Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Fluctuation0161]

Sometimes you need to say that kind of stuff, they're not some kind of pussies not to take it on the chin.

True, but this isn’t the first time. He’s criticised his players frequently. At some point he has to use the carrot and not the stick.

Criticism within the dressing room I can understand. But the only benefit I can see of calling players out to the media is for Jose to save face.

 

[Kapardin]

I want Jose to stay, and I hope he will, but I have this feeling that we're creeping slowly to him quitting and joining PSG where he won't be bothered by Pep. I think he's still annoyed that we missed out on Perisic, and there's been little hints that he's open to leaving the job.

I don't think I'm overreacting to saying he shouldn't be calling the players out in public. I might be wrong, and we have a difference of opinion, but I think him calling out his players in public, again, might be one of the many signs of him leaving soon.

I am afraid of that too. Most do not realize we will struggle to appoint someone as good as him. But he will stay if he is provided the transfer funds he's asked for, and so far, the noises are that Ed will sanction some buys this Jan followed by big spending this summer, so hopefully he stays and extends his deal.

 

[kul m]

I am not the biggest Jose Mourinho fan but he is our manager, so we have to stick by him.

Although I have to say slagging some players off publicly ( leicester post match) may not be a great move on his part. It's not the first time this season its has happened as well. To me, we (utd) seem somewhat disjointed, lukaku down on confidence, miki missing for 6+ games, is shaw in or out?, whose the favourite at the minute rashford or martial?, what pogba's best position, is matic lacking pace.....and so on, I may sound critical but this is what I am seeing. Is this down to Mourinho style of play, management, I hope not but it seems like I have said before, we look disjointed, players are going off the boil.

 

[Garethw]

So the general consensus on here is that the players are letting Mourinho down and he needs hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds more to be spent to get them playing good football.

That is utter bullshit in my opinion. A great manager should be able to get the best out of a team through training and motivation. We have the players to play good entertaining football.

Yes, we do need to invest if we want to turn good football (which this squad IS capable of playing) into great football. That’s obvious, but Mourinho is not getting the best out of this group of players. Not at all. He is failing just as much as the players are.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Teams have ups and downs across a season, City haven’t so far. Too many people collectively shitting themselves.

This. We played really well yesterday, even with the ridiculous missed chances. People still forget that we have one of the best point totals to start a Prem season, it just doesn't look very good because City have gone nuclear and are playing at a historically great level.

We're fine.

 

[SAFicus]

He took over a worse squad with a drinking culture, they were also different times which you can't compare like for like. Football and its culture was different in those days, it wasn't a given that you were at the peak of your fitness levels, there wasn't the technology and the statistics+know how that we have nowadays to achieve that, the pressure on players and managers are on a smaller scale thanks to social media not existing, the money in the game is bigger than ever as are the stakes so less patience, etc etc.

Nowadays, 2-3 seasons is enough time in modern football to establish a squad that at least plays in your style (which was what I responded to don't forget: (for example, like earlier Mourinho teams, possess maturity and brains to finish games off). If you don't believe that is enough time for any manager, then Mourinho is not as good as you think he is and he will not succeed anywhere in world football today as he isn't afforded enough time. Luckily his record suggests by the 2nd season his team play exactly in the way he wants them to though, so 2 seasons of time is not the issue... NORMALLY.

This one feels like it still lacks that steel and maturity.


I am strictly posing the question that naturally comes from your post that I quoted: "why is this team still lacking in areas that are uncharacteristical for a Mourinho team in his second season and when do we stop saying it's player a or b when he's had x transfer windows to replace these players?".

Justify it however you like.

End of the day SAF and Jose faced very different challenges when taking over. SAF faced the obstacles you have outlined and a giant of the game in Liverpool. Jose faces a much wealthier league where all clubs have top athletes throughout their squads and teams with almost limitless spending power.

What we need to be focusing on is whether Jose is improving us. The truth is Jose has improved us season on season and that has to be good enough for us for now, because there is no alternative that guarantees enough progress to be worth sacrificing the little stability we have right now.

Most on here need to have a good hard think about the following:

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference"

I'll give you all a clue. United cannot change how other top teams are performing and outside the context of this seasons league table we are doing well.

