Jose Gimenez

[Mike09]

That's the problem. It is like saying we should sign Messi or Tadic. It doesn't compute. There is no point on putting them in the same sentence.

Gimenez is more experienced in top level than Van Dijk.

I have no idea if he can. I also have no idea if Van Dijk can step up and jump 5 levels above, because that is the level we want from our main CB. Gimenez has shown that he can play on that level, Van Dijk hasn't even hinted on that.

You made it look like ridiculous but what I'm saying is signing top defender for example Bonucci, if it sounds unrealistic then sign van Dijk which is more realistic even though it's below level of Bonucci. There are more benefits i can see from van Dijk over Gimenez.
Surely you can't say Bonucci is like Messi's level of defender. Try to pick someone more sense than Messi. van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now and Tadic isn't. Messi is one of the best player in the world and history while Bonucci isn't.

Gimenez is more experience in top level and that's why I put +1 in my post above as his benefit but there is negative sign as he's been playing in a top level with world class player like Godin.

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

 

[antohan]

He has the talent but such a wasteful if not being polished properly. He hasn't prove himself to show that he's ready to step up!! We broke the transfer fee on Pogba and did we solve the midfield problem? No!! Carrick can't play every single week and can't stay fit due to his age. Every young players need a support from player with leadership mentality. We can't solve our current problem by signingz first if he doesn't have the support from that "type of player".
Juventus won't be able to solve their midfield problem if they signed Pogba first without having a leadership in midfield like Pirlo.

Again, your ignorance of the guy shines through. You know how he got his first cap?

Uruguay were out of the qualifying spots for 2014 with Godin and Lugano suspended. He had just moved to Atlético and had been adorning the bench for three months without getting a single game. A 35yo retired defender was called up to start alongside him against Colombia, who were on fire and had scored 4 against our regular backline at home.

Plenty of excuses ready for him. People complained we would ruin the chap putting him under such pressure and exposing him to the damage of the inevitable outcome (loss and no WC).

2-0, and MotM as he kept Falcao in his pocket all game (and James, and Jackson, etc). It was fecking incredible.

Nobody does that, it's unique, it simply doesn't happen unless you are special.

I said earlier he is an improvement but not the type of defender we are needing (i.e. if we sign him we still need to sign another), but I'm not having the way you are completely talking out of your arse about him.

 

[DWelbz19]

That's a fair point.

However found it a bit ironic that you mentioned Gimenez losing his place to Savic (which looks to come more because of his injury and problems with Simeone rather than him being worse than Savic) in the same sentence you mentioned Alder as a player we need to sign, considering that Alder couldn't even get in the bench of the team which has Gimenez and Savic.

I was following this conversation thinking the same

I didn't say that. You quoted somebody else saying that. I just tagged in to respond about Alderwiereld.

 

[Mike09]

You are really overrating van Dijk mate, he's decent but nothing more, I am not even massively pro Gimenez, I just don't see any huge upside to van Dijk over him. There's zero to prove he has the capacity to step up, Gimenez stepped up at a top club and forced a quality CB into moving in order to get a starting spot.

The PL proven part is irrelevant, there is no less risk as we've seen by the failures of other Southampton players to thrive outside of their releative comfort zone.

I said Gimenez is more athletic because he is, athleticism isn't about height and heading, it's about mobility and agility on the ground. As far as him being built like a bull, he is, I never said van Dijk wasn't a powerful athlete, I simply stated that Gimenez is as well.

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

Yeah but we already have Bailly who are mobile and quick but weak in heading or in the air. Can you see how many headers we are going to lose if we have both Bailly and Gimenez? I'm not even convinced if we should rely on such a young defenders when our main problem is that we don't have a leader in defense

 

[devilish]

Again, your ignorance of the guy shines through. You know how he got his first cap?

Uruguay were out of the qualifying spots for 2014 with Godin and Lugano suspended. He had just moved to Atlético and had been adorning the bench for three months without getting a single game. A 35yo retired defender was called up to start alongside him against Colombia, who were on fire and had scored 4 against our regular backline at home.

Plenty of excuses ready for him. People complained we would ruin the chap putting him under such pressure and exposing him to the damage of the inevitable outcome (loss and no WC).

2-0, and MotM as he kept Falcao in his pocket all game (and James, and Jackson, etc). It was fecking incredible.

Nobody does that, it's unique, it simply doesn't happen unless you are special.

