He looks depressed. Never thought I'd say this but I actually miss that sly smug annoying fellow after seeing the current version who appears to think he's auditioning for Cast Away.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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The thing is only a select few managers are able to maintain a level of success for ten years or more, because they adapt. I’ve seen no signs of that from Mourinho.
So he hasn't improved at all, which is what I was saying. Giving him the captain armband (ahead of players like Young and DDG for instance) is also a mistake, it adds more pressure to his shoulders. The guy isn't a leader on the field, he gets angry and frustrated way too easily during games.
Very good point. Most people on here were happy to see him as manager because they expected trophies and title challenges despite an undesirable style of football.
Unless i have my timeline wrong, I felt it was after that game where he flirted with PSG. Was reported the players weren't happy with it and a few days later gave the most unmotivated performance at Huddersfield
The same young who kept ADM on the bench?
Yeah, the same one. He's clearly become better, more consistent and our main creative player during some games.
Judging by your comments you should start watching football.
He's just sulking all the time, barely celebrating goals as well.
I think he's starting to lose the dressing room. The team was so flat yesterday, they barely ran and got out of second gear, looked disinterested and just coasted through the game.
Really need some fire in there, get people motivated.
Fans have certainly started to turn so players are starting to do the same i think.
Really need some fire in there, get people motivated.
Fans have certainly started to turn so players are starting to do the same i think.
I honestly think Madrid job broke him and Chelsea sacking only made it worse for him.
Thats interesting. Thats the game herrera said afterwards maybe huddersfield wanted it more. To jose's dismay, saying then maybe the players should explain that to the travelling support
I've been a suppoter of Jose so far, despite not liking him before he joined, because I could see the improvement. But now even I am doubting. While there are big problems with the squad, they just don't look coached well or motivated well.
I can understnd the players being deflated after the City game as the title looked lost but its the managers job to lift them up and refocus them on the top 4 battle. He's not getting much effort out of them in general and its his job to motivate them. On its own this is a small thing for me because it could just be a small dip.
But the combination of pragmatism regarding formation, line up, tactics, with a laissez-faire approach to attack despite many of the attacking players being young has led to the team not looking like a team. They seem clueless and reliant on just crossing Moyes style or hoofing it as if Zlatan was still playing. I would expect better stylistically and tactically from almost any manager in the Prem.
Worse, even the bread and butter issues of defending set pieces and attacking from set pieces looks totally uncoached. Even the bottom of the table managers would improve these aspects. Its inexcusable.
The squad rotation has been diabolical leaving many burnt out (particularly Lukaku and Rashford), and this is mostly because he doesn't trust his whole squad or keep his squad players sharp enough through occasional rotation--they lose all match fitness and sharpness and barely look able to play when they do come on--after the favoured players are completely wiped.
He's missed opportunities in the transfer windows to really solve problems both in clearing out and purchases. What the hell are Carrick and Zlatan still doing here as players? Why did he buy Lindelof and Mhki? Pereira, Tuanzebe and TFM should all have been given minutes and developed. Yet we still have Darmian and Blind. There are actual holes in the first team (LB and RW) where there is no clear first teamer. If he had to sell to buy then bloody do so. And have backup plans when your targets don't work out (Griezmann and Perisic).
Its all very well singing that Jose has got us playing the way that United should, but he really hasn't. He pays lip service to attacking football at times, to playing youth (Gomez brief sub appearance), but it doesn't seem to be genuine--it's just not his nature.
The only reason left for sticking with him is there's no obvious replacement with a better track record. I have no answer to that but I can increasingly see the Board having to find an answer to that sooner rather than later. Because like Jose towards the end at Chelsea, I don't see him having any answers left.
I can understnd the players being deflated after the City game as the title looked lost but its the managers job to lift them up and refocus them on the top 4 battle. He's not getting much effort out of them in general and its his job to motivate them. On its own this is a small thing for me because it could just be a small dip.
But the combination of pragmatism regarding formation, line up, tactics, with a laissez-faire approach to attack despite many of the attacking players being young has led to the team not looking like a team. They seem clueless and reliant on just crossing Moyes style or hoofing it as if Zlatan was still playing. I would expect better stylistically and tactically from almost any manager in the Prem.
Worse, even the bread and butter issues of defending set pieces and attacking from set pieces looks totally uncoached. Even the bottom of the table managers would improve these aspects. Its inexcusable.
