Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[steffyr2]

The question is -- will these Mourinho-is-the-devil threads keep going for the entire international break?

How many of our players are playing in the WC for their NT? Those players you'd think would be concerned how they were doing.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The question is -- will these Mourinho-is-the-devil threads keep going for the entire international break?

How many of our players are playing in the WC for their NT? Those players you'd think would be concerned how they were doing.

You mean ones like the "Mourinho Assessment" one your posting in?

 

[Return of the Manc]

He did get rid of certain players. We just couldn’t do it all once. That’s why it’s just a process. It was three years under Moyes and van Gaal. It’s only been 2 under Jose. There was a deteriotation of the squad that needed to be fixed over time.

Had Jose came in after SAF or Moyes we would be so much better off. Van Gaal added a lot of players that simply aren’t good enough. He allowed this passive mentality to creep in. They were told to make these pointless passes and the standards at this club slipped.

- Its meaningless to Jose because possession football in any matter means little to him - hell 2 seasons in we have hardly seen a back pass or two from our CB's. That is not LVGs fault. LVG built a basis of possesion but was fundamentally passed it to add any dynamism.

Dynamism and Mourinho simply do not go- Mourinho is pure power & directness & it is the reason he is finding this hard. Any other manager who plays football on the ground & was dynamic with the way they approached football as a team of 11 players would have been able to utilise the basics of what LVG left behind. We chose the manager who leaves it up to the players to decide how to pass; obviously they are going to do it the way LVG asked them to.

 

[Acheron]

I think United should stick with him a few more seasons. City had been building for Pep's arrival for a long time and changed the club's infrastructure and brought a lot of people from Barcelona to replicate the best conditions for him (along with a heavy investment in players) and what United have been doing after SAF hasn't been as planned or systematical and it's not like they were playing beautiful and intricate football in the last years of SAF, so all in all I think Mourinho is the man to take the club in the right track.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

But would you say it again if he does win a title for us?

what a strange question to ask.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Is it really blindly? In the case of Shaw, I really wouldn't say so. I really want the guy to make it here: he's young, English, extremely talented, but more than one manager has called him out.

Even yesterday, I was screaming at the tv for him to overlap on the left side because of how narrow our forwards were, but he simply refused to do it.

No issue if it were just Shaw. He has been a disappointment and I dont see why Jose has persisted with him if he rates him so lowly. Should have made up his mind sooner than nearly 2 years into his tenure. I'd just sell him and be done with it instead of constantly moaning about the player.

Then again, it's not just Shaw. He's been having a go at a lot of our players. They're apparently all terrible and he's done an incredible job to get us second against unfavourable odds.

 

[Listar]

No issue if it were just Shaw. He has been a disappointment and I dont see why Jose has persisted with him if he rates him so lowly. Should have made up his mind sooner than nearly 2 years into his tenure. I'd just sell him and be done with it instead of constantly moaning about the player.

Then again, it's not just Shaw. He's been having a go at a lot of our players. They're apparently all terrible and he's done an incredible job to get us second against unfavourable odds.

The answer to your first question is we cannot be like our neighbours that splashes 100 mil on fullbacks while concurrently upgrading our midfields and forwards. The squad Mourinho inherited, especially according to the Caf at that point in time, was the lack of proven striker (Rooney?) and a glaring absence of quality in midfield. Fullbacks were not a concern. You can't say Mourinho haven't addressed Caf's top most concern at that time. It is no coincidence that after upgrading these positions, we are sitting at second when LVG's team had us at 4th to 6th.

When we can splash 100mil on fullbacks, I will then judge Mourinho more harshly if not delivering a title. Because to be honest, if we are to think Pep is leaps and bounds better than Mourinho, then he wouldn't have the need to upgrade his fullbacks. Mourinho did not have the luxury.

Do we seriously think that Pep, or any other manager for that matter, would succeed in United as Pep is doing now in city if the budget is although huge, but constraint? I got a funny feeling if the tables are turn and we swapped manager after LVG we will still be in the same position, i.e. City 1st United 2nd. We have to be realistic on our expectations.

 

[steffyr2]

You mean ones like the "Mourinho Assessment" one your posting in?

Yes, but I have trouble remembering why I posted that here. Was I looking for the "Mourinho saving his own skin again" thread, or the "Mourinho vs Read Madrid" thread, or "Mourinho last press conference" thread, or the "Mourinho press conference before that thread"? They all become a big blur, I'd really thought the subject would die out by now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yes, but I have trouble remembering why I posted that here. Was I looking for the "Mourinho saving his own skin again" thread, or the "Mourinho vs Read Madrid" thread, or "Mourinho last press conference" thread, or the "Mourinho press conference before that thread"? They all become a big blur, I'd really thought the subject would die out by now.