 

[Ban]

True, but this isn’t the first time. He’s criticised his players frequently. At some point he has to use the carrot and not the stick.

Criticism within the dressing room I can understand. But the only benefit I can see of calling players out to the media is for Jose to save face.

He was praising the team a lots of times too and I'm sure he uses a carrot in the dressing room too.

 

[Sky1981]

So the general consensus on here is that the players are letting Mourinho down and he needs hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds more to be spent to get them playing good football.

That is utter bullshit in my opinion. A great manager should be able to get the best out of a team through training and motivation. We have the players to play good entertaining football.

Yes, we do need to invest if we want to turn good football (which this squad IS capable of playing) into great football. That’s obvious, but Mourinho is not getting the best out of this group of players. Not at all. He is failing just as much as the players are.

Wow. 2nd is failing these days.

We have no god given right to win the epl every year, stop being unrealistic.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

So the general consensus on here is that the players are letting Mourinho down and he needs hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds more to be spent to get them playing good football.

That is utter bullshit in my opinion. A great manager should be able to get the best out of a team through training and motivation. We have the players to play good entertaining football.

Yes, we do need to invest if we want to turn good football (which this squad IS capable of playing) into great football. That’s obvious, but Mourinho is not getting the best out of this group of players. Not at all. He is failing just as much as the players are.

Thank you. Been saying this for ages too.

 

[iamherenow]

So the general consensus on here is that the players are letting Mourinho down and he needs hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds more to be spent to get them playing good football.

That is utter bullshit in my opinion. A great manager should be able to get the best out of a team through training and motivation. We have the players to play good entertaining football.

Yes, we do need to invest if we want to turn good football (which this squad IS capable of playing) into great football. That’s obvious, but Mourinho is not getting the best out of this group of players. Not at all. He is failing just as much as the players are.

if he was getting the best out of his players,where do you feel we would be?..

 

[Hawks2008]

Wow. 2nd is failing these days.

"If you're not first, you're last"

 

[Borden]

Wow. 2nd is failing these days.

We have no god given right to win the epl every year, stop being unrealistic.

‘These days’? You think SAF was happy finishing 2nd?

 

[Womp]

‘These days’? You think SAF was happy finishing 2nd?

SAF is gone. People need to move on. SAF wouldn't have been happy with second, I guarantee you neither is Jose. Not even SAF has managed points like this City team is regardless.

 

[Womp]

"If you're not first, you're last"

Which is true in essence, but it's obvious major improvement, which can hardly be considered 'failing'

 

[Di Maria's angel]

So the general consensus on here is that the players are letting Mourinho down and he needs hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds more to be spent to get them playing good football.

That is utter bullshit in my opinion. A great manager should be able to get the best out of a team through training and motivation. We have the players to play good entertaining football.

Yes, we do need to invest if we want to turn good football (which this squad IS capable of playing) into great football. That’s obvious, but Mourinho is not getting the best out of this group of players. Not at all. He is failing just as much as the players are.

Like Pep, right? Spent £0 and hit the ground running.

It's not about spending "hundreds and hundreds of millions", I'm sure we could have built a great team in less than £100m if prices weren't so inflated.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

"If you're not first, you're last"

Very short sighted view. In this day and age, it isn't. Think about the money you receive for finishing second. The incentives such as automatic qualification into the CL, it all matters.

 

[Water Melon]

Second is not something to be proud of, neither for Jose nor for the club. SAF set the standards really high, but we have enough resources to make it at least a proper title race this season. We kissed goodbye to league fairly early last season, this year it was even earlier. Some people may enjoy being second, but I do not think for once that City are invincible. So the gap is quite embarassing already imo.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Second is not something to be proud of, neither for Jose nor for the club. SAF set the standards really high, but we have enough resources to make it at least a proper title race this season. We kissed goodbye to league fairly early last season, this year it was even earlier. Some people may enjoy being second, but I do not think for once that City are invincible. So the gap is quite embarassing already imo.

No one is proud of second. I'm happy to see progress. I'm happy that we're still chasing City unlike in the previous 4 seasons where we hadn't challenged once.

Last season, we pretty much gave up on the league by October. This year, whilst being 13 points behind, there's plenty of time left. People forget that we once lost an 8 point lead in the matter of three/four games. Anything is possible.

