I believe that Manolas is better than Smalling and Jones.
Jose Gimenez
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I believe that Manolas is better than Smalling and Jones.
Of course he is, but he's not going to make much of a difference. You defence is already good as it is, why spend upwards of £35M for a CB? You have other positions of need.
You can think about the CB after you've fixed the LB, CM and second goalscorer roles
You have to factor in that 2 of our CB's can't stay fit and that the one who is the senior CB shits the bed under pressure.
I say Bailly is better overall Smalling is better in defending then Pique, not on the ball obviously. Bailly, Rojo and Smalling are all less prone to error and less erratic then Umtiti. I wouldn't change our defense for Pique and Umtiti, never.
Our defenders are not better then Manolas and Sokratis, but our central defense is better then the ones of Roma or Dortmund, because Bartra and Fazio are a lot worse then our second CB (and 3rd and 4th). Van Dijk is hard to judge, he definitely looks the deal at Southampton, hard to tell if he could replicate it here.
Oke, that's bonkers.
Yeah, it's very odd. I always rated him (maybe not as high as a few others in here), and given that Savic is a horrendous defender, it feels strangely odd that Gimenez doesn't make the first 11. I agree with you fully, and that's the reason i don't really want him at our team, for now at least. He should first get his starting position back, and his form, get solid. If we have to pay 10-20m more for him then, so be it.
Sokratis is a rock solid defender with hardly any offdays or dips in form, i'd definitely take him right now.
We certainly can’t spend some 100m in defence, that’s for sure. However I do think that we need a new CB. Bailly has great potential but he needs someone with some brains alongside him. That won’t come from Jones and Smalling who are the typical English old fashioned CBs (think of Terry Butcher) or Rojo who is the epitome of the word average (he’s average in everything he does). Even those who still believe that Smalling can one day become the new Terry, had lost hope in Jones being able to string 10 games in a row without breaking in pieces, so we need at least Jones replacement.
In my opinion we should allow Darmian, Rojo and Jones to leave and we should bring in a RB, CB and a LB. If Bonucci is available on a decent fee and he’s available then we might consider letting Smalling go too. I am thinking something like this
RB: Valencia, Semedo
LB: Shaw, Tierney
CB: Gimenez, Bonucci/Smalling, Bailly and some young dude
Would be great, especially since we would still have Blind to do the O’Shea job.
35m isn't that much for EPL standards. For example Shitty were stupid enough to spend 50m on Bambi on Ice just because he is English. I bet if they get Baresi out of retirement he'll be able to defend better then him
Jones is an excellent defender and plenty good enough to be one of the best in the Premier League. I truly believe that. His only issue is fitness. With a run in the team he has always been outstanding and brings a spirit and character that the team badly needs.
I never ascribe to the knee jerkery that accompanies one mistake. You have to take a more holistic view.
The concern over Jones has, and always will be, his fitness record. If he had stayed fit all this season then I would have relied on him. But he got injured just when it seemed he had put that behind him. And when he returns from injury he's inevitably a little rusty and comes into a new, 3 at the back system.
Bottom line, we do need another center half, but I hope Jones and Bailly are left to battle it out for the second spot. Competition is healthy.
I never ascribe to the knee jerkery that accompanies one mistake. You have to take a more holistic view.
The concern over Jones has, and always will be, his fitness record. If he had stayed fit all this season then I would have relied on him. But he got injured just when it seemed he had put that behind him. And when he returns from injury he's inevitably a little rusty and comes into a new, 3 at the back system.
Bottom line, we do need another center half, but I hope Jones and Bailly are left to battle it out for the second spot. Competition is healthy.
Even if we assume that Jones is as good as you say (I strongly disagree with), fitness is a very big problem. He can be Beckenbauer for all I care, if he isn't fit and so cannot play. His fitness record is very similar to that of Anderson, and he has played more than 25 matches for us only in two seasons (with this being his sixth season here). There comes the time when 'just an another chance' becomes a chance too many.
Er...that is his biggest issue.
Yup, his only and his biggest. Hence the rest of my post where I said we needed to sign someone......
Its certainly not his only issue, but it is his biggest.
Yes, player analysis is always subjective; so I can readily accept your differing opinion. However, just to reiterate....I did say that we should not rely on him as first choice due to the fitness concerns - despite my perceptions over his quality.
His only major flaw. The other issues are relatively minor. In terms of quality, he is as good as anyone in the league, and better than any cb in our squad currently. Bailly has the potential to surpass him.
I disagree but this isn't the thread
Sorry. Buy Gimenez.
This thread has kind of lost its way, but my two cents are as follows -
One has to ask the question what type of defender does Mourinho want and what does the team need (and also analyze what the team lacks)
Firstly, Jones, Bailly, Smalling and Rojo are still not proven CBs at the highest/CL level and display proclivity for rash challenges
Most of them esp Jones are unreliable in terms of injuries and are in and out of the side
None of the CBs (except Bailly and Rojo on some occasions) can consistently pass the ball well from deep positions
To put it simplistically, the problem is we have too many pretenders for the title of the new Vidic but we dont have a Ferdinand
Therefore in my mind its clear we need a player who is can be a permanent fixture - a calm head, experienced and has the ability to pass the ball reasonably well. Gimenez is not that player. Hes young and rash and his passing ability is sub par. Its very tempting to buy a promising player in a cut price deal. But why buy a player who we dont really need unless we sell one of our defenders.
ideally bonucci, alderweireld or alternatively van djik, or koulibaly are the way to go.
