Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Di Maria's angel]

But this is still title challenging territory normally.

Conveniently ignored that part. If memory serves me correct, in recent seasons, the most points picked up after 20 games was United in 12/13 (49). Chelsea may have been close last season. Any other year, and we would be in the title race, if not first.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Our team had more than just issues. We had no midfield at all, we signed a bunch of underwhelming defenders and attackers and basically were stuck with the loyalists from the Fergie era like Young and Valencia (who in fairness, have been solid but not up to the highest level). We are still dependent on Fellaini when Pogba is not there, ffs.

That City squad is very good both in terms of starting XI and in depth. The core that Mancini bought is still servicing them, then the club bought the likes of Sterling, de Bruyne, Otamendi and Pep added his own buys to it. That is why even if you take out Sane, Silva etc, someone else is there to step into their shoes and perform just as well.

We had Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Herrera, Carrick and brought in Pogba. We had options, especially since we've played with a two-man midfield for most of Mourinhos time here. Also, we'd been inseperable in our head to head encounters for the two last seasons. At the height of which included a 4-2 home win where a midfield made up of Fellaini, Herrera and Carrick competely dominated their midfield, featuring 2 out of their current triad of Fernandinho, Silva and De bruyne.
City also had to revamp their defence, which they did although with very limited success so far considering Mendy, Stones and Danilo have hade very little impact yet. We've injected over two billion £s into our first eleven under Mourinho (Pogba, Matic, Lukaku), Pep has currently 1 billion of his investment playing, 30 million of which is a goalkeeper but you could discoint it in order to include Jesus in that.

 

[Kapardin]

We had Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Herrera, Carrick and brought in Pogba. We had options, especially since we've played with a two-man midfield for most of Mourinhos time here. Also, we'd been inseperable in our head to head encounters for the two last seasons. At the height of which included a 4-2 home win where a midfield made up of Fellaini, Herrera and Carrick competely dominated their midfield, featuring 2 out of their current triad of Fernandinho, Silva and De bruyne.

Seriously mate, a past it Schweinsteiger, a lower table midfielder in Schneiderlin, bang average Herrera and Fellaini, an aging Carrick are options compared to what City had? Even if City's midfield options weren't great then, they still had that core bought by Mancini to keep them in the Top 4.

In the past 3 seasons, City downed tools in the second half of the seasons under Pelle. This lack of motivation is a problem that Guardiola is likely to address (its' possible it might happen this season of course, though unlikely). Guardiola's first season was a trial as he was getting to know his team, and even then, we couldn't beat them.

We won 4-2 because of Pellegrini's inability to get the best out of his team (City were in a slump at that time), and some of our average players had their purple patches coinciding with that run. We also won 1-0 at the Etihad in Pellegrini's last season because they were again, surprise, surprise, in a slump, that being their annual dip in form.

City also had to revamp their defence, which they did although with very limited success so far considering Mendy, Stones and Danilo have hade very little impact yet. We've injected over two billion £s into our first eleven under Mourinho (Pogba, Matic, Lukaku), Pep has currently 1 billion of his investment playing, 30 million of which is a goalkeeper but you could discoint it in order to include Jesus in that.

City only had FBs and GK as weaknesses. As I said before, Otamendi is a decent CB like ours who needed proper guidance and coaching. Guardiola upgraded their FBs and when his buys have been injured, likes of Delph stepped in to do a job like Young has done for us. He replaced Hart with Bravo and immediately rectified his mistake by buying Ederson, who looks to be the second best GK in the league after De Gea, and better at distribution than the latter.

Seriously, nobody will claim we had a better team than City since 2012. And we have a lot more rebuilding to do than Pep.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Seriously mate, a past it Schweinsteiger, a lower table midfielder in Schneiderlin, bang average Herrera and Fellaini, an aging Carrick are options compared to what City had? Even if City's midfield options weren't great then, they still had that core bought by Mancini to keep them in the Top 4.

In the past 3 seasons, City downed tools in the second half of the seasons under Pelle. This lack of motivation is a problem that Guardiola is likely to address (its' possible it might happen this season of course, though unlikely). Guardiola's first season was a trial as he was getting to know his team, and even then, we couldn't beat them.

We won 4-2 because of Pellegrini's inability to get the best out of his team (City were in a slump at that time), and some of our average players had their purple patches coinciding with that run. We also won 1-0 at the Etihad in Pellegrini's last season because they were again, surprise, surprise, in a slump, that being their annual dip in form.



City only had FBs and GK as weaknesses. As I said before, Otamendi is a decent CB like ours who needed proper guidance and coaching. Guardiola upgraded their FBs and when his buys have been injured, likes of Delph stepped in to do a job like Young has done for us. He replaced Hart with Bravo and immediately rectified his mistake by buying Ederson, who looks to be the second best GK in the league after De Gea, and better at distribution than the latter.