Really? Our manager gave those kind of press conferences and you expected it to die out already? Mourinho made the noise. The sound will echo for a good while.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Really? Our manager gave those kind of press conferences and you expected it to die out already? Mourinho made the noise. The sound will echo for a good while.

I also love people are complaining about the negativity when Mourinho has been spewing nothing but, negativity since the Sevilla match.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

When we can splash 100mil on fullbacks, I will then judge Mourinho more harshly if not delivering a title. Because to be honest, if we are to think Pep is leaps and bounds better than Mourinho, then he wouldn't have the need to upgrade his fullbacks. Mourinho did not have the luxury.

Pep has spent over 250m on defenders alone. Jose has spent 65m. It's a point that frequently gets lost or underrepresented when you consider City had a far stronger spine to start with.

 

[Return of the Manc]

Pep has spent over 250m on defenders alone. Jose has spent 65m. It's a point that frequently gets lost or underrepresented when you consider City had a far stronger spine to start with.

Though to be fair - no one is judging him against Manchester City. He has excuses against such a team. Against some of the others he should be doing significantly better both in some results and some aesthetics.

 

[Jonno]

Though to be fair - no one is judging him against Manchester City. He has excuses against such a team. Against some of the others he should be doing significantly better both in some results and some aesthetics.

Yet when you exclude Manchester City as you pointed out aren’t being compared to, then Jose’s United are top of the rest of the PL.

So for that reason alone I just don’t understand the criticism.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Though to be fair - no one is judging him against Manchester City.

That is where the vast majority of the criticism comes from. City running away with the league, apparently playing the best football since the game was invented, their manager being only slightly less revered than Gandhi, and the two are constantly contrasted as if they're somehow justified in any kind of binary comparison. If you add the goalkeeper in, Pep has spent more on defense than Jose has altogether.

 

[steffyr2]

Really? Our manager gave those kind of press conferences and you expected it to die out already? Mourinho made the noise. The sound will echo for a good while.

If Mourinho can think of something to say/do that will get the players to move a bit faster when they play, and get them pass to their teammates rather than the opponents, I'd be pleased. But since I don't think he's telling them to poke around the field and then give the ball away, I'm not after his head.
Unfortunately, every word Mourinho says just isn't that interesting. Even the players probably don't listen and assume it's all a show. We tend to get knocked out in the CL. Jose could probably improve that if he lasts long enough, but the team is probably just too new at the moment.

 

[Listar]

Though to be fair - no one is judging him against Manchester City. He has excuses against such a team. Against some of the others he should be doing significantly better both in some results and some aesthetics.

Ok. If we leave city out, then what are we judging him on? If basing it just from the past few weeks:
- won against Chelsea
- comeback win against palace
- won against LIVERPOOL
- Lost with a dismay performance against Sevilla
- won against Brighton with admittedly timid display

Hardly a team in crisis. Do we seriously believe there is a manager that can better that result? Maybe Pep if we give him unlimited funds. But he still lost to Liverpool. And had a hard time against palace.

I am realistic. If we do have unlimited funds, of course I would prefer Pep, as I believe his football is superior. But the disclaimer is he will need the right (great) players. You think he would have won the title with Leicester like Raneiri? So given the current situation, I would take Mourinho 10 times out of 10 as Pep would have us playing like LVG. That was the zombie football period that I would like not to repeat (and I am supportive of LVG during his tenure here). What would Pep do when he is told he does not have money to upgrade on Shaw, Young, Valencia and Darmian? Make them world class? Don't kid yourself.

 

[Listar]

Yet when you exclude Manchester City as you pointed out aren’t being compared to, then Jose’s United are top of the rest of the PL.

So for that reason alone I just don’t understand the criticism.

To be fair, that shows the progress we made. One loss in UCL and we are having a meltdown. I still remember my highlight the year after SAF was the Evra goal against Bayern. And we lost.

Imagine that. Your best bit that year was a screamer in a game you lost.

 

[Kapardin]

Ok. If we leave city out, then what are we judging him on? If basing it just from the past few weeks:
- won against Chelsea
- comeback win against palace
- won against LIVERPOOL
- Lost with a dismay performance against Sevilla
- won against Brighton with admittedly timid display

Hardly a team in crisis. Do we seriously believe there is a manager that can better that result? Maybe Pep if we give him unlimited funds. But he still lost to Liverpool. And had a hard time against palace.

I am realistic. If we do have unlimited funds, of course I would prefer Pep, as I believe his football is superior. But the disclaimer is he will need the right (great) players. You think he would have won the title with Leicester like Raneiri? So given the current situation, I would take Mourinho 10 times out of 10 as Pep would have us playing like LVG. That was the zombie football period that I would like not to repeat (and I am supportive of LVG during his tenure here). What would Pep do when he is told he does not have money to upgrade on Shaw, Young, Valencia and Darmian? Make them world class? Don't kid yourself.