One has to ask the question what type of defender does Mourinho want and what does the team need (and also analyze what the team lacks)
Firstly, Jones, Bailly, Smalling and Rojo are still not proven CBs at the highest/CL level and display proclivity for rash challenges
Most of them esp Jones are unreliable in terms of injuries and are in and out of the side
None of the CBs (except Bailly and Rojo on some occasions) can consistently pass the ball well from deep positions
To put it simplistically, the problem is we have too many pretenders for the title of the new Vidic but we dont have a Ferdinand
Therefore in my mind its clear we need a player who is can be a permanent fixture - a calm head, experienced and has the ability to pass the ball reasonably well. Gimenez is not that player. Hes young and rash and his passing ability is sub par. Its very tempting to buy a promising player in a cut price deal. But why buy a player who we dont really need unless we sell one of our defenders.
ideally bonucci, alderweireld or alternatively van djik, or koulibaly are the way to go.
Are we really in for him? I tried to find out by going back 2 pages or so but it just got to vvd vs gimenez
No, this is the Van Dijk thread.
Let's don't go to of what we need to do in the next 10 years or something. We are messed right now so we should focus on solving the current problems asap before it gets worse.
First of all, van Dijk is 25 or 26 years old means he should be able to play for 6-7 years at his best if the signing turns to be successful.
Second, I prefer to solve the problems asap and then next season we can sign a new young defender like Gimenez and etc if necessary for improvement and future.
Finally a reasonable post.
Who is this nobody? Another chancer who got verified because he has a phone number and a picture
He often gets early team news and appeared on Premier League World and other shows. Ignore it if you think it's worthless.
A freelance journo who has also just tweeted something similar about Griezmann.
Last sentence was meant to have a question mark at the end, wasn't a statement
Jon Shrager is a journalist and honest one, he's worked with MUTV, covers mainly MMA. He doesn't post BS. If he has posted that it's true, he believes that it is.
If there is any possibility in Gimenez we should be all over him.
Sadly if you took out JOnes and put in Anderson it could read the same and the same ending I think. The Phil JOnes we signed from Blackburn was a far better player than the Phil JOnes we have now and yes a lot of that is to do with injuries, but he really hasnt progressed and really hasnt been good enough for a long time. Smalling actually progressed in LVGs last year....and has gone backwards again this.
I would put Rojo in ahead of both of them now and rather give opportunities as back up to Mensah and Tuanzabe. I dont believe in Blind at all as a centre back so I still think we do need to sign a new first choice centre back. Our defence has done well under Mourinho more to do with the system than the quality of our defence I believe
Totally agree with the pretenders that are all not good enough as a first choice partner for Bailly. Is Bailly really the Vidic rather than the Ferdinand though. Ferdinand was very quick, read the game well, mopped up and played the ball out of defence. Vidic was super strong, great in the air, not the quickest. I see as many similarities to Ferdinand as Vidic in Bailly personally, think people keep comparing him to Vidic just because he is so phsyical. I think he is different to both.
Giminez would be class. Hasn't he played in midfield a bit this season though or am I imagining that?
I agree. Jones hasnt got any better in the 6 years hes been here, and with his injury proneness he should be got shut off. I would even get shut of Smalling as well. Buy a WC defender and promote tuanzebe. With Bailly and Rojo, even Blind we would be well covered.
Same....and dont forget Mensah as well
Played about 7/8 games there because he couldn't get back into the CB spots. Mostly subbed onto that position.
He is more of a Vidic than a Ferdinand and has a tendency to lose his head. Like him, but not who should be paired with bailly.
I've been bumming the kid as a generational talent since before his move to Atlético but you are absolutely spot on there.
Last season has stunted his progress but I have faith he will crack on. What we do need though is a ball-playing CB improving our transition and composure at the back.
He ain't one.
This would be a great signing.
Great post mate
Think he'll be like Toby and develop when given proper first team football. He's a defender first and foremost which suits Jose. There is a chance for us to get him since he struggled with playing time at Atletico. Better than any other touted option out there really.
I didnt mean to reduce my argument to the notion that all our defenders are vidic reincarnate. No two players are exactly the same after all. My intention to compare our defenders to Vidic was motivated by the fact that we dont have a player who can really do the 'Ferdinand role' any justice at the highest level. I do agree with your assessment of Bailly though, he is different from both.
But i'd still like to reaffirm that even though Bailly can play the ball out he is no Hummels or Bonnucci when it comes to passing or building up an attack . Even when we have the ball i think its Rojo or Blind that take more responsibility for building from the back. In fact it would be unfair to expect that given that he isnt the finished article yet, hes still learning his trade and is only 23. Who knows , maybe Bailly will be as good as Rio in a few years. But he definitely isnt there yet and thats why we need to sign someone who can play that role right now, an experienced world class player, a calming influence.
But like i said before it also depends on what kind of team Jose is planning to build. If he wants primarily a counter attacking team then we dont necessarily need a Rio sort of CB.
Giminez is a good player and would suit mourinho. He's not a ball playing cb but our coach in mourinho...
Oh yeah, I'd rather get him than the ones we do get linked to.