Seriously, nobody will claim we had a better team than City since 2012. And we have a lot more rebuilding to do than Pep.

They didnt beat us at all in 2015/16.

Herrera was player of the season for us and Mourinhos favorite Fellaini?

So the reason we beat City was always that Pellegrini couldn't motivate them? What about Van Gaal, if he was maximising the ability of his team why was he sacked, and why was everyone happy he was sacked?

We had no midfield you say, okay, now we have a midfield made up of 130 million £ signings of Matic and Pogba. Do you think we'd have beaten them then?

We've had one of the best defences for around four years, we've added 130 m £ investment to our midfield and almost 80 m pounds to an already talented attack featuring Martial and Rashford, don't come and complain about spending is what i'm saying, it makes no sense.

 

[reddevil702]

Do you think City are the strongest side you have seen in for a few years? I don't. One could argue that the way City (who are no 2009 Barca, 2006 Chelsea, 2008 Man Utd 2013 Bayern) are dispatching this league campaign, maybe we should do better as the teams seem so easily beatable. They have averaged 3 goals a game with Sterling, Sane and Aguero/Jesus and are dominating most teams. We once had Ronaldo Tevez and Rooney! could this not suggest that perhaps we ourselves should be doing better and maybe this isn't as an amazing performance with this premier league standard?

Just looking at what the City side is doing they could be just as good. It's something we won't really know until the end of the season and see what they've won.

 

[reddaz71]

Am alot prouder being in 2nd than in 6th which is where we will end up again if we have to press the reset button if Jose walks,what kind of ludicrous nonsense is this that such a thing can even be contemplated when clearly Mourinho has improved us to where we are now essentially the best Utd side since Ferguson won the title!!

 

[reddevil702]

The challenge is to win the race. The goal of progressing is to win a war, not a battle. We have lost 2 wars early. Here's hoping for a win in the third one.

Let me ask you this, if we somehow win the champions league (unlikely) and finish second in the league and City win the league by a record margin but lose in semis of the champions. Which team would you consider as having made the most progress since Jose and Pep took over? In this scenario I'd say United have made the biggest progress. For me City are winning the battle (short term goals) but the war is far from over.

 

[Stacks]

Just looking at what the City side is doing they could be just as good. It's something we won't really know until the end of the season and see what they've won.

Really? Ribben Lewandowski and Robben are better than Citys entire attack. Thiago, Lahm, Muller, Vidal, Alonso any of those midfield choices could handle City. Bayern even dominated Barca over 2 legs when Barca were the best in Europe. Alaba and Lahm no contest. Nueur no contest. Bayern were far better as were Barcelona's midfield, attack and fullbacks. Its a no contest from me.

 

[reddevil702]

Really? Ribben Lewandowski and Robben are better than Citys entire attack. Thiago, Lahm, Muller, Vidal, Alonso any of those midfield choices could handle City. Bayern even dominated Barca over 2 legs when Barca were the best in Europe. Alaba and Lahm no contest. Nueur no contest. Bayern were far better as were Barcelona's midfield, attack and fullbacks. Its a no contest from me.

I don't disagree that when comparing the individual talents each team had City falls short. But in Bayerns 2013 season Robben had 11 goals and Ribery 10, Sterling already has 12, Jesus 8 and Sane 6. So what they're accomplishing as a team incredible. Going beyond the individual talent.

 

[Kapardin]

They didnt beat us at all in 2015/16.

Yes, in Pellegrini's worst season when the Guardiola announcement completely derailed them.

Herrera was player of the season for us and Mourinhos favorite Fellaini?

In a team that came 4th and 6th, is that a big deal? Makes them world beaters? Look at Herrera now, this is his real level. Even in the season when he was player of the season, it was voted for by overexcited fans, and he was just about average with 1-2 excellent matches.

I am at a loss here. You are seriously saying Herrera-Fellaini midfield can twat a midfield of De Bruyne, David Silva and Fernandinho/Gundogan? Seriously? All because they won 4-2 a couple of years ago against a badly off color City team managed by an underwhelming manager?

Let's get something straight here. You say "Mourinho's favorite" about Fellaini sarcastically, as though Fellaini starts every game under Jose or is first choice ahead of Pogba or Matic. Not at all. Jose knows and recognizes him as an average player. He is a favorite because as a squad player, in addition to Pogba and Matic, he can do a job. And as he doesn't complain, and follows instructions to a tee, he is Jose's favorite.

It is not because Mourinho sees Fellaini as a world beater or someone to start regularly/build the team around that he calls him his favorite.

So the reason we beat City was always that Pellegrini couldn't motivate them? What about Van Gaal, if he was maximising the ability of his team why was he sacked, and why was everyone happy he was sacked?