I said earlier he is an improvement but not the type of defender we are needing (i.e. if we sign him we still need to sign another), but I'm not having the way you are completely talking out of your arse about him.

Oh shut up. Godin was constantly at his back, shouting abuses at him and coaching him all the way. He stood near him when his wife was ill and made him run after chickens at one point to increase his pace. He even tried to tell him not to fight Clubber Lang at one point.

 

[Revan]

You made it look like ridiculous but what I'm saying is signing top defender for example Bonucci, if it sounds unrealistic then sign van Dijk which is more realistic even though it's below level of Bonucci. There are more benefits i can see from van Dijk over Gimenez.
Surely you can't say Bonucci is like Messi's level of defender. Try to pick someone more sense than Messi. van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now and Tadic isn't. Messi is one of the best player in the world and history while Bonucci isn't.

Gimenez is more experience in top level and that's why I put +1 in my post above as his benefit but there is negative sign as he's been playing in a top level with world class player like Godin.

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

I think that Bonucci (together with Godin) is the best CB in the world (Ramos is probably better than both of them if you weight the amount of goals he scores, but as a defender he isn't), similar to how Messi (together with Ronaldo) is the best attacker in the world, and thus the comparison.

Van Dijk with Tadic is probably not the best comparison, so lets make it Van Dijk with Mane.

 

[Mike09]

Again, your ignorance of the guy shines through. You know how he got his first cap?

Uruguay were out of the qualifying spots for 2014 with Godin and Lugano suspended. He had just moved to Atlético and had been adorning the bench for three months without getting a single game. A 35yo retired defender was called up to start alongside him against Colombia, who were on fire and had scored 4 against our regular backline at home.

Plenty of excuses ready for him. People complained we would ruin the chap putting him under such pressure and exposing him to the damage of the inevitable outcome (loss and no WC).

2-0, and MotM as he kept Falcao in his pocket all game (and James, and Jackson, etc). It was fecking incredible.

Nobody does that, it's unique, it simply doesn't happen unless you are special.

I said earlier he is an improvement but not the type of defender we are needing (i.e. if we sign him we still need to sign another), but I'm not having the way you are completely talking out of your arse about him.

Yea Evans have massively stepped up when he played with Northern Ireland. I remember a few years ago when he was still at United he played like a beast against Portugal and Ronaldo. I think what we want is obviously not just one game here.

Have I said something bad about him? I even admitted he has the talent to be great defender and a good leader but I have said it before that we don't need him and i can see that signing players like Bonucci or more realistic one van Dijk will have more benefits or less risky to solve our problems.

 

[Mike09]

I think that Bonucci (together with Godin) is the best CB in the world (Ramos is probably better than both of them if you weight the amount of goals he scores, but as a defender he isn't), similar to how Messi (together with Ronaldo) is the best attacker in the world, and thus the comparison.

Van Dijk with Tadic is probably not the best comparison, so lets make it Van Dijk with Mane.

When you look at Vidic, Stam, Rio, Maldini, Sol Campbell, Nesta, Cannavaro. You will know why I found it silly that you used Messi.

 

[Devil may care]

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

Yeah but we already have Bailly who are mobile and quick but weak in heading or in the air. Can you see how many headers we are going to lose if we have both Bailly and Gimenez? I'm not even convinced if we should rely on such a young defenders when our main problem is that we don't have a leader in defense

The crux of the problem here for me is you have van Dijk down as some kind of proven leader, which he isn't, he's a CB for a mid table team that shared the defensive responsibility with Fonte most of the time. Conversely Gimenez has played and thrived at a much higher level, the PL part isn't relevant.

Heading and leadership are two different things, if you just want someone who is good at heading but not better than Gimenez at anything else, then might as well just stick with Smalling, he's great in the air.

 

[Mike09]

The crux of the problem here for me is you have van Dijk down as some kind of proven leader, which he isn't, he's a CB for a mid table team that shared the defensive responsibility with Fonte most of the time. Conversely Gimenez has played and thrived at a much higher level, the PL part isn't relevant.

Heading and leadership are two different things, if you just want someone who is good at heading but not better than Gimenez at anything else, then might as well just stick with Smalling, he's great in the air.

Do i need to say this again?

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

But van Dijk is better than Smalling at the moment. And van Dijk isn't just about good in heading ability.

 

[izec]

If Mou wants him, just buy him. There are not a lot good and talented defenders on the market anyway.

