Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

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Why cant we play like the second half every game?
City always plays like that: high pressing, quick recovery. Same we did the second half. It was fun to watch.
 
Honestly Mou has not been able to develop the team at all..
We are still playing pathetic football (except a few matches at the beginning of the season), fail in must win games and play like scared kids when facing top-teams. On top of that we have become very bad in defending set-pieces as nobody seems to know where to stand & what to do - leading to conceding goals on a regular basis.

I have been saying it for quite a while know: Jose's way of playing football is outdated and there are too many ways to outperform his tactics in modern football. If he is not able to adapt he won't be the coach who brings us back to glory.

Bad thing is that there aren't too many good options available at the moment (maybe Carlo but than he failed at Bayern in a much weaker league with way less games - I think his lack of rotation would cost him in PL these days) so that we might have to stay put with Mou for quite some time..
 
For the people who think Mourinho is failing, do you think Conte has failed this season? Chelsea are the reigning champions of England and they have put up an extremely weak titled defence. All I see from neutrals, media, and our own fans sticking the boot into Jose but very hush on Chelsea letting their title go.

Maybe because he won the PL while we finished 6th. He has done his job and will return to Italy next year while we struggle and haven't achieved any highs but only hope that Jose leads us somewhere.
I would take 1st and 3rd from Conte in a heartbeat over the 2 seasons we had so far.
 
Maybe because he won the PL while we finished 6th. He has done his job and will return to Italy next year while we struggle and haven't achieved any highs but only hope that Jose leads us somewhere.
I would take 1st and 3rd from Conte in a heartbeat over the 2 seasons we had so far.

I think its also concerning that our tactics seems to have unraveled too soon. At its most simplest explanation, pack the middle with defenders, let the ball run out wide for United wingers/full backs to cross.. Its almost becoming a pattern and its concerning because we seem to take that option of crossing the ball 9/10 times even when we don't have players attacking the ball.

Lukaku for all his hard work just didn't occupy the right positions to win the headers and even when he did once, he timed his jump such that it hit his face and went out of the 18 yard box.

Mourinho needs to figure out a plan B/C/D for our attack or its going to become draws more often than not (And most teams are going to come with the team bus parked in front of their goal)
 
You don't think we have a team that has even a chance of matching them or even overtaking them in the near future?

I’m just sick of the whingeing mate. It’s got to the stage now where I am starting to just want Jose gone even though I think he is an unbelievable manager and we are making great progress.

I’ve never seen our fan base so divided. A good proportion of our fans will never accept him and it’s making the place poisonous at times.

We can catch up with City but we will need to be patient. There isn’t much between the two teams from GK to the two base midfielders but Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Jesus, Silva and De Bruyne are streets ahead of Mata, Martial, Lingard, Lukaku, Zlatan and Rashford
 
For the people who think Mourinho is failing, do you think Conte has failed this season? Chelsea are the reigning champions of England and they have put up an extremely weak titled defence. All I see from neutrals, media, and our own fans sticking the boot into Jose but very hush on Chelsea letting their title go.
Conte has just won the premier league. Naturally he's earned credit at Chelsea and isn't expected to win every year. We finished 6th last season.
 
Conte has just won the premier league. Naturally he's earned credit at Chelsea and isn't expected to win every year. We finished 6th last season.
From 6th to a likely top 3 finish while currently ahead of the reigning champions and behind an utterly rampant city. If Mourinho is failing than so is everyone else.
 
It's unbelievable how unrealistic some of us are. Sack Mourinho? Seriously?

We need to stop judging within the context of City's current form. Judge within the context of the post Fergie era, the premier league and the champions league. Unless we are being unfair, we are clearly making progress and given two more transfer windows, we will become a very strong team again.
 
Mourinho was always a guaranteed winner for me, and you put up with all the shit that comes with the Mourinho at the cost of winning.

When he's not winning though, he's very hard to stomach. The hypocrisy, throwing the players under the bus - it's annoying as feck.