The squad rotation has been diabolical leaving many burnt out (particularly Lukaku and Rashford), and this is mostly because he doesn't trust his whole squad or keep his squad players sharp enough through occasional rotation--they lose all match fitness and sharpness and barely look able to play when they do come on--after the favoured players are completely wiped.
He's missed opportunities in the transfer windows to really solve problems both in clearing out and purchases. What the hell are Carrick and Zlatan still doing here as players? Why did he buy Lindelof and Mhki? Pereira, Tuanzebe and TFM should all have been given minutes and developed. Yet we still have Darmian and Blind. There are actual holes in the first team (LB and RW) where there is no clear first teamer. If he had to sell to buy then bloody do so. And have backup plans when your targets don't work out (Griezmann and Perisic).
Its all very well singing that Jose has got us playing the way that United should, but he really hasn't. He pays lip service to attacking football at times, to playing youth (Gomez brief sub appearance), but it doesn't seem to be genuine--it's just not his nature.
The only reason left for sticking with him is there's no obvious replacement with a better track record. I have no answer to that but I can increasingly see the Board having to find an answer to that sooner rather than later. Because like Jose towards the end at Chelsea, I don't see him having any answers left.
And then lost the dressing room the next season by moaning he needed more investment, and the players he had could not take them to the next level. Exactly what is happening now.
Agree.
That was our first big game of the season and it was against an out of sorts Liverpool side. We had to win it especially as City had already beaten them and gone to Chelsea and won there. Spurs smashed Liverpool the following weekend too.
That game just set the tone for everything we have seen from us since.
If the pundits are right and if he really has lost majority of the dressingroom, than things could go from bad to worse really, really fast.
Burnley and yesterday was especially bad, players really looked frustrated, especially Pogba having to stay so deep, Shaw looked petrified in the 2nd half when he was playing on the side close to Mourinho.
Burnley and yesterday was especially bad, players really looked frustrated, especially Pogba having to stay so deep, Shaw looked petrified in the 2nd half when he was playing on the side close to Mourinho.
Can't disagree, still annoys me the way we played that game. We were in great form and Liverpool were trash at the back, they were there for the taking. First time I really started to doubt Jose's methods too.
Having the same type of numbers despite playing in a worse team in a more difficult league is an improvement.
You have no idea what's happening now, claiming he's lost the dressing room just fits your agenda.
He's a central midfielder, numbers (goal and assists) are a bonus. His last season at Juventus was much more impressive and more consistent than so far at United regardless of stats. He was showing up in their biggest games.
He's a ball of nerves with massive pressure on his shoulders. His national team career stands the same, no real improvement whatsoever for years now. He delivers in flashes
It was the same in Van Gaal’s second season (on a larger scale to be fair to Jose). We were doing alright in the league sitting in 2nd but the football was utter dross. The toxic atmosphere eventually led to results dropping and from there there was really no way back and we ended up missing out on top 4. I fear the same here. We were well clear in 2nd last week and we have already slipped to 3rd. We are in freefall already.
Statistical analysis goes much deeper than just goals/assists. Tackles/Blocks/interceptions/key passes/passes in final 3rd/dribbles completed- you name it.
Tbh I never mentioned nor cared much for stats to begin with
Pogba is still inconsistent, true improvement would be what he showed earlier in the season but extended for several months.
Stats are a great talent to suit anyone's opinion, Mkhitaryan had a good game apparently last night if stats were to be consideres seriously.
I prefer simply watching.
The worst thing is that Southampton and Bournemouth look better at passing the ball than our players. Whenever we have the ball, we just sort of rush out without actually knowing what to do with it and mostly end up making an aimless cross, hoofing it or running into a dead end.
I just don't see anything positive happening for us at the moment. Mourinho does not know how to work on the attacking part of the game and we are struggling to score goals. Our forwards form is regressing and now even Pogba is finding it difficult to get us going.
The football is very result oriented and we play each match like a cup final, trying to somehow get a win. We don't seem to be trying to play in a certain way, unless we count constantly sitting back and hoofing the ball as our identity.
Mourinho has failed to improve any player, except maybe Fellaini. Martial and Rashford were looking set for great things but they are struggling to produce because of this ultra defensive outlook.
If we end up in another scrap for top 4, then I sorry to say we need to start looking at other managerial options.
I just don't see anything positive happening for us at the moment. Mourinho does not know how to work on the attacking part of the game and we are struggling to score goals. Our forwards form is regressing and now even Pogba is finding it difficult to get us going.