 

[Devil may care]

Do i need to say this again?

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

But van Dijk is better than Smalling at the moment. And van Dijk isn't just about good in heading ability.

Yes, you keep saying it and I keep saying you're wrong and you just ignore the reasons why you are wrong, like the fact the PL isn't anything special so him having played here isn't a gauge of his quality, and him sharing the defensive responsbilities in leading a mid table team with Fonte means jackshit when it comes to wether he has any leadership qualities, just look at autohan's post where he tells you how Gimenez showed real leadership in a high pressure situation, that is someone that has actually shown they can step up, van Dijk hasn't.

 

[Revan]

Do i need to say this again?

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

But van Dijk is better than Smalling at the moment. And van Dijk isn't just about good in heading ability.

My point is that even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least Gimenez has adapted in UCL while Van Dijk hasn't. At least Gimenez has shown the talent to be a great CB while Van Dijk hasn't. And Gimenez last season was one of the best CBs in the world (not just one of the best young CBs) somethink that Van Dijk likely won't ever achieve. That's how I see Gimenez being a much better signing than Van Dijk.

By the way, has Van Dijk shown to be the leader of a midtable team yet? His partner is the captain of the team, and only last year was quite better than him. Has Van Dijk shown to be that good (for a long period of time) without Fonte in the first place?

 

[Celestiale]

The same guy whom Atletico sold because he couldn't get a place on his team over Gimenez and Savic?

Nah you got your facts wrong. He couldn't get a spot over Godin and Miranda who were on another level back then, mainly more experienced.

 

[United Pro]

My points were even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least van Dijk has adapted in PL while Gimenez hasn't. At least van Dijk had experienced to lead his defense while Gimenez has always been relying on Godin. And van Dijk is one of the best centre back in PL right now. That's how I see van Dijk to be less risky signing than Gimenez.

Yeah but we already have Bailly who are mobile and quick but weak in heading or in the air. Can you see how many headers we are going to lose if we have both Bailly and Gimenez? I'm not even convinced if we should rely on such a young defenders when our main problem is that we don't have a leader in defense

You mention being able to step up, but surely then you'd have to factor in the fact that Gimenez currently plays for a team that is better than United (so technically he'd be stepping down), while Van Dijk has never played at a club even close to the size of us. Also, in terms of adapting to the PL, Atletico and perhaps Real are probably the only clubs in Spain that wouldn't struggle with the pace and power of the PL and given Gimenez's play style, there shouldn't be much to worry about in terms of adapting to the league.
You say Van Dijk has experience leading his defence, but technically Fonte was the captain and mainstay of the defence for the majority of his time at Southampton and only recently has he captained lead the defence for a few game (majority after Fonte kicked up a fuss to leave a few months ago).
On the point about height and aerial ability, Van Dijk is definitely better in the air. Though, we should also consider the fact that United last season had the joint best defensive record with 5ft11 Blind playing pretty much every game (of course the lack of conceding was in part due to LVG's formation), perhaps there isn't such a strong correlation between losing headers and conceding goals. But it's not like Gimenez is poor in the air as he's got a good leap, along with being the same size as say Alderweireld.

 

[Mike09]

My point is that even though there are doubt wether if both players can step up or no but at least Gimenez has adapted in UCL while Van Dijk hasn't. At least Gimenez has shown the talent to be a great CB while Van Dijk hasn't. And Gimenez last season was one of the best CBs in the world (not just one of the best young CBs) somethink that Van Dijk likely won't ever achieve. That's how I see Gimenez being a much better signing than Van Dijk.

By the way, has Van Dijk shown to be the leader of a midtable team yet? His partner is the captain of the team, and only last year was quite better than him. Has Van Dijk shown to be that good (for a long period of time) without Fonte in the first place?

I have bolded the quote and you are still have difficulty to understand it.

 

[Mike09]

I didn't mention the U20 WC there. Full senior World Cup in 2014, started against England's finest and they didn't present him much of a problem.

You are overrating PL experience no end. John Stones has plenty of it, so did Titus Bramble.

Again, play alongside Godin. Evans looked mad when he played with Rio against Real by the way. Smalling were very good when he played with Vidic against City.

PL proven not just experience. Stones was proven to be poor defender last season. Different comparison of how people view van Dijk and Stones. One is proven to be one of the best in PL at the moment and the other one was proven to be poor defender.