Spot on.

I think most of us who want him gone, didn't want him around in the first place.

Others discussing Conte this season, he has failed (primarily in a bizarre transfer window) But recent success has provided him leniency. Jose hasn't had success for a few seasons.

Moyes, LVG and Jose have never been praised on attacking football, yet we seem shocked and disappointed with the crap we are served. I'd happily take a gamble on an manager who promotes fluid attack who is unproven at this level.
 
For me, it's obvious that this is taking the exact same path as his last Madrid and Chelsea tenures.

Past experience tells us it's not going to end well. I just wonder if there's any strong personalities in the dressing room who will eventually call him on his bull.
 
People still saying we would be first and not to compare us to a rampant city...Tottenham are 6 points behind us, 6 points and we are out of the top 4. Our lead is gone and the road down seems more likely than the road up atm. It's just not working and i'm confused what we are arguing. Yes, there is gradation since last season. What is worrying though is that the people who perform are not who Mourinho bought, while his signings are largely causing us to drop points. I don't think talk about sacking him are realistic at the moment. The worries about performance are realistic, still.
 
It's unbelievable how unrealistic some of us are. Sack Mourinho? Seriously?

We need to stop judging within the context of City's current form. Judge within the context of the post Fergie era, the premier league and the champions league. Unless we are being unfair, we are clearly making progress and given two more transfer windows, we will become a very strong team again.

This is what I don’t get, considering the atrocity that was Moyes and LvG Mourinho is doing fantastic. Hard to beat, physical, grinding out games. You haven’t had that since Fergie.

I think this is just fallout from recent results since the City defeat. That loss affected the team for sure and you’ve stumbled. But it’s your first stumble this entire season.
 
I’m just sick of the whingeing mate. It’s got to the stage now where I am starting to just want Jose gone even though I think he is an unbelievable manager and we are making great progress.

I’ve never seen our fan base so divided. A good proportion of our fans will never accept him and it’s making the place poisonous at times.

We can catch up with City but we will need to be patient. There isn’t much between the two teams from GK to the two base midfielders but Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Jesus, Silva and De Bruyne are streets ahead of Mata, Martial, Lingard, Lukaku, Zlatan and Rashford

But three months ago you felt we had the best team in the league. See below quote. Now you don't think we have a chance of competing in the near future.

It's tough to say because I think our side is now very well balanced. I wouldn't want to swap our entire playing XI with any other PL side as they all have areas of obvious weakness in key areas. For example, Chelsea, City and Liverpool don't convince me defensively and Spurs are just a bit uninspiring imo.

However, when you look at some of the individuals in these teams you can make an argument that they all, possibly with the exception of Liverpool, have better XIs than us. I don't agree that they do, but you could make the argument.

If we could steal Mendy from City and Mane from Liverpool I would be exceptionally happy with our XI and believe we would win the league this year

You've gone from saying we have the superior defense to saying they're about equal.

Three months ago the only City player you wanted was Mendy. Now you think Jesus, Aguero, Sane, Sterling, Silva and De Bruyne are all miles ahead.

I highlighted a similar change of position to another poster yesterday. It's not just you two but it reads like you're switching your position on the quality of the team just to defend the manager.
 
But three months ago you felt we had the best team in the league. See below quote. Now you don't think we have a chance of competing in the near future.



You've gone from saying we have the superior defense to saying they're about equal.

Three months ago the only City player you wanted was Mendy. Now you think Jesus, Aguero, Sane, Sterling, Silva and De Bruyne are all miles ahead.

I highlighted a similar change of position to another poster yesterday. It's not just you two but it reads like you're switching your position on the quality of the team just to defend the manager.

I think you are reading my quote slightly wrong, although I acknowledge sometimes my posts vary in quality depending on whether they are written on my iPhone or laptop and my points sometimes are less well constructed!