The football is very result oriented and we play each match like a cup final, trying to somehow get a win. We don't seem to be trying to play in a certain way, unless we count constantly sitting back and hoofing the ball as our identity.
Mourinho has failed to improve any player, except maybe Fellaini. Martial and Rashford were looking set for great things but they are struggling to produce because of this ultra defensive outlook.
If we end up in another scrap for top 4, then I sorry to say we need to start looking at other managerial options.
YouTube, seen a few of them post match analysis videos.
I am a very much Jose In! But I do agree with everything you have written.
Okay...and what happens after he leaves?
So, let's say after tomorrow's game, he announces that he is leaving with immediate effect. What happens next?
Please take me through the process, because I really would love to hear your plan.
Yes, I was one of those, but I am still standing by him.
I genuinely believe that he is our best chance of winning a title in the next 2-3 years.
IMO, E.Woodward should ask Jose point blank, "what do you need from me to succeed?" A good manager/boss will do this.
Just get Jose the players he needs and if he fails, E.Woodward can sack him, with a clear conscience.
And given how the market keeps increasing, if we need to sell some of those players which failed with Jose, we can still recoup the funds we spent on those players.
Either way, I think E.Woodward needs to back Jose.
Why does he though? It says a lot about Mourinho's judgement when the 2 best players in the Premier League now (Salah/De Bruyne) got push out of Chelsea by Jose, the other one he got rid of (Lukaku) he re-signed for Manchester United for £75m-90m.
He's blown £300m now on transfers at United, as it been money well spent? I would say not. I wouldn't trust him with my money put it that way if i was the Glazers.
Football's moved on, Jose still lives in 2007.
He hasn't lost the dressing room at all.
And if he has, he should weed out those players and put them in the reserves, putting them up for sale in the Summer if they don't change their attitude.
These darlings have been pretty average for us, so if they have to be sold, I won't be crying over them.
My worry is that Jose will leave us in the Summer and if that happens, we are ****ed for at least the next 3-4 years.
You make it sound like our players are delicate wall flowers.
We need players who are mentally tough and can handle difficult battles.
Those players with a weak mentality should be transfer listed and replaced with players with the right attitude and who are prepared to fight for every minute, in every single match.
Tbh I never mentioned nor cared much for stats to begin with
Pogba is still inconsistent, true improvement would be what he showed earlier in the season but extended for several months.
Stats are a great talent to suit anyone's opinion, Mkhitaryan had a good game apparently last night if stats were to be consideres seriously.
I prefer simply watching.
You mentioned "numbers (goals and assists) after I had said he was performing to a similar level at Juve.
I'd be interested to see what stats are putting Miki's performance in a good light, have you got a link?
I have absolutely no idea if he has lost the dressingroom whatsoever. I don't work for UTD, don't know anything that is working for UTD, don't know people that would have that sort of informations. But what I know is that if it's true that he has lost the dressingroom it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Negative football, shifting blame, publicly trashing certain players, favouritism etc...all those things add up.
Spare me that siege mentality tough guys BS please.
Personally, I think he should be given to the end of the season rather any hasty call for his head. We still have the CL to play in, not that I expect any miracle whatsoever. Finishing in the top 4 is the priority for me.
However, it is beyond the realms of possibilities that José walks out or sacked, and I want to believe that club is smart enough to take José's flirt with PSG as a warning to keep an eye on possible replacements whether for the immediate future or later. He flirts with another club, we spoke to another candidate. We have done similar with José under LvG. There is no moral compass in this business.
I can also the club using Giggs as a temporary plug for the rest of the season as they did under Moyes albeit slightly different circumstances. And as Giggs has rejected every other job under the sun, I won't be surprised that there could be something in it.
It's a gamble for the club but seeing as we are in the CL, I'd say just leave him be, as long the top 4 is not out of reach. After this season, it's their call.
However, it is beyond the realms of possibilities that José walks out or sacked, and I want to believe that club is smart enough to take José's flirt with PSG as a warning to keep an eye on possible replacements whether for the immediate future or later. He flirts with another club, we spoke to another candidate. We have done similar with José under LvG. There is no moral compass in this business.
I can also the club using Giggs as a temporary plug for the rest of the season as they did under Moyes albeit slightly different circumstances. And as Giggs has rejected every other job under the sun, I won't be surprised that there could be something in it.
It's a gamble for the club but seeing as we are in the CL, I'd say just leave him be, as long the top 4 is not out of reach. After this season, it's their call.
This.
If we finish top 4, I'd give Jose 1 more season. But he has to deliver next season. Enough of the excuses and gloom. He needs to be a damn winner again and show it.