You are right. But there are a few things he did/is doing wrong:

1) His treatment of Martial. Don't kid yourself, Martial would be doing a lot more if he was at City or Liverpool or even Arsenal, much as I hate to say it. Martial is our best asset and Jose needs to get the best out of him. What was the need of moving him to the RW when Sanchez arrived when he was scoring before that --- it disrupted his form.

2) Needs to motivate Pogba and manage him better. Don't ask me how, its' his job. But clear as day that Pogba is very talented and should be doing more.

3) The Sevilla loss is unforgettable and a kick to the guts regardless of improvement in the league. Can't do anything about it, but just saying it was Jose's fault.

 

[Dorian Gray]

I completely disagree with Mourinho's latest comments. He is just throwing the players under the bus. Incidentally the same bus he has taught them to park. It is not as if for the entirety of his spell at United they were playing a fast buildup game. Mourinho had no problem with the playing style so far, and rightly so because he was getting the results. Suddenly media and fans are up in the arms about his style of play and he comes out with the line that he is pissed off because the team didn't carry out the instructions of attacking play that he drilled into them for 2 days. 2 days!! I mean come on! Even if that were true, they aren't going to suddenly be able to reverse something they have been taught over the last 2 years. This just comes across as petty blame shifting by Mourinho.

Having said that, I also don't think that the one-off Sevilla result should be focussed on so much. Wasn't City booted out of a cup by Wigan a few weeks ago? These things happen in a cup tournament. The important thing to note is that the same Sevilla tactics got Mourinho a win against Chelsea and Liverpool. His tactics are always a game of percentages. Of course, you will lose at times but you will win more than losing.

Of course, none of this changes my emotional response to the guy. Just can't stand the twat

 

[Jonno]

Ok. If we leave city out, then what are we judging him on? If basing it just from the past few weeks:
- won against Chelsea
- comeback win against palace
- won against LIVERPOOL
- Lost with a dismay performance against Sevilla
- won against Brighton with admittedly timid display

Hardly a team in crisis. Do we seriously believe there is a manager that can better that result? Maybe Pep if we give him unlimited funds. But he still lost to Liverpool. And had a hard time against palace.

I am realistic. If we do have unlimited funds, of course I would prefer Pep, as I believe his football is superior. But the disclaimer is he will need the right (great) players. You think he would have won the title with Leicester like Raneiri? So given the current situation, I would take Mourinho 10 times out of 10 as Pep would have us playing like LVG. That was the zombie football period that I would like not to repeat (and I am supportive of LVG during his tenure here). What would Pep do when he is told he does not have money to upgrade on Shaw, Young, Valencia and Darmian? Make them world class? Don't kid yourself.

You’ve got it spot on.

 

[Return of the Manc]

You are right. But there are a few things he did/is doing wrong:

1) His treatment of Martial. Don't kid yourself, Martial would be doing a lot more if he was at City or Liverpool or even Arsenal, much as I hate to say it. Martial is our best asset and Jose needs to get the best out of him. What was the need of moving him to the RW when Sanchez arrived when he was scoring before that --- it disrupted his form.

2) Needs to motivate Pogba and manage him better. Don't ask me how, its' his job. But clear as day that Pogba is very talented and should be doing more.

3) The Sevilla loss is unforgettable and a kick to the guts regardless of improvement in the league. Can't do anything about it, but just saying it was Jose's fault.

@Listar And this is what I mean- There is clearly ways that Jose is particularly not getting the best out of the squad. We have been scraping victories and not particularly being strong in our method of victory because he is making subtle mistakes.

Again, not considering City's squad - has he managed to get the best of Martial? I don't think so - apart from the fundamental obvious of him not being a left winger- when martial did find some form he would replace him with Sanchez and shift him to the right. Earlier on the season- soon as there was a drop of form Martial gets replaced with Rashford and vice versa.

Has he managed to get the best out of Rashford? I think alot of our fans have forgotten about how clinical this lad can be - because during that couple of months Lukaku could not score a goal; we didnt try anything different & lukaku was given a free ride that apart from matic that no one else would get. There is clear favouritism.

Then there is Pogba - a midfielder that clearly isnt a CDM & yet played half the season as a partner to matic playing deeper than he is particularly good at. It took a hell of a long time to try a something else and for Mctomminay to enter the squad. Shaw (who im not even much of a big fan of) made his way through to the team and instantly dropped for almost no reason. He complains about ball's not being played in between the lines from defence & yet the guy wouldnt even sniff at playing Blind there because he is simply not his type of footballer.

Then there is the game against Chelsea last season where we played 352 ( a formation that would manage to get the best out of 3/4 of the squad including Rashford & martial playing as strikers and pogba having freedom to play further up, players like valencia & young further up) - and it was imo our best performance under Mourinho & it goes within an instant never to return again.