 

[Garethw]

if he was getting the best out of his players,where do you feel we would be?..

I’m not delusional enough to believe that we’d be neck and neck with City, but the gap would be closer imo. We do need to reinforce as we aren’t a title winning squad yet.

But if he was getting the best out of the players he has got, the fans would be an awful lot happier with the football being played.

We just don’t look like a very well coached team, which is crazy considering Mourinho is one of the very best coaches of the modern era.

My point is that his negative setup, system and mindset is stifling the team.

Our points accumulation has been very good, but our football has been dreadful to watch.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I’m not delusional enough to believe that we’d be neck and neck with City, but the gap would be closer imo. We do need to reinforce as we aren’t a title winning squad yet.

But if he was getting the best out of the players he has got, the fans would be an awful lot happier with the football being played.

We just don’t look like a very well coached team, which is crazy considering Mourinho is one of the very best coaches of the modern era.

My point is that his negative setup, system and mindset is stifling the team.

Our points accumulation has been very good, but our football has been dreadful to watch.

In the previous 20 seasons, only 7 Manchester United teams had scored more goals than this current one at the halfway stage and, if I'm correct, 5 of them went on to win the league. I don't know about you but scoring goals and winning games is quite entertaining. Okay, we're not winning everything but having scored at over 2 goals per game and having won nearly 70% of them, I have to say, we're far from boring this season.

 

[Garethw]

Wow. 2nd is failing these days.

We have no god given right to win the epl every year, stop being unrealistic.

My post isn’t about being second. It’s about how our manager is not getting the best out of our existing squad. The squad we have are capable of playing good football. The shite football is on Mourinho imo.

 

[rio's upper lip]

He needs more of his own players. Bailly, Pogba, Matic and Zlatan have all largely been successes -- the past eight months for Zlatan notwithstanding. Lukaku, Mkhitaryan and Lindelöf have had some good to excellent periods at the club as well. He needs new full backs, he needs new attacking wide players and he needs to be able to replace some of the midfield dross we're currently stuck with. When that happens, I'm sure we'll mount a bigger and more serious title challenge next time around.

It must be infuriating for him to look across to the other side of the city and watch the blueshite owners handing out blank checks at Josep's every whim.

 

[Water Melon]

No one is proud of second. I'm happy to see progress. I'm happy that we're still chasing City unlike in the previous 4 seasons where we hadn't challenged once.

Last season, we pretty much gave up on the league by October. This year, whilst being 13 points behind, there's plenty of time left. People forget that we once lost an 8 point lead in the matter of three/four games. Anything is possible.

Makes no sense to me. We are not chasing City, we are trying to keep our 2nd place imo. This year the league was gone in November. Anything can happen does not sound a reasonable argument either. Because anything can happen to anything at any time. The reality is 13 points gap and City being unstoppable. Also, we still do not have a settled team and that is quite bad as Jose has only one summer transfer left under his current contract. Lately, we are starting to leak goals and the defense does look that solid any more. Neither does midfield or attack. Is Jose the main man to blame - absolutely. People maybe happy with how we are doing, but I am not. Could and should have done much better. Jose lost to Pep in La Liga even after leading his team to 96 points. The truth is that it takes being real special to beat Pep during a season. Jose is far from it, hopefully just yet. Lost to Conte and 4 other managers in his first season, losing it badly against Pep in the second. Lets see what he does next season. This season we threw a white towel early again. Jose may be doing better than 18 other managers, but with resources at his disposal the task is winning the league.

 

[Kostov]

Makes no sense to me. We are not chasing City, we are trying to keep our 2nd place imo. This year the league was gone in November. Anything can happen does not sound a reasonable argument either. Because anything can happen to anything at any time. The reality is 13 points gap and City being unstoppable. Also, we still do not have a settled team and that is quite bad as Jose has only one summer transfer left under his current contract. Lately, we are starting to leak goals and the defense does look that solid any more. Neither does midfield or attack. Is Jose the main man to blame - absolutely. People maybe happy with how we are doing, but I am not. Could and should have done much better. Jose lost to Pep in La Liga even after leading his team to 96 points. The truth is that it takes being real special to beat Pep during a season. Jose is far from it, hopefully just yet. Lost to Conte and 4 other managers in his first season, losing it badly against Pep in the second. Lets see what he does next season. This season we threw a white towel early again. Jose may be doing better than 18 other managers, but with resources at his disposal the task is winning the league.

