With respect you are very, very wrong, there is a reason Pep said we needed 10 new players. Things started going South half way through the title winning season but (mainly thanks to Courtois and Eden) we had enough to hang on. Conte inherited a team that couldn't defend or attack very well, with a lot of deadwood.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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I really do wonder sometimes if there are posters who are literally paid to come on forums and argue to the death in favor of certain players/managers. People on here sometimes act as if it’s their wife or mother being criticized.
I used to wonder about it with Wazza nearing the end of his time here when we had people who were praising him for completing a pass, but the last few pages here surpassed even that.
I used to wonder about it with Wazza nearing the end of his time here when we had people who were praising him for completing a pass, but the last few pages here surpassed even that.
I don’t agree that Jose has nothing to prove. If anything he has more to prove, he’s along with Pep the best managers in the world thus if anything they should be judged more harshly.
Any new manager would again start talking about having to "build" and needing "time " and "at least three transfer windows" and his own "players" and I'm not sure I can ever face that again so I hope Jose never leaves and that I predecease him.
Whilst it seems like cliche responses, without proper planning from the board I genuinely do believe incoming managers need that sort of time frame with us. Our lack of identity both in playstyle and recruitment usually leaves us with a squad of players all specialising in different areas/styles.
A lot of the decisions the board has made post SAF have come across as impulse decisions. Hoping for the best rather than working towards the best. No matter how good a manager is, if he doesn’t have a what he needs to work with it’s going to take them time.
I really do think we need a DOF or at least someone who can overlook that aspect of the football, someone who will work in tandem with the manager. We’re the only top team I can think of who doesn’t.
After the first few games this season, we had the best attack and the best defence in the league. Few games later - the best defence and the second best attack. Now both defence and attack are third best in the league. The threads about our defensive record have disappeared.
According to xG stats, United should have been 6th in the league. Because even Arsenal have had a better ratio of created/conceded chances. It is a useful but still a limited statisitical tool to evaluate performances. Therefore, let's hope that United are 2nd because of being better than the other top 4 contenders and not because of being more lucky or because DDG was exceptional in some games. If I'm honest, I don't quite believe that United have been better. Imo, the easy CL group (compared to that of Chelsea and that of Spurs) has helped the league campaign.
Thing is, without DDG this team is probably worse than Spurs and Liverpool. Which cannot be justified by refering to City's money. Because United have spent much more than Spurs and Liverpool in every transfer window.
In the two seasons prior to Jose and Guardiola (14-16), City won 9 pts more than United over 76 league games. Since then City have won 24 pts more than United over 58 games. The difference has become much bigger.
The second half of the season will be make or break for Jose. This season can still be very successful. But the performances have to improve significantly. Luck can take you only so far.
According to xG stats, United should have been 6th in the league. Because even Arsenal have had a better ratio of created/conceded chances. It is a useful but still a limited statisitical tool to evaluate performances. Therefore, let's hope that United are 2nd because of being better than the other top 4 contenders and not because of being more lucky or because DDG was exceptional in some games. If I'm honest, I don't quite believe that United have been better. Imo, the easy CL group (compared to that of Chelsea and that of Spurs) has helped the league campaign.
Thing is, without DDG this team is probably worse than Spurs and Liverpool. Which cannot be justified by refering to City's money. Because United have spent much more than Spurs and Liverpool in every transfer window.
In the two seasons prior to Jose and Guardiola (14-16), City won 9 pts more than United over 76 league games. Since then City have won 24 pts more than United over 58 games. The difference has become much bigger.
The second half of the season will be make or break for Jose. This season can still be very successful. But the performances have to improve significantly. Luck can take you only so far.
Good post.
I don't know anything about xG stats but agree with your overall point. I think we're quite lucky to have the points we do and be in the position we are.
To be fair I thought we'd have slipped from 2nd by now. Credit I suppose for hanging on whilst not playing well.
I still think we'll finish 3rd or 4th and an embarrassng number of points off City. The football just isn't good enough to warrant higher and it looks to be getting worse where as Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool seem to be on an upward curve.
