With Cameron Borthwick Jackson & Angel Gomes coming on at half time just to keep the lad happy
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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With Cameron Borthwick Jackson & Angel Gomes coming on at half time just to keep the lad happy
Obdurate pillock!
This is the same dude that lost back to back games to Southampton at Old Trafford. His set up made Tadic & Charlie Austin look like Messi & Ronaldo
Huddersfield wernt too bad either tbf
I think there's a big misconception among Mourinho loyalists that his critics are just spoilt. That we have no right to demand United play breathtaking football and so shouldn't be taken seriously.
As one of those critics I find the 'spoilt' argument ridiculous to be honest. If we were demanding United win the league or Champions League as a minimum, that would be spoilt. But, judging by the posts on here, most of Mourinho's critics simply want to see United play entertaining, attacking football.
Clubs with far lesser resources than United - Liverpool and Spurs especially - manage to play attacking football, so why can't United? We've spent a fortune since 2014 so there's no excuse for relying on hoofball.
Having lived through the Fergie years, trophies don't bother me so much - they're a bonus. I watch United to be entertained, not to ensure a minimalist, ascetic struggle for silverware at all costs.
To be honest it seems Mourinho has become obsessed with the negative side of the game. Maybe it was his ultra-pragmatic victory over Barca in 2010; maybe it was his 5-0 humiliation the year after. But he seems to have turned pragmatism into some kind of fetish, and, if we're honest, it's been rubbish to watch for a while.
As one of those critics I find the 'spoilt' argument ridiculous to be honest. If we were demanding United win the league or Champions League as a minimum, that would be spoilt. But, judging by the posts on here, most of Mourinho's critics simply want to see United play entertaining, attacking football.
Clubs with far lesser resources than United - Liverpool and Spurs especially - manage to play attacking football, so why can't United? We've spent a fortune since 2014 so there's no excuse for relying on hoofball.
Having lived through the Fergie years, trophies don't bother me so much - they're a bonus. I watch United to be entertained, not to ensure a minimalist, ascetic struggle for silverware at all costs.
To be honest it seems Mourinho has become obsessed with the negative side of the game. Maybe it was his ultra-pragmatic victory over Barca in 2010; maybe it was his 5-0 humiliation the year after. But he seems to have turned pragmatism into some kind of fetish, and, if we're honest, it's been rubbish to watch for a while.
Huddersfield was away from home..... LVG lost to Southampton at Old Trafford for 2 seasons running playing some of the most diabolical football you can ever see.
Those clubs bought well over the years before their respective managers took the helm. Liverpool, for instance, had Coutinho before Klopp arrived....Spurs had Eriksen before Pochettino.
We don’t have any player with the ability of the aforementioned players before Jose arrived. It’s like you people don’t understand the pit Moyes/LVG plunged us into. I can’t remember the last time we were 2nd on the league table. It never happened under LVG & Moyes.
Yeah that’s because LVG had us sitting in 1st for a while
people make some ridiculous statements.It happened under LVG pal. We were top in October of his second season.
Think this mess is overstated tbh. We've still got DDG, Valencia, Jones, Smalling and Young, all of whom were regulars under Fergie, and we've added Pogba, Rashford and Martial - all of them top players.
LVG played attacking football my arse. At no point under Jose have we been as boring as an average LVG game.
Our football has been perfectly fine bar two or three games. We've scored 10 less goals than City in all comps so this statement is wrong in so many ways - yet they're heralded as the greatest ever sporting side to grace the planet. Even yesterday, we created a couple of good to very good opportunities which incidentally were more than teams such as Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool managed in their respective games against City.
You were top for one game week(GW7). It’s different from maintaining 2nd position from the start of the season till December.
Valencia/Young have aged considerably and they aren’t as good as they were under SAF. They were wingers then, they are full backs now.
Jones & Smalling have not progressed since 2012. Whenever it seems like the penny has dropped, an injury happens to one of them or both and they become covered in shit all over again. Rinse & repeat!
Again he restricted his players for the sake of positioning to try & attack as a team & not as individuals - something he took too far; it was still the case that he said that most of the time the opposition had to park the bus & capitalise on us losing the ball.
However the result are better under Jose but we are the team that is parking the bus & our restrictions are for the benefit of our defensive ability = ie defensive team
But by abracadabra, we have managed to score more goals than the ultra attacking teams like Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea.
The math doesn’t quite add up.
I know!
Are you not a United supporter? Or do you just like Jose so that’s why you are here?
Also this rubbish you’re referencing above about how our goal tally proves we are attacking is hilarious. That’s a really blinkered view.
Wazzam' What if I showed you we were also one of the best defensive teams? How does the math work then?
We can beat a team 4-1 quite a lot of times a season but it doesn't cover the fact that we prefer to play on the counter attack & willing to sacrifice possession more than we should to be solid at the back first & foremost.
