Teams have ups and downs across a season, City haven’t so far. Too many people collectively shitting themselves.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Great post!
I think Jose is doing a good job, any other year we would be first
Yep you can't have it both ways. I personally prefer to see us play football where we are dominating like yesterday as long term it's the best way for us to get back to winning titles so you won't see me complain about results like yesterday as shit happens.. some silly decision making cost us but ultimately we played well and it was the way we should approach games in general.
If the players can’t handle being called childish after the most childish performance I’ve ever seen then they don’t belong at the club. I am not a huge Jose fan but I’m glad he’s called those players out, absolute disgrace.
The problem I have though is that he is not teaching them enough about attacking moves and when to let the ball go. Pogba, Martial, Rashford suffer as a result I think. You can bet that Pep is teaching the likes of Sane and Sterling so that they improve. Sterling still look quite childish, but Pep is getting the best out of him too though.
He should not blame them, but rather in training tomorrow try to teach them what they should do a lot more.
I think the journalists hit the nail on the head when probing Pogba’s captaincy. This game was given away through farcical complacency that a proper leader on the pitch would have snuffed out the. Chances get missed.. that’s only a small part of the problem. The lacklustre turning over of possession, unilateral aborting of counter attacks, refusal to reorganise defence, delay in responding to injury, squabbling... were all plain to see. Jose needs a sergeant on the pitch - not a captain.
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Likewise I don't think you have any interest in being a true fan of the club, if you did then there's no way you could come up with rubbish like this. I've watched the game twice and listened to Mourinho's comments afterwards and can't imagine there's a United fan who can come up with such an opinion.
I wonder if he will be here next season. Not saying I want it to happen, but his sullen demeanour on the touchline makes him look like he wishes he was elsewhere, PSG next season perhaps.
Ye but as a counter-argument Jose also needs to produce results while building that sort of side or he'll be out of a job and if today proved anything it's that these players can't be relied on consistently to finish the goods, not yet anyway. I do hope we are building towards the sort of team that is capable of playing that sort of football consistently - we've shown we can play some great football under Jose when we want to.
The argument that every other year we would be first is wrong. City is having a crazy season, but Chelsea also had a crazy season last year. 93 points.
Fact is Jose and Woodward need to bring in some proper world class talent, because the usual 85-87 points aren't gonna be enough to win the title with Conte and Pep around.
Fact is Jose and Woodward need to bring in some proper world class talent, because the usual 85-87 points aren't gonna be enough to win the title with Conte and Pep around.
We wouldn't. Forget City and look at the other leaders in the top leagues. Napoli has 3 points more with one game less. Barca has 3 points more with 2 games less. Bayern sacked already a manager and still are only 1 point behind with 2 games less. We would be 5-8 points off everywhere else too. The gap to City is exceptional, but we aren't really in title winning form either. And City's record shows me that you can collect a ton of points in the PL and that there will be always a team that does that. Conte's team walked it too last year and won sth like 20 in a row at some point. We just can't do it because we are not good enough, we are right now what Spurs were last year. Getting 80+ points with around 5,6 losses, that rarely wins you the title anywhere.
None of that is applicable to yesterday, when we had absolutely ridiculous chances to put the game to bed. That is on the players.
It is certainly applicable to yesterday as it is to pretty much all our games. Martial and Lingards misses should just be goals 9/10 times. Low confidence in the case of Martial and Lingard is just something he does at times cause he is quite good at missing obvious chances.
The main problem for me yesterday was Pogba. He was terrible and he just never let the ball go in the right times. That got to be partly on the manager and the lack of training how we shall attack.
We couldn't keep the ball 11 vs 10 well which is also on the manager.
Being critical of the manager isn't the same as being critical of the club.
This is such a anti Jose team. They don't know how to close a game.
Because it is José, there is a cause for concern.
That's the thing I don't think you can win titles without playing good football and that doesn't mean pretty football but solid football, competent in possession, able to create chances at will and defend well without having to sit deep like it's helms deep.
Past Jose teams were good football sides without necessarily being aesthetically the best.. this current team has struggled to consistently show its a good football side and very regularly looks second best in many games.