A gloomy outlook I suppose but the big positive is the talents there. My prediction doesn't have to become a reality.
i find the posts you've made strange and there isn't much balance to what you say....you need to find some objectivity when it comes to Jose
on the point on the board I agree to some degree....Moyes/Woodward was a disaster with us overpaying on Fellaini, Mata and giving Rooney that bumper contract. Under LVG or transfer policy was terrible with us moving effective players on and throwing as much money as possible at Mendes....this has continued to a degree under Jose but we've thrown money at Mino as a means of securing transfers.
Mourinho's transfers have been mixed and time will tell on some.... has he addressed major issues with the squad though at RB, RW, LB? If Martial is unavailable we have no player who can play naturally on the left wing....... the answer on addressing issues is a resounding no despite spending a more than considerable amount.
Jose got 4 of his 4 signings last year and 3 of his 4 this year and yet, despite signing 7 players and inheriting some good-excellent players (De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Valencia, Young, Lingard, Rashford, Martial, Romero etc...) On top of the players he's inherited he's signed 7 players and still has holes in the squad...how can that be deemed a success?
on Fergie spending money of course he did but over the course of his entire tenure you could never say he bought success which is what Mourinho is trying to do - make no mistake on this - Fergie coached his teams and created strong attacking units based on ideas, tactics and training. Jose has failed so far in this department.
here's some statistics to back up what I've said as I don't want to rely on my opinion or gut feeling - http://therepublikofmancunia.com/did-united-buy-success-like-chelsea-and-city-course-not/
on Poch I don't understand why you feel this way and there's a reason I mentioned opinion or gut feeling in the previous sentence - you don't seem to have anything to back up the statement do you?
Poch is working with a squad assembled with a fraction of our costs.......
we buy Bailly, Lindelof for about 70 million - he buys Alderweireld (probably best CB in league) for 11
if you look at his signings many have been very astute - Davies, Alderweireld, Dele Alli, Trippier, Aurier, Wanyama all signed for the price of a Lukaku
when he has spent big on Sanchez (looks great), Son (very handy player), Sissoko (much improved this season) he's done pretty well despite not being able to shop like we do.
We can buy players for 100 million from elite clubs but he's obviously more restricted - Sanchez is their biggest signing on 27 million plus add ons
what we do know about Poch is that he can sign well, he seems a good guy who gets on well and has the respect of his players, he brings through young players, he has a good temperament, he's managed to largely keep a squad happy on small wages (who all reportedly earn less than Jesse Lingard bar Kane and Lloris), he gets his team to perform more than the sum of it's parts......
is there any bit of wonder that Fergie said he was the best coach in the PL?
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My brother was sat the row right infront of Fergie for the Burnley game.
He said Fergie was fuming all game because Sean Dyche was constantly in the 4th officials ear, even when they had just scored, trying to get leniency. Now I think the ref did a great job in that game at stopping their time wasting and carding them for it.
My brother said Fergie said something along the lines of "He wouldn't be doing that if I was down there" and it got me to thinking... if any manager was at our ground giving the 4th official shit while Fergie was in charge, Fergie would have been straight over telling them to sit the feck down.
I didn't spot it during the game but I have noticed Mou spends as much time on his arse as LvG did these days. He doesn't even seem arsed.
He said Fergie was fuming all game because Sean Dyche was constantly in the 4th officials ear, even when they had just scored, trying to get leniency. Now I think the ref did a great job in that game at stopping their time wasting and carding them for it.
My brother said Fergie said something along the lines of "He wouldn't be doing that if I was down there" and it got me to thinking... if any manager was at our ground giving the 4th official shit while Fergie was in charge, Fergie would have been straight over telling them to sit the feck down.
I didn't spot it during the game but I have noticed Mou spends as much time on his arse as LvG did these days. He doesn't even seem arsed.
He was stood up for the majority of the game. But do carry on.
Completely agree. Though I do think that we’ve improved under mourinho there seems to be something not quite right at board level, somebody posted in another thread a list of the people who run the club and I don’t think 1 of them had a footballing background, my worry is that when Mourinho fecks off we’ll be back to the same scratching around for a manager who’ll have a different philosophy and want different players. I don’t know if a director of football is the solution but there needs to be someone at the top who knows football, who knows what manager needs to come in and the right players who can work with them and not just big names and ideals that will attract the sponsors.
The era of a Fergie type manager who will stay for years and be able to run the club from top to bottom has gone.
Truth is we're not the same team without Fellaini and Bailly. We've looked spineless without them.