 

[Clas Sified]

The number plus are just the amount of positives or benefits. I could make it into dot points instead though. So i don't know how they can be considered as FIFA-like number systems.

FIFA-like number systems as in you're just summarising the very basic benefits and negatives of each respective player with a simplified system that frankly, ignores all other features of said player.

You simply can't judge the pros and cons of a player using such a simple metric.

 

[United Pro]

Nah you got your facts wrong. He couldn't get a spot over Godin and Miranda who were on another level back then, mainly more experienced.

Yes, I was about to say. Alderweireld was loaned out as he couldn't displace Godin and Miranda (who were at the time easily the best defensive partnership). But, it should be noted that Atletico preferred to keep Gimenez rather than Alderweireld that season and the season after where Gimenez played first team after Atletico sold Alderweireld (eventhough he was solid during his loan spell at Southampton) and loaned out Miranda.

 

[Mike09]

You mention being able to step up, but surely then you'd have to factor in the fact that Gimenez currently plays for a team that is better than United (so technically he'd be stepping down), while Van Dijk has never played at a club even close to the size of us. Also, in terms of adapting to the PL, Atletico and perhaps Real are probably the only clubs in Spain that wouldn't struggle with the pace and power of the PL and given Gimenez's play style, there shouldn't be much to worry about in terms of adapting to the league.
You say Van Dijk has experience leading his defence, but technically Fonte was the captain and mainstay of the defence for the majority of his time at Southampton and only recently has he captained lead the defence for a few game (majority after Fonte kicked up a fuss to leave a few months ago).
On the point about height and aerial ability, Van Dijk is definitely better in the air. Though, we should also consider the fact that United last season had the joint best defensive record with 5ft11 Blind playing pretty much every game (of course the lack of conceding was in part due to LVG's formation), perhaps there isn't such a strong correlation between losing headers and conceding goals. But it's not like Gimenez is poor in the air as he's got a good leap, along with being the same size as say Alderweireld.

I have made my points of numbers of benefits that van Dijk had over Gimenez and I don't think I need to repeat them again.

 

[Celestiale]

You mention being able to step up, but surely then you'd have to factor in the fact that Gimenez currently plays for a team that is better than United (so technically he'd be stepping down), while Van Dijk has never played at a club even close to the size of us. Also, in terms of adapting to the PL, Atletico and perhaps Real are probably the only clubs in Spain that wouldn't struggle with the pace and power of the PL and given Gimenez's play style, there shouldn't be much to worry about in terms of adapting to the league.
.

They are not better playerwise. Apart from Godin not even in the defense. Technically he wouldn't be stepping down. And it matters more against whom you play, then in what team you are playing in. And the PD is a lot slower then the PL in general. Just look at Otamendi. La Liga fans screamed "BEST DEFENDER IN THE WORLD" all around, and he doesn't get a foot down at City. Of course it can work out, as Bailly shows, but even he still clearly has to adapt to the pace, and is everything else then a settled defender, that he was in La Liga. Gimenez would definitely be a risk, that much should be clear. I'd definitely not pay crazy money for him. Rather wait a year and get him for free, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Revan]

Nah you got your facts wrong. He couldn't get a spot over Godin and Miranda who were on another level back then, mainly more experienced.

Alder left on loan in the summer, and Gimenez got immediately a place in the starting eleven forcing Miranda to leave. The following summer, Atletico brought Alder back and immediately sold it to Spurs.

 

[Mike09]

FIFA-like number systems as in you're just summarising the very basic benefits and negatives of each respective player with a simplified system that frankly, ignores all other features of said player.

You simply can't judge the pros and cons of a player using such a simple metric.

I could go longer if i want about features but my point wasn't about saying who's the better defender but which one that we need more at the moment.

 

[Cassidy]

They are not better playerwise. Apart from Godin not even in the defense. Technically he wouldn't be stepping down. And it matters more against whom you play, then in what team you are playing in. And the PD is a lot slower then the PL in general. Just look at Otamendi. La Liga fans screamed "BEST DEFENDER IN THE WORLD" all around, and he doesn't get a foot down at City. Of course it can work out, as Bailly shows, but even he still clearly has to adapt to the pace, and is everything else then a settled defender, that he was in La Liga. Gimenez would definitely be a risk, that much should be clear. I'd definitely not pay crazy money for him. Rather wait a year and get him for free, nothing wrong with that.

