I think that's a excuse, mate. Our defensive record is excellent this season.
It's the attack that's fallen behind, desired having excellent players there as well.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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It's the attack that's fallen behind, desired having excellent players there as well.
Not against Seville it didn't, and it isn't the only way to win games. Since Mourinho has come in people have bought into the myth that winning and playing attacking football are mutually exclusive (spoiler alert: they aren't). We're Manchester United ffs not Burnley, is it really so bad to want us to play a proactive and attractive brand of football? Seville aren't a top side, we didn't get an away goal so we had to go for the throat today and we didn't. Seville will draw a a strong side now they're in the quarter-finals, do you really think that when the likes of Juve or Bayern host Seville they will play like complete cowards?
I am aware?
Well, I didn't think of it as an excuse, sometimes Smalling and Valencia frustrates me, but yeah, it could be worse. On the attack issue, I wish Jose would try Sanchez Rashford and Martial together, I would say Lukaku instead of Sanchez, but the big money player can't be benched...
I wouldn't miss him but I'd apprentice his works with us, taking us to 2nd, more points than LVG, Moyes era, more goal scored.
I suppose it would depend on the replacement.
I'm still on the fence with respect to Mourinho. He is pretty good in the market but I'm not convinced by his coaching of the team. All in all were better than we were but I'm not sure we're headed right to the top.
Good balanced post. Mourinho's doing his best in his own way but it really is sad to see how poor his game management is now. Getting José in was a reactive move by United, one that never should have happened as he's just a bad fit here. The board reacted to Guardiola going to City and panicked thinking they'd better get his old rival in, just to basically keep up with the Joneses.
Mourinho's shot through of the game, especially he is obsessed with battling the posession based, high press, attacking style of Guardiola and others to the point that his modus operandi, his progressively chronic conservatism has become pathological. With United's firing power all he needed do was let the players off the leash to enjoy themselves and that would have been an easy win. Instead we were anxious, pathetic and shamefully cowardly at home to a team in 5th place in la liga.
I feel sorry for our flair players who look crippled with anxiety. No movement, no chemistry and no creativity, instead they have to play hoof ball to bypass midfield. Same shyte over and over again. I don't want to see Mourinho at United after the summer for another frustrating season of stifled stodge. Hopefully the board will have seen enough.
I agree with you we shouldn't have a massive clear out as we've got a good team put together now. We do need a couple of class defenders and a controlling midfielder to back up what is our best set of attacking players since Fergie's time.
Most of all, we need a creative attacking and contemporary manager who can coach fluent football that gets the most out of our footballers.
We are far better than that stench of a performance.
Mourinho's steadied the ship to a degree and we thank him for that but the danger is now that given another season he will not only continue to stifle our creativity but may go on to destroy everything good that he has put in place.
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Jose should stick to what he knows. He builds a solid defence, a powerful midfield topped with a shithouse maniacal hulk of a striker at point. At Man Utd, he tries to amalgate into a semi-more-attacking football with a solid defensive base. We're neither here nor there. Our defence is not rock solid, especially when Bailly is out. We have Pogba in midfield, who offers nothing defensively. The less said about Fellaini, the better. Our point in attack, Lukaku, is nowhere near the beasts that are Drogba or Diego Costa. If we can have a new monster defender next to Bailly, who scores from corners as well ala John Terry and Ramos, a scoring 6 foot midfielder to partner Matic, and a Tasmanian Devil tank upfront, who fights for everything and every ball, we'd see a lot of success with that team. We'd bully Pep's fairyboys into cowering slobs. Go back to basics, Jose, and get the fans back on your side.
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Like many things in today's mainstream, the discourse around football has become bipolar - two exactly opposite extremes are presented (as if nothing in between exists) and the narrative revolves around which one is right and which one is wrong. In this case we have attacking/positive versus defensive/pragmatic/negative. And it's not like that in reality. You can be conservative and still attack effectively.
In your quote you say "cynical", and I would call it intelligent. And I think this is exactly where this United team falls very short - in intelligence. There are so many players, who are considered stars, but are actually not good enough and might never be, because they lack intelligence, tactical awareness, decision making, or whatever you want to call it. You know when you want to pull your hair watching them, because they somehow manage to feck up a scoring opportunity, or miss that all important pass, or they dribble when they should pass, or pass when they should shoot, or don't slide in on the ball because they didn't expect it. Yeah, that's a lack of intelligence.