When everyones fit we look like we could handle any other team albeit in a defensive style. The likes of Herrera, Mata, Smalling are good squad players but we are not as solid with them in the team even though they all put in the odd big performance here and there.
When everyones fit we look like we could handle any other team albeit in a defensive style. The likes of Herrera, Mata, Smalling are good squad players but we are not as solid with them in the team even though they all put in the odd big performance here and there.
He was on his feet basically the whole game? Also he isn't very combative as basically anything he does or says gets him in trouble. If he was to do something like that he'd be getting stick for being a dick and stupid.
I can only report what I see on the TV and more often that not when the camera pans to him he's sat down, except when he gets a sudden thirst when we score and takes a swig from a lucozade bottle. An example is the farce of Smallings injury two games back and he left it to the players to sort out. Sure the players should have taken some responsibilty but as a manager he should have been screaming at them to reorganise.
I agree - you just need to look at the meticulous planning that City have undertaken for years. It's really no surprise they look superior to us in almost every way, both on and off the field. When you give one of the World's best managers a platform to perform, he will perform. From changing their youth setup, to hiring his friends, to playing and recruiting players that are reminiscent of a Pep style. That's something that any manager incoming to us at the moment wouldn't have - thus the extra time needed to get things their way. Pep came into a team very close to how he wanted it, was given the funds he asked for to bring in to get his squad where he wanted it and it's now evident in their current success.
We seem to be run as a business first and a football club second. Reports coming in recently about Mourinho being impartial about Griezmann, with the board being more eager in him due to his commercial value rectifies this. You're right, we need someone who understands football at the top. Someone who envisions an identity for us moving forward, which will be evident in our recruitment. Someone who builds towards extended success in the future rather than trying to go for short term success in the present. Whether that's with Mourinho or another manager isn't important, what's important is ensuring all incoming managers have a platform to succeed. Managers change like undies in today's game, you need to be prepared for that.
My criticism of Jose is that he is great at utilising good squads and players, but is unable to develop squad or players into being world class. This has been validated by his comments after the Burnley game.
In my opinion, we need a coach who can develop a squad with a certain playing identity rather than a stop gap solution who will utilise excessive funds to bring a trophy without providing us a distinct identity.
In my opinion, we need a coach who can develop a squad with a certain playing identity rather than a stop gap solution who will utilise excessive funds to bring a trophy without providing us a distinct identity.
We are 4 points better off than last season. Thought we were much better than last season. The difference is that we have turned two draws into wins: say the home games vs Brighton and Bournemouth. We have scored 12 goals more than last season and conceded 3 goals less. Which explains the better results.
Fortunately, the other contenders for top 4 have been doing worse than last season. Last season, 43 pts after 20 games would have us 3rd in the league and just 2 pts above 6th.
Fortunately, the other contenders for top 4 have been doing worse than last season. Last season, 43 pts after 20 games would have us 3rd in the league and just 2 pts above 6th.
Could not be because, just like us, the rest of the league is getting stronger too? Putting our position purely down to luck is way off imo. Our goals/chances dropping is only a direct consequence of our best players being unavailable for the majority of the season and our drop in form. The title basically being over must have taken it out of the squad too.
Well he wasn't on his feet against Leicester when Smalling got injured and action was needed to communicate what should be done. Instead he trusts the players to sort it out which is laughable from any top manager. Note when Nani gets a red against Real he was on the touchline with Modric before the red was back in the refs pocket as I mentioned in another thread. That quick action marked him as a great. What happened at Leicester marked him as someone who has dropped his level considerably. Its not the players fault, he's the bloody manager. No one would trust them to finish a tube of smarties! I love Jose, I love tactical masterclasses and his outmanoeuvring ways but I don't defend bang average managerial effort.
Ah the old 'whataboutism', bringing in a completely different match, to further discredit our manager. Continue discussing an argument I wasn't even engaging in though, as you were.
I don't know. Liverpool and Chelsea play in the CL. Last season they weren't in Europe which helped them. Arsenal aren't stronger, Sanchez is much worse than last season. Spurs had a very difficult CL group and decided to show that they can do it in Europe. Think their league form suffered from it and also from playing at Wembley.
Liverpool have drawn a tonne of games this season. We did the same last season and dropped points in games where we'd have 60% of the ball with a billion shots at the oppositions goal - I don't remember any xG bullshit last season stating that we should be 2nd or 3rd.