The guy can simply be close minded, unfair and delusional. I dont like talking about Pep but even though he himself has levels of favourtism - he would be able to see that Pogba & Martial, Lingard, Rashford, Mata, Bailly, Smalling, Blind, Shaw, Valencia, Young etc etc are capable of playing a decent level of football and tried to find a method of making something work that inccoperated these players in a team and in a formation.

Instead what we have is Jose who wants players clearly for a 4231 and nothing else - he has no intention to create something with players at his disposal & has therefore rightfully or wrongly started; lied about some personality issues. He needs players for a 4231 & thats what we see him crying for.

BTW- buying Lindelof when there were clear gaps in the squad; what we saw was Pep recognising his weaknesses in the squad and extra money or not went to sort it out. We added another CB whilst loaning out better younger defenders; whilst marginalising a better ball playing defender in blind. How different could that be instead of Lindelof we had added another midfielder? That again is a significant fault in this seasons transfer window by Jose. Hell I'd say that having mkhitarayan when mata & even lingard was here did nothing either. The guy is simply not flexible in the slightest & is stuck in his tried and tested methods.

You reckon Jose would have Silva & De Bryune playing this CM like roles they are playing now? No chance.

 

[Listar]

You are right. But there are a few things he did/is doing wrong:

1) His treatment of Martial. Don't kid yourself, Martial would be doing a lot more if he was at City or Liverpool or even Arsenal, much as I hate to say it. Martial is our best asset and Jose needs to get the best out of him. What was the need of moving him to the RW when Sanchez arrived when he was scoring before that --- it disrupted his form.

You are right with Martial to some extent. However I like to point out that Mourinho did improve him. When he came on for Sanchez, it was light and day in terms of the shape of the team. When we do not have the ball, Martial was where he needed to be while Sanchez was all over the place before. What Mourinho failed to do, and is constantly trying, is to give Martial bravery in attack. He is trying to encourage him to attack the defenders, but as per Mourinho assessment, he sometimes hide when he is not on form, and it is obvious when he gets the ball and stop, looking for option when he should just trust his skills and go. As a United player, you should never receive the ball and look for options. You should always have a plan before receiving the ball. Lampard of Chelsea in tandem with Drogba, Gerrard with Suarez, the United midfield of old, Hazard when he picks the ball, Sanchez to a certain extent.

On another note, I do agree that the arrival of Sanchez was disruptive, and I would have like him to replace Jesse. But do not forget Jesse was in top form as well. If you give me an option again, I would still welcome the arrival of Sanchez. Next season when he is bedded in, I expect great performance.

 

[Listar]

I completely disagree with Mourinho's latest comments. He is just throwing the players under the bus. Incidentally the same bus he has taught them to park. It is not as if for the entirety of his spell at United they were playing a fast buildup game. Mourinho had no problem with the playing style so far, and rightly so because he was getting the results. Suddenly media and fans are up in the arms about his style of play and he comes out with the line that he is pissed off because the team didn't carry out the instructions of attacking play that he drilled into them for 2 days. 2 days!! I mean come on! Even if that were true, they aren't going to suddenly be able to reverse something they have been taught over the last 2 years. This just comes across as petty blame shifting by Mourinho.

Having said that, I also don't think that the one-off Sevilla result should be focussed on so much. Wasn't City booted out of a cup by Wigan a few weeks ago? These things happen in a cup tournament. The important thing to note is that the same Sevilla tactics got Mourinho a win against Chelsea and Liverpool. His tactics are always a game of percentages. Of course, you will lose at times but you will win more than losing.

Of course, none of this changes my emotional response to the guy. Just can't stand the twat

That's because we are unlike your team, being one dimensional and can't change. That's one of the reason you are not second. Pep is as stubborn as your Klopp, but at least he has the finances to back that up. We, under SAF, were flexible. We would go to a "lesser team" and pound them, and in another match goes to Barca and park the bus getting a win from a screamer.

I expect no less from the current United. The real United way is to be flexible, attack and defend as required, and winning (but with professionalism) comes first. People likes to distort SAF tenure at United as attack attack attack. But that is far from the truth and one of the biggest trait he has, is flexibility. You don't get to build 3 great teams with limited budget by just playing one way.

I sincerely hope Klopp will never change, because if he did like in the game at anfield against us where he got a 0-0 draw, then Liverpool may win the league.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Is it really blindly? In the case of Shaw, I really wouldn't say so. I really want the guy to make it here: he's young, English, extremely talented, but more than one manager has called him out.

Even yesterday, I was screaming at the tv for him to overlap on the left side because of how narrow our forwards were, but he simply refused to do it.