As neville said yesterday; nothing special just string 5 or 6 passes together & have the intention to attack. That is all we need at least as a plan B; but we haven't really had one ever since fellaini has been injured.
The simplest things like playing with 3 CB's; tell me why we need Smalling to play as a sweeper instead of Blind to play as a link between defence & midfield like a ball playing CB does?
I am much more a United supporter than you are. I am objective, I know the team has strengths and weaknesses and I understand why those flaws exist and I know what needs to be done to reduce the flaws to the barest minimum.
You just want to throw the baby with the bath water. It’s jusr criticism all through without at least appreciating what work had been done. Compare this season to what we endured under LVG/Moyes and maybe your memory would come back to life.
To win any game, your defence must be very good. Why do people laugh at Liverpool all the time? Isn’t it because they concede as much as they score or what exactly are you talking about?
The board knew what they were getting when they signed Jose. He was signed to come and steady the ship & he’s doing a pretty job so far. I’d rather where we are than what we endured under his predecessors since SAF left. We are even picking up 2nd tier trophies while he’s rebuilding.
What more can you ask for?
De Brun saying Jose wanted Morata over Lukaku was upset over not getting Perisic and has been told to sell to get AG. I normally back Phil but this seems like kneejerk shite
It really hasn't been fine. We played well against West Ham and Cska but if we believe the rest of the games have seen 'good football' we've really got low expectations of United.
So in the end we paid more for Lukaku, and did it earlier in the window - why exactly? Pogba demanded it? Agree, doesn't make sense.
And Morata's not exactly been world beater compared to Lukaku.
We played well against Everton, Swansea, Watford, Arsenal, etc. I cannot even count. We topped our group in the UCL. I remember vividly how LVG crashed us out in the same competition. We have won 11 league games out of 16.
I am starting to think there’s a massive agenda against Jose on this thread. I am not even saying he’s perfect but to not appreciate some of the things he has done is bordering on lunacy.
I appreciate the fact that he's got our defence brilliantly organised and upskilled a number of run-of-the-mill players. He's also made us really hard to beat and restored the winning mentality.
But he's also produced some atrocious football. Are we allowed to comment on that? Or are we forbidden from saying anything negative?
Saying something negative about Mourinho, yes that would be uncharted territory on here.
You claimed with any other manager we'd currently be below Watford, just above Everton. That's lunacy.
Also I don't think there's a single poster who doesn't appreciate a good chunk of what he's done. Unless you can highlight a post that says otherwise.
Whats are Uniteds fecking standards? Appointing David Moyes as manager? Then following that up by appointing Louis van Boring as manager? Losing to Newcastle, WBA, Everton, Southampton, MK fecking Dons? I've no idea what Uniteds standards are, man? I've seen nothing but shambolic season after another. For the first fecking time in 4 seasons, we're in the title race, through to the last 16, and winning on a consistent basis.
Man United 4-0 West Ham
Swansea 0-4 Man United
Man United 2-0 Leicester
Man United 4-0 Everton
Man United 4-0 Palace
Man United 1-0 Tottenham
Man United 4-1 Newcastle
Watford 2-4 Man United
Arsenal 1-3 Man United
If that isn't United standard then I don't know what is.
I've defended Mourinho a lot this season but I was as disappointed in him yesterday as any other fan. But please stop with this "we've been poor" nonsense.
FWIW:
Man City have played 24 games and scored 64 goals, conceding 17.
Man United have played 24 games and scored 54 goals conceding 15.
But lets keep on pretending that we're nothing but a defensive team thats played well once or twice this season.
My poor chest after reading that.
As much as I'm not convinced by José I still respect enough to do a decent job at least, but making him look like The football god is reaching new levels. I guess we had better sign him on to a life time contract before we get relegated to the non league.
That's extravagant. However, looking at the last few seasons, only a handful of managers would be able to do the job needed.
As for the squad, we lack ready made players. We're either at the bottom of the spectrum - Martial, Jesse, Rashford, Lukaku, and even Pogba; or at the end with Ibra, Valencia, Young, Carrick (hasn't featured much), Mata i.e. guys who seem to be declining with time. We've no real players in their prime and in my opinion, we lack a Hazard/Sanchez type player - I guess, a world class forward who can carry a team.
City have De Bruyne
Chelsea have Hazard
Arsenal have Sanchez
Liverpool have Salah
Spurs have Eriksen
Our closest is Martial but he's just a fecking kid. There aren't many around to buy but we lack an attacker of this ilk.
He spent twice as much on Lukaku as Salah, he could have bought a player like that but his main attacking target was a big, physical striker (remember the song and dance Woodward made in the summer about the genius game he had played with Chelsea to swoop in to sign a more limited striker for a bigger fee than our previous target). He could also build a system that suits creative attacking players or coach them to be better, in the way that Pocchettino has with Eriksen, as it's difficult to see any real development in the likes of Martial and Rashford in his time here.