Spurs, well they went through a real tough patch and were dropping points left, right and center. But, hey, they've scored 8 goals in two games so the Poch dick riding is back.
Chelsea have been on our level throughout the season, and there's not a whole difference between us.
Arsenal are Arsenal and deserve to be where they are.
We are 2nd because we deserve to be there. We weren't dependent on luck at the beginning of the season and outscored everyone to ensure that, if there was a time where the goal would dry up, our promising start at the beginning would bail us out. It such bullshit that after 20 games in the season, we're still talking about how we're lucky to be where we are, and that other teams are better. Well, why the feck are we 2nd and they aren't?
Also, why don't people just jump ship and support a team with a better xG?
Using Liverpool and Chelsea's European exploits to explain their drop in form is plausible, but to then suggest our improvement in performances/form, despite playing in Europe both this season and last is a bit contradictory, no? The strength of the teams faced is certainly a factor, making things more difficult, but is it really as big a difference? Travelling to Russia etc. is difficult no matter the opposition, the conditions, the fatigue etc. are present no matter how strong the team you're playing is.
Not to discredit Spurs, but their group was extremely difficult on paper, in reality though, Dortmund were terrible and have been extremely underwhelming this season, same with Madrid at that stage - who were convincingly beaten by teams far inferior to Spurs in La Liga etc. The Wembley factor I'll give you, it has seemingly affected their form and it's not notorious for being a cursed ground for no reason. Sanchez hasn't been as good for Arsenal, but Ozil's form is a good as it's ever been for them, not to add the introduction of Lacazette etc. I wouldn't say they're weaker at least.
That being said, you aren't taking into consideration the relative strength of the 'smaller teams' in the league. Have we considered maybe they've just improved enough too, making it more difficult for the big teams to just cruise past and win points off them? Teams like Burnley etc. are doing extremely well this season, there's no Sunderland to get a free three points off.
Not sure what you mean. Chelsea and Liverpool had an advantage last season. United have improved despite playing in Europe.
Ah okay, fair enough mate, misunderstood you.
I am being objective as hard as I can.
The transfer market broke ever since PSG flirted with Neymar. Only 24 hrs ago, the Scousers bought Van Dijk for £75m. Let it sink in. Van Dijk costs more than Alvaro Morata or the same price as Lukaku. If Jose did that, many of us would suffer a heart failure.
This is why I keep blaming the board. You are making it sound like it’s Jose’s fault that the gaping holes haven’t been fixed. That’s not how it works. Woodward gives Jose a budget - “This is how much we are spending this summer”. Jose will now have to work within the budget by submitting the players he wants.
He has signed 7 players, his nemesis across the City has signed 17 players. Jose needed more players considering the fact that he inherited a much broken squad than Pep. Pep has spent £403m, Jose has spent £283m. Jose should have bought 20+ players by now. So I know what I am saying when I tell you the board should take the blame. 7 players are not enough.
Different era, my friend. For most parts, United were the biggest spenders. Blackburn reared it’s head in 1994/95 and they won the title. Fergie contributed to reign until Wenger arrived and United were outspending Wenger till 2004.
Roman era came, Mourinho won a couple of titles back to back and left. SAF had to readjust. He became more aggressive in the market and signed Nani, Anderson, Tevez, Vidic, Evra within a year. The rest is history.
These days, there about 6 active challengers to the title. The TV money has brought clubs like Liverpool/Spurs to the table. I wonder how SAF would have handled the situation in this era. One thing is sure though, SAF would have gotten Harry Kane instead of Lukaku. The best English strikers have always played for Man Utd apart from Shearer(and Fergie wanted him badly then).
Mourinho already told you that the transfer market does not recognise clubs like Spurs as a big club. We get to pay at least a 25% mark-up price because we are Man Utd. Have you forgotten how much Madrid wanted to sell Morata to us? How much did they sell him to Chelsea, later?
Every United manager must face this problem. Selling clubs know how much we make. They know they can haggle the price and they got nothing to lose. Worst case scenario, they get to keep the player e.g. Perisic. A player like Lindelof would have gone for £15m if Poch was the one making enquiries. Unfortunately, we just have to live with this.
