Jose Gimenez

[DomesticTadpole]

Giminez is a good player and would suit mourinho. He's not a ball playing cb but our coach in mourinho...

This obsession with a ball playing cb. As you say our manager is Jose. He wants CB's will defend not do the light fandango down the field. He expects other people to bring the attacking threat.

 

[jesperjaap]

I didnt mean to reduce my argument to the notion that all our defenders are vidic reincarnate. No two players are exactly the same after all. My intention to compare our defenders to Vidic was motivated by the fact that we dont have a player who can really do the 'Ferdinand role' any justice at the highest level. I do agree with your assessment of Bailly though, he is different from both.

But i'd still like to reaffirm that even though Bailly can play the ball out he is no Hummels or Bonnucci when it comes to passing or building up an attack . Even when we have the ball i think its Rojo or Blind that take more responsibility for building from the back. In fact it would be unfair to expect that given that he isnt the finished article yet, hes still learning his trade and is only 23. Who knows , maybe Bailly will be as good as Rio in a few years. But he definitely isnt there yet and thats why we need to sign someone who can play that role right now, an experienced world class player, a calming influence.

But like i said before it also depends on what kind of team Jose is planning to build. If he wants primarily a counter attacking team then we dont necessarily need a Rio sort of CB.

Yes all good points. I am probably a bit old fashioned. I hate all this false number 9, sweeper keeper, ball playing centre backs etc etc. Yes the game has changed in terms of athleticism but it does seem to me people over play roles now due to the amazing barcelona side Guardiola had. It isnt really that new, look at the young LVG Ajax side or the great Milan side of the 90s they all had similar high pressing players, people seem to think Guardiola has reinvented football, utter nonsense to me.
Although technical players etc is important at the end of the day the most important role for a keeper is to save the ball, defenders to defend etc etc. Like you say Blind is decent at buildign the ball from the back but that isnt really that much help when his defending of crosses, flick ons, strength and pace have all been exploited. Out of interest, and this is out of interest not a debate, who woul dyou like us to sign at centre back realistcally as there arent many names for me personally at the moment

 

[Vanya]

Yes all good points. I am probably a bit old fashioned. I hate all this false number 9, sweeper keeper, ball playing centre backs etc etc. Yes the game has changed in terms of athleticism but it does seem to me people over play roles now due to the amazing barcelona side Guardiola had. It isnt really that new, look at the young LVG Ajax side or the great Milan side of the 90s they all had similar high pressing players, people seem to think Guardiola has reinvented football, utter nonsense to me.
Although technical players etc is important at the end of the day the most important role for a keeper is to save the ball, defenders to defend etc etc. Like you say Blind is decent at buildign the ball from the back but that isnt really that much help when his defending of crosses, flick ons, strength and pace have all been exploited. Out of interest, and this is out of interest not a debate, who woul dyou like us to sign at centre back realistcally as there arent many names for me personally at the moment

I agree, the primary job of a defender should be to excel at defending. Passing the ball is secondary. Although Jose's best CB pairing of Lucio and Samuel were both good at playing from the back (esp Lucio), but more than that, both were strong physically , aerially and at marking, which as you rightly mentioned is the most important.

In my opinion we already have those qualities in Bailly and Rojo. I dont post a lot as you can see from my post count but ive always been a silent supporter of Rojo as a CB mainly because he always showed that he could sense danger early (even though he at times dealt with it rashly) and most of all showed character/balls when he played that position (part of me wishes I had mentioned it earlier on some thread only so that I could say I told you so ).

We shouldn't disrupt this pairing but should add to it by buying a capable defender who is not scared of passing the ball or driving forward with the ball and play all three at the back - the only player who fits the bill for me (with my very limited knowledge) is Van Djik. This is just my personal opinion and obviously Jose will do something completely different. But this is what I would ideally want under the circumstances where experienced and world class players like Bonucci/Chiellini/ Boateng/Ramos/Godin are impossible to get.

 

[jesperjaap]

I agree, the primary job of a defender should be to excel at defending. Passing the ball is secondary. Although Jose's best CB pairing of Lucio and Samuel were both good at playing from the back (esp Lucio), but more than that, both were strong physically , aerially and at marking, which as you rightly mentioned is the most important.

In my opinion we already have those qualities in Bailly and Rojo. I dont post a lot as you can see from my post count but ive always been a silent supporter of Rojo as a CB mainly because he always showed that he could sense danger early (even though he at times dealt with it rashly) and most of all showed character/balls when he played that position (part of me wishes I had mentioned it earlier on some thread only so that I could say I told you so ).

We shouldn't disrupt this pairing but should add to it by buying a capable defender who is not scared of passing the ball or driving forward with the ball and play all three at the back - the only player who fits the bill for me (with my very limited knowledge) is Van Djik. This is just my personal opinion and obviously Jose will do something completely different. But this is what I would ideally want under the circumstances where experienced and world class players like Bonucci/Chiellini/ Boateng/Ramos/Godin are impossible to get.

Well Rojo has been the surprise of the season last year for me as preceeding it as a left back he was truly awful for us. He showed true SOuth AMerican grit in his attitude battling the opposition, the only thing concerned me was he almost seemed to playing above himself and defending desperately and the wrong side of the line at times. Just my personaly opinion but I see him as "The" back up centre back next season ahead of the young talent of Tuanzabe and Mensah and the experience of Blind (who just isnt a centre back for me, but is useful with the number of positions he can play).

Again I am not personally convinced by Djik, I think he is a good defender and certainly way above the level of the likes of Keane and fair enough probably would be the starter alongside Bailly but I see him like his old partner Fonte, a good centre back that seems to be over rated and is a star defender for the likes of Celtic and SOuthampton....big fish in a small pond perhaps? The prices mentioned even in todays market put me right off though when he seems to be the same price as the likes of Marquinhos, Varane and the like when even if they are unobtainable.....he just isnt in that class for me.

PS Lucas, what a player he was