And is that Shaw’s fault or a lack of coaching to do so? We have seen it with Martial. Receives ball at feet and rarely makes an overlap. These are issues that can be coached. If Jose has no idea how to coach simple attacking movement or neglects to do so, he has no right to question the mentality of our players.

But would you say it again if he does win a title for us?

What? That’s a strange question. Obviously I wouldn’t say it if he wins one. But I say it because I obviously believe he won’t. He has not created any semblance of a footballing identity here. Instead we approach each game reactively. It’s a scattergun approach that in no way plays to the strengths of the squad and gets the most out of it.

Pogba, Sánchez, Matic, Martial, Lukaku, Bailey, Rashford, Mata, Shaw, De Gea.

We have an enviable squad that should be forcing a real title challenge. Enough of these “need to ship players out” rubbish. This excuse has been used far too many times since SAF left. It’s Jose’s job to get them onside and motivated and to create that winning mentality. True his reactionary tactics have won us big games recently but by and large we have no been a coherent attacking force. Nowhere near. And the sorts of performances we are putting out are not signs of a squad ready to take a title any time soon. For that, you have to look at how Pep has gotten City playing.

 

[haram]

And is that Shaw’s fault or a lack of coaching to do so? We have seen it with Martial. Receives ball at feet and rarely makes an overlap. These are issues that can be coached. If Jose has no idea how to coach simple attacking movement or neglects to do so, he has no right to question the mentality of our players.

Are you that naive to think that Jose Mourinho, winner of titles in every country he had managed in, does not know how to coach simple attacking movement? Really sit there and think if that shit actually makes sense.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Are you that naive to think that Jose Mourinho, winner of titles in every country he had managed in, does not know how to coach simple attacking movement? Really sit there and think if that shit actually makes sense.

Well he’s not bloody showing it here is he?

 

[haram]

Well he’s not bloody showing it here is he?

So you know you’re wrong. Good.

Please explain to me why our home form is much better this year compared to last year.

 

[SwSw]

Manchester United have not spent enough money to compete at the highest level. In 2008, Sheikh Mansour acquired Manchester City and since then, Manchester United has faced a chronic lack of investment – the polar opposite of Manchester City. The effects of this negligence experienced lag, until 2013 when Ferguson retired.

So how is it that Ferguson was still able to compete?

• Ferguson was a football genius.
• Having Ferguson at the helm for almost 27 years means we were able to develop efficiencies. A typical example of this is the 'winning mentality' – it became ingrained in the culture of the club and mean't we could send out a midfield of Rafael, Gibson, O'shea and Fabio go on to beat Arsenal 2-0.

We were riding off of the back of Ferguson for a LONG time. I'm sure I've said nothing new so far, but let's take a look at the numbers.

Net Expenditure by Manchester United and Manchester City 2008 - 2017

Between 2008 and 2017: * Manchester United: -£584m * Manchester City: -£1,056m. In 10 years, Manchester City's net expenditure is almost twice as much as ours. You might say - "but, around 75% of Manchester United's expenditure has happened in the last 4 years. We DO compete now."

You are correct, but to counter that – Falcao, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Depay, Schweinsteiger and Mkhitaryan have all since left the club.

We spent around £190m on acquiring those players and in all cases, they have left within two seasons to either play in a worse league, a worse team, or both. Could anything be a better illustration that these were bad signings?

Secondly, Manchester City have pumped considerably more money, more consistently, and over a longer period of time to acquire talent. Investments take time to reach maturity and their players have had the time to grow and develop with the club.

Is four years of investment really enough to catch up with 6 years of negligence?

Let's look at how this has translated in the world of football:

UEFA Club Coefficient Rankings of Manchester United and Manchester City 2008 - 2017

The club coefficient rankings are determined by the results of clubs in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League over the previous five seasons, as well as by the coefficient of the clubs' association.

The graph shows that since 2010, we have faced a continuous drop in our position, whilst Manchester City have continuously risen. The amount we spend, directly translates into results.

When Ed Woodward took charge, he made numerous comments about the state the club was in, and also his desire to see a greater number of Manchester United player in the Ballon D'or list. Now yes, you may argue it's influenced by popularity, but it illustrates the influence of our spending quite well:

Players in the Ballon d'Or Shortlist from Manchester United and Manchester City 2008 - 2017

I've excluded players that joined us in the 3 months before the awards – Di Maria, for example, was shortlisted after his performances for Real Madrid before joining us.

You can see a complete dip in the number of world class players in the squad, in stark contrast to Manchester City's regular appearance in the shortlist.

One question I had after this, was how do the likes of Atletico Madrid and Juventus compete in Europe even though they have spent less than us?

My theory is that whilst not the only factor, a significant factor is the explosion in the value of the Premier League. The value of the latest Premier League TV rights is £3.5bn, to put that in perspective, La Liga's latest TV deal is estimated at £1.7bn. That's over double – and this translates into the amount we have to spend, in comparison to the amount a team like Atletico Madrid would spend for an equal value player.