I think generally he's done a decent job but yesterday was just another example to me that he has fallen behind Guardiola, there was a time where it was a genuine debate over who was the better manager (I would always prefer to watch a Guardiola side but Mourinho also did amazing things) but now the comparison is so one-sided. I appreciate you backing the manager, it's what we're supposed to do as fans as much as possible, but the players you have listed there have almost annoyed me more as I notice our two main rival's best players are players he had and sold because he wasn't capable of developing them.
What you've done their is correctly identified the strengths of other teams. Namely they've got a top player right in his prime.
What about the advantages we hold though? A bigger, better squad than all but City? A bunch of players in or around their prime...
Mkhi, Mata, Jones, Smalling, Fellaini, Matic, Pogba, Lukaku (you can't describe those two at the bottom of the spectrum). A bigger budget than all but City.
Seriously think our squad is underrated by many. You can't simultaneously point to the best start in years and then claim the squad is poor.
You got me wrong. I don't, for one second, think our squad is poor. Our defense, particularly our CBs, are the best in the league - Smalling is, in my opinion, the best in the league and has shown this time and time again. Rojo, Bailly and Jones are up there. Lindelof is showing himself to be quite competent; De Gea is the best keeper on the planet and currently, Young and Valencia are playing out of their skins.
We've Pogba and Matic as two of the best CMs in the league - where we've found ourselves in a pickle is due to Herreras form (he should be in his prime) and Fellaini niggling injuries.
Up front, we've so much potential in Martial and Rashford. Lingard has been equally as good. Lukaku has dropped off a lot recently which proved costly yesterday as the aforementioned attackers weren't able to bail him out. I'm a little unsure on the rest - Mata, Mkhi, Blind, Darmian and Ibra.
Leave them alone, they don’t know better. I am sure they all miss those days of LVG’s philosophy or those days of Moyes telling us that “Man Utd are aspiring to play like Liverpool”.
We hold no advantage. A large chunk of those players in our squad are perpetually injured or unavailavle. Much of yesterday’s game has been centered on Pogba’s absence but what about Jones/Bailly? If we had them last night, the approach could have been different.
Did you just say we have a bigger budget than Man City? City were in a better shape than United just before Jose/Pep arrived in Manchester. Pep has spent more by buying a total of 17 players. Jose inherited a terrible squad and was still outspent by Pep. Jose has added only 7 players to the squad.
Where is this advantage you see? City gives Pep an open cheque to sign whoever is available. Mourinho couldn’t even get Perisic to complete his meager shopping list last summer. I am starting to think this is an attempt to troll us with this post of yours.
Please get some perspective.....
Sure agree with that. The squad has got so much going for it I find the lack of a top player in his absolute prime to be a bit minor. Especially when we have the resources to get that player.
Anything less than second with a cup final appearance is a bit of a let down to me. Such are our resources. Can you imagine Fergie with this budget and squad size.
If Madrid eliminate PSG, what are the chances they go for Jose in the summer? Seems very likely given the rumors the past month. Can anyone really see Jose leaving us after the season?
Firstly I have to remind myself of your earlier comment that any other manager would have us below Watford. With that out of the way let's move on.
No I didn't say we have a bigger budget than City. In fact I said the exact opposite.
I'm not surprised you don't think our squad has any advantages over Arsenal or Chelsea as you believe without Mourinho we're only a couple of points better than Everton.
Emery is definitely a goner if PSG get knocked out in the round of 16 again.
Perhaps they make a run for Jose if those contract extension talks stall.
To be fair we've spent a large proportion of the budget on two players and when you take into consideration the inflated prices, I don't think we've spent... wisely? I was never really sure about buying a striker - hard to say, was Mourinho willing to put his job on the line by entrusting either Martial or Rashford with the reigns of a forward? I don't think so. But did we really need a CF over a winger or two? Mkhi seems to have ended being a fail, Mata is declining and that's hurting us a lot. We still need investment and I'd (as many other supporters) like us to add a quality attacker to this team. In an ideal scenario, you'd want a world class forward similar to those I named above. However, as we've all realised, we'd probably step up a level with a right winger who likes to play on the right!
Those were my thoughts exactly. PSG would throw ridiculous money at Jose and they've never had a World Class manager. Add to that an unlimited transfer budget and I can really see Jose considering it.
You've hit the nail on the head. By some comments, you'd think that despite all the investment we should be hanging around the 6th position.
Thanks to Moyes, the expectations of fans have reached an all time low. We've become the "at least" club now. And it doesn't help when José tries to radicalise fans with this useless siege, us against the world, victim complex mentality. Was it not a few weeks ago, he came out with "at least, we are better off than 18 other clubs", no joke Sherlock after comfortably outspending 18 other clubs.
It amazes me how at the start of each season, the same people said we had a solid squad to at least challenge for the title at the start are now saying that we are overachieving by being 11+1 points behind City after 16 games. I still cringe at that poster that said after the wobble against Stoke that after a third summer window is when José should be expected to start winning games like these.
I am just going to blame it all on Moyes
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