You missed the second season at Real when Jose's team scored 121 goals and won the league... over Pep.

 

[Water Melon]

You missed the second season at Real when Jose's team scored 121 goals and won the league... over Pep.

So, Jose is capable of doing it. We all know it. So far he is well behind, failing at the very top level compared to his own standards. He is the Special one according to himself. Lets see what is so special about him next season. This one is already lost to Pep.

 

[Kostov]

So, Jose is capable of doing it. We all know it. So far he is well behind, failing at the very top level compared to his own standards.

You just said Jose is far from special when he has demonstrated the opposite his whole career. Using last season to demonstrate how he lost to Conte, Pep barely finished 3th/4th last year? or am I wrong? So he also lost to Conte with a much better squad inherited than Jose and he has spent 100m more just this last transfer window...

 

[Water Melon]

You juts said Jose is far from special when he has demonstrated the opposite his whole career. Using last season to demonstrate how he lost to Conte, Pep barely finished 3th/4th last year? or am I wrong? So he also lost to Conte with a much better squad inherited than Jose and he has spent 100m more just this last transfer window...

You can check Jose's career it is full of wins and bitter losses. Van Gaal used to be one hell of a manager and then lost it, same applies to many others. Jose was the special one but this time at United he has not shown it for 2 seasons. Zizou did better at Real than Jose did, Conte won the league with Chelsea, while Jose left it with 1 point above relegation zone at that time. At United Jose does not seem to be Special, it is up to him.to show it again. He cant rest on his laurels, no manager can, including Pep, Zizu and others. Fecking Luis Enrique was fired after winning a treble, Zizu's position is under no guarantee despite managing to achieve something that has not bern achieved by anyone in the modern era. Jose is supposed to be up there amoung the cream of very small top managers pool, we will see if he is still there at the end of his third season, or is he at the level of Poch, Wenger etc. If he does not win the league next season, I'll say that both Conte and Pep will have done a better job.

 

[SuperiorXI]

At the start of the season did anybody think we'd win the title? I expected a title challenge but honestly with the way City have just annihilated everyone in sight that was never possible.

 

[diplomat]

My main criticism of Mourinho is that he isn't as lively as he used to be. His demeanour has been very dark most of the times, either snapping or being depressed during press conferences, sitting on the bench with a grimace on the face during games and generally never even smiling.

It feels as if he isn't happy or motivated on the job, which can never be good for the shape, mentality and style of the team. I still support him and know he can achieve the set targets that Manchester United have, but Jose needs to rethink his strategy and approach to the job, create a feeling that he isn't here just to deliver a few trophies no matter what but build an actual legacy and a squad to be remembered, just like he always wanted before when he called himself "the Special One".

 

[Water Melon]

At the start of the season did anybody think we'd win the title? I expected a title challenge but honestly with the way City have just annihilated everyone in sight that was never possible.

Second season is supposed to be Jose's strongest, no?

 

[SuperiorXI]

Second season is supposed to be Jose's strongest, no?

Yep. I would say so far it has been. Do you disagree?

 

[rotherham_red]

So, Jose is capable of doing it. We all know it. So far he is well behind, failing at the very top level compared to his own standards. He is the Special one according to himself. Lets see what is so special about him next season. This one is already lost to Pep.

He also went on an unprecedented spending spree leading up to that title win. Could the same really be said of his time at Utd? He's been outspent by Pep both summers, and he has had to work to some semblance of a budget.

 

[Cheesy]

My main criticism of Mourinho is that he isn't as lively as he used to be. His demeanour has been very dark most of the times, either snapping or being depressed during press conferences, sitting on the bench with a grimace on the face during games and generally never even smiling.

It feels as if he isn't happy or motivated on the job, which can never be good for the shape, mentality and style of the team. I still support him and know he can achieve the set targets that Manchester United have, but Jose needs to rethink his strategy and approach to the job, create a feeling that he isn't here just to deliver a few trophies no matter what but build an actual legacy and a squad to be remembered, just like he always wanted before when he called himself "the Special One".