Combine that with some absolutely awful business, and you have a delayed onset of results on the field.

BUT, there are positive's here.

• We are now investing more in the club, not quite as much as Manchester City, but it's a start.
• If you look at the UEFA Coefficient, recent trophies have enabled us to improve our position. There is a noticeable improvement in results and the trend is going in the right direction.
• As much as this sub would have you think he is the devil of progressive football, Jose Mourinho has got us scoring more goals. In fact, take a look at the graph below, we are ever so slowly beginning to head back towards Sir Alex Ferguson territory for goals scored.

Goals Scored Per Season by Manchester United and Manchester City 2008 - 2017

• Mourinho's also got our defence heading closer to Sir Alex Ferguson territory. I would argue that this is one of the worst defences on paper, that we've had in a decade – yet we are solid and there's SO much room to improve it.

Goals Conceded Per Season by Manchester United and Manchester City 2008 - 2017

Conclusion:
We are heading in the right direction under Mourinho. The data doesn't lie and I've deliberately picked broad points to try and avoid the 'cherry-picking' accusations. We have two ageing wingers, playing as makeshift full backs and a non-existent right wing. We have to invest there, without fail. Give it another summer, just one more season and let's return to the numbers. If the investments continues, the results under Mourinho absolutely will follow and we are beginning to see the start of that in the graphs above. Mourinho's a proven winner and we'd be mad to throw the club into a period of further instability as we transition into a new style of football. There are hidden efficiencies to keeping the same manager around and allowing him to implement his own identity, with his own players, over an extended period.

 

[Listar]

And is that Shaw’s fault or a lack of coaching to do so? We have seen it with Martial. Receives ball at feet and rarely makes an overlap. These are issues that can be coached. If Jose has no idea how to coach simple attacking movement or neglects to do so, he has no right to question the mentality of our players.



What? That’s a strange question. Obviously I wouldn’t say it if he wins one. But I say it because I obviously believe he won’t. He has not created any semblance of a footballing identity here. Instead we approach each game reactively. It’s a scattergun approach that in no way plays to the strengths of the squad and gets the most out of it.

Pogba, Sánchez, Matic, Martial, Lukaku, Bailey, Rashford, Mata, Shaw, De Gea.

We have an enviable squad that should be forcing a real title challenge. Enough of these “need to ship players out” rubbish. This excuse has been used far too many times since SAF left. It’s Jose’s job to get them onside and motivated and to create that winning mentality. True his reactionary tactics have won us big games recently but by and large we have no been a coherent attacking force. Nowhere near. And the sorts of performances we are putting out are not signs of a squad ready to take a title any time soon. For that, you have to look at how Pep has gotten City playing.

At least you seem like you actually understand mourinho game than the usual sheep opinion of "defensive minded" approach.

The question then would be do we want a reactive, or in better terms, pragmatic, coach? SAF, regardless of myth, is also a pragmatic coach at times. He developed certain ways to play against Barca and more obviously against Arsenal. To win titles you have to be pragmatic, unless you have city's backing like pep. Klopp and poch have their ideas of playing football, and stuck by it, but without the backing of the Arabs, they are still behind us. Would you be happy playing poch style of football sitting at 4th?

 

[Listar]

And is that Shaw’s fault or a lack of coaching to do so? We have seen it with Martial. Receives ball at feet and rarely makes an overlap. These are issues that can be coached. If Jose has no idea how to coach simple attacking movement or neglects to do so, he has no right to question the mentality of our players.

After consecutive managers, im starting to think it is shaw's fault.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Pep has spent over 250m on defenders alone. Jose has spent 65m. It's a point that frequently gets lost or underrepresented when you consider City had a far stronger spine to start with.

Or maybe Jose felt our defenders were good enough and didn't need replacement? Maybe Pep would have used that Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Matic and Lindelof money on some fullbacks and midfielders because he doesn't rate the ones we have like Jose does? Maybe Pep would have sold some of Jose's favourites like Fellaini, Rojo, Lingard and raise funds for the kind of players he needs for his own system? Maybe the fact that he hasn't had to spend money on 2 keepers here like at City would have left some money for him to strengthen other positions? I'm really sick of reading this 'but City spent x on full backs' excuse like we're Stoke who haven't been able to spend anything. They bought players in positions they felt they need it the most for Peps system to work like Jose did for us.