He wouldn't cost crazy money tbh, which is why I would rather we got him than spend £60m on Van Dijk who I believe is overrated anyway.

 

[Clas Sified]

I could go longer if i want about features but my point wasn't about saying who's the better defender but which one that we need more at the moment.

Yep absolutely I understand that, but I'm saying that just like you can't judge who's a better player using such a simple system, you also can't judge who we need more at the moment using said system because it simply doesn't account for so many different variables.

 

[Mike09]

Yep absolutely I understand that, but I'm saying that just like you can't judge who's a better player using such a simple system, you also can't judge who we need more at the moment using said system because it simply doesn't account for so many different variables.

I never said van Dijk is better than Gimenez. But from those benefits that van Dijk had, I think he's what we need more thus less risky signing than Gimenez.

 

[Clas Sified]

I never said van Dijk is better than Gimenez. But from those benefits that van Dijk had, I think he's what we need more thus less risky signing than Gimenez.

Fair enough, I guess that's just where opinions differ.

However, do you think that Van Dijk is good enough to take that next step to start for a Champions League challenging team? Because ideally, that's where we want to be sooner rather than later.

 

[Mike09]

Fair enough, I guess that's just where opinions differ.

However, do you think that Van Dijk is good enough to take that next step to start for a Champions League challenging team? Because ideally, that's where we want to be sooner rather than later.

Like I have already mentioned before both players have doubts that they can step up to lead the team.

But like I have mentioned before from these benefits makes me think van Dijk is a better solution for what we need right now than Gimenez.

Good and better in the air means he's covering Bailly and Rojo weakness.
Good and better with the ball means he's covering Smalling's weakness.
Proven in PL and one of the best centre back in PL right now means he has adapted in PL style compared to Gimenez who never play in PL and rely on Godin.
Gimenez is still young means he tends to make errors more.

 

[devilish]

Fair enough, I guess that's just where opinions differ.

However, do you think that Van Dijk is good enough to take that next step to start for a Champions League challenging team? Because ideally, that's where we want to be sooner rather than later.

Why not? Liverpool has a team filled with Southampton players and we have/had Shaw and Schneiderlin. That must have worked greatly for both of us

 

[Celestiale]

He wouldn't cost crazy money tbh, which is why I would rather we got him than spend £60m on Van Dijk who I believe is overrated anyway.

60m for Van Dijk would be bonkers, no question! Where do you get this valuation from?
I wouldn't pay any money for Gimenez, at least as long as he is not a starter. Not getting past Savic isn't particularly a good reference. There are enough better defenders out there on the market. Glik, Manolas, Sokratis for starters, without even thinking.

 

[Clas Sified]

Like I have already mentioned before both players have doubts that they can step up to lead the team.

But like I have mentioned before from these benefits makes me think van Dijk is a better solution for what we need right now than Gimenez.

Good and better in the air means he's covering Bailly and Rojo weakness.
Good and better with the ball means he's covering Smalling's weakness.
Proven in PL and one of the best centre back in PL right now means he has adapted in PL style compared to Gimenez who never play in PL and rely on Godin.
Gimenez is still young means he tends to make errors more.

But signing a player for just the 'right now' is surely too short-sighted? Unless it's a cheap, stop-gap signing, a new player should first be assessed for both his short-term and his long-term value for the club.

No point signing a player that'll have to be replaced in a year or two, might as well sign a player that has the potential to start for us in a CL final in a few seasons' time.

 

[giorno]

In 2006-2007 Juventus lost most of its first team including Thuram, Ibrahimovic, Mutu, Vieira, Cannavaro and Emerson. Most arrivals were Juventus homegrown talent players like De Ceglie, and Giovinco + other players who were on loan (ex Tudor, Palladino and Legrottaglie). This trend became more evident in 2007-2008 (Criscito, Molinaro, Nocerino etc) all of which were partly sold years before only to be rebought back (comproprieta)

Mike said that we don’t need to replace Jones with a young player because we’ve got Tzuanebe. He also said that Juventus wouldn’t have signed Pogba before securing Pirlo, which we both know is bonkers. I told him that Juventus rarely take a kid from the youth academy and throw him to the deep end. Most kids are sent on loan, often for years, before being recalled. Other kids are used in a sort of swap + money deal for better players (Ex Bonucci) or to make a quick buck (Immobile)

Oh yeah sorry. Yeah you're right about that then

 

[Robertd0803]

60m for Van Dijk would be bonkers, no question! Where do you get this valuation from?
I wouldn't pay any money for Gimenez, at least as long as he is not a starter. Not getting past Savic isn't particularly a good reference. There are enough better defenders out there on the market. Glik, Manolas, Sokratis for starters, without even thinking.