The key word is 'entire' in the sentence 'I wouldn't want to swap our entire playing XI'. What I was trying to say above was that I wouldn't swap the whole best XI in terms of personnel with any other best XI because each side had their weaknesses - for example I wouldn't want to swap the Utd for the City XI because I wouldn't want to change our back 5/6 for their back 5/6.

However, I have been a long time critic of our attackers so I would never be as daft as to intentionally say that Kevin de Bruyne would not get in our side.

I still would not make that swap today, however I feel with City their front 5 are so good that it's almost irrelevant who plays behind them, similar to the Barcelona teams that had Mascherano at CB for many years. I also would love to put Salah, Mane and Coutinho into our side (that side would win the league imo) but I wouldn't want the rest of the rabble around them. That's my point, not that each side don't have some superior individuals.

If you go back through my post history over the last 18 months, there will be a large number where I say clearly City have a better squad than us and better individuals
 
@Dobbs well said.

All those who are defending Mourinho were the same who thought that we had equal if not a better squad than City three months ago, but now are forced to make a 360-degree turn to defend Jose and his dire anti football

A lot has changed in three months :lol:
 
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He's always got something to moan about or shift the blame to. I'm not calling for him to be sacked, but I'm growing tired of him. Now I get why he did it, but it all started towards the back end of last season when he basically said forget the league.

I watch football mainly for entertainment and this guy doesn't get us playing good stuff on the pitch and is miserable off it.
 
I think you are reading my quote slightly wrong, although I acknowledge sometimes my posts vary in quality depending on whether they are written on my iPhone or laptop and my points sometimes are less well constructed!

The key word is 'entire' in the sentence 'I wouldn't want to swap our entire playing XI'. What I was trying to say above was that I wouldn't swap the whole best XI in terms of personnel with any other best XI because each side had their weaknesses - for example I wouldn't want to swap the Utd for the City XI because I wouldn't want to change our back 5/6 for their back 5/6.

However, I have been a long time critic of our attackers so I would never be as daft as to intentionally say that Kevin de Bruyne would not get in our side.

I still would not make that swap today, however I feel with City their front 5 are so good that it's almost irrelevant who plays behind them, similar to the Barcelona teams that had Mascherano at CB for many years. I also would love to put Salah, Mane and Coutinho into our side (that side would win the league imo) but I wouldn't want the rest of the rabble around them. That's my point, not that each side don't have some superior individuals.

If you go back through my post history over the last 18 months, there will be a large number where I say clearly City have a better squad than us and better individuals

Yes I understood your point on not wanting to swap our entire XI. There's no confusion there.

However later in your post you clearly said you think we have the best XI. I highlghted it. That we also had a very balanced team. You also didn't want any City player other than Mendy. That was September this year after our summer business(what you thought before the summer business isn't relevant).

Fast forward three months and not only do you think we don't have the best XI you think we don't have any chance of competing in the near future.

It's a big rewrite of where you think the team is at.
 
Do you think any of our players actually enjoy being managed by him?
 
The whole should be greater than the sum of the parts.
With us it's not the case and that's down to the manager.
 
As someone who absolutely thinks he's the man for the job, I still think Jose's made mistakes. It's early days, but Lindelof has looked pretty average and at times quite petrified and slow. Lukaku is a goal machine for the right side, but buying him might limit our play too much, again, early days. I also think it was a bit of a blunder by him when he said if the league was over he'd rather go on holiday (when in fact, the league is pretty much over but he needs to be motivating his players, as that's what he gets paid for).

His old school stance on injuries is also a bit worrying. I can't help thinking that Smalling would have, under normal circumstances, left the pitch against Leicester when he was too injured to move freely.

That being said, I think Jose has often times said positive things when he's probably trying to navigate his way leading a team with too many average players (which even Moyes correctly identified, and is quite possibly the only thing I agree with that man on, even if it was a terrible idea for him to voice those thoughts at the time given his position).