The money we spent on Mkhi, Lindelof, Matic and Lukaku could have gotten Pep the same number of players he got at City, unless you want to delude yourself that if Pep came here we'd still be persisting with Young and Valencia with their inability in attack and Smalling who can't pass forward after two seasons telling him we don't have money and he can't $100 million on fullbacks. I know Pep's spending is crazy buy City have been spending long before he came. Its clicking for him because he got the right players, got rid of the right players and whatever system he's using is working. Jose is trying his best but the players he bought and the system he's using is just not working out for him,and that's all on him. Enough on this Pep spent on fullbacks excuse, if Jose really felt they were as shite as you guys keep making out he would have done something about. Right now he's struggling to keep keep hold of Rojo and Fellaini, yet when we're playing hoofball next season some of you will still be using 'our players are shite' or 'Pep spent $** million on midfielders/defenders' as an excuse to defend him likes it's someone elses bloody fault

 

[Adisa]

Was looking at this again.
He complains about being aggressive and fast build up attacks.
He then says we've been training for two days.
Maybe that's the problem. The teams that do it well are good at it because they're constantly doing it.
It's become habitual for them. It again boils down to the problem of tactics and way of playing constantly changing.
Why don't we practice being aggressive and a faster build-up play constantly?
If you think about it, it's normal not to be good at something you don't do often.

 

[Kapardin]

After consecutive managers, im starting to think it is shaw's fault.

Bit of both. I don't think Shaw is as bad as Jose says, but he is also not good enough for our ambitions (league, CL) and so Jose is exaggerating his mistakes to deliberately force his exit. Would fetch us a fee and free up wages for another FB.

 

[Listar]

Or maybe Jose felt our defenders were good enough and didn't need replacement? Maybe Pep would have used that Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Matic and Lindelof money on some fullbacks and midfielders because he doesn't rate the ones we have like Jose does? Maybe Pep would have sold some of Jose's favourites like Fellaini, Rojo, Lingard and raise funds for the kind of players he needs for his own system? Maybe the fact that he hasn't had to spend money on 2 keepers here like at City would have left some money for him to strengthen other positions? I'm really sick of reading this 'but City spent x on full backs' excuse like we're Stoke who haven't been able to spend anything. They bought players in positions they felt they need it the most for Peps system to work like Jose did for us.

The money we spent on Mkhi, Lindelof, Matic and Lukaku could have gotten Pep the same number of players he got at City, unless you want to delude yourself that if Pep came here we'd still be persisting with Young and Valencia with their inability in attack and Smalling who can't pass forward after two seasons telling him we don't have money and he can't $100 million on fullbacks. I know Pep's spending is crazy buy City have been spending long before he came. Its clicking for him because he got the right players, got rid of the right players and whatever system he's using is working. Jose is trying his best but the players he bought and the system he's using is just not working out for him,and that's all on him. Enough on this Pep spent on fullbacks excuse, if Jose really felt they were as shite as you guys keep making out he would have done something about. Right now he's struggling to keep keep hold of Rojo and Fellaini, yet when we're playing hoofball next season some of you will still be using 'our players are shite' or 'Pep spent $** million on midfielders/defenders' as an excuse to defend him likes it's someone elses bloody fault

Now now let's not revise history. Are you not one of them that said pre-mourinho that the most urgent positions that needs addressing is the striker and midfield? I am sure if we have Aguero and Fernandinho in our squad we would have look at upgrading our fullbacks.

Don't be argumentative for the sake of it.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

So you know you’re wrong. Good.

Please explain to me why our home form is much better this year compared to last year.

It is better and there is no doubt that we have improved, but we are far from a title winning team. I would argue that we have been getting by more on individual ability than a real team coherence.

Also, I hadn’t said I was wrong. I acknowledged that Jose won titles but I didn’t agree he’s showing real attacking nous during his time here. He hasn’t. We are so disjointed and are probably the least fluid out of the top 4 and that’s not down to a lack of personnel or transfers. We have the players to be much better.

 

[haram]

It is better and there is no doubt that we have improved, but we are far from a title winning team. I would argue that we have been getting by more on individual ability than a real team coherence.

Also, I hadn’t said I was wrong. I acknowledged that Jose won titles but I didn’t agree he’s showing real attacking nous during his time here. He hasn’t. We are so disjointed and are probably the least fluid out of the top 4 and that’s not down to a lack of personnel or transfers. We have the players to be much better.

So you acknowledge that he does know how to coach simple attacking movement? Yes? If your answer is no, you are simply wrong and deluded. A manager of his stature obviously knows how to coach simple attacking movement. You were implying he couldn't. That is just flat out wrong and incorrect.

There is a pattern and movement with Mata on the right especially when teams sit deep against us at OT. Do you think Jesse's form at number 10 is just a coincidence? Do you not notice his runs into zones on the right hand side trying to pull defenders away with his movement? His link play in these areas? It is a result of attacking patterns worked on in training. When Rashford comes on against Palace and keeps width on the left to open space, do you not think we have plays for these situations? What do you think we really do on the training ground? Just work on defensive shape?