Look at Juve against Spurs - that's an intelligent team. They got outplayed for most of the two legs, they went 1:0 down away from home and needed 2 goals to advance, but they kept their composure, they stayed organized, and when Spurs made mistakes they pounced and punished them. That's maturity and intelligence, and when everything is said and done, that's real quality. Pogba can do all the tricks that he wants, but intelligent players will eat his lunch every time because they are smarter than him.
Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Lingard, Lukaku - they have potential and they might become quality players if they apply themselves and learn from Jose and from Alexis Sanchez. Lukaku is showing remarkable attitude and effort, and he is becoming one of the better players at the club (although today he made a huge mistake when he took a shot instead of passing to Rashford in the opening minutes), and Rashford and Lingard also seem to be improving, although they still lack consistency. I'm less enthusiastic about Martial and Pogba because I get the feeling that they just don't get it. Pogba might be Mourihhno's biggest mistake. What the feck was that today from him? No effort, no impact, no desire to win, just prancing around like's it's a friendly Sunday game before having a beer with his buddies.
Mourihno has always relied on intelligent players and that's the quality he always valued the most in his players. I think that he should sell Martial and Pogba and strengthen areas of the team that need it with players of his liking. Let Sanchez and Lukaku lead the front line with Lingard/Rashford/Mata filling the other spots. Get a couple of good midfielders and fullbacks, and you're good to go.
Martial and Pogba are one of those "eternal talents" that will never fulfill their potential (Sterling being another great example). They can only function in a fantastic dominating team as icing on the cake, but they will never be the ones to lead the team.
I believe Mourinho would prove to be steadying influence post Sir Alex who would finally stabilise the Club , the man we thought Van Gaal was so let him add finishing touches to squad but no more players approaching their decline .
If he wins the title next season or atleast challenges for it till the end let him continue but be prepared for change in any case and please no more Pragmatic managers.
Agree. I think most are only willing to have a pragmatic manager because of the level of under performing/mismanagement prior to this. Once we have a solid base, level of football we have to made a conscious attempt to hire attack minded managers and maintain that sort of ideology consistently.
I like this. I can't say I'm giving up on Martial or Pogba, though, yet anyway. There used to be something they said about Ronaldo, people would pull their hair out because he made a stupid play and they'd point out that he was so talented he could pick of of dozens of things to do, where lesser players only had a few choices.
The players don't know each other. They haven't played together that much. They haven't played in critical games with each other before. They don't know who's going to step up and who isn't. (well, they're learning) Mourinho doesn't know who will step up, but he's learning too.
I'm sick of the bipolar Utd fans.
Great post
He set up the team so well against Liverpool, it was a masterclass. But then, when it really counted against Sevilla, he made so many mistakes in setting up the team, and then the substitution of Pogba for Fellaini was such a blunder. It was easy to see what was coming. Why couldn’t he see?
I didn't watch the match but did he really say this. Sackable offence for me. What the feck is he saying such arrogant crap for.
because long ball defensive football is only stomach able as long as you win.
The football makes me want to quit being a fan.
That's a great point. Also, it doesn't help that the line trotted the most about Jose is that he is a results-first manager who doesn't care about the type of football but only about winning. It is no surprise then that the absence of said results or winning, even in a one-off match, goes down horribly with the fan base.
Nice post. I do feel Martial has stepped up his performance to the level of a true professional both on and off the pitch and integrated into the team and proved many doubters wrong. Pogba however left me wanting more and for a lack of better comparison, the man is slowly exposed as lacking mental grit, being moody and unable to consistently deliver, not to mention the shameless side antics despite the bad performances. He performs well when coupled with Zlatan or other dominant players like in juventus with it's mature base of leadership on pitch but don't strike me as the alpha top dog to lift a team by the scruff of the neck, boss it and lead it. Cant help to think he needed more years at Juventus and that we got Raiola'd. The theater of dreams has been offered to him and his to command and conquer yet he isn't rising up to it.
Most silliest thing I've read today. This is not the 80s where the referees let the physicality get away. This is the age of the "fairy boys". At best the "Tasmanian devil types" and "monsters" you mention will stay like pussycats at the edge of their own box hoping that the "fairy boys" somehow slip up.
I believe this game has bought him closer to the stage where some fans would never buy into his ideas. Powell for Mata substitution did it for LVG, not playing Mata yesterday was an equally grave mistake
Can't wait until he leaves. I really can't.