There were rumours floating around that Southampton put a stupidly high price tag on Van Dijk to ward off interest that was in the 40 million plus range.

 

[Celestiale]

There were rumours floating around that Southampton put a stupidly high price tag on Van Dijk to ward off interest that was in the 40 million plus range.

Well, i'd go 30m, but not higher. Our defenders are not that bad, how people are trying to make them. Our CB is arguably better then the one of Barca, Dortmund or AS Roma, worlds better then Sevilla, just to name a few good teams. We are fine with our CBs. If we can get a good one (e.g. van Dijk) for a reasonable price, or a (potentially) world class one, then we should take the punt. But not just buying one for the sake of it, we've made that mistake far too often lately. Didn't bring us anywhere apart from wasting a lot of money.

 

[giorno]

Your CBs really aren't better than barcelona's or roma's. That said, Mou has got them doing well enough. No point spending big in the position unless there's a chance to sign someone like Bonucci

De Vrij would be the CB you should sign if he weren't a crock

 

[Revan]

Well, i'd go 30m, but not higher. Our defenders are not that bad, how people are trying to make them. Our CB is arguably better then the one of Barca, Dortmund or AS Roma, worlds better then Sevilla, just to name a few good teams. We are fine with our CBs. If we can get a good one (e.g. van Dijk) for a reasonable price, or a (potentially) world class one, then we should take the punt. But not just buying one for the sake of it, we've made that mistake far too often lately. Didn't bring us anywhere apart from wasting a lot of money.

None of our defenders are better than Pique and Umtiti, and it is very hard to argue that they are better than Manolas and Sokratis.

van Dijk isn't better than what we have.

 

[United Pro]

Well, i'd go 30m, but not higher. Our defenders are not that bad, how people are trying to make them. Our CB is arguably better then the one of Barca, Dortmund or AS Roma, worlds better then Sevilla, just to name a few good teams. We are fine with our CBs. If we can get a good one (e.g. van Dijk) for a reasonable price, or a (potentially) world class one, then we should take the punt. But not just buying one for the sake of it, we've made that mistake far too often lately. Didn't bring us anywhere apart from wasting a lot of money.

Article released 2 days ago: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...mamadou-sakho-chelsea-bound-virgil-van-dijks/
It says Southampton want more than what City payed for Stones.

 

[Cassidy]

60m for Van Dijk would be bonkers, no question! Where do you get this valuation from?
I wouldn't pay any money for Gimenez, at least as long as he is not a starter. Not getting past Savic isn't particularly a good reference. There are enough better defenders out there on the market. Glik, Manolas, Sokratis for starters, without even thinking.

Thats not based on his ability more on falling out with the manager and injuries. We have seen how good he can play in the side. In any case I think he can be got for around £25-30m given he isn't a starter and wants to leave which would be good for someone with his potential. The only issue I have is that we really need a solid player right now rather than potential so he is a risk.

I personally think he is better than Sokratis tbh

£60m is the price being banded about for Van Dijk since January, in any case I doubt he will cost less than £50m

 

[Revan]

Your CBs really aren't better than barcelona's or roma's. That said, Mou has got them doing well enough. No point spending big in the position unless there's a chance to sign someone like Bonucci

De Vrij would be the CB you should sign if he weren't a crock

I think that we really need a CB, but we need an attacker much more, and we definitely need an another CM (if not two). I would like to see Shaw getting a chance next season in LB, so wouldn't like to see us spending much money there.

I think that we definitely have enough money to go for these 3-4 signings, with the attacker costing a fortune. Something like Griezmann, Fabinho, Gimenez and maybe an another player is very doable, financial wise. We already got some money from Schneiderlin and Depay, then the wage bill will be reduced with Rooney and Bastian leaving, if we get a CB we can expect Smalling/Jones to leave and Fellaini might leave if we sign more than a CM so there is some money there we can recuperate in addition to wages (near 200k/week for Fellaini and Smalling/Jones combined).

 

[El-Manos]

Are we being linked to him since this thread seems to be very active suddenly?