Turning last years draws into wins at OT is not just down to individuals. Suddenly everyone rates Mata when he has being doing this work all season on the right. People just choose to ignore it or didn't realise it. When I was saying he was offering balance to the team on that side I was laughed at.

You understand that our win against Liverpool was partly due to the fact that Liverpool sacrifice defence in order for their attack to work the way it does? Can not being a real DM not picking up danger with the long ball to Lukaku. Arnold positioning himself on the outside to get ready for an attack rather than defend Rashford? These subtle things matter at the highest level. A 'fluid' attack is not enough. All we did was defend with a narrow defence and we deleted their entire attack. We didn't allow them to win the ball with a higher press which is how a lot of their attacks are initiated.

Mourinho knows how high presses work, how low blocks work, how to win in both situations. We need to improve our transitions and counter attacks, I acknowledge that, especially away from home. He will fix it.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Now now let's not revise history. Are you not one of them that said pre-mourinho that the most urgent positions that needs addressing is the striker and midfield? I am sure if we have Aguero and Fernandinho in our squad we would have look at upgrading our fullbacks.

Don't be argumentative for the sake of it.

Well you can argue that if he had a De Gea and Martial he would not needed to buy a keeper and left winger. Or you could argue that instead of the 7-8 players Jose bought he would have bought another 7-8 players who would have changed our season. At least I know Pep definitely won't buy players like Lukaku, Matic, Mkhi and probably Pogba as they don't fit his system. This argument /excuse works both ways. Why are we even talking about full backs, are they the reason our attackers look they've never met? Our biggest concern right now is how our attacking players with some very good players in it looks so shite. How you guys have spun this to a full back thing I don't know, especially as some of the fullbacks /CB's Pep bought are players we used to laugh at on here. Players who are dodgy in defense who Pep needs more for their attacking contributions, definitely not Jose kind of defenders.

 

[breakout67]

Can’t believe the amount of people blindly buying the whole mentality bullshit and the need to ship out and in.

We have the players to force a real title challenge. Jose has failed to create a progressive culture and style here and now he’s spouting BS. He’s failed to get the most out of a superbly talented squad.

Said it before and I’ll say it again. We will never win a title under Jose, and his lack of progressiveness will hurt us in the long term. Get rid.

Yep, just play progressive and we'll win what we want. Where can I donate to your cult of football theocracy?

How naive can someone be to think that there is only one way to play. In fact, arguably the best team in the world, Barcelona, play a very pragmatic style of football. They play nothing like Barcelona teams in the last 10 years. Juventus have been a far better team than us, playing classical Italian football.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

No issue if it were just Shaw. He has been a disappointment and I dont see why Jose has persisted with him if he rates him so lowly. Should have made up his mind sooner than nearly 2 years into his tenure. I'd just sell him and be done with it instead of constantly moaning about the player.

Then again, it's not just Shaw. He's been having a go at a lot of our players. They're apparently all terrible and he's done an incredible job to get us second against unfavourable odds.

Uhh.. what? When should he have made this decision? Every man and his dog has been crying out for Shaw to be given more chances. Mourinho obliged too but Luke has consistently failed to impress with his biggest issue being his lack of desire for the shirt. Had Mourinho gotten rid of Shaw earlier, there'd be mass hysteria on this site as to why we let a "promising" left back leave at the age of just 22.

How has he had a go at a lot our players? You failed to mention those he has constantly defended. Pogba, Fellaini, Mata, Sanchez, Rashford etc.

 

[Denis79]

Does everything need to be either black or white on here? Everything Mourinho does is wrong or right. The truth is usually somewhere inbetween like with everything else in life. Before I start my ramble I just have to say that I didn't want Jose here but those things are not up to me.

Our playingstyle has been very poor at times and the blame should be on Mourinho but the lack of certain results are as much on the players. You can't argue that the players at times look completely devoit of passion and lethargic. This is Mourinhos job to remedy I 100% agree but the reason they are not giving 100% on the field is absolutely not completely his fault. These are supposed to be professional people being paid incredible money to do their jobs 90-180 minutes a week. Mourinho was hired by the men in charge just like the players. They are expected to give 100% no matter they feel about the current leadership. You have to remember that players like Pogba signed for Mourinho and has no valid excuse to sulk and try to sabotage the team because he simply isn't happy with management, his employer is not Mourinho. Mourinho was absolutely right to call the players out, there is no denying some of them ate acting like children instead of very well paid professionals but I also think he should have diverted some of that criticizm on himself. He's hired to make a gameplan and get results the players are hired to do their job to the best of their abilities.

I don't like our style of football at all, I think we're boring and slow and that's on Mourinho but when we concede a goal because a player can't be arsed to do what he's paid to do I blame the player. It's Mourinhos job to motivate the players beyond giving 100% it's his job to get them better than they are but not to motivate them to just do what they are paid for, that should be implied for anyone considered to be professional.