We simply need a new backline. People talk about the spine of our team being solid, in de Gea, Bailly, Pogba, but a spine of a team rests upon a solid defence. We've all been hot and cold over the last 5 years with Smalling and Jones. Same with Rojo, for the last 3 years. They are all injury prone. And we have not got actual full backs or actual wingers. Jose was doing well with the team up until Pogba got suspended. That completely derailed our season and shows how utterly dependent we were on him with absolutely no quality depth in midfield.

Hypothetically, if Jose was sacked at the end of the season, and a new (and very possibly lesser) manager came in, do people think he'd work some magic with the players we've already got without feeling that he needed major backing to compete for major trophies?
 
:lol: Sure thing. Let's not only pretend that Jose is a God but also devalue others achievements. He out performed both Jose and Pep and comfortably.

So where is Conte now? I already told you Conte had the advantage of focusing on only one competition last season. He got outclassed by Arsenal in Wembley twice - that’s your messianic Conte.

The memory of many football fans are extremely short. Jose won the PL in his debut season in the PL. When the media doubted him, he won it again in the second season making him the only manager aside SAF to have successfully defended a Premier League title.

Conte failed to match that & Pep didn’t manage that. You can talk smack about Jose all you want but he’s got nothing to prove here. If Mourinho can’t get the best out of the current bunch of players we have, no one can. He’s the only manager capable of clipping Pep, Conte is an opportunist!
 
Yes I understood your point on not wanting to swap our entire XI. There's no confusion there.

However later in your post you clearly said you think we have the best XI. I highlghted it. That we also had a very balanced team. You also didn't want any City player other than Mendy. That was September this year after our summer business(what you thought before the summer business isn't relevant).

Fast forward three months and not only do you think we don't have the best XI you think we don't have any chance of competing in the near future.

It's a big rewrite of where you think the team is at.

I don't see the bit where I say I would only want Mendy - I say I would like Mendy but I don't say only Mendy. Of course I would want several of their players but that's like me saying 'if only we had Messi, Hazard and Kane'. I also don't say we have the best XI...I allude to the point that fans of each team would claim THEY have the best XI but I would argue Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal at least don't have better XIs and would probably still argue this now on balance (although all four have standout stars)

I also don't know why we are arguing the semantics of this post when there are probably 50+ where I say at various points this year and last that our team is not as good as City's.

Just to clarify something though, I think we have an excellent goalkeeper, four/five good quality CBs (depending on Lindelof's development), a great young LB (if he can get his arse in gear), an ageing but solid RB and two excellent CMs in Pogba and Matic. Where I continue to believe we are very weak comparable to our rivals is the three behind the striker. If we could bring in two quality wingers/AMs who hit the ground running we could start to compete - but how easy will that be?
 
From 6th to a likely top 3 finish while currently ahead of the reigning champions and behind an utterly rampant city. If Mourinho is failing than so is everyone else.
Mourinho brought us to 6th in first place, we were 5th (same points with 4th) when he took over, so his first league campaign was very poor. Conte took Chelsea from 10th to 1st, of course that earns him a second season without much trouble. Again everyone here would swap our 2 seasons so far for 1st and 3rd. And it's not like Conte is miles behind us, it's one point. With our recent performances he could be ahead of us in the next week. If Conte fecks off next year after finishing 2nd or 3rd he will still be remembered as a success who won them a PL title. Mourinho on the other side has still a lot to prove here, if we now drop 1, 2 places in the table and don't improve it will be the second underwhelming league campaign in a row, of course there is more pressure on him.
 
To me Jose's biggest mistake was buying Lukaku. He thought that he can lead the line at United as he did at Everton but United is not Everton as Moyes found out. I think our defence is not bad at all and all our troubles stem from Lukaku. This is because he is also not able to hold the ball, his movements are terrible and his arrival has unbalanced the team too.
 