Van Gaal was lucky to be managing us at a time when Liverpool and City both had managers on the wane. Much of our wins against the big teams were when they were weak - Liverpool and City under Rodgers and Klopp. When he came up against any of the top 6 in good form - such as Arsenal and Spurs away and Liverpool under a decent manager in the Europa - he got us twatted.

He was not maximising the ability, if anything, he was underperforming. He had no European footy in his first season and yet could only scrape 4th when he had Di Maria and RvP. He could only come 5th in his second season despite the league being so weak and the bigger teams underperforming that Leicester won it. Even our average squad could have finished in the top 4 with a half decent manager.

We had no midfield you say, okay, now we have a midfield made up of 130 million £ signings of Matic and Pogba. Do you think we'd have beaten them then?

Don't get what you are saying? Of course we can give City a game with Matic and Pogba. Let us see if we can play them together in the derby at the Etihad this season without Pogba getting suspended.

Matic and Pogba may amount to 130 million, but it is still only two good players. We need 2 more mids atleast for proper squad depth.

We've had one of the best defences for around four years, we've added 130 m £ investment to our midfield and almost 80 m pounds to an already talented attack featuring Martial and Rashford, don't come and complain about spending is what i'm saying, it makes no sense.

We had a good defense, but a piss poor attack. 130 million spent on 2 midfielders and if we cannot start either of them, we either lose, draw or scrape to wins due to average dross like Herrera coming in. We added Lukaku to replace Zlatan in attack, so that is not an addition. Martial and Rashford are young and inconsistent unlike proven wingers (and they are not even wingers in the first place, though Martial could be molded as one), and therefore, please do not complain that Mourinho is not getting the best out of the team.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Really? Ribben Lewandowski and Robben are better than Citys entire attack. Thiago, Lahm, Muller, Vidal, Alonso any of those midfield choices could handle City. Bayern even dominated Barca over 2 legs when Barca were the best in Europe. Alaba and Lahm no contest. Nueur no contest. Bayern were far better as were Barcelona's midfield, attack and fullbacks. Its a no contest from me.

Our Pep side probably could have handled this City Pep side. Our current one, not so sure. Maybe we'll find out, it would be a cracking match to be sure.

 

[Stacks]

I don't disagree that when comparing the individual talents each team had City falls short. But in Bayerns 2013 season Robben had 11 goals and Ribery 10, Sterling already has 12, Jesus 8 and Sane 6. So what they're accomplishing as a team incredible. Going beyond the individual talent.

Sterling has one goal scoring season. Lets see him do it for 6 seasons as per Arjen before we get carried away. Robben also misses a lot of games through injury so plays jagged seasons. Ribbery was a creative force with 10 goals and 14 assists in 24 league games that year. 10 goals 10 assists in 18 league games the season after. Neither played full seasons due to injury problems so its difficult to measure how good they could be.

 

[Hawks2008]

Said by an idiot in a movie.

For sure, but the sentiment applies. Success is measured by trophies and 2nd place isn't a trophy. When Spurs were finishing second posters on here were quick to remind resident Tottenham fans of that, but when we do it people are happy about it? Standards have really dropped around here.

 

[Womp]

For sure, but the sentiment applies. Success is measured by trophies and 2nd place isn't a trophy. When Spurs were finishing second posters on here were quick to remind resident Tottenham fans of that, but when we do it people are happy about it? Standards have really dropped around here.

Spurs have their best ever team and have come close but failed multiple times, not a one off season. Not to add many people have acknowledged the progress Spurs made, in fact it's one of the reasons Poch is so highly rated on here. We're still a work in progress, this is far from our best ever team, also standards haven't dropped, we've been shite for years, maybe people need to wake up and acknowledge that. A strong second place finish after years of struggling to even qualify for the CL is great progress which is what some people acknowledge. Has nothing to do with being happy with being second.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Yes, in Pellegrini's worst season when the Guardiola announcement completely derailed them.

It was his worst season because that team was coming to the end of their road. Touré was a spent force, as was Zabaleta, Kolarov and more that had been key parts of that team. The team Guardiola inherited was an aged squad that had failed at rejuvenating itself, similar to when Moyes took over United.

In a team that came 4th and 6th, is that a big deal? Makes them world beaters? Look at Herrera now, this is his real level. Even in the season when he was player of the season, it was voted for by overexcited fans, and he was just about average with 1-2 excellent matches.

It's not a feat to become PLOTY next to Pogba, playing in the same position?

I am at a loss here. You are seriously saying Herrera-Fellaini midfield can twat a midfield of De Bruyne, David Silva and Fernandinho/Gundogan? Seriously? All because they won 4-2 a couple of years ago against a badly off color City team managed by an underwhelming manager?

No, I'm saying that we've added two starting midfielders since then compared to their one, yet they've made more headway? Then who's to blame, the people paying or the manager?