Yeah, that's the problem with Jose's teams, he prefers to close the match instead of finishing it off.
Looks like he insinuated Rashford is an idiot. "If Marcus isn't intelligent enough to do that then thats it"
You must be devastated.
These matches happen. I don't blame Jose one bit. the title race was already over as we had left ourselves too much to do. In a normal season, this would be "one of those days" which has happened much less this season than last season. Tensions are just higher because of City taking the piss out of the league. There will be more games like this so get used to it. Its part and parcel of a 38 game season.
So here’s something that a lot of people don’t know or realise. And I’m not claiming this, Wenger said this in an interview along side Fergie.
The most important person in a football club is the MANAGER! When it all goes to plan he gets the plaudits, when it all goes wrong he gets the sack. Players don’t get sacked.
Jose is responsible for our squad quality, the way we play, the players he buys etc etc
The most important person in a football club is the MANAGER! When it all goes to plan he gets the plaudits, when it all goes wrong he gets the sack. Players don’t get sacked.
Jose is responsible for our squad quality, the way we play, the players he buys etc etc
Surely if this goed on next year after five or six transfer windows, it's on him? He should have had enough time to build a 'Jose team' right?
Couldn’t disagree more so we’ll leave it at that.
When a 2nd year Mourinho team is struggling to finish off games (at both ends), then you know that he's failing at his job, and miserably at that.
But this must be only because the board doesn't back him enough
Best season since SAF left so far and he is failing miserably
Get a grip son.
How many windows did SAF need?
I didn't watch the game yesterday but from what I've heard the players didn't perform yesterday as opposed to the manager. Jose has 2 big transfer windows ahead of him and I'm sure he's going to make the most of both opportunities.
If he is given unlimited funds for the next 3 transfer windows he'd still find some excuse - probably that the weather in Manchester puts off some of his targets from signing. If city win a double or more he'll be off.
What can you do when experienced players like Matic and pogba suddenly start giving away possession in stoppage time?
You can't cure someone losing their mind.
His usual second season extravaganza doesn’t look like it’s going to happen but that doesn’t mean he is failing. This is new territory for him and he needs to stick it out like SAF did when building his last great team.
I think this whole sentiment that this his peak and he will fall in his third season has been over exaggerated. I said 2 months ago and now I am even more convinced in saying this , maybe next year could be jose''s actual second season. He surely will not take the same players forward. Darmian, Blind, Herrera, Fellaini, Carrick, Mkhi could all be gone and could be replaced by better players. Even he could spring a surpirse by taking a cull on either Smalling or Jones. But next summer he has to be ruthless.
He took over a worse squad with a drinking culture, they were also different times which you can't compare like for like. Football and its culture was different in those days, it wasn't a given that you were at the peak of your fitness levels, there wasn't the technology and the statistics+know how that we have nowadays to achieve that, the pressure on players and managers are on a smaller scale thanks to social media not existing, the money in the game is bigger than ever as are the stakes so less patience, etc etc.
Nowadays, 2-3 seasons is enough time in modern football to establish a squad that at least plays in your style (which was what I responded to don't forget: (for example, like earlier Mourinho teams, possess maturity and brains to finish games off). If you don't believe that is enough time for any manager, then Mourinho is not as good as you think he is and he will not succeed anywhere in world football today as he isn't afforded enough time. Luckily his record suggests by the 2nd season his team play exactly in the way he wants them to though, so 2 seasons of time is not the issue... NORMALLY.
This one feels like it still lacks that steel and maturity.
I am strictly posing the question that naturally comes from your post that I quoted: "why is this team still lacking in areas that are uncharacteristical for a Mourinho team in his second season and when do we stop saying it's player a or b when he's had x transfer windows to replace these players?".
Last night wasn’t down to attacking play. To be fair to Jose is addressing that problem by selecting the players that are better at linking up together. Rashford just doesn’t have
agree with this! Yesterday wasn’t about a lack of good attacking football. To be fair to Jose, he’s spotted and addressed the dysfunctional attacking by selecting players that link play better. Not a coincidence Rashford dropped, Mata, Martial and Lingard have come in behind Lukaku. These are players that don’t need lots of coaching to play together. Rashford too often on his own wavelength. Point is that Jose is trying to improve the attack.