So where is Conte now? I already told you Conte had the advantage of focusing on only one competition last season. He got outclassed by Arsenal in Wembley twice - that’s your messianic Conte.

The memory of many football fans are extremely short. Jose won the PL in his debut season in the PL. When the media doubted him, he won it again in the second season making him the only manager aside SAF to have successfully defended a Premier League title.

Conte failed to match that & Pep didn’t manage that. You can talk smack about Jose all you want but he’s got nothing to prove here. If Mourinho can’t get the best out of the current bunch of players we have, no one can. He’s the only manager capable of clipping Pep, Conte is an opportunist!

Irrespective of whether Conte had the advantage of focusing on one competition or not he still won the league, which is all that really matters. We weren't in the CL so our clear focus was on the PL until we were too far behind.

Mourinho's been extremely successful in this league, but that's mostly in the past; just before that 04-06 spell Wenger managed to win the league with an unbeaten Arsenal side and since then he's been reduced to little more than a meme. Now, obviously Mourinho's successes span far beyond that 04-06 spell but the last couple of years have been the worst of his career and he does have something to prove.
 
Irrespective of whether Conte had the advantage of focusing on one competition or not he still won the league, which is all that really matters. We weren't in the CL so our clear focus was on the PL until we were too far behind.

Mourinho's been extremely successful in this league, but that's mostly in the past; just before that 04-06 spell Wenger managed to win the league with an unbeaten Arsenal side and since then he's been reduced to little more than a meme. Now, obviously Mourinho's successes span far beyond that 04-06 spell but the last couple of years have been the worst of his career and he does have something to prove.

We were in Europa, we won that too. Actually, Jose prioritised the Europa competition cos he knew winning it was as good as finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league. United’s position would have been considerably higher last season if we were not chasing the Europa cup.

Mourinho has nothing to prove. He won the PL title in his debut season, he’s the only manager that has successfully defended the PL title apart from SAF. What else has he got to prove?

If Pep is more special to you, you can do a Tevez: Leave United and go to City.
 
The way some people talk about Mourinho and blindly defend absolutely everything about him is just downright bizarre. Like he's their boyfriend or something.
 
The way some people talk about Mourinho and blindly defend absolutely everything about him is just downright bizarre. Like he's their boyfriend or something.

The criticism he’s getting is so unfair. He had a much more difficult rebuilding job than his nemesis at City. In spite of that, he’s spent less than him and somehow our fantasy loving fans expect him to compete or outrightly win the league.

We are currently where we should be. You could argue with the gap or what not but United do not have a better squad than City - not since SAF left. If Mourinho finishes 4th or even 3rd, you can bring your daggers out then.
 
The way some people talk about Mourinho and blindly defend absolutely everything about him is just downright bizarre. Like he's their boyfriend or something.

It's an internet phenomenon. Now we form two teams and then go on to defend our team leaving all objectivity behind. This is not limited to Redcafe or football discussions, you take any sphere and there will be people in two corners going at each other to claim the upper hand. It is sad.
 
We were in Europa, we won that too. Actually, Jose prioritised the Europa competition cos he knew winning it was as good as finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league. United’s position would have been considerably higher last season if we were not chasing the Europa cup.

Mourinho has nothing to prove. He won the PL title in his debut season, he’s the only manager that has successfully defended the PL title apart from SAF. What else has he got to prove?

If Pep is more special to you, you can do a Tevez: Leave United and go to City.

What's this nonsense? Of course he has something to prove. He has to prove that he can get this team challenging for the title (which he's failed to do so far), he has to prove that he can make this group of individuals into a cohesive unit (which they're not looking like at the moment) and he needs to bring some sort of identity to this team. He needs to prove that he can go toe to toe with our rivals across the city and find a way of stopping them in their tracks.

This takes time.

He could be the one to do it; he's been a fabulously successful coach throughout the years so there's a good chance he could be the one. But he's coming up short atm. Our performances are all over the shop, our defending has gone to shit and our attacking has no pattern or cohesion to it.