Let's get something straight here. You say "Mourinho's favorite" about Fellaini sarcastically, as though Fellaini starts every game under Jose or is first choice ahead of Pogba or Matic. Not at all. Jose knows and recognizes him as an average player. He is a favorite because as a squad player, in addition to Pogba and Matic, he can do a job. And as he doesn't complain, and follows instructions to a tee, he is Jose's favorite.

It is not because Mourinho sees Fellaini as a world beater or someone to start regularly/build the team around that he calls him his favorite.

He was one of the most played players last year and if he'd been available when Mourinho decided to call quits (justifiably) on Mkhitaryan, would he have started ahead of Lingard?

Van Gaal was lucky to be managing us at a time when Liverpool and City both had managers on the wane. Much of our wins against the big teams were when they were weak - Liverpool and City under Rodgers and Klopp. When he came up against any of the top 6 in good form - such as Arsenal and Spurs away and Liverpool under a decent manager in the Europa - he got us twatted.

He was not maximising the ability, if anything, he was underperforming. He had no European footy in his first season and yet could only scrape 4th when he had Di Maria and RvP. He could only come 5th in his second season despite the league being so weak and the bigger teams underperforming that Leicester won it. Even our average squad could have finished in the top 4 with a half decent manager.

We're talking about the squads that Pep inherited vs the one Mourinho inherited, so I don't see the relevance of bringing other teams into this.
So whenever City do badly they're underperforming due to the manager but when do equally bad are it's because we have a bad squad with a bad manager holding us back? Who's inconsistant now?

Don't get what you are saying? Of course we can give City a game with Matic and Pogba. Let us see if we can play them together in the derby at the Etihad this season without Pogba getting suspended.

Matic and Pogba may amount to 130 million, but it is still only two good players. We need 2 more mids atleast for proper squad depth.

Do you really think that with Pogba on the field, City wouldn't have been outplaying us the way they did?

We had a good defense, but a piss poor attack. 130 million spent on 2 midfielders and if we cannot start either of them, we either lose, draw or scrape to wins due to average dross like Herrera coming in. We added Lukaku to replace Zlatan in attack, so that is not an addition. Martial and Rashford are young and inconsistent unlike proven wingers (and they are not even wingers in the first place, though Martial could be molded as one), and therefore, please do not complain that Mourinho is not getting the best out of the team.

And you don't think that's on the manager, that we've spent almost half of two years budget on two players? Besides I'm sorry to say that I think that you're kidding yourself if you think we'd be the better team had Pogba played.

From the get go Pep had Sane, Aguero and Sterling.. Don't you think we should've been able to match that with Zlatan, Martial, Mkhitaryan, Rashford etc?

As for the game against us a few weeks ago they didn't even need Aguero, who wasn't even playing. We had Martial, Lukaku and Rashford and barely scratched them, AT HOME.
Forget squad depth, we had ONE player from our strongest 11 missing, they had several and were outplaying us away from home.

 

[Womp]

And you don't think that's on the manager, that we've spent almost half of two years budget on two players? Besides I'm sorry to say that I think that you're kidding yourself if you think we'd be the better team had Pogba played.

From the get go Pep had Sane, Aguero and Sterling.. Don't you think we should've been able to match that with Zlatan, Martial, Mkhitaryan, Rashford etc?

As for the game against us a few weeks ago they didn't even need Aguero, who wasn't even playing. We had Martial, Lukaku and Rashford and barely scratched them, AT HOME.
Forget squad depth, we had ONE player from our strongest 11 missing, they had several and were outplaying us away from home.

Multiple things wrong in this post. To start, it's not on the manager that the majority of our budget was spent on two players, the manager isn't responsible for negotiating prices, he gives multiple targets and it's the people involved in transfers who negotiate prices. Not to add, both Lukaku and Pogba play in positions that cost an arm and a leg to buy top quality players in, something Pep didn't need to do. He already had KDB and Aguero, both amongst the best in their position in the league before he came in. To compare, Jose had Herrera, Fellaini (considered a joke on here), Carrick (way too old to be relied on consistently now), Morgan (lol), Schweinsteiger (see Carrick) and Wayne Rooney as his only established striker, not even comparable in the slightest. One had to spend big in those areas, one chose to, because the best striker in the Prem over the past half a decade didn't suit his needs. Going into the season with your only striker being an 18 year old, a 21 year old who just had his best ever season not even playing as a striker and Wayne Rooney who was just absolutely woeful isn't a risk any top manager would take. Pep brought in GBJ but he had Aguero to fall back on.