Incapable of coaching basic attacking football. Our offensive play is disgraceful. Worthy of Championship shite. No attempt to work the ball, we just hoof or cross it. Lazy and predictable, and ineffective.
Once again, complete nonsense and needs to stop being branded about. His teams in the past have broken goalscoring records, outscoring some of the greatest teams Europe has ever seen in the process. To claim the most successful manager of our generation who has consistently won trophies for decades doesn't know how to coach an attack is laughable.
We've scored more goals than teams like Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea who are apparently extremely well drilled from an offensive standpoint, according to most on this forum. All this while not having our best player available for about 80% of the season. To claim it's down to individual brilliance is also wrong, considering we've created the highest percentage of our chances instead the opponent box out of any of the top 6 teams. Not to add teams like Chelsea and Spurs have better individual offensive players than us. Kane is the best striker on the planet is on course to breaking records set by some of the best players the EPL has ever seen. Hazard has regularly been the best player in the league.
Your statement that it's also crosses and hoofballs is also incorrect btw. We make 64 long balls per goal, Tottenham have more with 68, Liverpool close behind at 60. We also make 22 crosses per goal, Tottenham also the same at 22, Liverpool at 20, City at 19, Chelsea at 21. So your opinion going around to all the threads claiming we're the only team who cross, despite being almost identical to our rivals is also off the mark. So if we have no idea how to attack, despite having the third best offence in the league, taking a higher percentage of our shots from closer to the enemy goal than all our rivals, despite having very similar 'hoofball' and cross tactics (that you touched on) to our rivals, I really don't know where to start.
We have offensive, defensive and tactical coaches who go through all phases of the game with the players - to suggest otherwise is laughable.
He might not put as much effort into the attack as other managers, nor may he be as open to risks as some other managers, but to suggest he simply can't coach an attack is lazy. You don't go from one of the lowest percentage teams in almost every offensive facet from the top 6 last season to being one of the best simply by luck. If anything I think our lack of goals and form is mainly due to the fact that the league is done and is apparent from the player's reactions and mood.
You can say a lot of the games we didn't play well and those stats are down to us scoring after we've already scored early in the season and what not but that's the common case for all teams. If you were to take away City's late goals and disregard them as not as important or impressive, they'd be nowhere near as far ahead as they are. Games are played for 90 minutes, goals are as important no matter when they're scored. In fact teams scoring a flurry after breaking the deadlock has been the case since the sport has began. The weaker teams defend until they get broken down, which then prompts them to have no option but to attack, leaving more space to get punished, it's how it's always been.
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It is silly to say that a multiple European cup winning manager got lucky in his career and just relied on individual quality for 20 years without coaching an attack. And that such a coach is only capable of teaching Moyesesque crossing otherwise.
I agree that Jose has to take some blame because even when we were scoring 4 goals, the overall play was underwhelming. But the bulk of the blame lies on the mediocre forwards we have. It is amazing how they are still overrated after 3 years of scoring only a meagre amount of goals. Add to that, we lack players like Sanchez, Kane, Hazard or De Bruyne -- these players elevate the overall level of their teammates as well. Even the much admired Pochettino won't get the likes of Rashford, Mata, Lingard etc to play pretty football anytime soon. Even Martial is more hype than anything, though he is probably the most talented of the bunch.
I agree that Jose has to take some blame because even when we were scoring 4 goals, the overall play was underwhelming. But the bulk of the blame lies on the mediocre forwards we have. It is amazing how they are still overrated after 3 years of scoring only a meagre amount of goals. Add to that, we lack players like Sanchez, Kane, Hazard or De Bruyne -- these players elevate the overall level of their teammates as well. Even the much admired Pochettino won't get the likes of Rashford, Mata, Lingard etc to play pretty football anytime soon. Even Martial is more hype than anything, though he is probably the most talented of the bunch.
We'll see. If this continues we will be nowhere near the top. And then I wonder whose fault that will be then.
No-one is saying it isn't Jose's fault though? He's the manager of the club, of course he's also part of the blame, but to simply say it's because he can't coach an attack and because under any other manager these players would be scoring 50 goals a season and winning titles is off the mark. Both the players and manager are equally to blame, some of the mistakes the players make is schoolboy stuff - something that professional players shouldn't have to be walked through. Players at this level need to be able to think for themselves, games never go as envisioned, so they need to be able to adapt to the game as it goes, we can't just blame the manager for everything.
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