Mata is the only player who helps us keep possession and any sort of passing game and I don't really understand why he gets benched after every good game he has.
For the amount of money he has spent (w/ 3 transfer windows), the talent he has at his disposal, and the resources available to him he has been nothing short of a disappointment. Not because of the results which have been an erratic step in the right direction, but that you just don't see Mourinho's team having the potential to win the EPL or CL in the near future. The lack of progression and extreme inconsistently in our performances & team selection is red flag.
Mourinho continues to try and fit square pegs into round holes. Our players aren't being put in positions to succeed - leveraging their strengths and hiding their weaknesses. You can argue that its the players, but we've had too many examples of talented attacking players Mourinho has struggled with: Ronaldo, Hazard, KDB, Lukaku, Pogba, Salah, Martial, Sanchez. At the end of the day Mourinho is a manager who optimizes his way to success with the right tools. But the tools he has been gathering don't fit the profile required. We don't have intelligent experienced players. Instead we have technical, athletic, and a young group of players. He has no intention of adapting his core philosophy to maximize his current resources and is simply scrambling to fit whatever piece he can in the holes he needs. This only generates inconsistency in our results, and is highly damaging in our ability to develop/leverage our best players.
We need a manager who can develop young players, play an attacking style of football, be a good man manager, decent tactician, & leverage our spending power to assemble a deep talented squad. This formula served us well over the last two decades. Not sure why we insist on bringing on managers who don't fit that profile. Then we act shocked when they can't adapt to our expectations. How about we hire someone with the skill sets we are looking for. We don't need an amazing manager to be a successful team, we just need a decent one with skill sets that align to our club and the players we currently have.
Mourinho continues to try and fit square pegs into round holes. Our players aren't being put in positions to succeed - leveraging their strengths and hiding their weaknesses. You can argue that its the players, but we've had too many examples of talented attacking players Mourinho has struggled with: Ronaldo, Hazard, KDB, Lukaku, Pogba, Salah, Martial, Sanchez. At the end of the day Mourinho is a manager who optimizes his way to success with the right tools. But the tools he has been gathering don't fit the profile required. We don't have intelligent experienced players. Instead we have technical, athletic, and a young group of players. He has no intention of adapting his core philosophy to maximize his current resources and is simply scrambling to fit whatever piece he can in the holes he needs. This only generates inconsistency in our results, and is highly damaging in our ability to develop/leverage our best players.
We need a manager who can develop young players, play an attacking style of football, be a good man manager, decent tactician, & leverage our spending power to assemble a deep talented squad. This formula served us well over the last two decades. Not sure why we insist on bringing on managers who don't fit that profile. Then we act shocked when they can't adapt to our expectations. How about we hire someone with the skill sets we are looking for. We don't need an amazing manager to be a successful team, we just need a decent one with skill sets that align to our club and the players we currently have.
I have been defending him but this is too much...so much shite in these past 2 legs against seville...we are the top team not sevilla...how can we play like that? Faunas are turning against Jose...he wont stay her for long!
He isn’t and has never been the right fit for United. As much as Pep annoys me he would’ve been perfect for United, but he chose City and, well the rest is history.
Poch is the only other option, with the financial power we have and his ability to play attractive football while getting the best out of players, and also having a strong emphasis of a solid defence, it’s a no brainer, closest thing to SAF we can get IMO. He has turned that Spurs team into a very good side with not much cash to spend. As usual though, we will be to late, and endure another 1-2 years of this negative Mourinho crap while Real Madrid snap Poch up.
Poch is the only other option, with the financial power we have and his ability to play attractive football while getting the best out of players, and also having a strong emphasis of a solid defence, it’s a no brainer, closest thing to SAF we can get IMO. He has turned that Spurs team into a very good side with not much cash to spend. As usual though, we will be to late, and endure another 1-2 years of this negative Mourinho crap while Real Madrid snap Poch up.
Really well written post, and good points.
The question is, who would you replace him with?
The team looks disjointed, and even though we play a very negative style, we are not actually that good defensively in stopping teams and stifling them. Teams play through us so easily and we can't even counter attack effectively even though we have the players to do that. Mourinho seems to not even be able to coach this team to be good at the stuff that he is supposed to be good at and is supposed to be his bread and butter. That is the real worrying part.
The sad part for me is that his second season is supposed to be the high point according to his past history, and it has been a bit underwhelming.