There's definitely been a bit of a change to him in recent years. He doesn't really have the same demeanour as the arrogant winner we saw when he was first at Chelsea. I think you could arguably trace it back to his spell at Real Madrid; even when he returned to Chelsea in 13-14 and evidently improved them, he didn't seem quite himself. I remember him pretty much conceding the title towards the end of that season when they were still in the race and it seemed very un-Mourinho-like, mind games or no.

Of course, could be he's just mellowed to an extent. Which most players/managers tend to do as they age.

 

[Cheesy]

He also went on an unprecedented spending spree leading up to that title win. Could the same really be said of his time at Utd? He's been outspent by Pep both summers, and he has had to work to some semblance of a budget.

He spent a lot at Chelsea but some of the deals he got players on at the start of 04-05 were fairly modest. The purchase of Cech was, in retrospect, a complete bargain, and you could argue he got Drogba and Carvalho for decent prices. He might not be the top spender here but he's spent a ton on Pogba and Lukaku. And it's not a great excuse, anyway: in 06-07 Fergie was able to finally eclipse that Mourinho team with a number of our key players (Ronaldo, VDS, Evra and Vidic) all being bought on relatively cheap deals considering the impact they had.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He also went on an unprecedented spending spree leading up to that title win. Could the same really be said of his time at Utd? He's been outspent by Pep both summers, and he has had to work to some semblance of a budget.

We can't as lazy to blame spending surely. Sané and Walker are the only two outfield players who Pep has bought who's actually feutured in the 11 for them every week. Let's be honest and give the managers their due. The team Pep inherited wasn't as strong as we many would like to think today. Silva was considered over the hill, Aguero was a crock almost like Kompany, Otamendi was a joke, Sterling was a joke and a flop, and very few of their new signings have actually performed for them.

 

[haram]

We can't as lazy to blame spending surely. Sané and Walker are the only two outfield players who Pep has bought who's actually feutured in the 11 for them every week. Let's be honest and give the managers their due. The team Pep inherited wasn't as strong as we many would like to think today. Silva was considered over the hill, Aguero was a crock almost like Kompany, Otamendi was a joke, Sterling was a joke and a flop, and very few of their new signings have actually performed for them.

They still spent big money. Sterling, Otamendi and de Bruyne were good enough to compete at the top. Players like Depay and Schneiderlin weren't. Pep even had Aguero and Silva available to him from signings made way back. Pep has had an advantage.

 

[Water Melon]

Yep. I would say so far it has been. Do you disagree?

Most assuredly disagree, unless you mean that it is Mou at his best. Are we up for a collapse in his third?

 

[Kapardin]

We can't as lazy to blame spending surely. Sané and Walker are the only two outfield players who Pep has bought who's actually feutured in the 11 for them every week. Let's be honest and give the managers their due. The team Pep inherited wasn't as strong as we many would like to think today. Silva was considered over the hill, Aguero was a crock almost like Kompany, Otamendi was a joke, Sterling was a joke and a flop, and very few of their new signings have actually performed for them.

This is contradictory. On the one hand you are saying Pep didn't sign many, on the other you are saying it wasn't a strong team. So basically Pep elevated them to god-mode magically?

The truth is, Pep inherited a strong team with underperforming stars and a weakness in defense. He bought a lot of players, motivated the likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Otamendi and Fernandinho and coached the already talented players like Sterling to realize their potential. When he made mistakes (Nolito and Bravo), he was given enough cash to rectify it.

Under such conditions, most managers who are already elite will be successful. Pep inherited a good team with weaknesses and was allowed to bring in whoever he wanted to eliminate the weaknesses.

Nobody ever thought Aguero was just a crock as he was still figuring fairly regularly per season for City, despite having injury problems. And I'd like to know who branded Silva as over the hill, first time I'm hearing it.

Pep is doing well, but there is no need to exaggerate.

 

[Water Melon]

He also went on an unprecedented spending spree leading up to that title win. Could the same really be said of his time at Utd? He's been outspent by Pep both summers, and he has had to work to some semblance of a budget.

Do you mean he has not been backed enough financially? Also, does it mean he can only win over Pep if he outspends him? If that is the case, then we are in a deeper trouble than I expected. Pep will continue to spend a lot.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Most assuredly disagree, unless you mean that it is Mou at his best. Are we up for a collapse in his third?

So you think we were better off last season at this point?