Word.
Totally agree with this (especially with next season being equal to his usual second season heroics). He may have underestimated just how broken this squad was but I sense a major shake up for next season. For now, winning the FA cup, securing top 4 and going deep into CL will do.
How far are we for Mourinho to finish his team? to look like his past winning teams. 4-2-3-1
GK ..check
CBs ... almost check, he always had at least 1 top notch senior defender who provided consistent performance
fullbacks...err. Really don't think Mou was that keen on having top expensive fullbacks on his past teams.
Midfield : Pogba+Matic ..checks
Striker : ..err check. Well he is a Mou type of striker ala Drogba, DiegoCosta.
Reserves : check(good enough)
The 3 behind the striker are the main problem. Rashford/Martial/Mata/Mkhi/Lingard should take 1 spot on the starting line-up.
We need 2 completly new class and expensive players.
GK ..check
CBs ... almost check, he always had at least 1 top notch senior defender who provided consistent performance
fullbacks...err. Really don't think Mou was that keen on having top expensive fullbacks on his past teams.
Midfield : Pogba+Matic ..checks
Striker : ..err check. Well he is a Mou type of striker ala Drogba, DiegoCosta.
Reserves : check(good enough)
The 3 behind the striker are the main problem. Rashford/Martial/Mata/Mkhi/Lingard should take 1 spot on the starting line-up.
We need 2 completly new class and expensive players.
A one goal lead isn’t enough to start resting players. Even though they had 10 men it never looked like we were comfortable in the match, despite the wasted chances. Looking ahead to future games seems negligent until we had secured the 3 points, especially considering the danger from Leicester.
I don’t think there’s a better manager than Jose out there for us right now. But the public negativity from him about the players does seem like it could get toxic.
I want Jose to stay, and I hope he will, but I have this feeling that we're creeping slowly to him quitting and joining PSG where he won't be bothered by Pep. I think he's still annoyed that we missed out on Perisic, and there's been little hints that he's open to leaving the job.
I don't think I'm overreacting to saying he shouldn't be calling the players out in public. I might be wrong, and we have a difference of opinion, but I think him calling out his players in public, again, might be one of the many signs of him leaving soon.
Referring to the players as 'childish' in such a public manner does concern me slightly. It's one thing to berate them in the dressing room, it's another to do so publicly.
Because it creates a distance between player and manager. And that's not healthy. Us against them - that's what we need. That's what Ferguson had and that's what Mourinho has had during his successful spells. We know we're not going to win the league, but there has to be a show of unity and defiance on our part.
Now we find ourselves in a situation where Mourinho has doubts over some of his players and some of the players have doubts over Mourinho. Not cool. Definitely not cool.
Mourinho has credit in the bank with the majority of United fans - two trophies last year and evident progression has earned him that. Fans aren't stupid, they can see that this squad has limitations and it's why Mourinho himself isn't coming under the kind of scrutiny that he might do otherwise.
Because it creates a distance between player and manager. And that's not healthy. Us against them - that's what we need. That's what Ferguson had and that's what Mourinho has had during his successful spells. We know we're not going to win the league, but there has to be a show of unity and defiance on our part.
Now we find ourselves in a situation where Mourinho has doubts over some of his players and some of the players have doubts over Mourinho. Not cool. Definitely not cool.
Mourinho has credit in the bank with the majority of United fans - two trophies last year and evident progression has earned him that. Fans aren't stupid, they can see that this squad has limitations and it's why Mourinho himself isn't coming under the kind of scrutiny that he might do otherwise.
Looks like he insinuated Rashford is an idiot. "If Marcus isn't intelligent enough to do that then thats it"
You must be devastated.
I think he is implying the media sometimes think going down easily is being 'intelligent'. He spoke about the Swansea penalty last year as well and how Rashford was slaughtered for going down. When other players do it there is not as much uproar.
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