We might not have been the better team if Pogba played, but City were by no means dominating. They looked average and lacked penetration, their only two goals coming from terrible mistakes by Lukaku (who on another day remembers how to clear a ball and we draw or even win the game). Pogba would have resulted in us also creating more, it's hardly a coincidence that we score more goals and look more threatening when he plays. He's our only creative midfielder. If you were to take KDB and Silva out of City's lineup and play Fernandinho and another holding midfielder (No, Gundogan isn't a holding midfielder, he's also a creative one) you'd also see their football struggle as a result. Funnily enough, against us they had no penetration from the wings, both Sterling and Sane for the most part were kept quiet, instead most of their penetration coming from runs from deep by their creative midfielders mainly KDB. You can't expect to play two holding midfielders and not see your football get affected as a result. When we have no creative midfielder to play the ball out of midfield and to link the midfield/defence to the attack, you have no player capable of dealing with the press, no player capable of moving the ball out of the half, as a result the play gets restricted, you get boxed into your own half (as neither Matic or Herrera are competent at running with the ball) and thus your attackers have to drop back as a result - which is when our players begin to panic when getting pressed in their half. Pogba's absence severely hinders our play, not because he's an incredible player (he is) but mainly because he's the only creative midfielder we have. Him purely being on the pitch garners the attention of other players, allowing more space for other players to operate in. Not to add his ability to overcome the press with skill, his ability to play the ball into the channels etc along with everything else I mentioned. So yes, we might not have dominated against City with Pogba, but we would have been a hell of a lot more of a threat. Games at the top end are more often than not decided in the midfield and when you have no midfielder capable of dealing with a press, none capable of running with the ball or offering a proper goal threat, you're always going to lose that battle and when you lose that battle you get boxed in.

They didn't even need Aguero, most could argue he isn't even their first choice striker. We had Martial, Rashford and Lukaku and didn't scratch them, yet Sterling, Sane and GBJ didn't really offer much of a threat either - despite them being some almighty attacking force and having both their best midfielders available (something we didn't). As I said before, their penetration was mostly from deep.

 

[Sky1981]

We don’t have to be free flowing although it would be nice, showing any basic understanding of how to control a game would be a nice step forward. If he also insists on being a counter attacking team, having one that can actually counter would be nice.

I’d happily give any manager time as long as it looks like Something is happening getting built and we are genuinely improving on the pitch. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be any sign of it. Results have been great, but we don’t look anywhere near like a good team, we actually got outplayed by Bristol City and they played better than anything we’ve done this season so far.

What is this culture and character change which is happening? Just acceptance of Jose’s ways?

Probably a major shift in paradigm.

Nobody can really tell what's saf game plan. Attacking yes... But what's his way of football?

This i think it's the biggest challenge our manager facing.

Moyes has no clue. Lvg total football is too hard to understand for our swashbuckling old guards, and mourinho is caught in between a cowboy minded set of players and a more contemporary technical player (pogba, mata, zlatan)

This probably is also why players like di maria, memphis, darmian, schneiderlin somehow become a shadow of their former self once they joined us.

All we need is time, we're rebooting and if jose didn't finish what he's doing we'll be back to square one and the next manager coming will face the same problem.

Imho jose knows how to play abit better, it's just our disjointed squad aren't capable to function properly.

 

[Water Melon]

Let me ask you this, if we somehow win the champions league (unlikely) and finish second in the league and City win the league by a record margin but lose in semis of the champions. Which team would you consider as having made the most progress since Jose and Pep took over? In this scenario I'd say United have made the biggest progress. For me City are winning the battle (short term goals) but the war is far from over.

If we win CL, Jose will have done a fantastic job, I will say. However, it is less realistic than winning EPL. I am yet to see anything to suggest that we are hitting a form that will allow us to win CL. As for winning the war, City are likely to prolong Pep's contract, whereas the baldie has improved players he inherited, sold the deadwood and is buying young quality players. I do not see him planning short-term to win just a battle, in fact the war was in November this year. Now compare ages of the players that Jose and Pep bought, also while Jose is still living in a hotel.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Let me ask you this, if we somehow win the champions league (unlikely) and finish second in the league and City win the league by a record margin but lose in semis of the champions. Which team would you consider as having made the most progress since Jose and Pep took over? In this scenario I'd say United have made the biggest progress. For me City are winning the battle (short term goals) but the war is far from over.

Progress? City. The league is the biggest barometer of actual peformance levels. But we'd have the bigger glory given the status if the champions league.

I don't think we can win the CL though. It should be really exciting to see how we do but based on our showings vs the better teams, it's hard to see us beating all the ones we'd face let alone the elite teams.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

I’m not delusional enough to believe that we’d be neck and neck with City, but the gap would be closer imo. We do need to reinforce as we aren’t a title winning squad yet.

But if he was getting the best out of the players he has got, the fans would be an awful lot happier with the football being played.

We just don’t look like a very well coached team, which is crazy considering Mourinho is one of the very best coaches of the modern era.

My point is that his negative setup, system and mindset is stifling the team.

Our points accumulation has been very good, but our football has been dreadful to watch.