My overall opinion has not changed about Mourinho, the problems that I have with him are still there and they are not based on results. It is highly unlikely that Mourinho is suddenly going to change as a manager, so people should really not be surprised by the tactics that he uses, nor the style of the football and the negative, pragmatic approach. The worry should be that he is not being good at getting the team to do what he is supposed to be good at.
The sad part for me is that his second season is supposed to be the high point according to his past history, and it has been a bit underwhelming.
My overall opinion has not changed about Mourinho, the problems that I have with him are still there and they are not based on results. It is highly unlikely that Mourinho is suddenly going to change as a manager, so people should really not be surprised by the tactics that he uses, nor the style of the football and the negative, pragmatic approach. The worry should be that he is not being good at getting the team to do what he is supposed to be good at.
I don't think Mourinho will ever be able to achieve any real success here. I mean, a real PL/CL challenge. Mind you, a challenge is all we expect and I don't think he will be able to manage even that.
He never be a glaring disaster like Moyes, and we should not be waiting for that to happen to move him on. He will always have us doing something, like a win against Chelsea here, a draw against Manchester City there, which will keep us entertained.
However, he will never be able to create a cohesive performing unit. He methods are just too stifling for any progressive minded player. The approach is far too cautious. I have seen that whenever we win the ball, none of our players bother to make runs or support the player with the ball. Everything is kind of laboured and static and it is left to the player to create something. There is just nothing there in the system itself to help the player out.
Football has progressed and teams which were mediocre earlier can also put up a decent challenge, move the ball well and press players. Teams now have to really do some good attacking work to win matches, and Mourinho is good at drawing, not so good at attacking.
I mean, my goodness, we lost to Sevilla, and could score only 1 goal against them in a two legged tye. They are 4th in the La Liga and 11 points behind 4th placed Valencia. They have a negative goal difference and even the next two teams below them have a better goal difference. They definitely struggle to score goals and are really poor away from home. If we had just come out and tried to score in the 1st leg we would have be able to smash them here . However Mourinho set this defensive tone and the players just got caught up in it and went into a shell.
He never be a glaring disaster like Moyes, and we should not be waiting for that to happen to move him on. He will always have us doing something, like a win against Chelsea here, a draw against Manchester City there, which will keep us entertained.
However, he will never be able to create a cohesive performing unit. He methods are just too stifling for any progressive minded player. The approach is far too cautious. I have seen that whenever we win the ball, none of our players bother to make runs or support the player with the ball. Everything is kind of laboured and static and it is left to the player to create something. There is just nothing there in the system itself to help the player out.
Football has progressed and teams which were mediocre earlier can also put up a decent challenge, move the ball well and press players. Teams now have to really do some good attacking work to win matches, and Mourinho is good at drawing, not so good at attacking.
I mean, my goodness, we lost to Sevilla, and could score only 1 goal against them in a two legged tye. They are 4th in the La Liga and 11 points behind 4th placed Valencia. They have a negative goal difference and even the next two teams below them have a better goal difference. They definitely struggle to score goals and are really poor away from home. If we had just come out and tried to score in the 1st leg we would have be able to smash them here . However Mourinho set this defensive tone and the players just got caught up in it and went into a shell.
I am on the fence about Mourinho. There is no guarantee of anything. There is no guarantee that we will improve if we get a new manager, the same way there is no guarantee that we will improve if we keep Mourinho and let him continue.
I would wait till the end of the season till we get a more clearer idea of our progress under Mourinho.
I would wait till the end of the season till we get a more clearer idea of our progress under Mourinho.
Ronaldo and Hazard had their best seasons under Mourihno; Lukaku is not only scoring but also improving in other aspects of his game; KDB and Salah were too young and spent a few seasons in Germany and Italy developing before coming back to EPL (not to mention there were better players in their positions and Chelsea finished 3rd and 1st in back to back seasons); Martial is doing ok; Sanchez just joined; Pogba is the only one really under performing.
Having said this, I think that the major problem with Mourihno's approach is that he trusts his players too much and gives them too much freedom. He has done this during his entire career. The problem is that he doesn't have intelligent players in this team, and they are failing to figure it out on their own. There are only two solutions to this problem: start providing (much) more instruction or sell them and get players that suit his management style.
