Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Don't really think this tells us anything. Young's not an idiot, he's hardly likely to start publicly slating the manager if he wants to carry on playing for United.
I am not loving his change of tone recently. In his first presser he threw out the last few years. Now he's using words like transition, which is the kind of thing I got fed up with under Moyes and Van Gaal. I just hope he's able to sign who he wants in the summer and strike a more positive tone come August.
And there lies the problem. He doesn’t understand that we don’t want negative cowardly football. We are a club built on the foundations of attacking football.
No, I think he does. I don't think he's stupid and I don't think he set up us up to play like we did against Sevilla or Brighton. I just don't think he'll ever admit (to the public) that he's wrong or that his tactics are not working. This is a man who has got to this position because of his ego and he's not going to deflate it for anyone. I think that, deep down, he knows he has got things wrong which is why he stated or made it clear to the media (and fans) that our we dedicated the Brighton build up time to train our attacking transitions.
Look at him when she asks that question, he knows what going on, he knows what the fans expect, and, I reckon, he knows he has made mistakes, but he's never going to admit that to you or me.
The part about not understanding the fan's disappoinment in my opinion isn't a surprise. Jose and his methods are synonymous with each other. You can't separate them. If you want him to stay then you want his methods to stay, or you're just asking to eat your cake and still have it. He doesn't view his tactics against Sevilla as wrong or a mistake. He got knocked out twice in a similar fashion at Chelsea. If he didn't see it as a mistake in both those years, then why would he do so now?
Why I'm long past the stage of expecting him to change his approach
Speak for yourself. I want trophies, nothing else.
Chelsea wasn't a great performance but a great result.
Liverpool was a brilliantly effective first half (I mean let's not forget both goals came from punts downfield) and then a managed second half (to put it politely).
If that's what Mourinho counts as 'attacking' and 'thrilling' then I worry.
Trophies and attacking football go together, ask Barcelona, Madrid, etc..
If he thinks that the Chelsea and Liverpool games were 'exciting' and 'attacking' then I dont really know what else to say. There is no hope in the future for building a team that plays expansive progressive football. The results with him are a game of percentages but the approach unfortunately will never change. Even in our best games it will always be a struggle and battle. I could barely watch the Liverpool game for the last 15 minutes. How was that game exciting? The result was good and in the first half we defended well and took advantage when the chances came. If Rashford doesn't take his chances then we are in trouble. It's a very fine margin and occasionally there'll be games like Sevilla where it fails. Why do we have to win with the bare minimum? I don't understand why he chooses an approach with such fine margins.
And good solid attacking and entertaining football is what has made us so successful on and off the pitch.
We will never win the biggest trophies playing such a cowardly way.
That's what people have been saying about Mourinho his whole career and he continues to win trophies playing a 'cowardly way'
No, they really haven't been saying that for his career. He's often been accused of being boring and stifling games against clearly technically superior teams, but never of being full-on cowardly until this season. Not even in his last season in Chelsea was he accused of being cowardly by Chelsea fans.
I don’t particularly give a feck what he’s done prior to being here.
The fact of the matter is we remain miles away from winning the title. We have a team that is hideously imbalanced and a manager that alienates his squad by managing to pick a fight in an empty room!
All of that could be forgiven if we played good entertaining football. But we don’t. We have adopted a style that makes the entire team look disjointed and deprived of attacking intent. The majority of our games are boring and frustrating.
This not losing at any costs mentality that Mourinho has is cowardly, and that’s regardless of what he may have achieved in the past.
I do not want us playing expansive football. I don't mind if a top opposition has 60% of the ball and does nothing useful with it. I'm fine if we show more maturity and quickness in our attacks. Against big top team, i just care about the result and not the performance. This team isn't many miles away from what i would like to see, so i have no problems with our manager.
So you don’t want to see good football? You’d be happy if we scored a goal and then just defended for our lives?
For me good football is not all about attacking, It's about overall solid display. I'm not a big fan of forming triangles and tiki-taka. I was happy with what we did against pool. Blitz start, great wing play of the old, Dominant performance. Whole of the game pool did not get a sniff of our goal. Of course we could have been better during periods, but no where as bad as being quoted. If Jose could get us strong in the Counter, that is all i would ask of him.
You can buy trophies from the shop. They'll even carve the club's name into it.
I am not sure the problem is the 'cowardly way' of his playing style. Its a whole mixture of problems that came to a head with the Seville game.
When he has been successful he has had players who will go to war with him, that is his overwhelming desire. As soon as he has a group of players that can't handle that pressure he goes to war with them. Porto, Chelsea, Inter and his (more expansive) title winning Madrid were all driven and out to strangle games with an intensity and control that other teams couldn't live with. To do this he needs players who buy into him and if they aren't Mourinho players they will play in a cowards fashion and he will throw them right under the bus for that. His past history suggests that with the right type of players Mourinho will win and deliver trophies.
Beautiful to watch? No. But his teams in there pomp were killers and successful and I would not say no to seeing a Manchester United team winning trophies with that type of devilment. Some people think he has lost his mojo, thats bullshit, give him the players and we will see old Jose. Its no coincidence he is trying to improve the atmosphere, he wants the fight, he wants the arena, he wants Guardiola by the throat and it all kicking off, but mostly he wants to win.
My concern is that he seems to have bought a number of players who do not seem to have the personality he is looking for. While performances and his rhetoric have dominated the headlines, that is the issue going forward. Personally I would stick with him but I can see why many people have concerns when Mourinho can't seem to identify Mourinho players. I would rather give him the chance to get it right as no one else guarantees success either though.