We have a plan for every match but we don't have a football identity. Looking at Pep / Klopp / Arsene and you can identify hallmarks of their team. Even Poch. With us it's a game by game basis. There's no intricacy or proper coaching in our offensive play, that much is clear. It's more of a "give it to Pogba / Martial / Rashford" and see how things go. Our movement is poor, our decision making is poor, and it will tell over the course of an entire season, 2nd place notwithstanding.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We have a plan for every match but we don't have a football identity. Looking at Pep / Klopp / Arsene and you can identify hallmarks of their team. Even Poch. With us it's a game by game basis. There's no intricacy or proper coaching in our offensive play, that much is clear. It's more of a "give it to Pogba / Martial / Rashford" and see how things go. Our movement is poor, our decision making is poor, and it will tell over the course of an entire season, 2nd place notwithstanding.

If our movement and decision making is so poor how come we're doing quite well in the league and better than every other team barring City (so far)?

I do agree that our football 'system' isn't as fluid as a team like Liverpool nor anywhere near as exciting. But people need to tone it down. If we were as broken as suggested, we would perform accordingly.

 

[mav_9me]

This is my current issue with Jose:

My problem with the Leicester equalizer goal is how with 11 men Vs 10 we are all in the box and trying to defend for our lives. You know why Herrera is not able to close down Albrighton from crossing? Cuz he was just in the box trying to defend the previous ball and couldn't run out in time. That's what happens when everybody is inside your own box trying to defend.

We've seen it enough times during SAF's time where opposing teams were defending with all men in the box desperately only for the ball to be deflected or fall to one of us in the box.

That's where the whole thing is on Jose. We should be better able to control the game without panicking into defending in our box. Look at how city kept the ball against us at our home. 11 Vs 11 against a desperate man united team at old Trafford. While I don't expect us to be as good as that, we sure as hell should be better than what we saw.

 

[Canagel]

If our movement and decision making is so poor how come we're doing quite well in the league and better than every other team barring City (so far)?

I do agree that our football 'system' isn't as fluid as a team like Liverpool nor anywhere near as exciting. But people need to tone it down. If we were as broken as suggested, we would perform accordingly.

We are in 2nd because we are more clinical this season not because we have improved our movement or attacking play. We created more chances last year intact and De Gea has made more saves than any other keeper which indicates to me that the defence isn't as good as we think it is. That shouldn't be happening. We are the worst top 6 team in terms of keeping the ball, playing out from the back and starting from there. Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool would never resort to hoofing the ball like we did against City.

 

[Womp]

We are in 2nd because we are more clinical this season not because we have improved our movement or attacking play. We created more chances last year intact and De Gea has made more saves than any other keeper which indicates to me that the defence isn't as good as we think it is. That shouldn't be happening. We are the worst top 6 team in terms of keeping the ball, playing out from the back and starting from there. Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool would never resort to hoofing the ball like we did against City.

You need to be creating chances to be clinical. We’ve created more clear cut chances than any other team in the league bar City. Our football isn’t as exciting as some other top teams but this nonsense that we’re shite and haven’t improved is baseless to say the least. You don’t go from sixth to second, scoring and creating the second most chances in the league without improving your attack. You don’t have the joint best defence in the league without improving your defence either.

Fact of the matter is City have been phenomenal and it’s clouding everyone’s judgment on the progress we’ve made. They’ve simply just been better, doesn’t mean we’re shite and directionless and doomed. We’ve made immense progress, becoming competitive again is a gradual process, anamolies like Leicester aside.

 

[Kapardin]

And you don't think that's on the manager, that we've spent almost half of two years budget on two players? Besides I'm sorry to say that I think that you're kidding yourself if you think we'd be the better team had Pogba played.

Really, dunno what you are getting at. Firstly, the players are expensive. We cannot get quality like Pogba cheap, so what do you suggest? Buy another Schneiderlin type player?

Where did I say we would be the better team? All I said is that we could certainly do better with Pogba than the likes of Herrera and give them a game.

Rest of your post is a bunch of "What ifs" that are not even relevant. Simple point is this, our team has not and never been better than City since 2012 and Jose has a lot more work on his hands than Pep. That is why they outplayed us last game. Its not just "ONE" player, but our only quality creator in Pogba who was missing considering our #10s are either inconsistent or poor. No surprises we struggle without him.

And despite that, we could have atleast drawn the home game if Lukaku hadn't made silly mistakes. So give Jose time and wait for the fortunes to change.

 

[hn4manunited]

So, Jose is capable of doing it. We all know it. So far he is well behind, failing at the very top level compared to his own standards. He is the Special one according to himself. Lets see what is so special about him next season. This one is already lost to Pep.