I don’t rate Poch because of his pedigree. It’s got nothing to do with his managerial nous in the transfer market. Poch has no experience of winning anything. Why should we trust him that he can deliver at OT considering the pressure attached to the job? We’d have another Moyes situation on our hands. There’s no pressure at Spurs. They celebrate wilder when they finish 2nd than we do when we win the league.
Hiring Mourinho was a big step in the right direction. He is taking us upward. If he keeps us in the 2nd position till the end of the season and maybe win it next season then we can start thinking of a manager that can build on the back of that. We were in the swamp before Jose arrived, let him get us back to the top 2 teams in the country before thinking of getting someone else.
The biggest problem with Jose to me is is inability to be flexible. He seems to have the same template to everything. Fergie was able to evolve with the times. For Jose is has been one big CF up forward all on his own. Arsene is the same. He cannot change. Doubts are also creeping into me about Jose. It seems his transfers has not turned out to be good at all apart from Matic and to a lesser extent Pogba.
People seem to be happy we are 2nd, & in most seasons we would be top if it wasn't for Man Cities amazing season. What people haven't mentioned too much is we are 15 points behind City, but the teams from 3-6 are all within 6pts and gaining (Arsenal winning last night), with Chelsea 1pt behind. Many seem to be amazingly complacent we will stroll to the top four (even seeing comments such as just use the squad), which I find hard to believe, as the managers dinosaur tactics are clearing not working as they used to.
Agreed. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if we are in third place by the end of the weekend.
Think the second half of the season will decide his long term future at Man. United.
If Man. United get over this blip and comfortably secure second then his future remains in his own hands e.g. he can just wait by the phone waiting for PSG to call.
Let's say the bad form continues. Well you have Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs all ready to pounce. Arsenal will have a good run second half of the season as they always do and aren't in the CL.
Could he really survive finishing 5th? Would exactly mirror LVG's first two years at the club and you've spent more and signed much better players than Van Gaal did.
Oh no, there's no problem with the fanbase.
Just look at the state of this forum.
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This forum is internet basically. People voicing their opinions. The club, the manager, the players, the finance are not affected by us at all. Zilch effect. Mou could not care less if posters here like him or not, sheikhs could not care less if we think their money is dirty or not, nor would Poch be in any way influenced by our opinion whether he can win a trophy with Spurs or not. Our fans all over the world are still paying money to watch games on TV, to buy tickets to travel to OT and abroad, they pay for costly season tickets and buy tons of merchandise. All that came after success on the pitch and is still going on after fecking up in the league and in CL even since SAF retired. All we did is just flew a plane to tell Moyes to feck off, and I do not think Moyes was the right man anywaysOh no, there's no problem with the fanbase.
Each and every one of is entitled to our own opinion and we are spitting out hell lot of different thoughts on various topics which makes the Caf the best forum out there.
If he keeps to the 2nd then he will be safe. If he misses the 4th then he is out. I have my feeling that Jose is too rigid in his ways now. The Lukaku scenario shows that. He needs to evolve himself. SAF did it. The question is who after Jose or who if not for Jose?
This is it really, if you have a manager who is generally regarded as one of the top 3 in the world, where do you go next if it's not quite going to plan? We've tried experience the last 3 times, if Jose doesn't work out by the end of the season I'd like to see us trying a younger, fresher manager. But it's irrelevant really, I've had this feeling since Celta Vigo that we're going to win the CL this season
I just want Mourinho to get the best out of the players we already have and to work with them to develop a style of play that doesn’t bore the pants off even the most ardent of fans.
We have some cracking players within our squad. It’s absolute lunacy to suggest that the quality of squad is the sole reason for the shite football.
We have some cracking players within our squad. It’s absolute lunacy to suggest that the quality of squad is the sole reason for the shite football.
This new defence he’s mounting about not being able to compete with Europe’s elite is laughable. 2 teams, maybe 3 have more spending power than us. That’s it. He’s making out like we are a bunch of porpers. Someone should inform him you don’t need to buy 1 player for 150 mil. There are very good players out there he could easily get for a lot less.
Yeah, as much as I think he can get us back where we belong some of the shit he says makes it really hard to support him at times. We're Manchester United ffs and he's trying to paint us as a plucky underdog.
All that money spent, and people believe we are better to watch than we were with LVG. At least the youngsters liked good under LVG.
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