of superiority and it's also rather courageous in the sense that they have absolute faith in themselves and their tactics to turn all games into one-goal contests. Our side has the former qualities but it kind of falls short when the discussion comes to the latter ones.
You see, Juventus went to Naples while they were second on the table to face a scintillating Napoli side. It was a clash of styles and Juventus won simply because they weren't second best against a more proactive side throughout the 90 minutes. They played their own game. Their ability to stay alive in London a few weeks back and turn the tie around was also remarkable. And between the clashes with Spurs, they had three tricky away games against Fiorentina, Lazio and Torino which they won without conceding a single goal.
That's not only pragmatic, it's also efficient. And as the 07/08 and 08/09 seasons proved, most United fans can be content with efficiency. Talking about ridiculous clean sheet records, we have one of our own from back in 08/09 (14 PL matches), i don't think there were many complaints back then. Maybe the fact that we were the team to beat has something to do something with that. In the away games against the top-six and in Europe nowadays we are reactive but we're not efficient. And we certainly don't look like we are the team to beat in England.
For me, it's not that we're reactive (3/5 of the last PL titles have gone to reactive sides) that hurts but the fact that we don't look convincing on the pitch. I still don't trust this United side to protect narrow leads against anyone, i don't believe that our ability to defend off the ball and kill off the opponent's rhythm is top notch like Atleti or Juve's and i don't think we're mentally capable (or prepared, if you find "mentally capable" offensive) to come on top after 90 minutes in tight contests (which includes most important games). And that's 2/3 in Mourinho's initial contract.
Mourinho is being paid close to 15 million p/y because he's a manager whose sides compete with the best for the biggest prizes. We don't have that at United yet, so people will eventually start complaining. And while i find the arse licking of Klopp and Poch on here rather nauseating at times, their empty trophy cabinets don't make up for Mourinho's shortcomings thus far at United. I just hope for the sake of everyone that he gets it right next season.
Juventus play pragmatic football but are superior in possession when compared to us. Their passing is crisp when they do go forward or counter
Has Jose's decision to take his issues with the team public been justified by the response we saw today?
No evidence that anyone isn't playing for him. Pogba had his best game in ages (and in a midfield two for most of it!)
This Mourinho fella may know what he's on about after all.
No evidence that anyone isn't playing for him. Pogba had his best game in ages (and in a midfield two for most of it!)
This Mourinho fella may know what he's on about after all.
Has Jose's decision to take his issues with the team public been justified by the response we saw today?
No evidence that anyone isn't playing for him. Pogba had his best game in ages (and in a midfield two for most of it!)
This Mourinho fella may know what he's on about after all.
Made the same point in a different thread. He got the response he was looking for in that first half. Pointed out in his post match that he wasn't happy with the second half as well. Hopefully we can put 90 mins together next week and delay city winning the title.
Or maybe the fans putting pressure on Jose has forced him to play more fluid football. Previously some would have us believe we couldn't play like we did in the first half without 4 new world class signings. We showed flashes of greatness with the same crop of players many insisted were not good enough
Or maybe it's both.
Oh yeah it's definitely played a part, but it played that part before the Brighton game straight after the Sevilla one.
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