This is a huge problem in our fanbase these days. Considering what we’ve done this season up to this point, without pogba for a lengthy duration and having to cope with injuries to other players, mikhi losing his form after a few games, we have actually done amazingly well. Our points tally and goals scored so far has been respectable. Like everyone has already said. City spent well and lots. Had a good core of players who put them miles ahead of a rebuilding project. Just the sheer fact of the number of players they were able to bring him for thei lr rebuilding speaks to their progress with their rebuilding. We have been somewhat slower. It doesn’t take away the fact that we are doing well this season.

With some of our current fan base, there’s absolutely no way to please them.

 

[hn4manunited]

It’s tiresome with some of our fans these days. This place is a shadow of what it was. I come here to enjoy sharing with my fellow supporters but it’s just never ending entitled behaviors and spouting just baseless accusations about where we are as a team. I know everyone wants us to be at the top of the table with a huge points gap to the second in the table, playing pretty football, winning everything but you’ve got to be realistic and reasonable with what it will take the club to get there. Take your own personal life as an example, you can’t have everything by snapping your fingers. You have to work at it.

 

[Water Melon]

This is a huge problem in our fanbase these days. Considering what we’ve done this season up to this point, without pogba for a lengthy duration and having to cope with injuries to other players, mikhi losing his form after a few games, we have actually done amazingly well. Our points tally and goals scored so far has been respectable. Like everyone has already said. City spent well and lots. Had a good core of players who put them miles ahead of a rebuilding project. Just the sheer fact of the number of players they were able to bring him for thei lr rebuilding speaks to their progress with their rebuilding. We have been somewhat slower. It doesn’t take away the fact that we are doing well this season.

With some of our current fan base, there’s absolutely no way to please them.

There is no problem with the fanbase. Those very fans are continuing to buy tickets, merchandise, tv subscriptions and they are the very reason why United are doing so well commercially lately without having won a major title for several years. We have the best fanbase in the whole fecking planet. Spurs have been progressing, Liverpool, Chelsea, the aim is not to progress the aim is to win the EPL back. SAFs aim was to knock scousers of the perch and did it. Jose has all the resources to at least win the league.

 

[SER19]

There is no problem with the fanbase. Those very fans are continuing to buy tickets, merchandise, tv subscriptions and they are the very reason why United are doing so well commercially lately without having won a major title for several years. We have the best fanbase in the whole fecking planet. Spurs have been progressing, Liverpool, Chelsea, the aim is not to progress the aim is to win the EPL back. SAFs aim was to knock scousers of the perch and did it. Jose has all the resources to at least win the league.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. That is a strong dose of self righteousness to pack into a post, presumably with a straight face. Poor tortured fan hasn't seen his team win a title since 2013, even though he bought some tickets and a mouse mat.

This post should be the mantra for about 50% of this forum

 

[Canagel]

You need to be creating chances to be clinical. We’ve created more clear cut chances than any other team in the league bar City. Our football isn’t as exciting as some other top teams but this nonsense that we’re shite and haven’t improved is baseless to say the least. You don’t go from sixth to second, scoring and creating the second most chances in the league without improving your attack. You don’t have the joint best defence in the league without improving your defence either.

Fact of the matter is City have been phenomenal and it’s clouding everyone’s judgment on the progress we’ve made. They’ve simply just been better, doesn’t mean we’re shite and directionless and doomed. We’ve made immense progress, becoming competitive again is a gradual process, anamolies like Leicester aside.

I didn't say we are shite or we haven't improved. My big issue with this team at the moment is that we haven't improved enough to play expansive football in Mourinho's eyes. This in turn explains why we are so defensive in the big games. It's because Mourinho doesn't believe the defence can hold out if we start to take more risks in attack. The balance isn't there yet and this added to our inability in keeping the ball is hurting the team massively. Why does De Gea make so many saves despite us being labelled a 'defensive' team? We may be 2nd but if we actually started to open up a bit and attack we would concede goals like Liverpool do. Of course I don't deny we have improved a lot. We used to go into games fearing the worst under LVG and Moyes and now we are much more confident as fans that we will get good results. However there are no guarantees we will finish 2nd either because as things stand we are in danger of being dragged into a top 4 battle if we aren't careful. See my previous post above about what I think of the season so far.

 

[joleb]

Saying that Pep is better than Mou after only 1.5 years is ridiculous.

Great managers are measured by their long leadership for a club not by only 1 season (aka Conte, Ranieri, ... )

 

[reddevil702]

Progress? City. The league is the biggest barometer of actual peformance levels. But we'd have the bigger glory given the status if the champions league.

I don't think we can win the CL though. It should be really exciting to see how we do but based on our showings vs the better teams, it's hard to see us beating all the ones we'd face let alone the elite teams.

I think pep was mostly brought in to achieve European success. If he doesn't win the Champions league then no matter how great his teams look he will have achieved the same success as their previous managers.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think pep was mostly brought in to achieve European success. If he doesn't win the Champions league then no matter how great his teams look he will have achieved the same success as their previous managers.