So he has plenty to prove.
 
To me Jose's biggest mistake was buying Lukaku. He thought that he can lead the line at United as he did at Everton but United is not Everton as Moyes found out. I think our defence is not bad at all and all our troubles stem from Lukaku. This is because he is also not able to hold the ball, his movements are terrible and his arrival has unbalanced the team too.
He is his big brute in the mould of Costa and Drogba, but he doesn't terrorise defenders like they do. Him and Zlatan on the pitch at the same time is tragic
 
I don't see the bit where I say I would only want Mendy - I say I would like Mendy but I don't say only Mendy. Of course I would want several of their players but that's like me saying 'if only we had Messi, Hazard and Kane'. I also don't say we have the best XI...I allude to the point that fans of each team would claim THEY have the best XI but I would argue Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal at least don't have better XIs and would probably still argue this now on balance (although all four have standout stars)

I also don't know why we are arguing the semantics of this post when there are probably 50+ where I say at various points this year and last that our team is not as good as City's.

Just to clarify something though, I think we have an excellent goalkeeper, four/five good quality CBs (depending on Lindelof's development), a great young LB (if he can get his arse in gear), an ageing but solid RB and two excellent CMs in Pogba and Matic. Where I continue to believe we are very weak comparable to our rivals is the three behind the striker. If we could bring in two quality wingers/AMs who hit the ground running we could start to compete - but how easy will that be?

It's not semantics, it's what you said, there in black and white.

You said clear as day that some might argue City, Chelsea,Spurs and Arsenal have better XI's but you disagree.

It's amazing how you and others are now denying what you said just three months ago. You clearly felt in September, after we made the summer purchases, we were at least on par with City. Are you really denying that given the posts of yours I've quoted?
 
So where is Conte now? I already told you Conte had the advantage of focusing on only one competition last season. He got outclassed by Arsenal in Wembley twice - that’s your messianic Conte.

The memory of many football fans are extremely short. Jose won the PL in his debut season in the PL. When the media doubted him, he won it again in the second season making him the only manager aside SAF to have successfully defended a Premier League title.

Conte failed to match that & Pep didn’t manage that. You can talk smack about Jose all you want but he’s got nothing to prove here. If Mourinho can’t get the best out of the current bunch of players we have, no one can. He’s the only manager capable of clipping Pep, Conte is an opportunist!

Jeez man, you make Mourinho sound like some God like being.

Look at how well Allardyce has Everton playing after how poor they were just a month ago under Koeman. You honestly believe that no manager in the world could get our group of players performing better? That’s hogwash! Mourinho is failing.
 
To me Jose's biggest mistake was buying Lukaku. He thought that he can lead the line at United as he did at Everton but United is not Everton as Moyes found out. I think our defence is not bad at all and all our troubles stem from Lukaku. This is because he is also not able to hold the ball, his movements are terrible and his arrival has unbalanced the team too.

This is true to an extent. It was all very well when the team was in form and he was scoring as well, but situations like these bring out the real picture. But Jose had no choice but to go for him as the market for strikers was very poor then. It was a choice of Lukaku, Morata, Auba, Belotti and Lacazette. Of these, Morata was his first choice and Madrid screwed us over that.
 
This is true to an extent. It was all very well when the team was in form and he was scoring as well, but situations like these bring out the real picture. But Jose had no choice but to go for him as the market for strikers was very poor then. It was a choice of Lukaku, Morata, Auba, Belotti and Lacazette. Of these, Morata was his first choice and Madrid screwed us over that.

Levy always has a price. We should have busted the bank for Kane. Or wait for next season playing with Rashford and Martial.
 
Levy always has a price. We should have busted the bank for Kane. Or wait for next season playing with Rashford and Martial.

As for the last bit, I think that would have been a huge mistake. Neither can be relied upon just yet. Both are far too inconsistent.
 
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