When he has been successful he has had players who will go to war with him, that is his overwhelming desire. As soon as he has a group of players that can't handle that pressure he goes to war with them. Porto, Chelsea, Inter and his (more expansive) title winning Madrid were all driven and out to strangle games with an intensity and control that other teams couldn't live with. To do this he needs players who buy into him and if they aren't Mourinho players they will play in a cowards fashion and he will throw them right under the bus for that. His past history suggests that with the right type of players Mourinho will win and deliver trophies.
Beautiful to watch? No. But his teams in there pomp were killers and successful and I would not say no to seeing a Manchester United team winning trophies with that type of devilment. Some people think he has lost his mojo, thats bullshit, give him the players and we will see old Jose. Its no coincidence he is trying to improve the atmosphere, he wants the fight, he wants the arena, he wants Guardiola by the throat and it all kicking off, but mostly he wants to win.
My concern is that he seems to have bought a number of players who do not seem to have the personality he is looking for. While performances and his rhetoric have dominated the headlines, that is the issue going forward. Personally I would stick with him but I can see why many people have concerns when Mourinho can't seem to identify Mourinho players. I would rather give him the chance to get it right as no one else guarantees success either though.
Miki was all complimentary about Mourinho tough love treatments(basically kissing ass) in interviews when he just started getting into the team after a rough start to his United carrer then after his switch to arsenal he wasn't that enthused about those methods after all.
Obviously any player would need to say the right things as to not end up on the wrong side of their boss. Heck even Shaw just a month or so earlier was all praise about Jose tough approach but we just found out he was just saying what needed to be said given he clearly doesn't like it.
Beside Young need to kiss major asses anyways, given he should be grateful to Mourinho for letting him play and triggering contract extension. Most managers out there wouldn't have him play as their left back nor extend his contract.
Lol
I share similar concerns. The manager and the current squad are a bit of a mismatch. We have a lot of good players that aren't suited for his style. A mismatch that will actually be really expensive to fix, and I include the opportunity cost of pawning off the already good players that aren't 'Jose players'.
Heck even the fans are a mismatch with the manager as he can't seem to sell them the narrative of the inspired underdog his teams have always thrived on. United fanbase won't be buying that mindset anytime soon
How can you think that he didn’t set the team up like that against Sevilla (I didn’t see the Brighton match). That’s how he has always set his teams out in big games. Every single team he has ever managed has played like that. It’s in the man’s DNA and anyone hoping that he is going to change is in for a big disappointment.
Was he speaking for you?
I am not sure why people are attacking mourinho for being too defensive.
Mourinho has been playing more offensively this season. For eg when man utd is 1-nil up, Mourinho doesn't sub in a defender but he opt to continue to play an offensive player to kill off the game. Clearly, Mourinho is not fully parking the bus nowadays.
The reason why man utd is not attacking enough is because the players are not good enough to constantly attack.
Only good player who can constantly attack is Mata but he has his weaknesses like being slow to recover and defend, not aggressive enough etc.
The team needs better players. I don't really think Mourinho is the problem although I must add, Sanchez seems to be the wrong addition to the squad too.
Mourinho has been playing more offensively this season. For eg when man utd is 1-nil up, Mourinho doesn't sub in a defender but he opt to continue to play an offensive player to kill off the game. Clearly, Mourinho is not fully parking the bus nowadays.
The reason why man utd is not attacking enough is because the players are not good enough to constantly attack.
Only good player who can constantly attack is Mata but he has his weaknesses like being slow to recover and defend, not aggressive enough etc.
The team needs better players. I don't really think Mourinho is the problem although I must add, Sanchez seems to be the wrong addition to the squad too.
There is just a large amount of people who are simply impatient. That or they couldn’t wait to stick the boot into Mourinho.
There is also a large amount of fans that have given Jose almost 2 seasons and find it extremely hard to understand why we can't move the football from defense to attack without launching it up the pitch. I honestly feel like even mid table premier league teams move the ball in a more convincing fashion than us. He has to take responsibility for these shortcomings.
I highly doubt you watch midtable teams week in week out. More hyperbole nonsense.
Never mind that, how about you just go and look at the teams who are midtable. How Man United fans can lack so much perspective is almost hilarious.
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Exactly, until this season. And you don't think our squad has anything to do with that? He is a tactician after all and he has inherited many squads in his career and I trust that Jose has properly analysed our squad. I can't say much about his man management because I'm not at the training grounds or the dressing room. I'd give Jose another season or two more transfer windows before concluding whether he is the right fit for us.
«We». Not all United fans share your view.
Spot on.
His successful teams have never parked the bus like this, only Inter did it against Barca but no other games.
What you said jotted my memory. I think he tried to ask his CBs to do exactly that (make that sharp first pass to the mids to get out of the press) against City last year. It backfired (remember him criticising Bailly for taking the short sideway pass?). We have gone away from that and have done exactly what you describe above every sine.
You remember wrong. He said he'd asked them to not play the first station pass.
There’s also more than one United fan who share my views. Plenty, in fact.
Thanks for making a completely irrelevant point. But no one is getting butt hurt about you using the word WE. Talk about taking fanboy reactions to exteme levels.
Also, 0/10 for your lack of originality in the phrasing of your sentences. Feels like I've seen a post phrased like that recently.
I wasn't expecting Jose to say "Yes, I set the team up too negatively against Sevilla" or anything of the sort. I think he made a mistake with his midfield selection but I don't have a need for him to come out and say that. It was different under Moyes and LVG because you had the overwhelming feeling that the former was clueless and the latter was far too rigid. And I agree with Jose that we are a team in transition. I think that much is obvious.
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