To be clear, when I say lack of intelligence I'm referring to the incredibly frustrating failure to execute the simplest things, anticipate obvious situations, or constantly choosing the wrong option in a given situation. For example; Lukaku shooting today instead of passing to wide open Rashford who was wide open in front of the goal. Other examples:
Martial - simply fascinating how often he manages to lose the ball in promising counterattacking situations because he tries to do a little too much than the situation requires or get just that tiny bit too close to the defender and get the ball knocked away.
Pogba - what an absolute waste of physical and technical talent! A complete absence of situational awareness. He will try the same fancy trick or pass in attack and in defense, when winning and when losing, in minute 1 and in minute 91, at Old Trafford and in the little park behind the building with his friends. Just a child enjoying the game of football and how dare anyone ask him to be responsible and maybe play a bit of defense!?
Lingard, Rashford and Lukaku at least play hard and have the right attitude, so I can't criticize them too much. Rashford is very frustrating at times as well (like today with those free kicks, and why can't those crosses ever find a teammate?).
Last night was beginning of the end for Mourinho, I expect him to be gone within 12 months.
I'm not going to plead for his sacking but last night for the first time I agreed with the vast opinion that he fecked up big time. We needed that quarter final progression.
The result last night has put me off football until Saturday. We have a big game against Brighton that we can't afford to lose.
Ideally we could tie up second place comfortably, and then put all our focus into the FA Cup, subject to a win on Saturday of course.
But damn Jose, he needs to get his shit together and stop putting his pride ahead of his decisions.
The result last night has put me off football until Saturday. We have a big game against Brighton that we can't afford to lose.
Ideally we could tie up second place comfortably, and then put all our focus into the FA Cup, subject to a win on Saturday of course.
But damn Jose, he needs to get his shit together and stop putting his pride ahead of his decisions.
He got the Liverpool and Chelsea tactics correct. He just made mistakes yesterday.
No doubt this defeat is on him, but people calling for the sack are simply stupid, did they do the same when Fergie lost? We arent just that good, mourinho simply played the players who play for him, what i mean is he went for his trusted soldiers to do the job, also i think he had an eye on brighton and he gambled with which he got fecked.
The same manager was being celebrated for his tactical know how against Liverpool and i am sure mood will be better if we beat brighton. To be brutally honest, i am very dissappointed in the way we played, but also being a realistic man, i think we were never gonna win it anyway. Our defense might look great on statistics, but has been poor many times and degea has saved us alot. Also our fullbacks, can play the defensive game well, but the attacking side is not for them. The only reason they are decent is because they have decent pace.
Yes this defeat hurts a lot, the manner of it and the post match comments do nothing but rub salt in the wounds, but i think it was needed too, it showes fans and mourinho that we are not that great, we are a team of individuals and not everyone is giving their all. I still dont see another manager better than mourinho to keep us competitive and win trophies, Mourinho does need to change, we cannot be pussy cats at home no matter who the opponent. We are far behind city, they have a brilliant structure in place, they have better players, better playing style and better owners, we have similar financial strength but need to use it much better. Player like darmian, Blind, herrera, fellaini should not be good enough for the squad and Mctominay, rashford, Lingard are not good enough to be automatic starters. The squad needs a revamp. This does not mean, the manager but the players.
The same manager was being celebrated for his tactical know how against Liverpool and i am sure mood will be better if we beat brighton. To be brutally honest, i am very dissappointed in the way we played, but also being a realistic man, i think we were never gonna win it anyway. Our defense might look great on statistics, but has been poor many times and degea has saved us alot. Also our fullbacks, can play the defensive game well, but the attacking side is not for them. The only reason they are decent is because they have decent pace.
Yes this defeat hurts a lot, the manner of it and the post match comments do nothing but rub salt in the wounds, but i think it was needed too, it showes fans and mourinho that we are not that great, we are a team of individuals and not everyone is giving their all. I still dont see another manager better than mourinho to keep us competitive and win trophies, Mourinho does need to change, we cannot be pussy cats at home no matter who the opponent. We are far behind city, they have a brilliant structure in place, they have better players, better playing style and better owners, we have similar financial strength but need to use it much better. Player like darmian, Blind, herrera, fellaini should not be good enough for the squad and Mctominay, rashford, Lingard are not good enough to be automatic starters. The squad needs a revamp. This does not mean, the manager but the players.
I think for you expect means - you want him gone. If he is in top 4, he stays.
It's only a matter of time until the flora give up on him too,
The swing in that poll. 
could have made changes after 20/30 mins instead of waiting until into the second half though
left us very vulnerable to that away goal, being ineffective for so long in the game
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