Not really. City won 2 league titles prior to Pep's time there. They also won a grand total of zero titles over the previous three seasons before this one. And the quality of the PL is improving at the moment with better managers and resources. It's one of the biggest and most prestigious trophies/titles around. So let's not pretend winning it isn't a big deal. If he consistently gets the better of Jose (and the rest) in the PL it will be a huge step in his career and for City and absolutely miserable for us.

You appeared to be trying to make yourself feel better about their league title. Can't blame United fans for trying the find ways to make it seem a smaller deal than it is I suppose.

 

[reddevil702]

Not really. City won 2 league titles prior to Pep's time there. They also won a grand total of zero titles over the previous three seasons before this one. And the quality of the PL is improving at the moment with better managers and resources. It's one of the biggest and most prestigious trophies/titles around. So let's not pretend winning it isn't a big deal. If he consistently gets the better of Jose (and the rest) in the PL it will be a huge step in his career and for City and absolutely miserable for us.

You appeared to be trying to make yourself feel better about their league title. Can't blame United fans for trying the find ways to make it seem a smaller deal than it is I suppose.

Not at all, winning the league is huge accomplishment no doubt, and the way Pep is doing makes it seem even more glorious. But Pellegrini and Mancini both won the PL with City. If Pep wins the league this year and fails to win it again next year, all while not winning a single CL would he be considered more successful than the previous managers?

 

[Kapardin]

There is no problem with the fanbase. Those very fans are continuing to buy tickets, merchandise, tv subscriptions and they are the very reason why United are doing so well commercially lately without having won a major title for several years. We have the best fanbase in the whole fecking planet. Spurs have been progressing, Liverpool, Chelsea, the aim is not to progress the aim is to win the EPL back. SAFs aim was to knock scousers of the perch and did it. Jose has all the resources to at least win the league.

No offense, but this post was a bit of a cringe.

Spurs have been progressing according to their ambitions of staying in the top 4. We cannot compare ourselves with them.

Liverpool progressed by making top 4 last season and they have remained stagnant this season. Jose has actually done better than Klopp by winning the two trophies Liverpool bottled and currently having us in 2nd, so our progress is greater than Liverpool anyway.

Chelsea already had a top 4 squad, which overachieved by winning the title last season. They lack a bit of depth, but they got a world class player in Hazard and a solid midfield to keep them up there. And how have they progressed this season anyway? They have dropped from 1st to 3rd and been poor in the transfer market. Their football is fairly pedestrian as well.

What resources do we have now to win the league? 2 failed wingers as FBs, shite #10s, lack of midfield depth and inconsistent LW and RW.

So many posts complaining about us being 2nd when we have finished 7th, 4th and 6th in previous seasons is a bit rich.

 

[Suedesi]

Some of you need to watch this:
http://barca-media.com/video2/2010-11/Champions League/Final Barca-MU/

Barcelona - Man Utd 2011 CL Final

Fergie's last hurrah in Europe, vs Pep's all conquering team.

That's the same situation we're facing now 7 years later. If you think SAF's cavalier approach worked better - have a look. Watch that second half and tell me how do you defeat tiki taka

 

[Suedesi]

The task is to win either CL or EPL during Mous tenure. Two seasons are gone, the gap is increasing. I am ready to bet that Pep will still finish above Mou in the third.

Are we out the CL?

 

[RedStrudel76]

If Mourinho doesn't secure 2nd spot, would it be right to call for his head? it would be a failure... given our position. To hold onto it.

I think he's in serious trouble if he lets Sevilla knock us out of the CL, too.

 

[RedStrudel76]

His very blunt and critical approch didn't work wonder last season either. We got some short term boost of effort, but we did keep on missing plenty of easy chances didn't we.

Jose seem far too negative these days sadly. It has been the case since the Real madrid years really. I don't really agree with the ruthless comments here. A manager need to be ruthless in his selection and pick a team that will work and not have a say bias like "my captain shall always play" in order to get together the best team possible. Although a positive relationship with his players will surely help. He have had it before, but not sure about it here.

The Real Madrid job has crushed him hasn't it? he knows the Kings Club is the daddy of them all so his ego getting sacked from there can't take it. Maybe he will get the chance to go back if they sack Zidane? he has unfinished business at Real Madrid IMO. He'd tear up the league and dick all over Barca.

 

[Suedesi]

Wank squad, the most expensive squad in the league being wank?? Lmfao. Now be a man and take a simple bet. I am sure Pep will do better with City and stay longer with City than Mou with United. You can bet on the opposite. The loser fecks off from the Caf. Got enough balls?

Pep has spent ~ half a billion at City in two years, and this is without mentioning KDB, Sterling, Otamendi, Aguero, Silva, Yaya etc who didn't exactly come free - so where did you get the most expensive squad from?

As for the bet, why don't you f**k off to Blue Moon already?